The Politics Thread

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17 Dec 2019 20:40 #51 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Politics Thread
That and The Road to Wigan Pier-no particular order.

We seem to building a consensus on here-most want the welfare state to be the safety net, not the crutch.
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17 Dec 2019 20:48 #52 by Chilledsilly
Replied by Chilledsilly on topic The Politics Thread
That's boll ocks. With bells on

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17 Dec 2019 21:21 #53 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Politics Thread

Laffy wrote: That and The Road to Wigan Pier-no particular order.

We seem to building a consensus on here-most want the welfare state to be the safety net, not the crutch.


Certainly can't argue with the second part. What pisses me off is how many of your wastrels end up in Scotland.

Let's not forget that Orwell was a committed socialist who fought in Spain for the Marxists. AF is as much about capitalism as it is about communism. Propaganda, the illusion of choice, brainwashing over potential enemies. Orwell said himself that while he did not approve of the Soviet Union he did not know what Stalin could have done differently at that time. AF was translated into over 80 languages after Orwell's death by the CIA who also bought the film rights; it was pushed as anti-Soviet propaganda. Ironic that Orwell stood so strongly against propaganda and yet became a victim of it himself.

The Road to Wigan Pier? The whole second half is about the misconception in Britain of socialism?!!

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17 Dec 2019 23:29 #54 by Bluedazblue
Replied by Bluedazblue on topic The Politics Thread

Markovitch wrote:

Laffy wrote: That and The Road to Wigan Pier-no particular order.

We seem to building a consensus on here-most want the welfare state to be the safety net, not the crutch.


Certainly can't argue with the second part. What pisses me off is how many of your wastrels end up in Scotland.

Let's not forget that Orwell was a committed socialist who fought in Spain for the Marxists.


Not true. He fought for the Republicans against the Fascists.

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18 Dec 2019 00:22 - 18 Dec 2019 05:35 #55 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic The Politics Thread

franksidebottom wrote: Wouldn’t it be good if everyone started to take more responsibility for their own actions? By and large I’m a firm believer that you end up in life where you deserve to end up.
For those who unfortunately have been unable to influence their life the way they had hoped there is the safety net of the welfare state. Unfortunately this was hijacked by the bone-idle a long time ago and is being abused into bankruptcy.


As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.
Last edit: 18 Dec 2019 05:35 by CCU. Reason: Fixed bold type

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18 Dec 2019 04:54 #56 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Politics Thread
Google Orwell in the workers party of Marxist unification. He had to leave Spain after they were outlawed

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18 Dec 2019 06:58 #57 by High Street
Replied by High Street on topic The Politics Thread
So untrue, that he wrote a book about it.
'Homage to Catalonia' George Orwell's personal account of his experiences and observations fighting for the Repiblican Army during the Spanish Civil War

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18 Dec 2019 07:21 #58 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Politics Thread
Even after being cut to ribbons, they oppose Brexit-absolutely pathetic.


www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-will-w...rexit-deal-680b377th

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18 Dec 2019 07:51 #59 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic The Politics Thread
There is no doubt Orwell was a socialist idealist who if alive today would have been a member of Momentum and would have travelled to Venezuela to admire and celebrate the socialist regime. I think though like the Corbynistas he too would have been disconnected from the working classes feeling them to be too aspirational, too protective of their heritage or in the case of the workshy, unfathomable. Orwell was a genius as a writer but a dismal failure as a political activist. Today's left-wing writers like Owen Jones are following in his footsteps.

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18 Dec 2019 09:07 #60 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Politics Thread
For God sake Google it. The Republican army was made up of a series of militias and he fought in one of them. Its in bloody Wikipedia!

Orwell saw before his time the value of propaganda as a way to control the masses. If you look at Labour vs Conservative as a philosophical question it becomes do you want to chase money or do you want to have the basics provided but have less money. If we look at the second option we find that the happiest countries in the world do just that. The US never figures whereas Scandinavia is always top.

