Monday, 03 January 2022
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  1K Visits
Hello folks,

The next CUSG Meeting is scheduled for next Monday (10th Jan).

If you have any Questions you would like raised via the Meeting, you are advised to email them in to the relevant Group (As the minutes from a recent Meeting advised). If a Group has no direct point of contact then the central CUSG Email will make sure they get to the relevant Group.

By all means post on here the Question’s you’re sending in, for discussion etc, but please note we won’t be sending them in for you!

We still operate a Thread for these Meetings, as people like to discuss the information that comes out from them.

Thanks,

Admin.
2 weeks ago
Cusg group as a whole.

is it possible to add to the constitution that all group members contact their members XX days prior to ANY cusg meeting normal or otherwise and can something saying can minutes be published within one week.
1 week ago
Are the clubs owners ideally looking for investment or a full takeover?

I know the club/trust have said you won't advertise the club:

But I imagine they'd need to know details about the loan repayment. Has a loan repayment plan been agreed and is this plan willing to be given to any serious interested party?

Have the club made any repayments to the loan as of yet, has anything changed to this recently?

As the club announced there’s going to be no takeover by EWM/Purepay or any further money why then is John Jackson still on the holdings board. What purpose does he now bring?

How much money is the club up for sale for? It might be a silly question but surely knowing how much is required initially to remove the current owners might be a start?
1 week ago
Questions for trust - still hoping to go to their surgery Saturday but depends what time I get there.

Hi

I've included cusg - for info I no longer have access to the @dace.aol address.

Why did the trust feel the need, in the 1st deal with EWM to dilute shares without speaking to members.

It's stated that the trust felt a deal with EWM wouldn't happen after December 2019, why didn't you let members know then?

Why didn't the trust notify their members of an emergency cusg meeting?

When the club initially took out the EWM loan did you have any say at all - what was your reaction?

Is the trust speaking to any interested parties?

A new group has been set up as these supporters feel they have no voice, what's your opinion of this?

The trust previously stated via Billy Atkinson they weren't the organisation to raise funds. Who are the organisations to raise funds? Has this opinion changed?

The trust stated in an article they couldn't please everyone- who are the trust pleasing?

Has there been any charges to the working relationships with the club?

Where does the trust see the club at the end of the season and the aims for next?

Thanks

One more sorry!

A member of cusg has stated the trust haven’t revealed the full story re EWM - what is meant by this?
1 week ago
1 week ago
Questions for trust - still hoping to go to their surgery Saturday but depends what time I get there.


What time does it start I’ll maybe join you I can be yer muscle if it kicks off mate :p
1 week ago
Questions for trust - still hoping to go to their surgery Saturday but depends what time I get there.


What time does it start I’ll maybe join you I can be yer muscle if it kicks off mate :p


1.30 - 2.30

I won’t be there to at least 2 but hope to go and see them.

I thought violence wasn’t your thing :p
1 week ago
If you’ve got questions you should go.

To be fair to the trust, they do hold these “surgeries” every home game.

Whether they answer any questions or take advice is another thing.
1 week ago
Questions for trust - still hoping to go to their surgery Saturday but depends what time I get there.


What time does it start I’ll maybe join you I can be yer muscle if it kicks off mate :p


1.30 - 2.30

I won’t be there to at least 2 but hope to go and see them.

I thought violence wasn’t your thing :p


Very correct I was just jesting :D but I could well pop in.

First home game tomorrow for me in a long time so I’ll get liquered up (2 half’s of stout) in the rugby club then stagger round after that hope the back lane is decent these days.

Mind you have to run the gauntlet of the A9 in the morning hope the snows gone :(
1 week ago
Questions for trust - still hoping to go to their surgery Saturday but depends what time I get there.


What time does it start I’ll maybe join you I can be yer muscle if it kicks off mate :p


1.30 - 2.30

I won’t be there to at least 2 but hope to go and see them.

I thought violence wasn’t your thing :p


Very correct I was just jesting :D but I could well pop in.

First home game tomorrow for me in a long time so I’ll get liquered up (2 half’s of stout) in the rugby club then stagger round after that hope the back lane is decent these days.

Mind you have to run the gauntlet of the A9 in the morning hope the snows gone :(


Enjoy.

Yes - hope the snow clears.
1 week ago
Assume the answers in the latest CUOSC Brief were to these Q’s Mullen?

Quite petty they don’t attribute them to anyone mind!
1 week ago
Assume the answers in the latest CUOSC Brief were to these Q’s Mullen?

