The Brexit Thread

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22 Feb 2019 22:50 - 22 Feb 2019 22:53 #2801 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Weird character you are DB - a bold statement that you cannot back up, or even if you can it would be tenuous boring link because your head is about to explode because of Brexit.

At least you will be hiding in your bloody fall-out bunker for at least a month shitting yourself at the end of our EU partnership whilst we all get on with normal life.

Snowflake in the highest order alert.


"I hope that you have got your anti-depressants at the ready as you sound a right miserable get"

Don't spend that much time thinking about Brexit really, I have job and a family who take up most of my time.

Doubt my landlord would allow me to build a bunker, in any case life will go on, we'll all just be a bit worse off.

Bit rich coming from a bed wetter like yourself.


Any fool would know that you would have to have had them in your system for a while for them to kick in and why would you start taking them on 29th March and the likes.

As I said you would do, you would come up with some tenuous link again but however, before you try to get me banned again, I didn't mean to cause any offence over the pills bit was trying to get the point across that you are a miserable get.

Has this board really come to this where you knew damn well what I was getting at and I don't assume for one second that you are ill in the mind but used a figure of speech and you behave like the people that in my eyes should be leaving the country first - not forced to but they cannot resist the pull of the Fuehrer, it is not a slur on you but you should fly and thrive in Germany and show us pesky remainers what we are missing.

Fact is that there would be you and the rest of them begging to come back in but you wont get the full exposure that Shamima Begum has got to get back in unfortunately as I would love to see you scratting away in Calais with her as my screen saver.
Last edit: 22 Feb 2019 22:53 by munchymagic.

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22 Feb 2019 23:12 #2802 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The Brexit Thread
I knew what you meant.

Why would I want to live in Germany ? I'm perfectly happy here and my Deutsch is basic at best.

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23 Feb 2019 10:23 #2803 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic The Brexit Thread

munchymagic wrote:

orfc wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

orfc wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: We cant revert to the euro, because we have never been a part of it.

We don't have to join the eurozone by 2022. Ourselves and Denmark both have opt-outs so regardless of what any other countries are doing we would have to drop our opt-out and then parliament would have to vote/have a referendum to adopt it.

Funny how it's only remainers who are accused of project fear...


Eventually we would have to change to the Euro - end of.


No we wouldn't. End of.

Show where it says we do and we'll point out where you or the source have got it wrong.

Anyways, the euro is going to collapse on its arse isn't it?


www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10...-adopt-the-euro.html

It is all there - but you are right ORFC we will not have to change regardless as even if we get a deal then it wont include changing to their system of the Euro.

Enjoy the change pal and rejoice your Scottish notes that I still get and am not sure if they are legit - one had a Crocodile or something on it the other week and I wasn't sure if it was toy money or what :)


If you actually read the last few paragraphs, it argues all the countries in the EU will be in the euro, because the EU will kick out all the non-euro countries like us and Denmark into some other group of countries like EEA... which is utter drivel, but surely that's what you're after. It is not saying we would be forced to have the euro though.


We all know that this would have softened though over the years to the point where we are told that because we have not accepted the Euro as we are the last ones left then the pound will become worthless and you will all lose your jobs whilst the BBC goes into overdrive - bit like what you lot are swallowing up now.


Why would it become worthless?

The article you've posted there munchy is the perfect argument for stopping brexit, because it says the eu will eventually kick us out - and if it does, it will be the fascist superstate a lot of brexiters think it is, and I'd agree if it did happen - so let's cancel brexit and wait for that to happen. Glad we've finally agreed on that :-)

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23 Feb 2019 12:15 #2804 by Northumbrian
Replied by Northumbrian on topic The Brexit Thread
I see the ERG are threatening to bring down the government if the option of no deal is removed from the negotiating table this week. Effectively they are saying they will abstain from all votes , meaning Theresa May can't win a vote in Parliament without opposition support.

If that happens we are entering very wierd territory.... if an election is called I think parliament is suspended, whilst election campaign's take place. With leaving on the 29th March the default legal position, and parliament suspended... we would effectively be leaving on WTO and there is nothing anyone can do about it... in theory. I'm not sure if they would have time to extend article 50 before then with opposition support.

