Thomas Cook

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20 Sep 2019 08:47 #1 by CCU
Thomas Cook was created by CCU
Need to find £200m pronto or the firm will go bust:


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20 Sep 2019 08:51 #2 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Thomas Cook
Got a flight booked with them in February,i cant see them surviving so looking at alternatives.

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20 Sep 2019 15:50 #3 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Thomas Cook
What I don’t get is if it’s gonna cost ABTA up to £600 million to repatriate people then why don’t they invest the £200 to safeguard against it.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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20 Sep 2019 19:12 #4 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Thomas Cook
They have £6bn of debt-one has to ask how they intend to repay it before you give them any money.

It needs broken up-it’s like a big fat elephant which cannot move with the times.They still rely heavily on shops which is poor.

Technology is changing life very fast-look at the 30pc reduction in electricity cost from wind power in 18 months.I reckon electricity will be free in a decade

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20 Sep 2019 19:22 - 20 Sep 2019 19:24 #5 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Thomas Cook
Thomas Cook, the oldest travel company going back to the 1800s, is obviously trying to maintain that title but is struggling against the leaner more competitive, but not necessarily better companies out there.

Shame

The debt, never mind some new operating finance, is a massive millstone

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Last edit: 20 Sep 2019 19:24 by seesaw50.

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21 Sep 2019 01:55 #6 by cufcmike
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Been hearing cases of folk on holiday being told by their hotel that they need to pay for their room (which they've already paid TC for) as TC haven't given the hotels the money... Not looking good.

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22 Sep 2019 19:55 #7 by thesilentone
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They are tom-ducked, my guess is 7.30am tomorrow morning.

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22 Sep 2019 19:57 #8 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Thomas Cook
Was reading that they usually make the decision once all aircraft are grounded for the day, late at night. They then have through the night to prepare a statement in anticipation of the stock market opening in the morning...

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22 Sep 2019 20:25 - 22 Sep 2019 20:26 #9 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Thomas Cook
Poor sods not knowing if they’ll be flying!


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Last edit: 22 Sep 2019 20:26 by CCU.

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22 Sep 2019 20:51 #10 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Thomas Cook
If they go into administration should i book a flight right away before prices rise or is their still some chance of them being rescued and me being left with 2 flights ?

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22 Sep 2019 21:06 #11 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Thomas Cook
All the major brands will survive but independently in my view-use your credit card!
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22 Sep 2019 21:16 #12 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Thomas Cook
They are Chinese owned..why would the UK Govt bail them out

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22 Sep 2019 23:31 #13 by Bluedazblue
Replied by Bluedazblue on topic Thomas Cook

seesaw50 wrote: They are Chinese owned..why would the UK Govt bail them out


I thought the Chinese only held a small percentage of the shares but I'm happy to be corrected if that is the case.

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22 Sep 2019 23:43 #14 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Thomas Cook
All eyes are on the 03.55 scheduled arrival from Dalaman at Newcastle Airport. Rumour is that at midnight UK time all flights will be suspended which means that the Dalaman departure will be cancelled.

A right pain for holidaymakers.

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23 Sep 2019 02:07 #15 by West Cumbria United fan
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It's gone CAA website says its ceased trading

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23 Sep 2019 03:49 #16 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Thomas Cook
Yes very sad. Those lucky passengers on the Dalaman-Newcastle flight were the last to fly with Thomas Cook as the plane took off before midnight UK time and landed in Newcastle at 03.23. All the planes are now grounded and will be seized.

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23 Sep 2019 05:10 #17 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Thomas Cook
Sad day for the staff,just re-booked my flight to Tenerife in Feb with Jet2 and the price went up £50 diring booking.

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23 Sep 2019 06:52 #18 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Thomas Cook
Totally agree regarding the staff. Fair enough it’s a inconvenience to those of us with a holiday booked but these people have kids to feed and cloth etc. Very sad day.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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23 Sep 2019 07:21 #19 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Thomas Cook
Labour now saying the government should have intervened-despite £6bn of debt and a failed business model.

The market has too much capacity-eg cheap flights.

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23 Sep 2019 07:26 #20 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Thomas Cook
I think given the size of it they maybe should have done. At least as a temporary measure to give a bit of breathing space. Not nice seeing 9k people lose their jobs. I’m sure you agree on that bit.

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23 Sep 2019 07:41 #21 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Thomas Cook
So many companies going under though at the moment, where do you draw the line? Carillion was 43000 staff. Debenhams?
Sad times

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23 Sep 2019 07:41 #22 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Thomas Cook
Even Nixon and Co couldn't run up £6billion in debt. That seems very careless on the face of it.

