FAO Mr Lapping

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07 Aug 2019 11:11 #51 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic FAO Mr Lapping
These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does.

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07 Aug 2019 11:25 - 07 Aug 2019 11:33 #52 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Mullen103 wrote: It's not a bad question in theory Kessler.

However when an employee takes the job, they know/accept the terms of their employment.

Its up to the employer to entice the employee to work harder to improve production/profits. More often than not its money that speaks. I've been in two jobs, same type of work, where one paid me a straight 18k a year with no bonuses/incentives and another 25k with bonuses/incentives. Guess which one I soon lost enthusiasm for and just went through the motions and which one I bust a gut for.


Yeah but when Laffy says he supports profit sharing I'd like to know what he means by "sharing". Does everyone actually get a fair/equal share of the profits, or does he get a bigger share of the profits than everyone else?
Last edit: 07 Aug 2019 11:33 by Kessler.

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07 Aug 2019 11:33 #53 by heilkmoon
Replied by heilkmoon on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:
Yeah but when Laffy says he supports profit sharing I'd like to know what he means by "sharing". Does every employee gets a similar share of the profits, or does he get a bigger share than anyone else? If it's the second then I really don't see how that counts as sharing. If everyone at the company has worked hard to make it a success, why should some people get a bigger share at the expense of others getting less? That doesn't seem a very fair way of sharing.


Profit sharing means a share of the profits, not equal shares. The most famous example of a profit sharing business in the UK is John Lewis, where the bonus paid is a percentage of your salary.

What you seem to be advocating is a form of communism that even the communists couldn't manage to pull off.
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07 Aug 2019 11:55 #54 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Best profit sharing scheme I have encountered was set up when there was a demand for welders, sheet metal workers etc to stop them leaving when the competition put up hourly rates.

It worked by allocating a % of the gross profit each year to the scheme (this is usually tax free for the Company).

Every worker was allocated shares in the scheme, by a calculation that took into consideration his/her annual income x years of service, loaded in favour of the years of service. The Company wanted to reward loyalty as well as ability.

It was then paid in two tranches, one in June and one in Dec. The idea behind this being, one paid for the summer holidays, the other paid for the costs over Christmas. Each year the amounts were announced in Dec (along with the second half of the previous years payment). You only received your share if you were in the employment of the Company at the time of the payment. It worked very well, with everybody focused on the profitability of the Company.

It also meant the long-serving lower paid, were getting as much (in many cases more) than those on much higher incomes.

The only down side was, occasionally the Company did not make a profit. (twice in 20 years) so not to bad.

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07 Aug 2019 11:55 #55 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic FAO Mr Lapping
I will try and post a video of a dam being opened in the vicinity-it’s inclement to say the least in Pune.

Kessler-good to see 30pc of company in employee hands

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07 Aug 2019 12:03 #56 by Mush
Replied by Mush on topic FAO Mr Lapping
This has all gone a bit too serious for my liking, Ibo over to you..

What's the latest on the Garmin hat?
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07 Aug 2019 12:17 - 07 Aug 2019 12:20 #57 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Laffy wrote: Kessler-good to see 30pc of company in employee hands


So how much money do you make compared to the average employee who works a similar amount of hours?


www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/04...orkers-annual-salary

Do you think any of those CEO's actually worked as hard in a few days as other employees do in an entire year?
Last edit: 07 Aug 2019 12:20 by Kessler.

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07 Aug 2019 12:30 #58 by Vogel
Replied by Vogel on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Think you’re being a bit ridiculous here Kessler.
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07 Aug 2019 14:06 #59 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic FAO Mr Lapping
I wonder how many employees would work 12 hour days, put their home up as security or actually want to share in their prosperity by handing it to their workers.

I think you are confusing CEOs of FTSE companies where the salaries are off the scale with reality and those other 99.9pc of CEOs who run their own businesses.

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07 Aug 2019 14:43 #60 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic FAO Mr Lapping
You’ll be asking for stewards to get a equal cut of the clubs football fortune money next.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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07 Aug 2019 15:29 #61 by Prawncrackhead
Replied by Prawncrackhead on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Ibo knows how to stir it up! Somehow manages to get grown men to play make believe as well- nice work!

