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TOPIC: What on earth is going on....

What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 13:31 #1

  • seesaw50
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...in our hospitals?

Now saline bags have been found to have been tampered with at the Cumberland Infirmary.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 13:51 #2

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Lad at works dad was up there a couple of weeks back. Dozed off and someone had nicked his tablet from right in front of him.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 13:51 #3

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Someone isn't worth their salt.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 15:21 #4

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Dancingbear wrote:
Lad at works dad was up there a couple of weeks back. Dozed off and someone had nicked his tablet from right in front of him.

Serves him right,he should have swallowed it right away.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 18:07 #5

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ParcelPete wrote:
Dancingbear wrote:
Lad at works dad was up there a couple of weeks back. Dozed off and someone had nicked his tablet from right in front of him.

Serves him right,he should have swallowed it right away.

I was waiting for you to pass comment Pete ;). Seriously though they bought it for him and loaded up a few films for him to watch and he didn't have it long enough to get to see one.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 19:08 #6

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This is bad..;...

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/Eight-parking...9bd0-45213fd0e90c-ds


previous form:

Two hundred miles south of Preston, in Beaconsfield, Bucks, Rupert Williams, 46, and his wife Amanda, 43, also live in a sumptuous home, and they, too, have an Aston Martin (a classic silver DBS) and a top-of-the-range 4x4.
The Williamses run UK Parking Control Ltd, where the unscrupulous practices of some staff were exposed by a former supervisor this week. He says he was even told to instruct wardens to loiter around a hospital’s cancer unit because its patients were likely to have their minds on something other than feeding the car park ticket machine.
UK Parking Control says it has no knowledge of this and that it is certainly not company policy.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713705...y.html#ixzz4VO7RffoW
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Last Edit: 10 Jan 2017 19:22 by thesilentone.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 20:42 #7

  • Bumble
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Having recently experienced the frustration of parking at the infirmary, and myself and daughter having to leave some one in their final hours to feed a parking metre, I cannot really explain how much you don't need that stress, how tempted you are to say F it, and how that extra anxiety fries your brain.

Surely it isn't beyond the capability of those in charge to have a ticket machine for when you enter the hospital grounds and then a barrier with a ticket machine to pay on the way out however long you've been there, so you don't have to worry about feeding the metre when some one is desperately ill.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 21:11 #8

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Bumble wrote:
Having recently experienced the frustration of parking at the infirmary, and myself and daughter having to leave some one in their final hours to feed a parking metre, I cannot really explain how much you don't need that stress, how tempted you are to say F it, and how that extra anxiety fries your brain.

Surely it isn't beyond the capability of those in charge to have a ticket machine for when you enter the hospital grounds and then a barrier with a ticket machine to pay on the way out however long you've been there, so you don't have to worry about feeding the metre when some one is desperately ill.

Do they have the capability of paying via mobile app for the parking at the hospital Bumble? I remember popping down after a game to visit my Nan back in September and having to pay for just a half an hour visit but don't remember it saying there was an app. Get it in all council spaces down here in Liverpool, pretty hand really.
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What on earth is going on.... 10 Jan 2017 21:28 #9

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To be honest I don't know, I don't think so but when some one is seriously ill you really can't be bothered with phone apps. I know it would be different if it was something I did regularly but at the time I remember finding a parking metre and seeing a huge load of writing, that I didn't have the time or inclination to read. so I shoved a couple of pounds in. I did the same thing again after two hours and a kind warden then told me if I put £5 in it lasted 12 hours. I'm sure the info is all there to read, even at night but at those times you really can't take in the mundane, you just don't want to be away from the ward.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 09:26 #10

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Bumble wrote:
Having recently experienced the frustration of parking at the infirmary, and myself and daughter having to leave some one in their final hours to feed a parking metre, I cannot really explain how much you don't need that stress, how tempted you are to say F it, and how that extra anxiety fries your brain.

Surely it isn't beyond the capability of those in charge to have a ticket machine for when you enter the hospital grounds and then a barrier with a ticket machine to pay on the way out however long you've been there, so you don't have to worry about feeding the metre when some one is desperately ill.