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23 Sep 2019 07:41 #23 by BlueAl
Replied by BlueAl on topic Thomas Cook
How on earth did they get to £6bn of debt? Someone is responsible.

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23 Sep 2019 07:44 #24 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Thomas Cook

nobbyblue wrote: Even Nixon and Co couldn't run up £6billion in debt. That seems very careless on the face of it.


My wife could

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23 Sep 2019 07:49 #25 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Thomas Cook
Mate had his credit card stolen a while back and some cheeky bar steward was using it.

He never reported it though as he was spending a lot less than the wife.
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23 Sep 2019 08:03 #26 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Thomas Cook
I’m afraid you have to draw a line somewhere-and it is the poor staff who suffer.

I think the Regulator needs to revisit how balance sheets are built and monitored in this and many other industries as it’s debt that is dragging them down.Lenders put in covenants to try and police their debt but then use these covenants to punish the borrower.Marko knows the score.

Travel companies are pretty stiffly regulated as they expose the taxpayer in the event of failure so I’m surprised Thomas Cook were able to accrue £6bn of debt.

This is one business where Brexit has a hand in its demise.Weak currency is a nightmare for travel-weaker consumer demand, expensive beds and fuel and margins are wafer thin.

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23 Sep 2019 10:36 #27 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Thomas Cook
You are the expert here Andrew, my impression is that it is an industry that has been ripped apart by the internet- so easy to book a holiday etc with booking.com or whoever.
My concern is that the jobs that we lose are being replaced by short term, low wage, short hours jobs. When I was a kid being a Saturday boy in Tesco was a rite of passage, now it's a graduate entry job.

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23 Sep 2019 10:54 #28 by thesilentone
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Markovitch wrote: You are the expert here Andrew, my impression is that it is an industry that has been ripped apart by the internet- so easy to book a holiday etc with booking.com or whoever.
My concern is that the jobs that we lose are being replaced by short term, low wage, short hours jobs. When I was a kid being a Saturday boy in Tesco was a rite of passage, now it's a graduate entry job.


I agree, the way people book Holidays has changed, or a significant part of the market has. The Holiday market has also changed, a week laying in the sun in Spain is decreasing, as people and families are now looking for activity Holidays, and as you say, booking themselves on-line.

If you are carrying the burden of needing to make £3m a week profit just to service your debts, you are doomed in that market.

However, your comment on working hours is not correct, average hours worked (which includes zero hours contracts) is over 30.

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23 Sep 2019 10:55 - 23 Sep 2019 10:57 #29 by lummy8
Replied by lummy8 on topic Thomas Cook
I booked a holiday through TUI, my mate on the same flight I am on has had an email from TUI saying his holiday is cancelled because it was a Thomas Cook flight. I have not had this so I have called TUI, they say because I booked online they can't tell me if my holiday is cancelled or not.

Up until the end of October all holidays are cancelled, they do not know what is happening after that, but to be patient.

Annoyed that I booked through TUI and somehow ended up with a Thomas Cook package, I will be covered though as it is technically a TUI holiday won't I?
Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 10:57 by lummy8.
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23 Sep 2019 11:03 #30 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Thomas Cook
I have got a lot of experience in this as it was Direct Holidays which disrupted the market in 1996 by cutting out the middle man eg Lynn Poly etc.The margin lost to the High Street middle man was 15pc of the holiday!From that we then saw ‘dynamic packaging’ where you created your holiday on the internet.

I have to say package holidays are back in fashion however. Mainly down to all inclusives due to the weak pound.

I think a Thomas Cook is much more complex-a lot of headwinds at once, but starting with a fat and flabby platform and debt.Beyond that, Brexit, hot summer last year which encouraged people to stay at home this year, and worst of all, a big tanker which couldn’t change direction very quickly

Basically a mess

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23 Sep 2019 11:31 #31 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Thomas Cook

lummy8 wrote: I booked a holiday through TUI, my mate on the same flight I am on has had an email from TUI saying his holiday is cancelled because it was a Thomas Cook flight. I have not had this so I have called TUI, they say because I booked online they can't tell me if my holiday is cancelled or not.

Up until the end of October all holidays are cancelled, they do not know what is happening after that, but to be patient.

Annoyed that I booked through TUI and somehow ended up with a Thomas Cook package, I will be covered though as it is technically a TUI holiday won't I?


Lummy you shouldn't suffer financially but the flights part has now been cancelled meaning the whole holiday is potentially at risk. TUI will be trying to find alternative flights. However if the flights are to tricky destinations like Dominican Republic, the cost of the alternative flights may mean that TUI prefer to cancel your holiday and refund you in full.
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23 Sep 2019 12:33 - 23 Sep 2019 13:31 #32 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Thomas Cook

lummy8 wrote: I booked a holiday through TUI, my mate on the same flight I am on has had an email from TUI saying his holiday is cancelled because it was a Thomas Cook flight. I have not had this so I have called TUI, they say because I booked online they can't tell me if my holiday is cancelled or not.