It looks like a WTO Brexit is much more likely now... which is why the EU have recently made agreements on things like derivatives clearance and settlement equivalence, no visas for European travel, agreements to keep planes flying and keep lorry access.... amazing that many of the project fear claims are melting away thanks to the EU no deal preparations.

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23 Feb 2019 12:23 - 23 Feb 2019 12:24 #2805 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread
As I said the other day, high stakes chess match now...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 23 Feb 2019 12:24 by CCU.
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24 Feb 2019 15:50 #2806 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread
No vote this week by looks:


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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24 Feb 2019 17:49 - 24 Feb 2019 17:50 #2807 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread
I'm getting sick of all this stuff now..
Posturing by different factions..
Rumour and counter rumour on defecting MPs...
MPs who don't want the blame for getting it wrong saying we need another referendum or a people's vote, in which they hope the result will be to stay in the failing,corrupt EU
It's total crap and if you weren't confused before you sure as hell should be now.

Just get us out

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

Last edit: 24 Feb 2019 17:50 by seesaw50.
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24 Feb 2019 17:59 #2808 by DeckchairBlue

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24 Feb 2019 18:01 #2809 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/24...21-eu-sources-reveal


You would love this I know but we voted out, simple as!

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24 Feb 2019 18:05 #2810 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/24...21-eu-sources-reveal


Yeah the Hotel California scenario, we are hostage to them...if that happens we should be suspending our subs, but it'll never happen!

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

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25 Feb 2019 05:14 - 25 Feb 2019 05:22 #2811 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

seesaw50 wrote: I'm getting sick of all this stuff now..
Posturing by different factions..
Rumour and counter rumour on defecting MPs...
MPs who don't want the blame for getting it wrong saying we need another referendum or a people's vote, in which they hope the result will be to stay in the failing,corrupt EU
It's total crap and if you weren't confused before you sure as hell should be now.

Just get us out


The ones who voted out and those who are willing to abide by the decision of their constituents should just grow a pair of balls and say i.ve had enough of all the [censored] about let's just tell the [censored] in Brussels to get [censored] once and for all.

Had a great day in Salford yesterday brilliant to be with 4000 others who all want the same thing and are willing to take direct action to get it, unlike others who are putting their trust in MP.s who are only interested in protecting their own backs and couldn't care less what 17 million people voted for.

#letsmakebritaingreatagain
Last edit: 25 Feb 2019 05:22 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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25 Feb 2019 15:32 #2812 by pie
Replied by pie on topic The Brexit Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: I'm getting sick of all this stuff now..
Posturing by different factions..
Rumour and counter rumour on defecting MPs...
MPs who don't want the blame for getting it wrong saying we need another referendum or a people's vote, in which they hope the result will be to stay in the failing,corrupt EU
It's total crap and if you weren't confused before you sure as hell should be now.

Just get us out


The ones who voted out and those who are willing to abide by the decision of their constituents should just grow a pair of balls and say i.ve had enough of all the [censored] about let's just tell the [censored] in Brussels to get [censored] once and for all.

Had a great day in Salford yesterday brilliant to be with 4000 others who all want the same thing and are willing to take direct action to get it, unlike others who are putting their trust in MP.s who are only interested in protecting their own backs and couldn't care less what 17 million people voted for.

#letsmakebritaingreatagain


The day we have to take and rip a twitter hashtag off those clowns in the US is a sad one. This is Great Britain Barry, home of innovation, home of intelligence, leaders of the world. Let's at least have our own.
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25 Feb 2019 16:07 #2813 by ExiledJock
Replied by ExiledJock on topic The Brexit Thread
LOL. "Direct action". Couldn't even get the laptop to work.

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25 Feb 2019 18:06 - 25 Feb 2019 18:08 #2814 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread
Corbyn tells Labour Party to back vote for a second referendum:


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 25 Feb 2019 18:08 by CCU.
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25 Feb 2019 18:18 #2815 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread

CCU wrote: Corbyn tells Labour Party to back vote for a second referendum:


This is very disappointing for me, the party that I grew up with and agreed with most of their policies is now gone.

They are now the enemy for what I believe in and for a workers political party to oppose democracy is a total disgrace.

However much I oppose the Tories at least they are trying their hardest to push through what the people voted for, even though they are making a mess of it - the Labour party that I used to respect are trying to fudge it up when it is already hard work to sort out.