I have never seen a more stupid parking system at such a place where hours can disappear waiting around, this is loaded in favour of UK Parking Control, who the hell allowed this to happen. Why is the local MP not taking this up and getting something done about it ? it is a disgrace and a shambles and once again a catastrophe of PFI engagement.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 11:34 #11

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Isn't it the case since they're issued by a private company (not police or council) you can just ignore the fine and any subsequent bluff letters?
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 11:52 #12

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orfc wrote:
Isn't it the case since they're issued by a private company (not police or council) you can just ignore the fine and any subsequent bluff letters?

They send the notice out to the registered owner of the vehicle as provided by DVLA when in effect its the person who was driving at the time who is the person responsible and who should be receiving the notice.

What you do is send the notice back to them asking if they can tell you who was driving your vehicle at the time of the event as it wasnt you and obviously they cant and in 99% of cases that's the last you.ll hear from them.

Another thing of interest is on the bottom of signs you will often see a notice that says something like "by passing this sign and using this parking facility means you agree to accept the above conditions" well thats actually crap and not currently enforceable under British law
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 12:24 #13

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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 15:22 #14

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At our place of work they have erected one of those barriers and a CCTV camera and can gain entry by smart card for employees and designated people. Visitors use the com button to get in touch with the guard who decides if they gain entry or not.
Could something similar at a larger organisation like the hospital be used?
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 15:35 #15

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Anything is better that what we have at Carlisle Hospital, it is a bloody mess.
Why a simple entry barrier like the lanes is not used, who knows.........
It almost looks like that the whole thing is designed to hood-wink drivers to maximise revenue.
I think there is starting to be a bit of an outcry from local residents as everyone is staring to park in the nearby streets.
Who let this happen !!!!!
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 15:45 #16

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NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
orfc wrote:
Isn't it the case since they're issued by a private company (not police or council) you can just ignore the fine and any subsequent bluff letters?

They send the notice out to the registered owner of the vehicle as provided by DVLA when in effect its the person who was driving at the time who is the person responsible and who should be receiving the notice.

What you do is send the notice back to them asking if they can tell you who was driving your vehicle at the time of the event as it wasnt you and obviously they cant and in 99% of cases that's the last you.ll hear from them.

Another thing of interest is on the bottom of signs you will often see a notice that says something like "by passing this sign and using this parking facility means you agree to accept the above conditions" well thats actually crap and not currently enforceable under British law

Barry - just been through something similar myself with a private company. Legal advice led me to believe that legal precedent has been recently set that the owner can no longer claim the "i wasn't driving and you can't prove who was" defence.

However, you're absolutely right that these private fines aren't enforceable under law and are more of an "invitation to pay" which will clearly be politely declined. They send a few bully boy emails, ramping costs up, threatening all sorts (Bailiffs, court, credit rating impact etc) then just crawl back under the rock they came from when you don't respond.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 16:16 #17

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I haven't paid for parking in about 5 years!
Had the odd "threat" but it's never gone further.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 16:22 #18

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Replying to the original post.....

The problem with Cumbria Hospitals is they were shafted by some very poor decisions on PFI builds...they now have absolutely no money to hire staff and run the places.
They have been systematically run into the ground by some of the most incompetent managers/councils/trust officials and higher ranked staff in the trust.
Giving them Foundation status just took even more of the scrutiny off their mismanagement and let it slip by unnoticed.
Couple that with the governments determination to squeeze every public service into oblivion and you've a recipe for disaster.

Generally where these incidents happen is exactly those kind of trusts, where there's a higher number of agency/temporary to cover big permanent staff shortfalls and because nobody knows them (they may only be there for 3 shifts say...) they can get up to all sorts...it's not always intentional it has to be said.