The question then becomes if a significant proportion of the population seek happiness over wealth why isn't that reflected in the press. Orwell was an idealist seeking a socialist country, Corbyn is a Marxist looking to raise taxes on those earning 80 grand by £20 a month. Stock phrases repeated. Alan is a scrounger but Philip day who lives in dubai to avoid tax is a risk taking entrepreneurs. If the top half a dozen Internet companies paid their tax we could overfund the NHS.

But anti semitism and those immigrants eh!

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18 Dec 2019 09:15 #61 by topstepwhinger
Replied by topstepwhinger on topic The Politics Thread

Flatcap wrote:

franksidebottom wrote: Wouldn’t it be good if everyone started to take more responsibility for their own actions? By and large I’m a firm believer that you end up in life where you deserve to end up.
For those who unfortunately have been unable to influence their life the way they had hoped there is the safety net of the welfare state. Unfortunately this was hijacked by the bone-idle a long time ago and is being abused into bankruptcy.


As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.


I think the clue was in the words 'by and large'

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18 Dec 2019 09:20 #62 by heilkmoon
Replied by heilkmoon on topic The Politics Thread

topstepwhinger wrote:

Flatcap wrote:
As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.


I think the clue was in the words 'by and large'


What about those who are bi and large through no fault of their own?
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18 Dec 2019 11:24 #63 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic The Politics Thread
C'mon we are all masters of our own destiny. Some want a big bite out of life, some want to nibble the edges.

It would be a boring life if we were all the same.

Like all systems there are some that fall through the net and are not getting the help they need.

Our public services lack good Management and responsibility, but with a system loaded with Policy and Procedure, Work Schemes and Grievances, what chance does a good manager have ?

The best way is to avoid the whole system and look after yourself.

The problems arise when we politicise the whole debate, and pick on soft targets in a system we all contributed to in the first place.

Let's have some transparency, to start, make all drug companies put a retail price on every product.

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18 Dec 2019 11:55 #64 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Politics Thread
Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.

The solution is surely to take the nhs and welfare out of politics and have both run by independent commissions.
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18 Dec 2019 12:00 #65 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Politics Thread
For once I agree with Blair

apple.news/AvPHMXXOERl664PtmbiXK0g

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18 Dec 2019 12:06 #66 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

thesilentone wrote: It would be a boring life if we were all the same.


I don't see anyone suggesting we should all be the same?

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18 Dec 2019 12:17 #67 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The Politics Thread

Laffy wrote: Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.


There is a problem with a small minority of people gaming the welfare system, but the problem is how to address it. Specifically how do you tackle them while ensuring the genuine users are left unaffected? Universal Credit was hailed as a solution but it's been a nightmare and caused massive problems for genuine users of the system, sometimes they don't get paid on time and for people who are already struggling to make ends meet one missed payment can mean disaster.

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18 Dec 2019 13:39 #68 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Laffy wrote: Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.

The solution is surely to take the nhs and welfare out of politics and have both run by independent commissions.


Well a good start would be to demand a substantial deposit from anybody whos national insurance number doesn't bring up 5 years of contributions Why the hell should I be paying to fund the healthcare of somebody whos home is in the deserts of Syria.

The clue is in the name National Heath Service NOT International Health Service.
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18 Dec 2019 13:43 #69 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Laffy wrote: For once I agree with Blair

apple.news/AvPHMXXOERl664PtmbiXK0g


And still not a single potential candidate willing to come out and not only call Corbyn a [censored] but tell momentum they're coming after them

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18 Dec 2019 13:56 #70 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.


There is a problem with a small minority of people gaming the welfare system, but the problem is how to address it. Specifically how do you tackle them while ensuring the genuine users are left unaffected? Universal Credit was hailed as a solution but it's been a nightmare and caused massive problems for genuine users of the system, sometimes they don't get paid on time and for people who are already struggling to make ends meet one missed payment can mean disaster.


Well i.m afraid that UC is here to stay it would now be almost impossible and vastly expensive to unravel in fact it would actually be cheaper just to give all the claimants two weeks extra money to make the transition from fortnightly to monthly payments work.

