December 2019 General Election Thread

Bruntonpasty wrote: someone I know summed it up for me, "It's like picking somebody to pork your Mrs, you don't want it to happen but you have to choose someone"

But in the case of Boris, he's probably porked her already.

Well he did spend some time in botchergate.

ExiledJock wrote: Keeping things local, John Stevenson ALWAYS voted against gay rights legislation, he ALWAYS voted against gay marriage, he voted 51 times to reduce welfare spending, he voted 20 times to raise VAT, he voted 14 times against a banker's tax, he consistently voted for mass surveillance powers, voted to sell off state forests, voted to cull badgers, voted 11 times to restrict legal aid.

More often than not he was simply toeing the party line but he - and the Tories - are no friends of ordinary Carlisle people.

You almost certainly have gay friends or family. By voting for the Tories you say they should be treated differently. And even if you don't, you probably know a few poor people who are struggling. And when you vote Tory, they will continue to struggle for years to come.

Good post that, pity it’s copied and pasted from twitter and not yours.

Not that it matters, but I actually went to

www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24799/john_stevenson/carlisle

... And pulled out the numbers. It took the best part of 10 minutes but that's the kind of guy I am.

Here's the thing - I'm not actually Labour. Never been particularly inspired by them. Am underwhelmed by their current offer. But in 2019, I'm not voting for myself. I'm at the poorer end of comfortable. I can't actually afford to go to Brunton Park at the moment. Can afford food and heating and to run a car. But there are people worse off than me, and there seem to be more of them than there used to be. Despite low unemployment, the poor seem poorer and the number of working poor seems to be growing. So I will be voting Labour for the people who are poorer than me, and for the fact that stuff like racism and intolerance is visibly worse now than it has been in a generation.

ExiledJock wrote: Not that it matters, but I actually went to

www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24799/john_stevenson/carlisle

... And pulled out the numbers. It took the best part of 10 minutes but that's the kind of guy I am.

Here's the thing - I'm not actually Labour. Never been particularly inspired by them. Am underwhelmed by their current offer. But in 2019, I'm not voting for myself. I'm at the poorer end of comfortable. I can't actually afford to go to Brunton Park at the moment. Can afford food and heating and to run a car. But there are people worse off than me, and there seem to be more of them than there used to be. Despite low unemployment, the poor seem poorer and the number of working poor seems to be growing. So I will be voting Labour for the people who are poorer than me, and for the fact that stuff like racism and intolerance is visibly worse now than it has been in a generation.

Jezza's not the man for the job as long as McDonnel is sitting on his right hand. His political aspirations are scary and will lead to major social problems. You cannot tax the rich anymore, they already pay more than their fair share www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/09/ac...ome-not-their-wealth

I do agree that the way some of our main services were privatised was wrong, however they were such a massive drain on Government funds, it was done in haste to save money for the taxpayers, and was part of Maggie's plan that Mr Average should be a shareholder, not just the City fat cats. Re-Nationalising of the railways and water services should be given consideration, however energy is a global commodity subject to both political and market forces., maybe Nationalise the infrastructure only.

Labour v Tory is still a class war, but Labour has lost touch with it's roots after the decimation of Unions and Unionised Companies. They cannot deal with free enterprise, Blair's PPI debacle is proof.

The current Labour Party are unfit for purpose as long as Jezza, McDonnal, Thorburry and Abbot are at the helm. The Tory Parties problems are deep and wide, but for now, with the issues of the day as a priority, we have little option.

Boris is blocking the planned cut in corporation tax from 19% to 17%. There are no votes to be won from cutting company taxes. Plus his spending plans are going to need funding from somewhere. I can see top rates of income tax going up for those earning over £150k a year to help doctors and others caught in the tax trap at around £100k a year.

Probably needs its own thread but due to my MS diagnosis i've been getting NHS services regularly. What a wonderful thing it is with excellent, knowledgeable and caring people throughout.

The NHS gets bad press sometimes but i've nothing but praise for them working in hectic conditions. Seeing 1st hand what they do all workers are hard working and excellent.

The NHS gets taken for granted at times and really shouldn't be used as a political football, we're very lucky to have it in this country and certainly don't want a system like the US.

Most NHS workers are anti conservatives, you need to ask why that is?