Up until the end of October all holidays are cancelled, they do not know what is happening after that, but to be patient.

Annoyed that I booked through TUI and somehow ended up with a Thomas Cook package, I will be covered though as it is technically a TUI holiday won't I?



The way I read it, you have no contract with Thomas Cook, but have with TUI. You have bought and most likely paid for some or all of the product, therefore they are duty (and legally) bound to provide it.

If they use a sub-contractor for any part of there supply to you, then it is there duty to find an alternative if that sub-contractor cannot meet there obligations.

I would insist they provide you with what you purchased, however read the small print first. If they can't you should be legally covered to find an alternative supplier for the same or similar and any additional costs you incur be passed to TUI as breach of contract.


Some holidays have gone up over £300.00 overnight: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/arti...collapse-costly.html
Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 13:31 by thesilentone.
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23 Sep 2019 13:30 #33 by lummy8
Replied by lummy8 on topic Thomas Cook
Cheers, my dad booked his holiday (same place,date, flights) so he he has been to the shop and they say his holiday is fine as its a TUI flight, so surely that should mean mine is?

Their website/app is down, probably updating everything! The lady in the shop said my hol should be fine and my mates if he is indeed on the same flight which he is. He will need to make a call and be on hold for a while!

We go to Cyprus in May so hopefully they feel they can fulfill that no problem even if Thomas Cook were somehow involved.

TUI staff are probably a little all over the place too!

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23 Sep 2019 13:36 #34 by thesilentone
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They'll be busy putting all the prices up :-)
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23 Sep 2019 13:37 #35 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Thomas Cook
Lummy you should be fine. There will be loads of airline capacity to Cyprus by next May so it is up to TUI to find suitable alternative flights for you even if airports and departure times might change. With some destinations the holidays may become very uneconomical to provide therefore they may be cancelled. TUI can rely on the force majeure clause in the small print which they will argue will cover the collapse of a major supplier.
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23 Sep 2019 13:38 #36 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic Thomas Cook
Feel for the staff who’ve lost their jobs and the customers who’ve lost their holidays but absolutely no sympathy for the company due to their disgusting treatment of the family who’s kids were killed in one of their hotels in Corfu in 2006.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/13/...hs-children-in-corfu

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_Christ..._and_Robert_Shepherd

Always vowed never to use them again after this and urged others to do the same, won’t have to worry about that anymore.

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003
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23 Sep 2019 13:48 #37 by thetashkentterror
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Cyprus!!??

What's wrong with Whitley Bay these days for you north-east boys?

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23 Sep 2019 13:53 #38 by lummy8
Replied by lummy8 on topic Thomas Cook
Been there too much, especially since the Spanish City has been refurbished. Whitley Bay, then long to Tynemouth, I recommend to anyone.

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23 Sep 2019 14:34 #39 by thesilentone
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carwash wrote: Lummy you should be fine. There will be loads of airline capacity to Cyprus by next May so it is up to TUI to find suitable alternative flights for you even if airports and departure times might change. With some destinations the holidays may become very uneconomical to provide therefore they may be cancelled. TUI can rely on the force majeure clause in the small print which they will argue will cover the collapse of a major supplier.


Don't think Force Majeure applies to a sub-contractor going bust, it is not unexpected or a one-off (it is matter-less how big the Company is). It could be the Airline, Hotel Chain, Transport Company or anyone else in the supply chain that went bust, it happens all the time, therefore is a straight-forward risk.

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23 Sep 2019 16:04 #40 by sirjimmyglass
Replied by sirjimmyglass on topic Thomas Cook
Be patient, you'll be fine.

Natural instinct is to panic now and ask loads of questions but realise that they're without doubt being inundated with people asking them the same questions. Unless your holiday is in the next week or so give them time to update whatever they need to and I've no doubt they'd be in touch if anything changed.

It will be absolute hell being any member of staff working an airport today, in any role. People will be shouting and swearing at staff who have absolutely no say in what is going on, or have any ability to fix it.
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23 Sep 2019 16:52 #41 by thesilentone
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It's an ill wind that blows no good, TUI's shares have shot up :-)

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23 Sep 2019 16:59 #42 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Thomas Cook
I think we all know there is too much capacity in the market-was told hotels in Mallorca are still full but room rates down 60pc year on year due to Airbnb.That is the next challenge for even the likes of TUI.

Looks like the Goldilocks period for cheap holidays and flights might be over for a while.