A lot of agency nurses are there simply because they're unable to get a job permanently, perhaps a higher proportion are agency simply because they're not very good.
See Mid Staffs among others for this exact thing under these same circumstances....
It's worrying that someone has the mind to tamper with Saline bags, it's something you'd have to go out of your way to do and by 'tamper' that means (generally) they've put another substance into the bag, not just broken the seal and put the bag back in the rack. :(
If you can't beat em.... shoot em.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 16:37 #19

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Can't blame the current Government for the mire we are in at Carlisle, maybe look back to Mr Blair and Martlew for this shambles. PFI is immune to Government cuts !!!!!

Carlisle is paying for two hospitals, and if the whole joint was not in such an unholy mess, we would have been taken over by the NE Trust long ago...
Last Edit: 11 Jan 2017 16:38 by thesilentone.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 17:54 #20

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I believe they are getting barriers for the car parking - probably when the new car park is built. The biggest problem they've had with the car parking is the lack of spaces due to a large number of folk parking for work other than at the Infirmary. This takes the biscuit... :>)
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 18:06 #21

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cousinscotty wrote:
I believe they are getting barriers for the car parking - probably when the new car park is built. The biggest problem they've had with the car parking is the lack of spaces due to a large number of folk parking for work other than at the Infirmary. This takes the biscuit... :>)

Cavvies
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 19:13 #22

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thesilentone wrote:
Can't blame the current Government for the mire we are in at Carlisle, maybe look back to Mr Blair and Martlew for this shambles. PFI is immune to Government cuts !!!!!

Carlisle is paying for two hospitals, and if the whole joint was not in such an unholy mess, we would have been taken over by the NE Trust long ago...


Absolutely.
Never said it was this government, PFI was Labour and Labour alone...willingly assisted by idiots in control of foundation trust budgets who signed off on them.
This government aren't helping by continuing to starve the NHS of funding, but I understand why in a way because there's no point in throwing money at more incompetence. Money is only good if it's spent well.
Northumberland trust were bright enough to buy out their PFI arrangements and consolidate them in another loan that is charged at a fraction of the PFI cost....
If you can't beat em.... shoot em.
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What on earth is going on.... 11 Jan 2017 20:13 #23

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As said Labour were to blame for setting up the PFI scheme.
However The Tories have been in government for six years and have done nothing to sort the PFI problem out apart from blaming Labour.
Running the country Should involve more than blaming someone else for the problems and doing FA to sort them out
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 10:28 #24

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Carlisle PFI contract is in a right old mess. I don't think it's a UK Company who is the main contractor, maybe the Yanks.........

So Flatcap, I suppose we could try and blame SP or JN, or the man the moon, however on this occasion, like it or not you know where the blame lies for the mess we are in.

However, as much as it is an unholy mess, it will have to be the Tories to clean it up, as usual !
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 14:50 #25

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As I said above. it should not be about allocating blame, it should be about sorting it out.
That's what a government is supposed to do.
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 17:12 #26

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Neither should anyone shirk responsibility !!

Every-time a political debate comes along the Labour Party start on the NHS and how safe it will be in their hands, and how the Tories will privatise it, and how under funded it is, and trolleys in corridors, and anything else they can find.

It is mainly orchestrated Political bu..s..t,, ask the hospitals why they aren't discharging patients until late in the day ? Those that don't require homecare ? Why don't the Junior Doctors come clean and admit it's all about money, and naff all to do with with patient care, if it was about patient care they wouldn't go on strike.
Ask about the almost complete breakdown of surgery diaries for outpatients, or maybe how the administration of prescriptions between hospitals, doctors surgery's and chemists is a disaster area which has cost millions more than expected.
The low morale and staff motivation is mainly to do with internal chaos due to bad managers who think the solution is to spend more, a shambles.

Soon the Socialists will waken up and realise that throwing money at the NHS is f...king it up, not helping !!

Most of the policies in place were under Mr Blairs reforms and Mr Browns incompetence, safe in Labours hands, nothing is safe in Labours hands, all Labour do is throw money around, bust the Country then get voted out !!
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 18:14 #27

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orfc wrote:
Isn't it the case since they're issued by a private company (not police or council) you can just ignore the fine and any subsequent bluff letters?