Can’t agree that there is little option but to vote Tory. Quite the opposite we have no option but to oust the Tories if you even have an inkling of humanity they are the party of greed fostered from the Thatcher years and if they are put in for another five years it will give them carte blanche to finish their hatchet job on the NHS.
Unemployment may be at a low but in many cases this applies to zero hour jobs and using apprenticeships as an excuse not to give proper contracts and security.
The Tory record right across the board in their tenure is abysmal and very few other than the wealthy have benefited. It’s difficult to understand how so many ordinary people are happy to have a collection of Eton millionaires completely devoid of the realities of the lives of real people.
You can’t escape that the present mess we are in is totally down to their rule.
Not a Corbyn fan but at least they are offering a different approach what exactly scares people about that I’m not quite sure.

Without a shadow of a doubt our choices have been dictated, to a lesser or larger extent, by the 3 year failure to deliver the democratic vote that was - and is - Brexit. Like many people in this country I have voted several times in general elections and have totally accepted whatever the democratic vote has been. I and 17.4 million people are completely pissed off that some elected representatives of the people in Westminster, and elsewhere, clearly think that we are tossers and are to be ignored. As such, I will vote Conservative to help ensure that democracy in this country prevails. And I agree, a lot of our conservative MPs haven't an inkling of how the ordinary worker gets-by, they seem to live in a parallel universe. To balance things up, the other party leaders are all bigoted clowns, promising anything for the keys to power.

According to the news,Labour is going to launch a review of our ‘Colonial last’

Why not go back to 1066 and see if we can find out why we lost that battle?

I really hope Boris takes Corbyn down tonight-hope and charisma against delusion and misery

Once upon a time, moderate Union representatives used to meet with the Boards and Industry Associations of private business on a yearly basis.

They agreed the next years pay settlement and any other issues, these were made public and life went on.

Then the hard left infiltrated the Union movement and the sxxt hit the fan, then working to rule and strikes became the order of the day.

The Country went bankrupt and a women was put in charge to sort the mess out, which she did.

If this barmpot ever gets any power, the bad old days will be back in a heart beat.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50474345

Look at that spin from the establishment media propaganda machine. Not quite inaccurate but presented in a way that is designed to trigger a certain negative reaction in people they have been priming with anti Corbyn spin over the years.

McDonnell wants workers to have some control over their own lives. The media will never report Labour's hugely popular policies in a positive light.

Last nights so-called debate summed it up. Boris wants a Brexit agenda and Corbyn wants a NHS agenda.

We never dig down into the issues, it's all about sound-bites.

No one has answered the reason why A&E waiting is at an all time high, Farage has gone half way by explaining how you cannot continue to allow uncontrolled movement of people without massive planning in advance.

However one of the other reasons that is not discussed (for fear of the delicate Politics) is the local practices sending those that require a specialist doctor via the A&E route as opposed to a direct referral. This is because they get seen faster that way, and become someone else's problem.

The ammount of times you hear the words ' properly funded ' NHS makes you think we are scrimping.

Well at £16m per hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week or £2206.00 per person/year, we a certainly not short on spending.

This is without the £100's of millions of so-called Emergency Funding we plough in every year.

So,given many who pay taxes and NI use the NHS and many that don't pay taxes or NI also use the NHS.

Maybe we should all have the choice to pay more if we think we need to spend more via a voluntary additional payment option.

thesilentone wrote: No one has answered the reason why A&E waiting is at an all time high, Farage has gone half way by explaining how you cannot continue to allow uncontrolled movement of people without massive planning in advance.

However one of the other reasons that is not discussed (for fear of the delicate Politics) is the local practices sending those that require a specialist doctor via the A&E route as opposed to a direct referral. This is because they get seen faster that way, and become someone else's problem.

.

A lot of people don't even go via their GP, they go straight to A&E as a 3 hour wait is quicker than getting a doctor's appointment.

I know the NHS are trialling a system which will assess A&E and non A&E off site-main problem is the logjam created by A&E being the destination of choice.

Throwing money at something just creates waste.They need controls and organisation and as for excluding US drugs companies, I would have thought patients relying on US drugs might have a say in that.

