Coronavirus

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26 Mar 2020 11:08 #1201 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Coronavirus

CarlisleWhite wrote:

CCU wrote:

Really hope this is not an anomaly, although it probably is, and the trend is down.



Like you, I also hope this a trend but I don't think so. it is concerning that the NHS has ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson plus the others who are supposedly making them.
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26 Mar 2020 11:10 #1202 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Coronavirus
The stress and worry about this virus and all the things that go with it will kill many times over the number of people the virus kills

No football is [censored] killing me

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26 Mar 2020 11:44 #1203 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Coronavirus

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

HuntingHorn wrote:

nobbyblue wrote: Why would you get an Mot before it’s due? It’s a six month extension to your present MOT certificate. Mine for example is now valid until 21st November rather than 21st May.

This going to be the case for the next 12 months.

You don’t need to get a car it’s first MOT until it’s 3 years 6 months old now rather 3 years.


Way I understand it is that it’s a 6 month rolling extension to your current MOT. Reviewed as and when applicable.
Car should be in decent repair, else leave it at home (although that’s a grey area...)
Once it’s all over and your MOT is expired you’ll need to get it tested and a new certificate.

Only reason I know is my car and work van were booked in for MOT yesterday and the garage closed it’s doors because people wouldn’t keep their distance and we’re following the mechanics round the garage....


Great to see yet another day of a Self employed help package being put off until tomorrow....
Interesting reading other posts. I’m not sure any buffer savings are going to stand up well to this if it drags on for 3-4months or longer without much help.
We have savings as we need to be able to pay thousands out at the drop of a hat to repair machinery but I’m worrying that absolute zero income and people with direct debits set up that are now uncontactable is going to chew through that.
Then there’s the issue of future relationships with suppliers, if you stuff them for payment on things you bought and owe for how do you return to normal once this goes away?
I’ll certainly remember who screws me over during this.
Our landlords initially seemed helpful but they’ve vanished off the earth now, no contact anymore and we didn’t get any decision of an agreement for our rent...
It’s an almighty mess for sure. So much to think about.


But that's the point you won't have to once it's sorted out they.ll have to do what they've done with the PAYE scheme and backdate it so its not a case of not getting it just being patient using the cash that you have till then.

Well, the first thing I did was cancel all our DD.s and standing orders. advice i.m given is if you e.mail anyone you owe money to put CONAVIRUS in capital letters and tell them you.ll be back in touch in 3 months when you have a better idea when you might be able to start paying them again there's not much they can do about it and most of the replies we.ve had have been standard replies basically just confirming receipt of our e.mails and nothing more. Notable exception as I said being Scottish Power but they're going to get a good shafting once everyone starts bypassing their leccy meters so I guess you can call that Karma.

Basically, if your business has no money coming in you need to ensure it has none going out either and i wouldn't worry too much about your landlords if you stop paying them they.ll just stop paying someone they owe and at the end of that chain is the government and it seems Boris and his mates aren't too bothered about that given the decisions that they've taken.


What's the point of all that Barry. You'll still have to pay these eventually.

And considering you are man of considerable means I would have thought you would have paid all your bills and just said dam their impudence.

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26 Mar 2020 11:56 #1204 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Coronavirus
It’s an unbelievably difficult decision for business owners to make though some like Tim Martin make huge mistakes.

I’m a director of a printing business with 200 employees and the sales are down 90pc-the obvious solution is to furlough staff and try and make up the 20pc.But some businesses simply don’t have the cash to do this or keep the lights on.The landlord on this one is being a [censored] but he can’t evict us under the new eviction rule.

If we knew when this horror will end, we can plan-sadly we can’t at this point in time.

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26 Mar 2020 12:12 #1205 by thetashkentterror
Replied by thetashkentterror on topic Coronavirus

thesilentone wrote:

CarlisleWhite wrote:

CCU wrote:

Really hope this is not an anomaly, although it probably is, and the trend is down.