Yes that was my understanding... And was told this by a hospital employee
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 18:23 #28

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I wrote to the British Parking Association who are supposed to be the regulator, I suggested they should be ashamed to be associated with UK Parking Control, see the reply below, now wonder the whole thing is such a mess...

This is what UK Parking Control say on their website about the BPA:

Scheme Standards
When applying to join the scheme, applicants have to pass a stringent compliance audit and must sign a declaration that states that they will abide by the BPA’s Code of Practice for parking operators that manage car parks on private land. This compliance is ongoing and standards are continually being raised, thus AOS members are always being tested to ensure that they are operating to the highest standard.

UK Parking Control Ltd of Uxbridge is a member of the AOS and in providing all necessary information and documentation, has passed the stringent compliance tests that allow it membership of the scheme.
EMAIL RESPONSE

Thank you for your email.

We would like to express our sincere condolences to Mrs Harris’ family.

UK Parking Control Limited are a member of the British Parking Association (BPA) and our Approved Operator Scheme (AOS). By being a member of our association they agree to adhere to our Code of Practice.

As we are a membership association and not a regulatory body we can only address breaches of a point raised in our Code of Practice. If we receive evidence of a possible breach of a point raised in the Code of Practice we will carry out an investigation and request further information from the parking operator concerned. The operator will be required to deal with any issues raised during our investigation and to provide satisfactory evidence of this having been done.

A contract is entered into where a motorist enters and decides to use a private car park or private road (or section of private road). The terms and conditions displayed on the signage are then used by the parking operator to determine whether the motorist has breached these terms. The operator will issue a ticket on this basis (as a breach by the motorist).

We do not have the authority, as we are not a regulator, to become involved in individual disputes between the motorist and the car park operator or their agent.

From the information provided so far we cannot advise there to be a breach of a point raised in the Code of Practice. Therefore, in this instance we will not be looking into the matter further.

Our apologies we cannot assist you in this instance.

Yours Sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxxx
AOS Investigations Team
British Parking Association
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
Last Edit: 12 Jan 2017 18:25 by thesilentone.
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 18:24 #29

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thesilentone wrote:
Neither should anyone shirk responsibility !!

Every-time a political debate comes along the Labour Party start on the NHS and how safe it will be in their hands, and how the Tories will privatise it, and how under funded it is, and trolleys in corridors, and anything else they can find.

It is mainly orchestrated Political bu..s..t,, ask the hospitals why they aren't discharging patients until late in the day ? Those that don't require homecare ? Why don't the Junior Doctors come clean and admit it's all about money, and naff all to do with with patient care, if it was about patient care they wouldn't go on strike.
Ask about the almost complete breakdown of surgery diaries for outpatients, or maybe how the administration of prescriptions between hospitals, doctors surgery's and chemists is a disaster area which has cost millions more than expected.
The low morale and staff motivation is mainly to do with internal chaos due to bad managers who think the solution is to spend more, a shambles.

Soon the Socialists will waken up and realise that throwing money at the NHS is f...king it up, not helping !!

Most of the policies in place were under Mr Blairs reforms and Mr Browns incompetence, safe in Labours hands, nothing is safe in Labours hands, all Labour do is throw money around, bust the Country then get voted out !!


It boils my piss every time you hear Labour MP's crowing about how badly run the NHS is under the Tories.
It's a very selective memory the current crop have and some even outright blame the current and Con-Dem government for THEIR mistakes!
I've got several mates who all vote labour as a religion because they all work in the NHS, not one accepts that Labour have done more in recent years to destroy the NHS than any Tory led government has achieved in 50 years....the stock answer is "That was New Labour, not Labour"
As if there's a difference.
The hospitals are under immense pressure mostly because Labour renegotiated the GP contract and absolved them of any responsibility for 24hr cover for their area...that alone was a monumental [censored] up, I know a few GP's and none of them could believe the offer on the table, it was like Christmas come early.
Net result is you can't get a doctor from your GP's to look at you and prescribe something out of hours or even reassure it's not urgent so everyone goes to the only place left they can be seen....A&E....not really a surprise our hospitals then can't cope.
Some of the decisions made in the last 12-15 years in health are damn near criminal.
If you can't beat em.... shoot em.
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 18:40 #30

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thesilentone wrote:
Neither should anyone shirk responsibility !!