The way I look at it is Corbyn is just trying to gain power regardless, what he fights for will make his Labour party as weak as piss if he ever gets in as the deal will be so poor that no party will have any cash.

Surely any idiot can see that fighting for the best deal possible gives whoever is in power room cash wise to manoeuvre - Corbyn cannot.
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25 Feb 2019 18:27 #2816 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic The Brexit Thread

CCU wrote: Corbyn tells Labour Party to back vote for a second referendum:



Well if anyone who voted leave was in any doubt about what they had done you can now be assured you've made the right choice .
This guy doesn't know if he wants a shite or a haircut atm terrified at the thought of more defections from his shambolic party a joke figure masquerading leader of the opposition .

What the [censored] has happened to labour more Islington than working class now .




Leave Means Leave
You [censored] Turkeys.
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25 Feb 2019 18:53 #2817 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread
Labour is two parties in all but name.

Traditional Labour in the heartlands, Momentum in the big Cities. Both know they can’t split though as they’d be nothing’s...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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25 Feb 2019 18:58 #2818 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread
Tony Blair happened to the Labour party and made them Tory lite.

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25 Feb 2019 19:33 #2819 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic The Brexit Thread
Long overdue, there's still time to stick a stake through the heart of brexit before sunrise on the 29th March

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25 Feb 2019 19:54 #2820 by Dentonholmersimpson
Replied by Dentonholmersimpson on topic The Brexit Thread

orfc wrote: Long overdue, there's still time to stick a stake through the heart of brexit before sunrise on the 29th March


Regardlass of whether their is another vote, and remain were to win, do you think for one minute that will change the attitude of those who voted to leave?

A remain vote doesn't mean it will go away, it won't.

If the will of the people is denied by parliamentary subterfuge, there will be a price to a pay, as a lot of MPs will find out.

Our relationship with the EU can't just go back to the way it was, we have set the ball rolling and hopefuuly started its terminal decline

in its present form.
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25 Feb 2019 20:03 #2821 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread

orfc wrote: Long overdue, there's still time to stick a stake through the heart of brexit before sunrise on the 29th March


Better not spoil my [censored] birthday - I will drink the Champers regardless :)

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25 Feb 2019 20:21 #2822 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Brexit Thread
So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Meanwhile, wait for the usual plethora of terms and conditions that go with the territory.

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

What a mess
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25 Feb 2019 20:31 - 25 Feb 2019 20:32 #2823 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic The Brexit Thread
Patronising Ba5tards- How the Elites betrayed Britain by Quentin Letts

A very interesting read!

They don't like it up 'em!
Last edit: 25 Feb 2019 20:32 by Bruntonpasty.

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25 Feb 2019 20:41 - 25 Feb 2019 20:42 #2824 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread
That smug Emily Thornberry was on Ch.4 News still banging on about "we think we have a Brexit plan we can get through but Mrs May won't listen" ...get through where? With the EU repeating time and again they are not for re-opening already negotiated terms.

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is to have won the lottery of life !

Last edit: 25 Feb 2019 20:42 by seesaw50.
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25 Feb 2019 20:48 #2825 by feckwittery
Replied by feckwittery on topic The Brexit Thread

Laffy wrote: So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?
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25 Feb 2019 20:53 #2826 by Dentonholmersimpson
Replied by Dentonholmersimpson on topic The Brexit Thread

feckwittery wrote:

Laffy wrote: So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?


Or, to put it more concisely, the remain MPs who never wanted to leave have done their damdest to frustrate the will of the majority.
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25 Feb 2019 21:10 #2827 by feckwittery
Replied by feckwittery on topic The Brexit Thread

Dentonholmersimpson wrote: Or, to put it more concisely, the remain MPs who never wanted to leave have done their damdest to frustrate the will of the majority.

Or can see the wider context of an advisory vote result for what it is and not be blinded "leave" number in isolation. Parliament is just as split as the country (oooh fancy parliament reflecting the nation's opinion!).
Ultimately they are there to serve the countries best interests, if that means remain in the EU then that's exactly what they should do.

And no, revoking article 50 and remaining if it is the best path wouldn't be a betrayal of the electorate or the result, it'd still be in line with it and exactly what a functioning representative democracy working in the best interest of the country should do.
But why not have a second vote and see which way the land lies before the final act? Why not get your overwhelming mandate to proceed if that's what you believe will happen...