But my man in the know says there's a very simple solution and that's to put a start date for someones UC in place with defined payment dates but carry on paying the old benefits to the point where it transfers over to UC with no gap or loss of benefits then a month later work out how much they've actually been paid over what they were actually due [ it should be two weeks money but in a lot of cases it's actually less] and then recover it by spreading the repayments/deductions over the next 12 months.
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18 Dec 2019 14:20 #71 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic The Politics Thread
As a disabled person I used to claim working tax credits, disability element, and the system was completely ludicrous. It was based on your previous years earnings and they could be massive changes between years and when i went from a low paid job to a high paid job I could still claim the same amount of tax credits as before and wouldn't take effect to the next year.

I'm coming round to universal credit as its fair. The people complaining are those that are career benefit users as they don't get as much as before. I have a current UC claim as a safety net, because with having a long term illness theres times where I can't work and my hours vary. The employer and yourself if youre self employed send your monthly income and you get what you're entitled to that month. Currently I get £1.38 a month but I know i'll get more if for some reason I can't work during a month - A fair system I think.

At least we’re not Stockport

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18 Dec 2019 14:24 #72 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.


There is a problem with a small minority of people gaming the welfare system, but the problem is how to address it. Specifically how do you tackle them while ensuring the genuine users are left unaffected? Universal Credit was hailed as a solution but it's been a nightmare and caused massive problems for genuine users of the system, sometimes they don't get paid on time and for people who are already struggling to make ends meet one missed payment can mean disaster.


Well i.m afraid that UC is here to stay it would now be almost impossible and vastly expensive to unravel in fact it would actually be cheaper just to give all the claimants two weeks extra money to make the transition from fortnightly to monthly payments work.

But my man in the know says there's a very simple solution and that's to put a start date for someones UC in place with defined payment dates but carry on paying the old benefits to the point where it transfers over to UC with no gap or loss of benefits then a month later work out how much they've actually been paid over what they were actually due [ it should be two weeks money but in a lot of cases it's actually less] and then recover it by spreading the repayments/deductions over the next 12 months.


You're correct NS - the current issue with it is the 5 week wait. It's changing to what you've suggested where housing benefit still continue to be paid until you get your first UC payment.

Off the subject but food banks come into play - I can understand if theres a change in circumstances but the benefit system is fair, I don't understand how food bank usage has shot up so much.

At least we’re not Stockport

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18 Dec 2019 15:14 #73 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Mullen103 wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.


There is a problem with a small minority of people gaming the welfare system, but the problem is how to address it. Specifically how do you tackle them while ensuring the genuine users are left unaffected? Universal Credit was hailed as a solution but it's been a nightmare and caused massive problems for genuine users of the system, sometimes they don't get paid on time and for people who are already struggling to make ends meet one missed payment can mean disaster.


Well i.m afraid that UC is here to stay it would now be almost impossible and vastly expensive to unravel in fact it would actually be cheaper just to give all the claimants two weeks extra money to make the transition from fortnightly to monthly payments work.

But my man in the know says there's a very simple solution and that's to put a start date for someones UC in place with defined payment dates but carry on paying the old benefits to the point where it transfers over to UC with no gap or loss of benefits then a month later work out how much they've actually been paid over what they were actually due [ it should be two weeks money but in a lot of cases it's actually less] and then recover it by spreading the repayments/deductions over the next 12 months.




You're correct NS - the current issue with it is the 5 week wait. It's changing to what you've suggested where housing benefit still continue to be paid until you get your first UC payment.

Off the subject but food banks come into play - I can understand if theres a change in circumstances but the benefit system is fair, I don't understand how food bank usage has shot up so much.


Simple answer 20 years ago there were no food banks so nobody used them Now there are thousands everybody and his dog are in there and why wouldn't they be when it's free. Imagine how busy a pub offering free beer would be.

And while there are organisations like the Trussel Trust and gullible people willing to contribute governments of all persuasions will take advantage in that someone else is providing a safety net so they don't have to.