Like you, I also hope this a trend but I don't think so. it is concerning that the NHS has ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson plus the others who are supposedly making them.


Someone needs to fill the vacuum.
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26 Mar 2020 12:22 #1206 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Coronavirus

Laffy wrote: It’s an unbelievably difficult decision for business owners to make though some like Tim Martin make huge mistakes.

I’m a director of a printing business with 200 employees and the sales are down 90pc-the obvious solution is to furlough staff and try and make up the 20pc.But some businesses simply don’t have the cash to do this or keep the lights on.The landlord on this one is being a [censored] but he can’t evict us under the new eviction rule.

If we knew when this horror will end, we can plan-sadly we can’t at this point in time.


Currently a massive issue in the Construction Trade as Principle Contractors impose penalty clauses as sub-contractors withdraw labour. The 'chickens will come home to roost ' in future as sub-contractors refuse to quote or work for these Companies.

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26 Mar 2020 15:23 #1207 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

nobbyblue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

thesilentone wrote: They can easily afford it.

Hourly paid staff cost them around £500,000,000 per year, they've banked nearly a quarter of a Billion in the last 2 years alone.

The man is a dog...........


You clearly have no knowledge whatsoever of the margins in the pub trade they made 79 million profit last year and we're planning to spend way more than that on new projects, hotels refurbishments and buying back property leases.

Nobody is taking these peoples money away only asking them to take a little pain like the rest of us and wait till the govt pays out.

But if they don't like the bloke they're working for they can as Martin said always piss off and find themselves a better job somewhere else.

I wouldn't work for Wetherspoons for all the tea in China for a number of reasons but if you’re ou can't see that having those 40k jobs still there at the end of it isnt worth a few barmen going skint for a month i give up.


I’ll certainly be giving Witherspoons and Lloyd’s a very wide berth after this is over.


You'd better add Carluccios to your list then and the hundreds of other pub and hospitality companies who will do similar things in the next few weeks. My money is on Thwaites being one of the first brewery/pubcos to hit serious trouble as they admitted recently they rely heavily on their rent roll for their day to day cash flow.

www.bighospitality.co.uk/Article/2020/03...campaign=26-Mar-2020

Btw the Wetherspoons issue has been sorted for the minute as they have received an assurance from the treasury that they will receive their first money from HMRC no later than April 30th and on that basis, they have agreed to fund the 80% payments but have given the treasury a warning that if it's as much as a day late they will pull the plug on their involvement in the scheme.

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26 Mar 2020 15:38 #1208 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

nobbyblue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

HuntingHorn wrote:

nobbyblue wrote: Why would you get an Mot before it’s due? It’s a six month extension to your present MOT certificate. Mine for example is now valid until 21st November rather than 21st May.

This going to be the case for the next 12 months.

You don’t need to get a car it’s first MOT until it’s 3 years 6 months old now rather 3 years.


Way I understand it is that it’s a 6 month rolling extension to your current MOT. Reviewed as and when applicable.
Car should be in decent repair, else leave it at home (although that’s a grey area...)
Once it’s all over and your MOT is expired you’ll need to get it tested and a new certificate.

Only reason I know is my car and work van were booked in for MOT yesterday and the garage closed it’s doors because people wouldn’t keep their distance and we’re following the mechanics round the garage....


Great to see yet another day of a Self employed help package being put off until tomorrow....
Interesting reading other posts. I’m not sure any buffer savings are going to stand up well to this if it drags on for 3-4months or longer without much help.
We have savings as we need to be able to pay thousands out at the drop of a hat to repair machinery but I’m worrying that absolute zero income and people with direct debits set up that are now uncontactable is going to chew through that.
Then there’s the issue of future relationships with suppliers, if you stuff them for payment on things you bought and owe for how do you return to normal once this goes away?
I’ll certainly remember who screws me over during this.
Our landlords initially seemed helpful but they’ve vanished off the earth now, no contact anymore and we didn’t get any decision of an agreement for our rent...
It’s an almighty mess for sure. So much to think about.