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07 Aug 2019 16:24 #62 by pie
Replied by pie on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: Kessler-good to see 30pc of company in employee hands


So how much money do you make compared to the average employee who works a similar amount of hours?


www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/04...orkers-annual-salary

Do you think any of those CEO's actually worked as hard in a few days as other employees do in an entire year?


There's some good cheap one way flights available to Cuba if you fancy a trip?

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07 Aug 2019 16:33 #63 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Dancingbear wrote: You’ll be asking for stewards to get a equal cut of the clubs football fortune money next.


Literally Kes you are slagging off a bonus scheme that anyone in their right mind would not object to if you were working for the said company.

I cannot imagine the cleaner gan radge at Christmas when given said shares or a bonus.

Edward Stobart once gave us all a £150 bonus one Christmas and I was over the moon and thanked him personally.

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07 Aug 2019 17:04 #64 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Kes is totally out of touch and should change his morning newspaper.Most successful private companies have bonus and share schemes-and lest we not forget also provide employment.In the age of full employment,share incentives are even more relevant in attracting and retaining clever people.All the businesses I have been involved in overpay staff which means any disputes tend to be over competence and aspiration rather than cash

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07 Aug 2019 17:40 #65 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Laffy wrote: Kes is totally out of touch and should change her morning newspaper.Most successful private companies have bonus and share schemes-and lest we not forget also provide employment.In the age of full employment,share incentives are even more relevant in attracting and retaining clever people.All the businesses I have been involved in overpay staff which means any disputes tend to be over competence and aspiration rather than cash


Amended that for you as Kessler is a young lass :)

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07 Aug 2019 20:44 #66 by Mush
Replied by Mush on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Mush wrote: This has all gone a bit too serious for my liking, Ibo over to you..

What's the latest on the Garmin hat?


Ibo please help!!

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07 Aug 2019 20:53 #67 by Ibogaine
Replied by Ibogaine on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Washing my hands of this one mush-o...

Would’ve thought his time as a down and out would’ve changed his political stance, but if anything it seems to have moved him slightly to the right of Norman Tebbit

Messageboarder of the Year 2016
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07 Aug 2019 22:38 - 07 Aug 2019 22:39 #68 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic FAO Mr Lapping
"It seems to have moved him slightly to the right of Norman Tebbit"......ha ha ha ha ha

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

Last edit: 07 Aug 2019 22:39 by seesaw50.
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07 Aug 2019 22:57 #69 by Mush
Replied by Mush on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Ibogaine wrote: Washing my hands of this one mush-o...

Would’ve thought his time as a down and out would’ve changed his political stance, but if anything it seems to have moved him slightly to the right of Norman Tebbit


:-(

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08 Aug 2019 07:35 #70 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Dancingbear wrote: You’ll be asking for stewards to get a equal cut of the clubs football fortune money next.



Don't you think we deserve a raise having to work for Carlisle United?

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08 Aug 2019 09:57 #71 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic FAO Mr Lapping
No...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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08 Aug 2019 10:42 #72 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: You’ll be asking for stewards to get a equal cut of the clubs football fortune money next.



Don't you think we deserve a raise having to work for Carlisle United?


Ive no idea what the terms and conditions are but think everyone should get a real living wage.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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08 Aug 2019 11:15 #73 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic FAO Mr Lapping
[censored] up and you should be made to watch videos of Cole Stockton on loop for 24 hours. Harsh but fair

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08 Aug 2019 11:20 #74 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Markovitch wrote: Harsh but fair


No just harsh.

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08 Aug 2019 11:30 #75 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic FAO Mr Lapping
That's a fair response

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08 Aug 2019 11:47 #76 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Waltero wrote: That's a fair response


Not too harsh though?

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08 Aug 2019 19:54 #77 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Tell you what Kessler-Why don’t you come out to India and see real inequality.Not pay differentials-more like living under a plastic sheet against having a roof over your head in monsoon conditions.

I’ve learned a lot this week.Poverty over here is simply appalling and simply giving people money isn’t the answer.These people need infrastructure, jobs, a reason to live-I have seen so many young children as young as 5 living in Somme like conditions with nothing to live for other than exist-begging at traffic lights for food and money.