Until the cuts took effect Lancashire county council used to top up the benefits of anyone who had been sanctioned strictly speaking it was a loan but everyone knew if you sent a letter to the council leader saying thank you they wrote it off. Long gone now of course under austerity and good old Tory council leader Driver
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18 Dec 2019 15:19 #74 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Politics Thread
I agree-the transition has been managed badly but easily sorted.

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18 Dec 2019 15:37 #75 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic The Politics Thread
You're right again NS - 20 years ago they were no food banks but things were much worse income-wise.

I volunteered for a week(yes you can't really take a fair balance in a year) in a food bank, you can't really judge in only a wekk, but we only had 1 genuine customer, the other 2 were providing fake referals.

It was a while ago and i don't know how the referal system works now but i'm now against food banks and think people are taking advantage of them. if people know its there they aren't going to help themselves. Its like giving a gambling addict money after the've lost it each time.

At least we’re not Stockport
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18 Dec 2019 16:05 #76 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic The Politics Thread
The Food bank system is a convenient way for big business to clear it's conscience.

The Supermarkets have monumental amounts of so-called ' waste ' food due to massive over supply which would have ended up in Landfill. So it suits both them and the Government of the day to re-distribute it to the needy. And how The Trussell Trust have exploited it !

A CEO on over £80k a year, with a pledge from the Government to pour even more into this project.

The actual number of food parcels distributed continues grows faster than the numbers who use it as they quickly work out how to get multiple numbers above there allowance.

In many cases ' shopping ' for neighbours and making a few bob to subsidise the drug trade. When the wheels fall off, and they will, it will be the real needy who suffer the most.
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18 Dec 2019 17:09 #77 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

thesilentone wrote: The Food bank system is a convenient way for big business to clear it's conscience.

The Supermarkets have monumental amounts of so-called ' waste ' food due to massive over supply which would have ended up in Landfill. So it suits both them and the Government of the day to re-distribute it to the needy. And how The Trussell Trust have exploited it !

A CEO on over £80k a year, with a pledge from the Government to pour even more into this project.

The actual number of food parcels distributed continues grows faster than the numbers who use it as they quickly work out how to get multiple numbers above there allowance.

In many cases ' shopping ' for neighbours and making a few bob to subsidise the drug trade. When the wheels fall off, and they will, it will be the real needy who suffer the most.


A couple of years ago around this time of the year my next-door neighbour [ a semi disabled widow in her early sixties ]Who to be honest we.d never really got on with [mainly due to our parties and shoots etc] got into some shit with her benefits and by the time we found out about it shed been without any cash for a month we set up a couple of things for her one of which was the local food bank. It works a bit differently around here once you are referred they come to you with a box full of stuff and they then sit down with you and make a list and next time they come they try to match up what they have with what's on your list. She invited us round to see what the first box contained and to be honest, I .ve never seen such a load of crap in my life.

So my Doris insisted we take her down to Tesco we did and spent 150 quid its turned out to be one of the best 150 quids I .ve spent in my life. She offered to pay it back when she got sorted but i.d noticed what a great job she did with the plants and flowers outside her house so I said you do our front as well and we.ll call it quits. I was expecting a one-year thing but here 3 summers later and she's still at it.

But as I say I found out quite a lot about our local food bank operation. They actually go out and buy certain things that they need that people don't donate which surprised me a bit and that the guys that do the deliveries are actually paid by a different charity [ back then some of them were actually guys on the dole and in a supposed work placement ] and unlike most foodbank, operations they do actually distribute fresh stuff that the supermarkets give them even putting their own use by dates on and I thought that somebody who got their feet under the table with them could almost give them a shopping list each week. But i.m told they're actually quite ruthless if there are rumours of people taking the piss.