Treating the NHS like a political football is shameful

orfc wrote:

thesilentone wrote: No one has answered the reason why A&E waiting is at an all time high, Farage has gone half way by explaining how you cannot continue to allow uncontrolled movement of people without massive planning in advance.

However one of the other reasons that is not discussed (for fear of the delicate Politics) is the local practices sending those that require a specialist doctor via the A&E route as opposed to a direct referral. This is because they get seen faster that way, and become someone else's problem.

.

A lot of people don't even go via their GP, they go straight to A&E as a 3 hour wait is quicker than getting a doctor's appointment.

Yes, but unless it's an emergency, what is the problem with waiting a couple of days for a Doctors appointment.

Like has been said above, we take the NHS for granted, then once in the care of the NHS, its world is full of regulation and litigation, so no one dare refuse anyone anything.

We should all be fighting against those who abuse the NHS, they are slowly killing the Golden Goose.

The NHS paid for by the inhabitants of the United Kingdom, should be available exclusively for those people and no other. Everyone else should be charged at the point of use.

Anyone who turns up at A&E (Accident and Emergency) that is neither of those, should be turned away, back to the GP.

If you can't pay, give Jezza a ring

Never understood why we don't have pop-up or mobile facilities in town centres where people can quickly access and see a nurse or similar and told 'you need to see a GP or go A&E or just go to Boots and get this.'

ExiledJock wrote: Never understood why we don't have pop-up or mobile facilities in town centres where people can quickly access and see a nurse or similar and told 'you need to see a GP or go A&E or just go to Boots and get this.'

We do! - It's called a pharmacy

Does the hilltop still have a cuedoc thing?

Edinburgh has a minor injuries clinic, so instead of troubling the GP or A&E with a sprained ankle and waiting for them to go "aye, it's sprained", you can get a doctor there to tell you what you already knew. And maybe a pamphlet on RICE.

Mullen103 wrote:

ExiledJock wrote: Never understood why we don't have pop-up or mobile facilities in town centres where people can quickly access and see a nurse or similar and told 'you need to see a GP or go A&E or just go to Boots and get this.'

We do! - It's called a pharmacy

How's that work?

"What should I do about this lump on my scrote - here, look"
*SCREAMS*

Laffy wrote:
I really hope Boris takes Corbyn down tonight-hope and charisma against delusion and misery

I saw the debate. As one looking for inspiration and looking for something good from an opposition perspective I was disappointed, though it did perhaps confirm the state of play between the 2 parties as an overall picture.

Corbyn tried to appear passionate about equality and justice and to seem sensible but came over as weak on his Brexit policy, anti Semitism and was laughed at on the 4 day week. I don't think he did a huge amount wrong but his biggest failing was that he didn't score enough points against his opponent, which he needed to do last night and needs to do from now on.

Johnson was his usual self, blustering and waffling and repeating "get Brexit done" like a parrot and telling the usual sloganeering lies. The impression was, he's got a nice posh accent and uses posh words like "lacuna", but has nothing to say to me as an ordinary person and nothing to offer in terms of positive vision or policy ideas or a vision of the future. He repeated some of his favourite lies such as that they are building 40 new hospitals, and that there will be no trade border down the Irish Sea, and also uttered falsehoods about corporation tax. Nothing new in a politician telling lies or spinning things of course, but he is supposed to be standing as a Prime Minister. The audience laughed at him when he said truth matters.

Looks like it's a case of looking elsewhere for inspiration.

BBC fact checker on what they both said:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50421141

apple.news/Ad54ktLSzSIiiabBa9HdgyA

Good to see that Labour will attack our reputaion as supporting tax avoidnace.

LABOUR’S TAX TRANSPARENCY AND ENFORCEMENT PROGRAMME

Labour’s Tax Transparency and Enforcement Programme will be the most comprehensive effort ever made by any UK government to end the social scourge of tax avoidance and ensure that those super-rich individuals and minority of giant corporations seeking to duck their responsibilities to society will pay their fair share.By its nature, tax avoidance is difficult to quantify. Estimates of the wealth hoarded globally in tax havens range from $4-$20 trillion. Even HMRC estimates that the “tax gap”, some of which is due to tax avoidance and evasion, comes to £36 billion.