Government and businesses need to create an environment to provide employment, housing and hope.Punishing businesses with high taxes and telling them how to behave won’t work.

Secondly, global warming, plastics, all that crap we are fed, isn’t going to get sorted in Europe.We are wasting our time.Delhi is literally dark at midday due to smog and the streets run with total filth.

This has been a very thought provoking trip for me-life changing in many respects.If you think life is so unfair in the UK, you need to see India for yourself.Meanwhile,whilst you pick away at me for being in India without bringing the entire workforce, we are hopefully going to form a new Indian JV to exploit our technology and yes, make profits, but in doing so, provide many locals with decent jobs and offer them a way out of abject poverty.
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09 Aug 2019 00:47 - 09 Aug 2019 01:04 #78 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Laffy wrote: I’ve learned a lot this week.


Yeah, it can be a shock to the system to see it in person. You've probably seen similar in the poverty appeal adverts but you'll have found that when you see it in person it feels more real.

Laffy wrote: Government and businesses need to create an environment to provide employment, housing and hope.Punishing businesses with high taxes and telling them how to behave won’t work.


And where does the government get that money from to create such an environment if businesses don't pay their fair share of tax? Don't think of tax as a punishment, think of it as your contribution to help make society better for everyone.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 01:04 by Kessler.

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09 Aug 2019 01:15 - 09 Aug 2019 01:16 #79 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: You’ll be asking for stewards to get a equal cut of the clubs football fortune money next.



Don't you think we deserve a raise having to work for Carlisle United?


Ironically this quote goes against everything you say - why should they pay you more than you are worth as that would make you a 'fat cat' creaming from any profit the club could make by over paying you.

At least you get paid and here you are moaning about it - be careful about biting the hand that feeds would be my best advice to you.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 01:16 by munchymagic.

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09 Aug 2019 03:10 - 09 Aug 2019 03:19 #80 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

munchymagic wrote: Ironically this quote goes against everything you say - why should they pay you more than you are worth as that would make you a 'fat cat' creaming from any profit the club could make by over paying you.


It was a tongue in cheek remark that has clearly gone right over your head.

munchymagic wrote: be careful about biting the hand that feeds would be my best advice to you.


Sorry I don't agree with that. I don't like how the club is being run and I think it deserves to be criticized, whether or not I get an income from them. If more fans actually took a stand against the BOD through protests and a boycott rather than just moaning for a bit before going and paying their ticket every week the club might not be in the position it is now.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 03:19 by Kessler.

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09 Aug 2019 04:25 #81 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Ironically this quote goes against everything you say - why should they pay you more than you are worth as that would make you a 'fat cat' creaming from any profit the club could make by over paying you.


It was a tongue in cheek remark that has clearly gone right over your head.

munchymagic wrote: be careful about biting the hand that feeds would be my best advice to you.


Sorry I don't agree with that. I don't like how the club is being run and I think it deserves to be criticized, whether or not I get an income from them. If more fans actually took a stand against the BOD through protests and a boycott rather than just moaning for a bit before going and paying their ticket every week the club might not be in the position it is now.


No offence meant Kes but if you were my employee then I would be demanding to know why you were slagging off my business on social media.

These people you criticise who buy a ticket every week pay towards your very own wage.

They are called fans of Carlisle United, the club that you follow and work for.

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09 Aug 2019 05:03 #82 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Exactly

Another thing I have learned here is that those lucky to have an education in India are taught they can be successful with hard work OF THEIR OWN.

If you take Kessler’s view, it’s about letting someone else take risks, borrow against the roof over your head, then hand it out to those who didn’t try at school or just wait around for a handout in the name of ‘fairness’-meanwhile slagging off those who employ him/her for not handing out the profits instead of investing it in the company.

The pub at Slaley was subject to this programme a few years ago-multiple ownership by the villagers.Result?Utter chaos and guess what?They turned full circle and got someone in to run it!!

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09 Aug 2019 05:17 #83 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

munchymagic wrote: No offence meant Kes but if you were my employee then I would be demanding to know why you were slagging off my business on social media.