But the whole charity support thing round here is pretty substantial led it seems by a Charity called the Maundy Trust who seem to own half the properties on one of Accys main shopping streets using them when not let out to tenants as second-hand shops run by people who haven't a clue about the value of things I bought a mixing desk and a box full of sound eqpt for 80 quid [ and yes I did make it up to a hundred as I thought it was ridiculously cheap ] and hey presto i sold the lot on e.bay for almost 5 times that in less than two weeks.
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18 Dec 2019 17:25 #78 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic The Politics Thread

Flatcap wrote:

franksidebottom wrote: Wouldn’t it be good if everyone started to take more responsibility for their own actions? By and large I’m a firm believer that you end up in life where you deserve to end up.
For those who unfortunately have been unable to influence their life the way they had hoped there is the safety net of the welfare state. Unfortunately this was hijacked by the bone-idle a long time ago and is being abused into bankruptcy.


As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.


You do know what ‘by and large’ means? Not everyone but in general, and there are always exceptions to the rule. You mention the disabled, who do you think I was referring to in my second paragraph?

Would be great if folk could read the full post and understand it before replying, it would save themselves from looking daft.

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003
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18 Dec 2019 17:34 #79 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic The Politics Thread
Typical reply from an "i'm all right Jack.

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18 Dec 2019 17:53 #80 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic The Politics Thread
It’s a reply from someone who’s sick to death of hearing how badly done to people are in life whilst totally ignoring the fact they’ve [censored] their life up all by themselves.

Nobody seems to take responsibility anymore - reckless spending, not prioritising, making stupid decisions, generally being irresponsible - then when it all goes tits-up it’s someone else’s fault, usually the government. They think society owes them something. If you want anything in life go and earn it rather than demanding it.

I genuinely feel for the people who the welfare state was set up to protect; the disabled, the infirm, the unfortunate. Their ‘safety net’ has been hijacked by the dossers, those who can’t be arsed to contribute, the bone-idle. In an effort to combat this trend genuine people inevitably get caught up in the crossfire, the authorities shouldn’t be chastised for this, the hijackers should.

Unfortunately it’s now a career choice to be on benefits and as future generations see their parents choosing this path they won’t know any better and the trend continues.

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003
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18 Dec 2019 18:23 #81 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic The Politics Thread
I tend to agree with what Franks been saying on this subject a lot.

People have to realise there’s no easy fix in life and there’s no easy way out. Too many people expect things on a plate and it doesn’t happen like that.

I had a gambling addiction, through no fault but my own (yes they were influences) but no one held a gun to my head and told me to do it. I was 24 in 18k worth of debt, the only person to sort out the situation was myself and I worked bloody hard to sort out my addiction and pay off the debt without help from anyone and I’m bloody chuffed I did.

But it makes me sick those that expect everything, won’t work, won’t help themselves want want want - you’ve got to work hard for it!

Franks right again that the people suffering are those in genuine need the disabled, widowed and children in poverty IE people in situation through no fault of their own.

At least we’re not Stockport
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18 Dec 2019 18:30 #82 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Politics Thread
Did you see Denise Coates pay packet for the year that was announced today at £277 million?. Great stuff eh apart from the fact they restrict your account if you look like you might win a few quid.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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18 Dec 2019 18:34 #83 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

franksidebottom wrote: It’s a reply from someone who’s sick to death of hearing how badly done to people are in life whilst totally ignoring the fact they’ve [censored] their life up all by themselves.

Nobody seems to take responsibility anymore - reckless spending, not prioritising, making stupid decisions, generally being irresponsible - then when it all goes tits-up it’s someone else’s fault, usually the government. They think society owes them something. If you want anything in life go and earn it rather than demanding it.

I genuinely feel for the people who the welfare state was set up to protect; the disabled, the infirm, the unfortunate. Their ‘safety net’ has been hijacked by the dossers, those who can’t be arsed to contribute, the bone-idle. In an effort to combat this trend genuine people inevitably get caught up in the crossfire, the authorities shouldn’t be chastised for this, the hijackers should.

Unfortunately it’s now a career choice to be on benefits and as future generations see their parents choosing this path they won’t know any better and the trend continues.