1To meet the scale of avoidance, we will reverse the cuts at HMRC, restoring staffing numbers with an additional £200 million of funding, which will enable HMRC to properly investigate avoidance and bring in more revenue.


2 Under a Labour government committed to closing the loopholes and ending tax avoidance through our Tax Transparency and Enforcement Programme, we are confident that at least an additional £6.5-8.5 billion a year can be raised.


The real reason why billionaires don't want Corbyn to be Prime MInister

UK by far the biggest enabler of global corporate tax dodging, groundbreaking research finds
www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news...odging-a8933661.html

Marko-we can count billionaires in a few fingers though they seem to like Carlisle.

The real issue is the attack on people earning six figures and those who take risks to get on.

Markovitch wrote: Good to see that Labour will attack our reputaion as supporting tax avoidnace.

LABOUR’S TAX TRANSPARENCY AND ENFORCEMENT PROGRAMME

Labour’s Tax Transparency and Enforcement Programme will be the most comprehensive effort ever made by any UK government to end the social scourge of tax avoidance and ensure that those super-rich individuals and minority of giant corporations seeking to duck their responsibilities to society will pay their fair share.By its nature, tax avoidance is difficult to quantify. Estimates of the wealth hoarded globally in tax havens range from $4-$20 trillion. Even HMRC estimates that the “tax gap”, some of which is due to tax avoidance and evasion, comes to £36 billion.


1To meet the scale of avoidance, we will reverse the cuts at HMRC, restoring staffing numbers with an additional £200 million of funding, which will enable HMRC to properly investigate avoidance and bring in more revenue.


2 Under a Labour government committed to closing the loopholes and ending tax avoidance through our Tax Transparency and Enforcement Programme, we are confident that at least an additional £6.5-8.5 billion a year can be raised.


The real reason why billionaires don't want Corbyn to be Prime MInister

UK by far the biggest enabler of global corporate tax dodging, groundbreaking research finds
www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news...odging-a8933661.html

You know, and I think 95% of those that contribute to this board know, this will never happen. If there is a shock and Jezza's team win the race, then he has to pass legislation, after several referendums and Brexit and re-nationalising all and sundry. McDonnal then has a spending plan ' the likes of which we have never seen before' , where will he get the money ? Oh, yes he will borrow and increase National debt, but where do the lenders get there money ?

By which time anyone who feels threatened by the Marxist Government (that's everyone with more than 7s/6d) will be off, left the Country, just like last time...............Gains to the exchequer 0, loss to the Country '000's of millions.

Great plan, eh........

But, there is one positive, it will be administered by a team that includes M/s Abbot, so you never know, they may a few zero's in the wrong column

You have to pinch yourself to actually think Corbyn might actually get in.He preys on insecurity and misery-just like Sturgeon.Ultimately it all has to be paid for from a sound economy so the decision really is whether you think Boris or Corbyn can run the economy.One would hope that both have the same aspiration which is to deal with inequality

Link an article that says that all the top earners will flee the country if Corbyn becomes PM then accuse him of scare mongering. So these golden individuals who take risks are all going to shut down their engineering works, IT bureaus and top end boutiques and move to the Kaliningrad or Moluccas free zones because the additional tax is what they spend in Starbucks every month?

But, but, but , but Corbyn. Meanwhile Boris's policies are to flog off the NHS, cut tax for the top 2%. At least Corbyn is trying to build a fairer world

Laffy wrote: You have to pinch yourself to actually think Corbyn might actually get in.He preys on insecurity and misery-just like Sturgeon.Ultimately it all has to be paid for from a sound economy so the decision really is whether you think Boris or Corbyn can run the economy.One would hope that both have the same aspiration which is to deal with inequality

A party that wants to exploit workers and remove all their rights, or a party that wants workers to get a fair wage for the work they do. Won't be a tough decision for me to make.

Show me something that says the Tories exploit workers and remove all their rights-and not from your Toy Town book of Marxist facts that Momentum provide.

It reminds me of the myth about the miners and Tory closures-Labour closed more mines than the Tories.

What is cruel is promising the earth to those on the bottom of the ladder and not delivering.Ask yourself who is best placed to earn the money to spend it because there is no secret money tree Kessler.Billionaires are a bit thin on the ground and easily jump ship so who will pay?