The internet thing is very real and disruptive-when we had the hotel in Edinburgh, we were paying Expedia and Booking.com 20pc commission for a booking-and if you dared attempt to negotiate, they switched you off.

Most successful travel operators and hoteliers actually don’t own or any tangible assets nowadays-as Thomas Cook are finding out.Even their High Street leases are a liability.

I still cannot fathom out what the ATOL and ABTA Regulators were doing letting them get so much into debt as they stress test balance sheets every year.

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23 Sep 2019 17:04 #43 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Thomas Cook

thesilentone wrote:

carwash wrote: Lummy you should be fine. There will be loads of airline capacity to Cyprus by next May so it is up to TUI to find suitable alternative flights for you even if airports and departure times might change. With some destinations the holidays may become very uneconomical to provide therefore they may be cancelled. TUI can rely on the force majeure clause in the small print which they will argue will cover the collapse of a major supplier.


Don't think Force Majeure applies to a sub-contractor going bust, it is not unexpected or a one-off (it is matter-less how big the Company is). It could be the Airline, Hotel Chain, Transport Company or anyone else in the supply chain that went bust, it happens all the time, therefore is a straight-forward risk.


We are not talking about a run-of-the-mill supplier going bust where there are reasonable alternatives. Force majeure can apply if for example a travel company had booked with Thomas Cook as the only airline travelling a particular route and the other alternatives were not practicable or were prohibitively expensive, in which case the travel company can cancel a booking under its t&cs making a full refund rather than be forced to fulfil the booking. Hopefully this will be very much the exception and will not affect very many passengers. All will become clear over the next few months as things settle down.

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23 Sep 2019 19:18 #44 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Thomas Cook

lummy8 wrote: Been there too much, especially since the Spanish City has been refurbished. Whitley Bay, then long to Tynemouth, I recommend to anyone.


Take lummys word comrades...it is definitely to be recommended been over twice this year

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23 Sep 2019 19:45 - 23 Sep 2019 20:10 #45 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Thomas Cook

lummy8 wrote: Cheers, my dad booked his holiday (same place,date, flights) so he he has been to the shop and they say his holiday is fine as its a TUI flight, so surely that should mean mine is?

Their website/app is down, probably updating everything! The lady in the shop said my hol should be fine and my mates if he is indeed on the same flight which he is. He will need to make a call and be on hold for a while!

We go to Cyprus in May so hopefully they feel they can fulfill that no problem even if Thomas Cook were somehow involved.

TUI staff are probably a little all over the place too!


Crikey Lummy.......thought you were going next week or summat.

I'm on a TUI flight this Friday from Newcastle.......no problem

The most sickening thing is the CEO continued to be paid and accepted an excessive salary and obscene bonuses amounting to £8.4m in return for presiding over a failing company...the company had been in big trouble since 2011 apparently

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Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 20:10 by seesaw50.

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23 Sep 2019 20:01 #46 by Taffy-P
Replied by Taffy-P on topic Thomas Cook
What ever the cause of the collapse We have use Thomas Cook for holidays for years with no problems I thought their flights were especially good

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23 Sep 2019 20:47 #47 by thesilentone
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How things change, once upon a time you knew it was Holiday time from the colored brochures laying all round the house. The night would arrive after many " have you looked at any of those brochures yet" to browse together, then go to where the nicest picture was.

Down to the agents, sit down and go through a well rehearsed agenda that had more questions than a 100k loan :-) Choose the Holiday which would be at least 6 months in advance, then follow the instructions until the big day.

Now it's, " Do you fancy a holiday next months " " erm, ay where to " " I don't know, I've always fancied seeing them Pyramids " " Oh, ay, I'll have a look ont tinterweb" 15 minutes later holiday booked, plus a sail down the Nile all inclusive for two weeks for £500.00 each.

Change is a great thing..........

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24 Sep 2019 05:12 #48 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Thomas Cook
Suppliers going bankrupt doesn't constitute force majeure, can be reasonably foreseen. Thames Valley Power
Good site here on advice for travellers with holidays booked
www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2019/09/t...200m-extra-funding-/

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24 Sep 2019 12:21 #49 by BlueofBuckshaw
Replied by BlueofBuckshaw on topic Thomas Cook

lummy8 wrote:
We go to Cyprus in May so hopefully they feel they can fulfill that no problem even if Thomas Cook were somehow involved.


Take it you aren't expecting to be required to cover the Play Offs Chris? ;)
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24 Sep 2019 14:44 #50 by thesilentone
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I'm surprised we haven't heard more about the supply chain, Thomas Cook handled 19m travelers a year, in several Countries (I see the Kraut operation is continuing)

This must have a massive trickle-down impact............

They should have closed down the high street shops years ago.

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