But that's the point you won't have to once it's sorted out they.ll have to do what they've done with the PAYE scheme and backdate it so its not a case of not getting it just being patient using the cash that you have till then.

Well, the first thing I did was cancel all our DD.s and standing orders. advice i.m given is if you e.mail anyone you owe money to put CONAVIRUS in capital letters and tell them you.ll be back in touch in 3 months when you have a better idea when you might be able to start paying them again there's not much they can do about it and most of the replies we.ve had have been standard replies basically just confirming receipt of our e.mails and nothing more. Notable exception as I said being Scottish Power but they're going to get a good shafting once everyone starts bypassing their leccy meters so I guess you can call that Karma.

Basically, if your business has no money coming in you need to ensure it has none going out either and i wouldn't worry too much about your landlords if you stop paying them they.ll just stop paying someone they owe and at the end of that chain is the government and it seems Boris and his mates aren't too bothered about that given the decisions that they've taken.


What's the point of all that Barry. You'll still have to pay these eventually.

And considering you are man of considerable means I would have thought you would have paid all your bills and just said dam their impudence.



Why should I though?

Although the first day of our new business model got off to a flyer yesterday. No interference from plod and premium rates achieved.

But the breakdown in law and order has definitely started apparently the price of drugs on the street has gone thru the floor, licenced premises are being broken into right left and centre and just up from us 10k of valuable metal stolen from the East Lancs Railway over the weekend

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26 Mar 2020 15:42 #1209 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic Coronavirus
An interesting topic on immunity from America.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/can-y...Jqr8?ocid=spartandhp

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26 Mar 2020 15:44 #1210 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic Coronavirus

thesilentone wrote:

CarlisleWhite wrote:

CCU wrote:

Really hope this is not an anomaly, although it probably is, and the trend is down.



Like you, I also hope this a trend but I don't think so. it is concerning that the NHS has ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson plus the others who are supposedly making them.


It is usually three weeks after admittance to hospital that someone dies from the virus, so there is a time lag between admittances, positive identification and deaths

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26 Mar 2020 16:21 #1211 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

Flatcap wrote: An interesting topic on immunity from America.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/can-y...Jqr8?ocid=spartandhp


In the absence of an inoculation anytime soon developing immunity and using to it suppress the virus is the only option and unlike Boris current plans it has an end game.

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26 Mar 2020 16:38 #1212 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Coronavirus
Yesterday's low figure due to change in death numbers cut off time.
Add today's and divide by 2 for more accurate reading.

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26 Mar 2020 16:52 #1213 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Coronavirus
What figures should we publish any thoughts.

People who have died from Coronavirus

People who have died from something else but have Coronavirus

Or both.

I'm in the route cause of death being Coronavirus rather than the other two tbh.

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26 Mar 2020 16:56 #1214 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Coronavirus
An expert on sudden death called Kate Mccann, who would have believed that?

Good to see ventilator makers being ignored while Dyson and jcb get the contracts. The crony virus as it's now being called

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26 Mar 2020 17:14 #1215 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic Coronavirus
How do you know ventilator manufacturers are being ignored?

They don't like it up 'em!

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26 Mar 2020 17:26 #1216 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic Coronavirus

Markovitch wrote: An expert on sudden death called Kate Mccann, who would have believed that?

Good to see ventilator makers being ignored while Dyson and jcb get the contracts. The crony virus as it's now being called



They give big lumps of cash to the Tories and Boris, and that's the way the game works, or hadn't you heard ?

If not, check back and see who got the financial shambles that is the Cumberland Infirmary PFI contract from Blair and Martlew.
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26 Mar 2020 17:29 #1217 by thesilentone
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Markovitch wrote: An expert on sudden death called Kate Mccann, who would have believed that?