A Conservative Prime Minister has been in Number 10 since the Coalition government formed in 2010. Although Theresa May has described her party as "the party of workers", its track record on employment law has largely revolved around weakening protections at work. Here, we look at some of the rights workers have lost over the last seven years.


1. The right not to be unfairly dismissed after working for your employer for one year

The Unfair Dismissal and Statement of Reasons for Dismissal (Variation of Qualifying Period) Order 2012, which amended the Employment Rights Act 1996, increased the qualifying period for unfair dismissal from one year to two years for those employed after 5th April 2012. This change was supposed to encourage small businesses to recruit more staff by reducing hiring costs, but in fact businesses pocketed a trifling extra £4.7 million in the first year.

2. The right for your employment tribunal claim to be heard by a ‘full panel’

The Employment Tribunals Act 1996 (Tribunal Composition) Order 2012, overturned the presumption that Employment Tribunal proceedings should be heard by a legally qualified Chair supported by two lay members – representing both the trade union movement and business community. Now, employment judges are given the discretion to pick and choose whether to hear an unfair dismissal case alone, or with a 'full panel'. The right to have your employment dispute heard by a panel is one of the unique and crucial features of the original industrial tribunal system with "lay members" being part of what was known as the "industrial jury". These panel members apply their "employment" expertise and real-life experiences in the work place to the interpretation and application of legal principles. They also provide a reassurance to the parties that their views are taken into account. They give the Tribunal a different look and feel to that of an ordinary Court and in many ways judge only hearings are a regressive back.


3. The right to be awarded more than one year's pay if you are unfairly dismissed

Under the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013, the government set a maximum award for successful unfair dismissal claims at one year's gross pay for those earning less than £74,200 each year. This cap now allows bosses to easily calculate the cost of sacking their staff illegally and prevents an Employment Tribunal from punishing the worst-offending firms.

4. The right to bring a claim to the Employment Tribunal without paying fees

The introduction of tribunal fees under the Employment Tribunals and the Employment Appeal Tribunal Fees Order 2013 has priced tens of thousands of people out of justice. To bring an unfair dismissal claim you now need to pay an issuing fee of £250 and a hearing fee of £950 – at a time you are least likely to have cash to spare: When you've just lost your job! Anti-discrimination, equal pay rights, and a range of other individual employment rights have been effectively withdrawn from the millions of British people who cannot afford to pay £1,200 to bring a claim against their employer. Recent research by academics at Oxford University has shown that across the board the impact of Employment Tribunal Fees has led to a two-thirds reduction in most claims. Sex discrimination cases have reduced by a staggering 80% from their pre-fees level. Withheld wage claims are now uneconomic for the lower paid. If you think your employer owes you £400, the gamble of paying a £130 issuing fee, and a £250 hearing fee for a claim which might fail, and, might well not even be paid if it is successful (a 2013 government report found that 35% of claimants had not received any of the compensation they were owed), is a risk many are not prepared to make.


5. The right to be properly consulted by your employer if they are planning to make you and at least 99 of your colleagues redundant

Under the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (Amendment) Order 2013, the minimum period for consultation with workers where an employer proposes to make 100 or more employees redundant within a 90-day period was cut from 90 days to 45 days before the first dismissals could be made. Workers coming to the end of a fixed-term contract are now completely excluded from the consultation regime, so if your time with a firm is coming to an end they can now get rid of you without you being consulted at all.


6. The right to strike if you work in an 'important public service' and a majority of your trade union colleagues vote to take legitimate industrial action

Under the draconian Trade Union Act 2016, millions of public sector workers have had their fundamental right to take part in industrial action taken away. Under the Act, a minimum of 50% of those entitled to vote on any strike must take part in the ballot, and in 'important public services' at least 40% of those entitled to vote must vote in support of the action.

This means that if you work in an 'important public service' such as a state school, fire station, A&E hospital or drive a London bus; and half of your trade union colleagues respond to a postal ballot, then it will require an 80% vote in favour to allow for legal industrial action to go ahead. If 79% of your colleagues vote in favour of striking, and the action goes ahead, then the employer will be almost certain to be granted an injunction to stop the action. If less than half respond then, even if 100% vote in favour, any industrial action will be similarly vulnerable. These ballot thresholds are undemocratic and breach the law: it is against international standards to effectively count abstentions as 'no' votes.