Every-time a political debate comes along the Labour Party start on the NHS and how safe it will be in their hands, and how the Tories will privatise it, and how under funded it is, and trolleys in corridors, and anything else they can find.

It is mainly orchestrated Political bu..s..t,, ask the hospitals why they aren't discharging patients until late in the day ? Those that don't require homecare ? Why don't the Junior Doctors come clean and admit it's all about money, and naff all to do with with patient care, if it was about patient care they wouldn't go on strike.
Ask about the almost complete breakdown of surgery diaries for outpatients, or maybe how the administration of prescriptions between hospitals, doctors surgery's and chemists is a disaster area which has cost millions more than expected.
The low morale and staff motivation is mainly to do with internal chaos due to bad managers who think the solution is to spend more, a shambles.

Soon the Socialists will waken up and realise that throwing money at the NHS is f...king it up, not helping !!

Most of the policies in place were under Mr Blairs reforms and Mr Browns incompetence, safe in Labours hands, nothing is safe in Labours hands, all Labour do is throw money around, bust the Country then get voted out !!

That's right in that it was Tony Blair's Labour Party in power when Carlisle Hospital involved PFI.
I finally agree with thesilentone on something in that PFI was short sighted and a costly mistake but are you aware it was first introduced by the Tories in 1992 and opposed by trade unions, SNP, Green Party and some elements of the Labour Party?
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 19:01 #31

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Considering Carlisle was the first PFI Hospital in the UK, and opened in 2000, what do you mean about the ' first introduced by the Tories ' ?
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 19:27 #32

  • HuntingHorn
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thesilentone wrote:
Considering Carlisle was the first PFI Hospital in the UK, and opened in 2000, what do you mean about the ' first introduced by the Tories ' ?


He means that Private Finance Initiative was a Tory policy first thought of by John Major's government.
They may have thought of the idea but even they weren't stupid enough to use it!
Those elements of the Labour Party you mention Walwyns.....Some of them were still around to implement PFI themselves, shame their scruples didn't last beyond Major's demise as PM....it was clearly a great idea when Tony suggested it. :lol:
If you can't beat em.... shoot em.
Last Edit: 12 Jan 2017 19:36 by HuntingHorn.
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 20:25 #33

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PFI's were indeed the idea of John Major's Tory government and at the time were widely criticised by Labour. The tories began using the scheme but, after they proved controversial, ditched them. Labour re-introduced them soon after gaining power and by the mid-90's they were everywhere. Today's problems are a result of these contracts signed in the early 90's. Just goes to show how pathetic politics can be, criticise the other party's policies then as soon as you gain power adopt them.
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 21:37 #34

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franksidebottom wrote:
PFI's were indeed the idea of John Major's Tory government and at the time were widely criticised by Labour. The tories began using the scheme but, after they proved controversial, ditched them. Labour re-introduced them soon after gaining power and by the mid-90's they were everywhere. Today's problems are a result of these contracts signed in the early 90's. Just goes to show how pathetic politics can be, criticise the other party's policies then as soon as you gain power adopt them.

Pretty difficult when Labour didn't get into power until 1997.
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What on earth is going on.... 12 Jan 2017 22:26 #35

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That's the trouble with politicians - they will never admit when they are wrong.

There are one or two at work who are similar. Always blaming others when things go wrong and then doing nothing to put it right.

PFi's don't work. I wish some government would have the balls to get rid of them.
Last Edit: 12 Jan 2017 22:30 by Flatcap.
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What on earth is going on.... 13 Jan 2017 10:21 #36

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Some are putting it right, as far as I am aware Hexham was a PFI, and is now part of the NE Trust who bought out the PFI. It looks like Carlisle is such a mash-up, no one wants to touch it with a barge-pole.

On top of that, it appears that Government has ' profound worries ' about patient care in North Cumbria, so something must change.
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