I.m not sure where you're seeing millions of people abusing the system and those that are we as good as given the green light to do so by the decision by Cameron in 2012 that it was cheaper to pay out those who managed to wriggle thru the net than it was to pay for the investigators who were employed to weed them out [ along with the millions spent on tv and print advertising ] at the same time benefit sanction targets were put in place [often on genuine claimants who made a simple mistake] to recover the cash that was lost to fraud.

About a year ago a new dept of investigators was set operating nationally not to go after the guy who may be trading on e.bay to supplement his benefits but to target the multiple claims fraudsters and guess where the vast majority of them lead back to? Yes, you got it that hotbed of British benefit fraud, Laos in Nigeria.

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18 Dec 2019 18:42 #84 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Politics Thread

Mullen103 wrote: You're right again NS - 20 years ago they were no food banks but things were much worse income-wise.

I volunteered for a week(yes you can't really take a fair balance in a year) in a food bank, you can't really judge in only a wekk, but we only had 1 genuine customer, the other 2 were providing fake referals.

It was a while ago and i don't know how the referal system works now but i'm now against food banks and think people are taking advantage of them. if people know its there they aren't going to help themselves. Its like giving a gambling addict money after the've lost it each time.


As far as I'm aware a person can be referred 3 times, officially, to a food bank by agencies such as social services, the Law Centre, Citizens advice ...the food bank should keep records to stop abuse.
I heard a story that some people go with a list of what they want.

As to the increase in FBs....build it and they will come as I have said before. I used to give occasionally ..not anymore. Maybe food vouchers given out by the DSS is the answer for those waiting for UC for instance. Too many chancers out there

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18 Dec 2019 18:54 #85 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Politics Thread
That’s the spirit Seesaw. Wish I’d read that before donating to the cfm Christmas appeal last week.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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18 Dec 2019 19:01 #86 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

franksidebottom wrote: It’s a reply from someone who’s sick to death of hearing how badly done to people are in life whilst totally ignoring the fact they’ve [censored] their life up all by themselves.

Nobody seems to take responsibility anymore - reckless spending, not prioritising, making stupid decisions, generally being irresponsible - then when it all goes tits-up it’s someone else’s fault, usually the government. They think society owes them something. If you want anything in life go and earn it rather than demanding it.

I genuinely feel for the people who the welfare state was set up to protect; the disabled, the infirm, the unfortunate. Their ‘safety net’ has been hijacked by the dossers, those who can’t be arsed to contribute, the bone-idle. In an effort to combat this trend genuine people inevitably get caught up in the crossfire, the authorities shouldn’t be chastised for this, the hijackers should.

Unfortunately it’s now a career choice to be on benefits and as future generations see their parents choosing this path they won’t know any better and the trend continues.


I.m not sure where you're seeing millions of people abusing the system and those that are we as good as given the green light to do so by the decision by Cameron in 2012 that it was cheaper to pay out those who managed to wriggle thru the net than it was to pay for the investigators who were employed to weed them out [ along with the millions spent on tv and print advertising ] at the same time benefit sanction targets were put in place [often on genuine claimants who made a simple mistake] to recover the cash that was lost to fraud.

About a year ago a new dept of investigators was set operating nationally not to go after the guy who may be trading on e.bay to supplement his benefits but to target the multiple claims fraudsters and guess where the vast majority of them lead back to? Yes, you got it that hotbed of British benefit fraud, Laos in Nigeria.


If you're going to freeze benefits for 10 years and reduce the rent allowance percentages on top of freezing the local rent allowance while private landlords were allowed to increase their rents how the hell else are people going to meet even the minimum amount needed to simply live.

I.d, like to see you manage to live on paying out what genuine claimants have to from their 75 quid a week in fact id, go as far as to say that if people don't do whatever they need to supplement their benefits it's physically impossible for them to survive.

There's a charity in Manchester who find accommodation for homeless people and they have to give every one of the people they find a home for another £75 a week on top of their benefits just to enable them to live and survive and they showed that the absolute essentials of life that you cant avoid take up way more than the £75 the government give them.