Good to see ventilator makers being ignored while Dyson and jcb get the contracts. The crony virus as it's now being called



FAKE NEWS AGAIN !!!

www.ft.com/content/51ac1c14-6bb1-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

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26 Mar 2020 17:45 #1218 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Coronavirus
He’s a funny little lad that chancellor but he’s quite impressive!

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26 Mar 2020 18:11 #1219 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Coronavirus
Reason yesterdays figure was low (A thread):


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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26 Mar 2020 18:12 #1220 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Coronavirus
And the up to date figures just out:


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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26 Mar 2020 18:22 #1221 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Coronavirus

CCU wrote: And the up to date figures just out:


Average of approx 80 each day wonder how this compares to Italy?

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26 Mar 2020 18:33 #1222 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

Alan wrote: What figures should we publish any thoughts.

People who have died from Coronavirus

People who have died from something else but have Coronavirus

Or both.

I'm in the route cause of death being Coronavirus rather than the other two tbh.


They definitely need to start publishing the not just the cumulative total number of infected people but also that number minus the people who have come thru it and are now fit again. And I would say for example there were say 60 deaths today of which 58 were in either the over 70/existing conditions category.

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26 Mar 2020 18:33 #1223 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Coronavirus
Sounding like Urban here :-)
We are now at a point where Italy were on 9th/10th March

Looking like a lower trajectory is more than likely fingers crossed.
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26 Mar 2020 18:44 #1224 by bluebry
Replied by bluebry on topic Coronavirus

Markovitch wrote: An expert on sudden death called Kate Mccann, who would have believed that?

Good to see ventilator makers being ignored while Dyson and jcb get the contracts. The crony virus as it's now being called


I hardly think ventilator manufactures are being ignored.
The reason Dyson and JCB are getting the contracts are because they can make them a lot faster and have a hell of a lot more capacity to make them, normal manufactures will still be making them rest assured.

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26 Mar 2020 18:50 #1225 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Coronavirus
Correct-another item of fake news from Marko

I know JCB well through Hyperdrive-they have just stood down their entire workforce under the furlough procedure but have enormous engineering and manufacturing capability.Likewise Dyson

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26 Mar 2020 19:04 #1226 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic Coronavirus

Alan wrote:

CCU wrote: And the up to date figures just out:


Average of approx 80 each day wonder how this compares to Italy?


Not sure, but on that 14 day comparison thing that’s been used, they were on 1016 compared to our 578...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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26 Mar 2020 19:29 #1227 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Coronavirus
Boris Johnson blames 'communication error' for missing EU coronavirus ventilators scheme
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/26/...navirus-ventilators/


UK firm lambasts government over delay after offering 5,000 ventilators
www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/uk-firm-l...ing-5000-ventilators

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26 Mar 2020 19:29 #1228 by Flatcap
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bluebry wrote:

Markovitch wrote: An expert on sudden death called Kate Mccann, who would have believed that?

Good to see ventilator makers being ignored while Dyson and jcb get the contracts. The crony virus as it's now being called


I hardly think ventilator manufactures are being ignored.
The reason Dyson and JCB are getting the contracts are because they can make them a lot faster and have a hell of a lot more capacity to make them, normal manufactures will still be making them rest assured.


Before this crisis broke there were no mechanical ventilator manufacturers in this country. Instead they were bought from countries such as France, Germany and the USA. Those countries needed a lot of ventilators as well and understandably the health services in their own country get priority.

Which is why the call came for companies in this country to start manufacturing them.
This shows up the riks of relying on foreign countries to make stuff for us.
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26 Mar 2020 19:33 #1229 by Urban Designer
Replied by Urban Designer on topic Coronavirus
Northernsoul - I does tell you on here:

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Active Cases (10,945), Total recovered: 135, Intensive Care: 163.

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26 Mar 2020 19:33 #1230 by Urban Designer
Replied by Urban Designer on topic Coronavirus
Northernsoul - It does tell you on here:

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Active Cases (10,945), Total recovered: 135, Intensive Care: 163.