And you'd promptly get told to mind your own business.

I think there is a difference between slagging off, and giving constructive criticism. Any business should welcome constructive criticism from everyone including staff. As a business you want to make money. If people are unhappy with you then they are less likely to give you their custom, so it's in your interests to listen to what complaints people have and see if there's anything you can improve on or do better, and hopefully win more customers.

munchymagic wrote: They are called fans of Carlisle United, the club that you follow and work for.


I'm a fan too. Am I not allowed to speak out and criticize when I feel that the people running the club are driving it into the ground? Because that's what you seem to be saying.

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09 Aug 2019 09:56 #84 by BlueBanana
Replied by BlueBanana on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Kessler, i think you'll find most company's have within the contract something about social media. The company i work for certainly has. In fact it is misconduct to discuss anything to do with company or company policy on social media (which is why i Havnt named company). I know of one person that was relieved of his duties due to this policy. So be careful.
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09 Aug 2019 10:45 - 09 Aug 2019 11:04 #85 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Social media is a great thing, however it depends what you use it for. I am aware of two truck drivers who continually slagged off the premises of their employers customers when collecting/delivering. Both were sacked.......

Certain media must also make the Police's job much easier.

I think all social media should be used to condemn striking Unions, and most agree with me..........
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 11:04 by thesilentone.
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09 Aug 2019 10:48 #86 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

thesilentone wrote: Social media is a great thing, however it depends what you use it for. I am aware of two truck drivers who continually slagged off the premises of their employers customers when collecting/delivering. Both were sacked.......

Certain media must also make the Police's job much easier.

I think all social media should used to condemn striking Unions, and most agree with me..........


Were they actually slagging off the employer (just moaning without saying anything constructive) or were they giving constructive criticism about how the employer could do better and maybe win more customers?

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09 Aug 2019 10:53 #87 by BlueBanana
Replied by BlueBanana on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Kessler, it really makes no difference (depending on contract), if you criticise company or companies customers they can & will go down a disaplinary route. If you enjoy being a steward at BP, i would be careful how you constructively criticise the owners & the club in general. Just my advice

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09 Aug 2019 14:04 - 09 Aug 2019 14:05 #88 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Common place in every contract that I have ever had as well - normally worded that you will possibly face disciplinary action if you bring the company into disrepute or something along those lines.

If the company want rid of you anyhow then you are playing into their hands, I also know people sacked from their jobs for being over critical of their employers on Facebook, one daft sod put on there that he had pulled the pin from the limiter on his truck and so had his pal and they were racing each other down the motorway.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 14:05 by munchymagic.

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09 Aug 2019 14:13 #89 by Mush
Replied by Mush on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Are Garmin hats made in India?

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09 Aug 2019 14:48 #90 by pie
Replied by pie on topic FAO Mr Lapping

BlueBanana wrote: Kessler, it really makes no difference (depending on contract), if you criticise company or companies customers they can & will go down a disaplinary route. If you enjoy being a steward at BP, i would be careful how you constructively criticise the owners & the club in general. Just my advice


Are the stewards employed by the club or by a "RentADummy.com" who then have a contract with the club?

If the latter, the club would likely still be able to say we don't want Kessler working on our contract but might not have the power to sack outright.
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09 Aug 2019 15:31 #91 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote: No offence meant Kes but if you were my employee then I would be demanding to know why you were slagging off my business on social media.


And you'd promptly get told to mind your own business.

I think there is a difference between slagging off, and giving constructive criticism. Any business should welcome constructive criticism from everyone including staff. As a business you want to make money. If people are unhappy with you then they are less likely to give you their custom, so it's in your interests to listen to what complaints people have and see if there's anything you can improve on or do better, and hopefully win more customers.

munchymagic wrote: They are called fans of Carlisle United, the club that you follow and work for.


I'm a fan too. Am I not allowed to speak out and criticize when I feel that the people running the club are driving it into the ground? Because that's what you seem to be saying.


No not at all as I agree but at the same time I would direct any frustration directly to my employers if that was the case and not on social media.

I would be intrigued to know how far you would get with your boss if they asked you a 'reasonable request' as in what you put on social media regarding the company and you told them to 'mind your own business' - surely you are not that naïve.