Quite petty they don’t attribute them to anyone mind!


Yep!

I take it there’ll now allow anonymous questions.
1 week ago
Or maybe they are responding to a private question publicly without disclosing who its from in case the person didn't give permission for their details to be made public so it avoids any grief. Probably a wise move
1 week ago
"We currently have just over 50% of the first-team squad vaccinated, which is typical of EFL averages."

Shameful.

Looks like the stereotype of footballers not being very intelligent is certainly true.
3 days ago
Well done to everyone that attends, you’re doing such a marvellous job.

A big well done, also, to the two signatories that are no longer attend. Excellent! - must be too much hassle to change the names, it’s also a security issue but never mind I’m sure it’s a well thought out decision.
3 days ago
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm Mullen?!

:p
3 days ago
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm Mullen?!

:p


Never ;) - all that go should be given medals.

I’m sure in one meeting Matt/mouldy offered advice re the Warwick platform? After 2 years seems a long time to be at the quote stage.

There’s two people querying on Twitter re there being no fans Q&As. Despite some saying they were a waste of time it was popular amongst a lot of supporters and gave a platform. The mods from here done a good job and it’s a shame no other group member saw this and took on it, speaks volumes though.

I offered, heard nothing apart from groups are happy to take questions themselves as per the cusg policy - fair enough.
Individual shareholders are open to consider all offers whether investment or full takeover. CUOSC favours a change of control from a full takeover.

... erm no... someone should tell Jenkins that investment isn't an option! The guy is 83 years old and his family don't want the club so a takeover is only way. Why can't he see that?
3 days ago
No reply

Never really answered the question re John Jackson, answers in a way but not why he is still here with the change of circumstances.

Same with how much money is required to take over.

Hi
See below in yellow for answers to the questions. In green is extra detail specifically reflecting the current position since the question was last answered.
Nigel





Are the clubs owners ideally looking for investment or a full takeover?
INDIVIDUAL SHAREHOLDERS ARE OPEN TO CONSIDER ALL OFFERS RANGING FROM INVESTMENT TO A FULL TAKEOVER.

CUOSC FAVOURS A CHANGE OF CONTROL (COMING FROM A FULL OR MAJORITY SHARE TAKEOVER).

I know the club/trust have said you won't advertise the club. But I imagine they'd need to know details about the loan repayment.

Has a loan repayment plan been agreed and is this plan willing https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2021/december/club-holdings-board-statement/ to be given to any serious interested party?
NO CHANGE SINCE HOLDINGS ANNOUNCEMENT https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2021/december/club-holdings-board-statement/
MORE DETAIL WILL BE GIVEN IN MY BRIEFING FOR THE CUSG MEETING WHICH IS PUBLIC TODAY

Have the club made any repayments to the loan as of yet, has anything changed to this recently?
NO CHANGE SINCE CEO UPDATE https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2021/december/chief-exec-part-three/
More detail will be given in my briefing for the CUSG meeting which is public today

As the club announced there’s going to be no takeover by EWM/Purepay or any further money why then is John Jackson still on the holdings board. What purpose does he now bring?

THE ROLE WAS FULLY EXPLAINED IN A REPLY TO Q4 IN JULY 2021 https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/siteassets/documents/cusg-qs---mon-19th-july-2021.pdf

“The debt funding and “taking the club on fully” ie share ownership and “control” are separate. Purepay’s role with the club is as the organisation acting as a commercial funder providing secured debt facilities. There have been no discussions about PPL having any interest in “taking on the club”

“He is not involved in operational matters or football. His involvement is remote, with a very light touch. His role is focused mainly on simply high-level monitoring of our finances and, if required, to consider material contracts we enter into. He is the link with Purepay on matters impacting the commercial funding agreement, and things of direct impact on Purepay, when required. This allows Purepay to more easily understand the club and assess issues under the commercial funding agreement, if called upon.”

JOHN JACKSON WAS A HOLDINGS BOARD DIRECTOR BEFORE ANY TAKEOVER TALK STARTED. THE COMMERCIAL FUNDING AGREEMENT WITH PUREPAY STILL EXISTS UNCHANGED AND IS OPERATION REGARDLESS OF THE END OF SEPARATE TAKEOVER TALKS. THE OBLIGATIONS OF 1921 AND PUREPAY IN RESPECT OF THE CFA REMAIN AND CONTINUE. OUR DEBT TO PUREPAY REMAINS AND CONTINUES.