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25 Feb 2019 21:12 #2828 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread
So if Remain won a second vote, they’d be happy to go best of three?

Only fair...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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25 Feb 2019 21:20 #2829 by Dentonholmersimpson
Replied by Dentonholmersimpson on topic The Brexit Thread

feckwittery wrote:

Dentonholmersimpson wrote: Or, to put it more concisely, the remain MPs who never wanted to leave have done their damdest to frustrate the will of the majority.

Or can see the wider context of an advisory vote result for what it is and not be blinded "leave" number in isolation. Parliament is just as split as the country (oooh fancy parliament reflecting the nation's opinion!).
Ultimately they are there to serve the countries best interests, if that means remain in the EU then that's exactly what they should do.

And no, revoking article 50 and remaining if it is the best path wouldn't be a betrayal of the electorate or the result, it'd still be in line with it and exactly what a functioning representative democracy working in the best interest of the country should do.
But why not have a second vote and see which way the land lies before the final act? Why not get your overwhelming mandate to proceed if that's what you believe will happen...


So, will a second vote be advisory or binding?

I guess that depends on the result.
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25 Feb 2019 21:21 - 25 Feb 2019 21:30 #2830 by feckwittery
Replied by feckwittery on topic The Brexit Thread

CCU wrote: So if Remain won a second vote, they’d be happy to go best of three?

Only fair...

If you (parliament) can put up a coherent argument for it down the line, sure. You seem to think it was a win/lose vote though, it wasn't.
If there's no significant shift and it's split down the middle again (and thus the public saying "unsure") then those paid to make the decisions and in a better position to do so will need to make the choice. In whichever way is deemed to be in the best interests of the country.

Dentonholmersimpson wrote: So, will a second vote be advisory or binding?

I guess that depends on the result.

Advisory, all UK referendums have been. Concisely answered above, although indeed it would depend on the result. Significant shifts one way or the other would give parliament some sort of mandate, a split electorate doesn't.
Last edit: 25 Feb 2019 21:30 by feckwittery.

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25 Feb 2019 22:21 #2831 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread
How about we just leave like intended and in fifty years or so then remainers can moan about it then.

What will happen most likely is that the country will become more patriotic once we are out of the EU and this warms my soul.

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25 Feb 2019 22:35 #2832 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Brexit Thread
I’d be all for a second referendum as long as the right question was asked. I’d be very confident people would still vote to leave and show the political class up totally. I’ve always told people they should always have their say and vote regardless of whether they think their vote counts or not. Don’t think I’ll be saying it when the next election comes around.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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25 Feb 2019 22:56 #2833 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The Brexit Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: I'm getting sick of all this stuff now..
Posturing by different factions..
Rumour and counter rumour on defecting MPs...
MPs who don't want the blame for getting it wrong saying we need another referendum or a people's vote, in which they hope the result will be to stay in the failing,corrupt EU
It's total crap and if you weren't confused before you sure as hell should be now.

Just get us out


The ones who voted out and those who are willing to abide by the decision of their constituents should just grow a pair of balls and say i.ve had enough of all the [censored] about let's just tell the [censored] in Brussels to get [censored] once and for all.

Had a great day in Salford yesterday brilliant to be with 4000 others who all want the same thing and are willing to take direct action to get it, unlike others who are putting their trust in MP.s who are only interested in protecting their own backs and couldn't care less what 17 million people voted for.

#letsmakebritaingreatagain


Wasn't the thing in Salford just because Stephen isn't happy about panorama investigating him ?

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26 Feb 2019 06:48 - 26 Feb 2019 07:05 #2834 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic The Brexit Thread

feckwittery wrote:

Laffy wrote: So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined
win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?



Your forgetting the last general election where both Labour and tories both fought their campaigns of a pro leave policy with no second referendum both increasing their share of the vote .
Whilst remain supporting parties floundered .

Or does this not fit in with your agenda ?




Leave Means Leave
You [censored] Turkeys.
Last edit: 26 Feb 2019 07:05 by Alan.

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26 Feb 2019 07:51 #2835 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Brexit Thread
It’s a challenge to compare this to a board of directors to be honest.Easier to change direction for a start.

We had an election and Referendum-both were on the side of leave.I think the real mistake was not raising the bar to 60pc for a Leave decision to be effective-would have removed any doubt.