Moreover, the 40% threshold is discriminatory: 73% of those likely to be in these 'important public services' will be women and the Act's definition of what counts as an essential service is out of keeping with international legal norms. The International Labour Organisation defines "essential services" as services where "the interruption of which would endanger the life, personal safety or health of the whole or part of the population". It is hard to see how the Central Line not running, or a child missing one day of schooling, would "endanger life, personal safety or health of the whole or part of the population".


7. The right for public sector employees to ask for their trade union subs to be paid through their pay check without their union being charged a fee by the government

Provisions in the Trade Union Act 2016 were initially going to ban the process of 'check off', where trade union subscriptions are deducted by the employer on pay day. This was a blatant attempt by the Tories to deprive public sector unions of funds. The Government's own assessment of the policy suggested unions would be hit by £11 million in one-off transition costs and they would end up having to pay at least £5 million a year in banking fees. Scaled back after Parliamentary opposition, the Act now requires that unions pay a 'reasonable sum' for the service, and that every public-sector trade union member is given the option of paying union subs by an alternative means.

Markovitch wrote: Link an article that says that all the top earners will flee the country if Corbyn becomes PM then accuse him of scare mongering. So these golden individuals who take risks are all going to shut down their engineering works, IT bureaus and top end boutiques and move to the Kaliningrad or Moluccas free zones because the additional tax is what they spend in Starbucks every month?

But, but, but , but Corbyn. Meanwhile Boris's policies are to flog off the NHS, cut tax for the top 2%. At least Corbyn is trying to build a fairer world

Don't be silly, of course they won't shut down businesses, they will probably bugger off to Dubai or Yankland and become expats, just like many are doing already.

orfc wrote: Does the hilltop still have a cuedoc thing?

Edinburgh has a minor injuries clinic, so instead of troubling the GP or A&E with a sprained ankle and waiting for them to go "aye, it's sprained", you can get a doctor there to tell you what you already knew. And maybe a pamphlet on RICE.

They still do have a couple of nurses up the Hilltop at weekends, I had to go there over a period of months recently.

Not sure what the situation is as in just turning up as I was referred there by my GP, I believe they only did from about 1400 to 1500 on a Saturday and Sunday.

munchymagic wrote:

orfc wrote: Does the hilltop still have a cuedoc thing?

Edinburgh has a minor injuries clinic, so instead of troubling the GP or A&E with a sprained ankle and waiting for them to go "aye, it's sprained", you can get a doctor there to tell you what you already knew. And maybe a pamphlet on RICE.

They still do have a couple of nurses up the Hilltop at weekends, I had to go there over a period of months recently.

Not sure what the situation is as in just turning up as I was referred there by my GP, I believe they only did from about 1400 to 1500 on a Saturday and Sunday.

Cue doc turned into choc and moved to the hospital - out of hours emergency doctors.

The hilltop do occ health, chiropody and other specialist stuff - you need to be referred as you say.

What was it the Tories said when the minimum wage was introduced .... itll wreck the country and drive the economy into the ethos ???
That's what kind of party the tories are !!

thesilentone wrote:

Markovitch wrote: Link an article that says that all the top earners will flee the country if Corbyn becomes PM then accuse him of scare mongering. So these golden individuals who take risks are all going to shut down their engineering works, IT bureaus and top end boutiques and move to the Kaliningrad or Moluccas free zones because the additional tax is what they spend in Starbucks every month?

But, but, but , but Corbyn. Meanwhile Boris's policies are to flog off the NHS, cut tax for the top 2%. At least Corbyn is trying to build a fairer world

Don't be silly, of course they won't shut down businesses, they will probably bugger off to Dubai or Yankland and become expats, just like many are doing already.

And how will that save them tax? Taxes are higher in America. If you are earning 100k from a business you are working in it. How will you run a shop from dubai? And who has gone already?

That's the nonsense of this argument. And we'll still have lower taxes than 75% of Europe

As I said the other day Marko, the fact the Labour manifesto was co-written by the party and their paymaster unions says it all.

Do the tories have a manifesto? What policies do they have? It's certainly never been costed. The only tory policy is to attack corbyns character.