WHILE WE DO NOT ENVISAGE ANY FURTHER ADVANCES UNDER THE CFA, CLEARLY PUREPAY STILL HAS A VERY SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL INTEREST IN 1921 AS THE LARGEST DEBT PROVIDER AND SECURED CREDITOR. IN THAT REGARD THERE IS NO CHANGE WITH THE ENDING OF TAKEOVER TALKS AND THEREFORE NO CHANGE IN HIS ROLE AND THEREFORE HE STILL REMAINS A DIRECTOR ON THE HOLDINGS BOARD AFTER THE END OF THOSE TAKEOVER TALKS.

How much money is the club up for sale for? It might be a silly question but surely knowing how much is required initially to remove the current owners might be a start?

DO YOU MEAN THE COST OF THE SHARES? THE HOLDINGS BOARD STATEMENT CONFIRMED “MAJORITY OF THE EXISTING SHAREHOLDERS PROPOSED TO TRANSFER THEIR SHARES (AT NO COST)”.
THE COST OF THE SHARES ARE THEREFORE IMMATERIAL TO A PURCHASE.

I HAVE EXPLAINED THE COST OF PURCHASING THE CLUB BEFORE (NOVEMBER 2019) AND THE CORE FINANCIAL ISSUES HAVE NOT MATERIALLY CHANGED. SINCE THEN, CLUB DEBT IS UNCHANGED EXCEPT FOR INTEREST, BUT THE CASH BALANCE HAS IMPROVED VERY SIGNIFICANTLY AND THE OTHER CREDITORS REDUCED WHILE REALISED PROFITS HAVE ALSO INCREASED NET ASSETS. THE UNREALISED BANK OF POSSIBLE FUTURE TRANSFER FEE RECEIPTS HAS GROWN TOO. SO TODAY OVERALL OUR FINANCES ARE IMPROVED AND SIMPLIFIED BUT THE KEY DEBT ISSUE REMAINS.

IT WAS COVERED IN Q11 OF THE NOVEMBER 2019 AND IS REPEATED AGAIN BELOW FOR REFERENCE.

https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/siteassets/documents/cusg-monthly-questions-november-2019.pdf

“they need to have as a minimum:

1 - Sustainable source of money and …

2 - The required amount of money needed to:
a. run the club day-to-day covering cash its needs based on their ‘new plan.’ THIS IS ENTIRELY DOWN TO A NEW OWNER SO I CANNOT SAY HOW MUCH
b. fund a competitive football budget – how much that is will be different to different people – THIS IS ENTIRELY DOWN TO A NEW OWNER SO I CANNOT SAY HOW MUCH
c. change, develop and improve the club in the short and medium term – linked to their ‘new plan. THIS IS ENTIRELY DOWN TO A NEW OWNER SO I CANNOT SAY HOW MUCH
d. invest in the club for the long term future – again depends on their ‘new plan.’ THIS IS ENTIRELY DOWN TO A NEW OWNER SO I CANNOT SAY HOW MUCH
e. deal with any overhang issues at the start – this depends on what is negotiated between buyer and seller. THESE ARE NOT MATERIAL AS CONSIDERABLE EFFORT HAS GONE INTO TIDYING THE COMPANY TO FACILIATE AN EASY INVESTMENT/TAKEOVER
f. cover emergency ‘rainy day’ needs – ‘rainy day’ money is important but not sufficient on its own – again depends on the risk in their ‘new plan.’ THIS IS ENTIRELY DOWN TO A NEW OWNER SO I CANNOT SAY HOW MUCH
g. buy the shares / assets of the club / THE INDIVIDUAL SHAREHOLDERS WERE PREPARED TO GIFT THESE AWAY IN THE LATEST TALKS
h. clear or re-finance the ‘overhang’ legacy debts – depends on negotiation. A NEW OWNER WOULD NEED TO REFINANCE THE EXISTING DEBTS OR PAY CASH TO SETTLE THEM ON TAKING OVER. THE AMOUNT REQUIRED DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH THE CREDITORS WANT BACK. THIS IS ENTIRELY DOWN TO EACH CREDITOR.

THE PRESUMPTION FROM A BUYER SHOULD BE THE FULL DEBT (UNLESS A DEAL IS DONE BEFORE), WHICH MEANS REPAYING/REFINANCING ALL THE CURRENT DEBT WHICH IS AROUND £3M. DEBT REPAYMENT DOES NOT GO INTO THE CLUB OR ITS SHAREHOLDERS OR BENEFIT THE CLUB IN FUTURE, IT COVERS THE LOSSES IN THE PAST.