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09 Aug 2019 16:06 - 09 Aug 2019 16:11 #92 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

munchymagic wrote: No not at all as I agree but at the same time I would direct any frustration directly to my employers if that was the case and not on social media.


And do you really think owners whose attitude is "if you don't like it then don't come back" would listen to that?

munchymagic wrote: I would be intrigued to know how far you would get with your boss if they asked you a 'reasonable request' as in what you put on social media regarding the company and you told them to 'mind your own business' - surely you are not that naïve.


I'd question whether that request was actually reasonable. In my opinion there is a difference between "slagging off" and giving constructive criticism. I criticize the way the club is run yes, but I explain why I feel that way and do it in a constructive way, suggesting how they could improve things. The BOD have said they are happy to listen to criticism from the fans. Shouldn't that apply to all fans, regardless of who they work for?
Last edit: 09 Aug 2019 16:11 by Kessler.

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09 Aug 2019 16:26 #93 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote: No not at all as I agree but at the same time I would direct any frustration directly to my employers if that was the case and not on social media.


And do you really think owners whose attitude is "if you don't like it then don't come back" would listen to that?

munchymagic wrote: I would be intrigued to know how far you would get with your boss if they asked you a 'reasonable request' as in what you put on social media regarding the company and you told them to 'mind your own business' - surely you are not that naïve.


I'd question whether that request was actually reasonable. In my opinion there is a difference between "slagging off" and giving constructive criticism. I criticize the way the club is run yes, but I explain why I feel that way and do it in a constructive way, suggesting how they could improve things. The BOD have said they are happy to listen to criticism from the fans. Shouldn't that apply to all fans, regardless of who they work for?


Again - I agree with the way that the club is run but you are missing the point.

It is a very fine line between constructive criticism and biting the hand that feeds, usually in these situations they will thank you for your input and then you will find that your cards are marked.

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09 Aug 2019 16:47 #94 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic FAO Mr Lapping

munchymagic wrote: It is a very fine line between constructive criticism and biting the hand that feeds, usually in these situations they will thank you for your input and then you will find that your cards are marked.


Careful munch you're starting to sound like you care and are looking out for my best interests.

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09 Aug 2019 17:06 #95 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Kessler wrote:

munchymagic wrote: It is a very fine line between constructive criticism and biting the hand that feeds, usually in these situations they will thank you for your input and then you will find that your cards are marked.


Careful munch you're starting to sound like you care and are looking out for my best interests.


If you read between the lines then you will see that yes, I am.

Your heart is in the right place and wouldn't like to see you lose your job or get a warning.

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09 Aug 2019 17:29 #96 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic FAO Mr Lapping
Kessler,
Have you got pink hair, or some other daft colour?

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09 Aug 2019 18:57 #97 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic FAO Mr Lapping
I know a trouble maker when I see one-Kessler;your line of questioning is unlikely to endear you to anyone other than the civil service.

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09 Aug 2019 20:06 #98 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping
The amount of times I didn't agree with everything regarding company policies is massive - you soon come to the realisation most of the time that you are lucky to have a job in the first place and that you tow the company line, you actually beg to get these jobs in the first place and know the terms and conditions.

Nothing worse to a company when you demand that they conform to your way of doing things.

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09 Aug 2019 21:08 #99 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic FAO Mr Lapping
I agree munch, when you sign up for a job you should read the contract agree and sign, if you don’t like it then leave.

We,re talking about a steward though hear, not the end of the world if you lose that job for speaking the truth, however I don’t think Kessler has said anything derogatory. Chill

At least we’re not Stockport

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09 Aug 2019 21:45 #100 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic FAO Mr Lapping

Mullen103 wrote: I agree munch, when you sign up for a job you should read the contract agree and sign, if you don’t like it then leave.

We,re talking about a steward though hear, not the end of the world if you lose that job for speaking the truth, however I don’t think Kessler has said anything derogatory. Chill


CHILL - I will give you CHILL.

Six kids mixing up that slime shite and I leave them to it for ten minutes and I come back and the carpet is [censored].

Bloody School holidays :)
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Mullen103, thesilentone

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