After over 2 years you still haven't given me a tory success

How about fixing the mess your lot left in 2010?We all remember the note left in the Treasury.

I regard removing Gordon Brown from office as akin to winning the World Cup.Thats a huge success.

We also have ‘full employment’ and record tax receipts.

It’s a pity Cameron left-I rather liked the coalition with Clegg.

Markovitch wrote: Link an article that says that all the top earners will flee the country if Corbyn becomes PM then accuse him of scare mongering. So these golden individuals who take risks are all going to shut down their engineering works, IT bureaus and top end boutiques and move to the Kaliningrad or Moluccas free zones because the additional tax is what they spend in Starbucks every month?

But, but, but , but Corbyn. Meanwhile Boris's policies are to flog off the NHS, cut tax for the top 2%. At least Corbyn is trying to build a fairer world

"The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools.

Lawyers and accountants for the UK’s richest families said they had been deluged with calls from millionaire and billionaire clients asking for help and advice on moving countries, shifting their fortunes offshore and making early gifts to their children to avoid the Labour leader’s threat to tax all inheritances above £125,000.

The advisers said a Corbyn-led government was viewed as a far greater threat to the wealth and quality of life of the richest 1% than a hard Brexit."

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/sup...-corbyn-wealth-taxes

Erm you seem to have moved the goalposts again from Quote Marko: "these golden individuals who take risks are all going to shut down their engineering works, IT bureaus and top end boutiques and move to the Kaliningrad or Moluccas free zones because the additional tax is what they spend in Starbucks every month?"

to Quote Marko: "How will you run a shop from dubai?"

Engineering Works, IT Bureaus and top end boutiques to - run a shop is a little different.........

Oh, should have added: Mr Day appears to do OK running his shop from Dubai.

Yes-I doubt PD is resident in Dubai for the sun

Meanwhile Royal Mail shares down 15pc this morning , the company citing the threat of industrial action inhibiting their ability to change with a fast moving market.Basically, we don’t need as many postmen but the unions are oblivious to it

Do you not understand SO, the super rich don't pay tax, that's why they are here. People earning 30k a year are paying a higher rate of tax than people earning 30k a day.

It was Laffy who said the tax won't be born by billionaires, it will be borne by people earning 100k a year. Corbyn's tax plans will increase their tax bill by £20 a month. They are going to move abroad for that? Really.

When their health insurance bill under Johnson will be £500 a month to keep the cover they currently get?

For people who don't understand that the level of Government propaganda in Britain is no less than in North Korea or Russia.

British newspapers heap positive coverage on Tories while trashing Labour,

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/g...labour-a9209026.html

No, I don't understand what you're on about, just like the rest of these stupid [censored]:

"The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools.

"Lawyers and accountants for the UK’s richest families said they had been deluged with calls from millionaire and billionaire clients asking for help and advice on moving countries, shifting their fortunes offshore and making early gifts to their children to avoid the Labour leader’s threat to tax all inheritances above £125,000.

The advisers said a Corbyn-led government was viewed as a far greater threat to the wealth and quality of life of the richest 1% than a hard Brexit."

It’s always the middle class who will suffer the disproportionate tax burden.Those at the top can simply move abroad as we know.

Middle classes-eg doctors, company directors, dentists.These are the achieving and essential components of our society and they can’t move abroad.But company directors can mitigate their own tax by the way the run their businesses-and that will hurt the overall tax take.

There is a middle ground on tax but rattling on about billionaires when the real pain will be felt in the middle is misleading and very shoddy.

I would rather see the big tech companies pay their fair share to be honest.

Markovitch wrote: Do you not understand SO, the super rich don't pay tax, that's why they are here. People earning 30k a year are paying a higher rate of tax than people earning 30k a day.

It was Laffy who said the tax won't be born by billionaires, it will be borne by people earning 100k a year. Corbyn's tax plans will increase their tax bill by £20 a month. They are going to move abroad for that? Really.

When their health insurance bill under Johnson will be £500 a month to keep the cover they currently get?

For people who don't understand that the level of Government propaganda in Britain is no less than in North Korea or Russia.