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26 Mar 2020 19:42 #1231 by markredfox73
Replied by markredfox73 on topic Coronavirus
Marko there was a chap on newsnight last night talking about his brit based company providing ventilators...not just big named stuff as you may have seen.like dyson...but the more making them thats a good thing?

Sent from my MRD-LX1 using Tapatalk
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26 Mar 2020 19:44 #1232 by Yorkie Blue
Replied by Yorkie Blue on topic Coronavirus

Flatcap wrote:

bluebry wrote:

Markovitch wrote: An expert on sudden death called Kate Mccann, who would have believed that?

Good to see ventilator makers being ignored while Dyson and jcb get the contracts. The crony virus as it's now being called


I hardly think ventilator manufactures are being ignored.
The reason Dyson and JCB are getting the contracts are because they can make them a lot faster and have a hell of a lot more capacity to make them, normal manufactures will still be making them rest assured.


Before this crisis broke there were no mechanical ventilator manufacturers in this country. Instead they were bought from countries such as France, Germany and the USA. Those countries needed a lot of ventilators as well and understandably the health services in their own country get priority.

Which is why the call came for companies in this country to start manufacturing them.
This shows up the riks of relying on foreign countries to make stuff for us.



Most ventilators produced in recent times use complex electronics as part of the operation of the ventilator, the electronics often sourced from China.
The older type of mechanical pneumatic Nuffield ventilator, used extensively throughout the NHS, was a far simpler beast, requiring only an air and oxygen supply, and I believe was made in Britain. I`d guess this is the type that is now being made.

Stay safe, stay healthy all.

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26 Mar 2020 20:09 #1233 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic Coronavirus
I can't see why , at this time of crisis, why anyone can seriously start bitching about where the much required ventilators either come from or by whom they are made ?

Some folk have strange agendas

They don't like it up 'em!
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26 Mar 2020 20:10 #1234 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Coronavirus
All that clapping looked a bit dodgy on telly. People standing a bit too close for my liking!

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26 Mar 2020 20:11 #1235 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

Urban Designer wrote: Northernsoul - I does tell you on here:

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Active Cases (10,945), Total recovered: 135, Intensive Care: 163.


Do you not realise what a pile of shite that 135 figure is ?

It's simply not possible given that there are only 2 possible outcomes after say 14 days Death or Recovered [ yes there may be a very small number still under treatment but the average hospital stay for virus treatment is just 9 days ] and if your figure for intensive care is correct then I don't know what the panic is all about.

I really think you should stop looking at these sites that are clearly just pulling figures out of thin air. Your time would be much better employed watching some decent porn.
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26 Mar 2020 20:14 #1236 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

nobbyblue wrote: All that clapping looked a bit dodgy on telly. People standing a bit too close for my liking!


So what did you make of the self-employed announcement then Nobby ?

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26 Mar 2020 20:30 #1237 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Coronavirus
Aye it wasn’t bad. Start of June before any payments are forthcoming though. Good job I’m loaded or I would still be a bit worried.

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26 Mar 2020 20:31 #1238 by nobbyblue
Replied by nobbyblue on topic Coronavirus

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26 Mar 2020 21:01 #1239 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic Coronavirus
Good to see some IT companies taking the opportunity to update their products

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26 Mar 2020 21:02 #1240 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

nobbyblue wrote: Aye it wasn’t bad. Start of June before any payments are forthcoming though. Good job I’m loaded or I would still be a bit worried.


Fraid I have to disagree it's a typical government plan 10 times more complicated than it needs to be

I read tonite that they have the details of 4.5m of the estimated 5.5m self-employed people including their bank account details so why not just stick the seven and a half grand straight into each of those bank accounts and then work out what each person was actually due and what they weren't a year down the line once its all over and reclaim any of that money by increasing their tax codes for the next five years Just put a pretty draconian penalty on it for anyone found to have abused it and you'd cut the abuse virtually to zero.