So yes clamp down on the professional scroungers but then make your mind up and either pay benefit at a level that allows them to live or let them supplement it in their own way actually saving the country billions but you really can't have it both ways.

My solution is a two-tier payment where you're given the first £75 but the second £75 is given as a loan repayable by a surcharge on your future NI payments but of course as i.m sure you're about to tell me that would only encourage more of your scroungers to jump onto the gravy train.
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18 Dec 2019 19:28 #87 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Politics Thread

Dancingbear wrote: That’s the spirit Seesaw. Wish I’d read that before donating to the cfm Christmas appeal last week.


Each to his own db....am talking food banks. Get down to your local FB and see it in action.

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18 Dec 2019 19:33 #88 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Politics Thread

Dancingbear wrote: That’s the spirit Seesaw. Wish I’d read that before donating to the cfm Christmas appeal last week.


Nice one DB - was it a guilty conscience though for entering the cash call register every day for the last month :)
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18 Dec 2019 19:51 #89 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic The Politics Thread
It's always the few who spoil it for the majority.

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18 Dec 2019 20:05 #90 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic The Politics Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

thesilentone wrote: The Food bank system is a convenient way for big business to clear it's conscience.

The Supermarkets have monumental amounts of so-called ' waste ' food due to massive over supply which would have ended up in Landfill. So it suits both them and the Government of the day to re-distribute it to the needy. And how The Trussell Trust have exploited it !

A CEO on over £80k a year, with a pledge from the Government to pour even more into this project.

The actual number of food parcels distributed continues grows faster than the numbers who use it as they quickly work out how to get multiple numbers above there allowance.

In many cases ' shopping ' for neighbours and making a few bob to subsidise the drug trade. When the wheels fall off, and they will, it will be the real needy who suffer the most.


A couple of years ago around this time of the year my next-door neighbour [ a semi disabled widow in her early sixties ]Who to be honest we.d never really got on with [mainly due to our parties and shoots etc] got into some shit with her benefits and by the time we found out about it shed been without any cash for a month we set up a couple of things for her one of which was the local food bank. It works a bit differently around here once you are referred they come to you with a box full of stuff and they then sit down with you and make a list and next time they come they try to match up what they have with what's on your list. She invited us round to see what the first box contained and to be honest, I .ve never seen such a load of crap in my life.

So my Doris insisted we take her down to Tesco we did and spent 150 quid its turned out to be one of the best 150 quids I .ve spent in my life. She offered to pay it back when she got sorted but i.d noticed what a great job she did with the plants and flowers outside her house so I said you do our front as well and we.ll call it quits. I was expecting a one-year thing but here 3 summers later and she's still at it.

But as I say I found out quite a lot about our local food bank operation. They actually go out and buy certain things that they need that people don't donate which surprised me a bit and that the guys that do the deliveries are actually paid by a different charity [ back then some of them were actually guys on the dole and in a supposed work placement ] and unlike most foodbank, operations they do actually distribute fresh stuff that the supermarkets give them even putting their own use by dates on and I thought that somebody who got their feet under the table with them could almost give them a shopping list each week. But i.m told they're actually quite ruthless if there are rumours of people taking the piss.

But the whole charity support thing round here is pretty substantial led it seems by a Charity called the Maundy Trust who seem to own half the properties on one of Accys main shopping streets using them when not let out to tenants as second-hand shops run by people who haven't a clue about the value of things I bought a mixing desk and a box full of sound eqpt for 80 quid [ and yes I did make it up to a hundred as I thought it was ridiculously cheap ] and hey presto i sold the lot on e.bay for almost 5 times that in less than two weeks.


Long before the Trussell Trust came to be, the existing food-banks did a great job. They got to know all there regulars, who the leg swingers and chancer's were and managed them well. Then in the same town sometimes the Trussell Trust opened up and the job went to rat-shxt.

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18 Dec 2019 20:15 #91 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Politics Thread

munchymagic wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: That’s the spirit Seesaw. Wish I’d read that before donating to the cfm Christmas appeal last week.