British newspapers heap positive coverage on Tories while trashing Labour,

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/g...labour-a9209026.html

On top of the press, we also have the benefit of history. Labour (in my lifetime) usually spend like hell, play around with targets (like the Education standards) to make it look like they are achieving there objectives, then leave the Country bust. The Tories take over and have to cut spending like buggery to help get the Country functioning again and get the exchequer back in black.

Come election time the NHS is squeezed into the agenda and all the key issues are downgraded. The UK has some priorities at this time, the main one being Brexit and moving forward.

Will Jezza's policy deliver this - No Chance.......

But we'll have a four day week and everything is going to be free!

thesilentone wrote: No, I don't understand what you're on about, just like the rest of these stupid [censored]:

"The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools.

"Lawyers and accountants for the UK’s richest families said they had been deluged with calls from millionaire and billionaire clients asking for help and advice on moving countries, shifting their fortunes offshore and making early gifts to their children to avoid the Labour leader’s threat to tax all inheritances above £125,000.

The advisers said a Corbyn-led government was viewed as a far greater threat to the wealth and quality of life of the richest 1% than a hard Brexit."

So the Corbyn changes will increase the wealth and quality of life of the 99%.

Do you understand how the offshore industry works. Take someone who has more money than they know what to do with, David Cameron's father for example. He opens a wee company in the Caribbean and transfers in £35m. Note that contrary to popular Daily Express bollocks he could have invested that in Britain, created jobs, taken some risks etc etc, but he didn't, he took it out of Britain. That money then buys shares in companies all over the world. Any dividends earned show up as being the property of that company and as its in the Caribbean they are tax-free. So for David Cameron he looks at the election and thinks, if Corbyn wins I'll pay 25% on those dividends, if Boris wins I'll pay 0% because Boris will let me keep them hidden in the Caribbean. The same for the Barclay Brothers at the Telegraph, Rothmere at the Mail and so on. That's why they hate Corbyn, that's why we have Brexit and these people are not paying tax anyway so what have we lost? Nothing.


If Frank has a heart attack on his round and has to wait 3 hours for an ambulance are you in favour of that? Its what you are voting for


Johnny Vegas has claimed his mum was turned away from A&E after she had to wait three hours for an ambulance to arrive.

The comedian's mother Patricia appears to have been in and out of hospital this week, but tonight the emergency department was "full to capacity".

He took to Twitter to accuse the Conservative government and Prime Minister Boris Johnson of "neglect" and a "blatant drive to privatise" the NHS.

Johnny wrote: "3 hour wait on an ambulance but A&E had to close its doors, full to capacity. Why be angry at the incredible folk working under unbelievable stress?

"I remain grateful, my bitterness belongs to @BorisJohnson @Conservatives at your neglect of our @NHSuk & blatant drive to privatise."

Laffy wrote: We also have ‘full employment’ and record tax receipts.

"Full Employment" doesn't really count for much when the employers aren't paying people enough to actually live on. It's disgraceful how many people in work still have to top up their pay with benefits just to survive. Why are so many businesses still being greedy and hoarding their money rather than paying their staff a fair living wage?

Laffy you've talked about the possibility of rich businessmen leaving the country if taxes on them are too high. Even if they do, is that a problem? If they are that rich then there businesses must be quite profitable. If they leave the country, I'm sure we won't be short of people willing to step up and take over the running of that profitable business.

Kessler

You can’t take businesses off people just because they live in another jurisdiction.This is Britain, not Zimbabwe.

Income has to be earned-there is no money tree

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: We also have ‘full employment’ and record tax receipts.

"Full Employment" doesn't really count for much when the employers aren't paying people enough to actually live on. It's disgraceful how many people in work still have to top up their pay with benefits just to survive. Why are so many businesses still being greedy and hoarding their money rather than paying their staff a fair living wage?

Laffy you've talked about the possibility of rich businessmen leaving the country if taxes on them are too high. Even if they do, is that a problem? If they are that rich then there businesses must be quite profitable. If they leave the country, I'm sure we won't be short of people willing to step up and take over the running of that profitable business.

No one forces anyone to work for the minimum wage. Gain a skill and get a better paid job, simple.

The UK, Government or uncle John Cobly don't owe you anything, you get from life as much as you want, by yourself.

It all depends how bigger bite you want, and if you are willing to paddle or swim.