Problem now is drift-and blind panic setting in as a result.Despite this,our consequent currency devaluation has made it easier to rebalance our economy as we are seeing with high employment.

I bet at least half the EU countries would love to devalue their currency at the moment.

Delaying exit is a real possibility now-the EU don’t want to go into the forthcoming EU elections on the back of us leaving in March

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26 Feb 2019 08:57 - 26 Feb 2019 10:11 #2836 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread
Uproar in the Labour ranks:






Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 26 Feb 2019 10:11 by CCU.

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26 Feb 2019 09:01 #2837 by griff
Replied by griff on topic The Brexit Thread

feckwittery wrote:

Laffy wrote: So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?


Both of your counter-arguments, feckwittery, are undermined by the fact that both parties have agreed along the line to adhere to the outcome of the referendum. “Brexit means brexit” and “no deal is better than a bad deal” was effectively setting policy on the hoof. This has been fully understood by the electorate as the months have gone by. It follows that the referendum, much though you would like it to be, was NOT advisory as the Tories made it clear before it happened that they would implement the will of the people (and forget those that didn’t vote - we still get a Goverment even though loads of people don’t vote in general elections). It follows that there is no need for a second referendum as the outcome of the first was binding. It was democratic and it was final.

May and Corbyn are both letting down the people in different ways. It should never have been left up the the Tories to deliver brexit in the first place as there will always be objectors who will claim bias based on politics. It was so important that it should have been put to a cross-party group to negotiate, with pro-brexit MPs in the majority and assisted by respected economists. Yes, I see the problems in that too, but at least a lot of the brickbats and finger-pointing would have been avoided. Don’t forget that two brexit secretaries walked away from the job because they weren’t being allowed to deliver what their consciences told them they should be doing, probably because a remainer was ultimately in charge. Disastrous decision making by the Government from the start, compounded by the calling of a ‘back-slapping’ election along the way at which the electorate effectively told May of their dissatisfaction with her.

The HONEST way to manage this now is to simply walk without a deal. It’s funny how most of the politicians are looking on this as a disaster, while many economists seem to think that in the medium term it could be just what our economy needs. They’re not in charge though, are they? And when did you last see honesty from a politician?
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26 Feb 2019 10:15 #2838 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic The Brexit Thread
Jezza's action is very predictable, has nothing to do with Brexit, and is all about power at any cost. This has immediately put pressure on the rats who left the Titanic, and has thrown the survivors a life jacket. His action is all about stopping any others jumping overboard, as it is they who will have forced this.
So, lets hear what new excuses they come up with to jump ship.

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26 Feb 2019 10:28 - 26 Feb 2019 10:31 #2839 by Northumbrian
Replied by Northumbrian on topic The Brexit Thread
Well, Corbyn has finally made it official and confirmed he doesn't give a stuff about Labour heartlands in the North, Midlands and Wales, by pandering to the metropolitan champagne socialists in the South East on a 2nd vote.

He has also confirmed that his reputation for honesty and integrity is nothing but a myth. A life long Anti-EU campaigner going against his own beliefs, as he thinks it may help him get into power.

I'm afraid this one will backfire spectacularly for Labour.... over 60% of their constituencies voted to Leave the EU. 6 million Labour voters... many of them lifelong voters... won't forgive this Brexit betrayal. Long after his new Luvvie lefty supporters abandon the party, when it's no longer trendy to support them, the traditional Labour supporter will hold this grudge. This is Labour out of power for a generation. I would imagine the SDP will see a huge surge in membership and support.

A second referendum just confirms people's suspicions that their opinion no longer counts and their vote is meaningless in this country. The metropolitan elite will have their way, regardless of what the people want. I'm yet to hear a good answer from a remainer about how they think a second vote will help heal the divide in this country? If remain win by 5%, what do you think will happen? Why should leavers respect the result of a second referendum?

Worse than a second vote is talk that it might only contain two options.... remain or TM deal. If that is what we are presented with then it has to be a mass boycott by Leave voters and a national blockade of roads on referendum day to disrupt any vote.

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Last edit: 26 Feb 2019 10:31 by Northumbrian.
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26 Feb 2019 12:15 #2840 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

seesaw50 wrote: That smug Emily Thornberry was on Ch.4 News still banging on about "we think we have a Brexit plan we can get through but Mrs May won't listen" ...get through where? With the EU repeating time and again they are not for re-opening already negotiated terms.