Nice one DB - was it a guilty conscience though for entering the cash call register every day for the last month :)


Nah they used to do toy collections at work and I used to buy some but I think they used to get similar stuff for certain age groups and nothing for other ones so by doing it this way they can buy what they need. I’m sure loads of people do the same :)

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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18 Dec 2019 21:17 #92 by High Street
Replied by High Street on topic The Politics Thread
Not strictly food bank related, my mother in law manages the local Sally shop. She used to get all sorts in, asking for cereal, tins of soup, beans etc.
They brought in a rule that you had to be referred to get a food parcel, low and behold, shes not given anything out since August.

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18 Dec 2019 22:15 #93 by Laffy

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18 Dec 2019 22:27 #94 by Dentonholmersimpson
Replied by Dentonholmersimpson on topic The Politics Thread

Laffy wrote: Nice- not

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/18/...aring-loyalty-queen/


If I am not mistaken, did our former Mayor and RMT representitive not do the same?

On a similar issue the civil trial of one of the Hyde Park bombers today brings back memories of how barbaric the IRA were.

Pleased we now have a prime minister who would stand up against terrorists, not stand up for them.

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18 Dec 2019 22:44 #95 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Politics Thread
I bet the reaction by the other EU nations was one of horror after last Thursdays election.

They need us so once they see the perks and benefits that we will reap being out of the EU there will be rumblings of why they should be in it.

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19 Dec 2019 00:55 #96 by Bluedazblue
Replied by Bluedazblue on topic The Politics Thread

munchymagic wrote: I bet the reaction by the other EU nations was one of horror after last Thursdays election.

They need us so once they see the perks and benefits that we will reap being out of the EU there will be rumblings of why they should be in it.


I think the EU is at a pivotal point.

It has to address how to negotiate with the UK now that Brexit it is going to happen, bearing in mind that a punitive deal will hurt both the EU and the UK, whilst at the same time there is increasing EU scepticism in other EU member states. Brexit could cause a domino effect of countries wanting to leave if the EU doesn't get the balance right.

I've always said that whilst the EU has expanded for the last few decades, there would come a point when it would start to contract, as countries start to ask whether the negatives outweigh the benefits.
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19 Dec 2019 03:29 #97 by cufcmike
Replied by cufcmike on topic The Politics Thread

Dancingbear wrote: Did you see Denise Coates pay packet for the year that was announced today at £277 million?. Great stuff eh apart from the fact they restrict your account if you look like you might win a few quid.


In fairness Bet365 are very relaxed when it comes to restrictions... They're one of the only ones I'm allowed to bet freely with nowadays. And their app is far easier to use than anyone else's.

IMO a bookie should be entitled to as much profit as they like, so long as they don't intervene with customers who might lose them money...

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19 Dec 2019 04:29 #98 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Politics Thread

Bluedazblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: I bet the reaction by the other EU nations was one of horror after last Thursdays election.

They need us so once they see the perks and benefits that we will reap being out of the EU there will be rumblings of why they should be in it.


I think the EU is at a pivotal point.

It has to address how to negotiate with the UK now that Brexit it is going to happen, bearing in mind that a punitive deal will hurt both the EU and the UK, whilst at the same time there is increasing EU scepticism in other EU member states. Brexit could cause a domino effect of countries wanting to leave if the EU doesn't get the balance right.

I've always said that whilst the EU has expanded for the last few decades, there would come a point when it would start to contract, as countries start to ask whether the negatives outweigh the benefits.


Aye wouldn't it be funny if all the original members [censored] off and left the Krauts to fund all the former commies.

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19 Dec 2019 06:52 #99 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic The Politics Thread
Hilarious

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19 Dec 2019 07:55 #100 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Politics Thread
Support for the EU is very high across Europe, its only here that there are issues. No one else is considering leaving.

Support for EU membership above 80% in most member states amid Brexit mess

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/...c-poll-a8888126.html

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