Then all you need is a couple of dedicated bodies in each jobcentre to who anybody who hadn't received their money by a certain date to allow those people to present what proof of self-employment that they have they would then be given an instant decision as to whether they qualify or not if yes they get money within to say 5 days or they apply for UC and put in an appeal.

This would take a fraction of the man-hours that the scheme announced today will take leaving those staff to administer the much larger 80% paye deal.

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26 Mar 2020 21:12 #1241 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Coronavirus
Totally agree Barry-it will get bogged down in the Civil Service.Should have just been paid out in a lump.

Easily clawed back through the tax system and most of us earning more than the £50k would be happy to pay it back.

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26 Mar 2020 21:22 #1242 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic Coronavirus
And I thought Brexit was going to end all this needless bureaucracy. :-)

Had to had the smiley or some would take me seriously.

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26 Mar 2020 21:30 #1243 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Coronavirus

Laffy wrote: Totally agree Barry-it will get bogged down in the Civil Service.Should have just been paid out in a lump.

Easily clawed back through the tax system and most of us earning more than the £50k would be happy to pay it back.


Do you think 50k is the right cut off point Laffy after all its less than a grand a week?

I know it seems a lot but you have to appreciate that there are lots of s/e people who have borrowed the money personally often at high rates of interest to inject into their business because the chances of their business being able to borrow it would be worse than nil.

For me, I bought a property in Spain last year and my accountant was let's say very frugal with what I declared last year otherwise I suspect I may have hit that problem. I also take advantage of their being two distinct sides to my business one a lot more legit than the other.

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26 Mar 2020 21:52 #1244 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Coronavirus
I think £50k is about right-but only for 3 months.If this thing goes on longer, it would need uplifted.

I’m seeing senior lawyers and accountants being made ‘redundant’ just now-and they are self employed .Too many of them anyway we shout but the point is the virus is percolating all areas.

I still think a better solution would have been to give everyone over 18 £2k a month into their bank account.Simple and no civil servants

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26 Mar 2020 22:06 #1245 by Chilledsilly
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My daughter went self employed last year
One of the many holes in this looney toonz scheme !
And she's on a fraction of your lawyers and big time Charlie's..
But hey ... she can struggle on !

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26 Mar 2020 22:16 #1246 by Bruntonpasty
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Most lawyers and big time Charlie's probs won't be getting it......

They don't like it up 'em!

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26 Mar 2020 22:36 #1247 by NORTHERNSOUL
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Bruntonpasty wrote: Most lawyers and big time Charlie's probs won't be getting it......


And the probably won't need to.

I've just been chatting online with a girl who used to work with me

She's been clearing 5k a week for the last year escorting, camming, making porn and adult tv. Mind you she has massive outgoings like surgery she paid for on credit and a serious white powder addiction.

She tells me everything else has all but dried up [ i suspect she.s still doing some of the more lucrative outcall escorting to guys homes ] but shes says the camming side has gone mad and this will be her busiest week ever if it keeps up.

However bad things get there's always someone who comes up smelling of roses eh

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26 Mar 2020 22:41 #1248 by howoldboy
Replied by howoldboy on topic Coronavirus

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Bruntonpasty wrote: Most lawyers and big time Charlie's probs won't be getting it......


And the probably won't need to.

I've just been chatting online with a girl who used to work with me

She's been clearing 5k a week for the last year escorting, camming, making porn and adult tv. Mind you she has massive outgoings like surgery she paid for on credit and a serious white powder addiction.

She tells me everything else has all but dried up [ i suspect she.s still doing some of the more lucrative outcall escorting to guys homes ] but shes says the camming side has gone mad and this will be her busiest week ever if it keeps up.

However bad things get there's always someone who comes up smelling of roses eh


Or fish.

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26 Mar 2020 22:43 #1249 by melbourneblues
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By the sound of it I don’t think she”ll be smelling of roses :-)

Mullen is a virgin.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Dancingbear

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26 Mar 2020 22:57 #1250 by Urban Designer
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USA has now overtaken China and Italy in confirmed cases and they have been testing less than us!

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