SETTLEMENT WOULD REMOVE THE GUARANTEES OF THE EXISTING SHAREHOLDERS (WITHOUT THESE BEING RELEASED THEY WOULD NOT TRANSFER THEIR SHARES - NO GUARANTOR WOULD STEP ASIDE FROM THE CLUB BUT STILL BE LIABLE FOR ITS DEBTS ).

IF THE CLUB DEBT IS REDUCED BY THE TIME AN INTERESTED PARTY TOOK OVER, (DUE TO REPAYMENT OR COMPROMISE), THE NEW OWNER WOULD OBVIOUSLY NEED LESS CASH TO COME IN.

LOOKING FORWARD, HYPOTHETICALLY, IF THE CLUB WAS ABLE TO FIND A WAY TO DISCHARGE AND SETTLE ITS DEBT, TO THEN :
BE DEBT FREE
HAVE BRUNTON PARK UNENCUMBERED AGAIN - NO LONGER BEING SECURITY FOR A DEBT (RELEASING THE GUARNATEES TOO)
STILL CONTINUE TO OPERATE DAY-TO-DAY AS IT DOES NOW (ON A SELF SUFFICENT CASH BASIS NEEDING NO NEW FUNDING TO TRADE)
PERHAPS GAIN ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL BENEFITS REALISED FROM THE FAN LED REVIEW
STILL RETAIN A BANK OF FURTHER UNREALISED POSSIBLE FUTURE TRANSFER FEE RECEIPTS (AFTER THE DEBT IS SETTLED)
SAVE ONGOING INTEREST FUNDING COSTS

THE FINANCIAL MODEL OF THE CLUB COULD BE TOTALLY TRANSFORMED, ALONG WITH THE FUNDING REQUIRED TO COME IN AND THE FUNDING TO RUN THE CLUB AFTER (BEFORE ANY DISCRETIONARY INVESTMENT).

THE CLUB’S VIABILITY, ITS ATTRACTIVENESS AND VALUE WOULD CHANGE AS RESULT (THAT IS JUST THE PURE FINANCIAL GAINS, NOT FROM FOOTBALL OR OUR BUSINESS ACTIVITIES).


The EFL will test 1&2 and their consistency and sufficiency with the ‘new plan.’

3 - A credible ‘new plan’ for the trading of the club that is realistic, achievable and sustainable, and funded by 1&2. A ‘new plan’ that based on growing income and cutting cost may look like needing less money, but is it credible? And what if that plan fails? You may need more ‘rainy day’ money and that could go quickly, then what? Hence the need for sustainability in the source of funding.

4 - The new investor needs 1,2 & 3 for both: (a) now, when the deal is done and (b) far more importantly, for the future (in line with EFL regulations**.

…. So, depending on what a new investors ‘new plan’ is, will therefore determine the amount of money they need to bring at the start.

The success of their ‘new plan’ will also impact on what is required later – so that is why I can’t put a figure on what a new investor needs to bring. Some of that depends on what they inherit.

** NEW SINCE 2019, FOLLOWING THE FAN LED REVIEW THE FUNDING PERIOD IS LIKELY TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY EXTENDED AND THE FUNDING COMMITMENT TOUGHED UP**

BRINGING THINGS UP TO DATE, IT HAS BEEN EXPLAINED MANY TIMES, TO OPERATE AT THE CURRENT LEVEL OF FOOTBALL BUDGET IN L2, WITH THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE, STAFF MODEL AND OPERATIONS, MAKING NO INVESTMENT AND NO DEBT REPAYMENTS, THE CLUB NEEDS £500K OF NEW CASH EACH YEAR TO SIMPLY EXIST. THIS NEEDS FINANCING BY ANYONE NEW IN LINE WITH THE EFL RULES. THE CLUB HAS CIRCA £3M OF DEBT INCLUDING TO PUREPAY WHICH A NEW OWNERS NEEDS TO DEAL WITH ON TOP. THAT IS ASSUMING NO PAYMENT BUY SHARES (AS WAS THE CASE IN THE RECENT TALKS) OR SPEND A SINGLE PENNY ON IMPROVING THE CLUB.

THE FINANCES AND POSITION OF THE CLUB ARE VERY VERY SIMPLE TO DEAL WITH FOR ANYONE WITH THE INTENT TO TAKE CONTROL AND THE RESOURCES TO TAKEOVER.
3 days ago
Never got why people think writing in capitals thinks it stands out more , it's actually does quite the opposite as the brain reads the shapes , writing it capitals slows down the reading and makes it practically impossible to skim read.
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