What exacly is the point of What Corbyn,s proposing if thats the option we might as well stay in keep the vetos and contribution reductions and put together a team to get elected at the EU elections and start to bring down the whole thing from within. Project Nigel

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26 Feb 2019 12:22 #2841 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

feckwittery wrote:

Laffy wrote: So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?


Doesn't matter if you win 6 - 0 or 10 - 9 on penalties a win is a win. Losers should either just crawl back into their holes and let those of us with the balls to take us out and make Britain Great again and stay losers or get behind the winners and make the [censored] in Parliament give us what we voted for.

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26 Feb 2019 12:25 #2842 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

CCU wrote: So if Remain won a second vote, they’d be happy to go best of three?

Only fair...


Would the third vote be before during or after the months of civil disobedience ?

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26 Feb 2019 12:33 #2843 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

munchymagic wrote: How about we just leave like intended and in fifty years or so then remainers can moan about it then.

What will happen most likely is that the country will become more patriotic once we are out of the EU and this warms my soul.


Of course, it should every product manufactured in this country should carry a union jack symbol and come with a voucher worth say 20% which can then be spent on any other product with the symbol.

Companies will be running around like dervishes building new factories to manufacture any goods people think we won't be able to get any more and sticking the Union Jack on them.
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26 Feb 2019 12:41 #2844 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: I'm getting sick of all this stuff now..
Posturing by different factions..
Rumour and counter rumour on defecting MPs...
MPs who don't want the blame for getting it wrong saying we need another referendum or a people's vote, in which they hope the result will be to stay in the failing,corrupt EU
It's total crap and if you weren't confused before you sure as hell should be now.

Just get us out


The ones who voted out and those who are willing to abide by the decision of their constituents should just grow a pair of balls and say i.ve had enough of all the [censored] about let's just tell the [censored] in Brussels to get [censored] once and for all.

Had a great day in Salford yesterday brilliant to be with 4000 others who all want the same thing and are willing to take direct action to get it, unlike others who are putting their trust in MP.s who are only interested in protecting their own backs and couldn't care less what 17 million people voted for.

#letsmakebritaingreatagain


Wasn't the thing in Salford just because Stephen isn't happy about panorama investigating him ?


They can investigate him all they want

What people won't let them do is set people up on camera and when they get found out lie, lie and lie again to try and get off the hook. It's against both their own charter as well as the law of the land.

Oh and btw his name is Tommy Robinson he changed it by deed poll and to identify the two names together can actually be illegal in certain circumstances something the BBC and others should take notice of

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26 Feb 2019 12:46 #2845 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

griff wrote:

feckwittery wrote:

Laffy wrote: So Corbyn obeys his party but chooses to completely ignore the electorate.What a pathetic individual this guy is.

Don't know where brexiteers get this won/loss toss from, it was and still is an advisory vote with no defined win/lose parameters. It was a litmus test of public opinion.
As for "completely ignoring the electorate", the the electorate that answered definitively were divided down the middle. You appear to be blinkered by your proclivities and unable to see the result in it's wider context of an "advisory vote".
17.4 million said leave
16.1 million said remain
13.0 million said "don't know" (abstained)

(18.9 million didn't have a say)

Can we also stop calling it a People’s Vote-it’s actually a second referendum to satisfy those who didn’t agree with first result.

Agreed it is a second referendum but to say it's simply "because to satisfy those that don't agree" is rather disingenuous. It's another advisory vote, with a public in theory having a further two years of experience, knowledge and learning to better understand what the ramifications actually are. Opinions change, especially after being better informed.

How would you react if one of your boards voted for something vaguely defined 6-5 (after a equally close split shareholder vote) and kept ploughing on regardless after 22 months of negative feedback, failing negotiations, due diligence and sound information indicating that it's not in the interests of the company to continue on that path. Is it my way or the high way or put is it back to the board or indeed the shareholders for the OK to continue the self destruct?


Both of your counter-arguments, feckwittery, are undermined by the fact that both parties have agreed along the line to adhere to the outcome of the referendum. “Brexit means brexit” and “no deal is better than a bad deal” was effectively setting policy on the hoof. This has been fully understood by the electorate as the months have gone by. It follows that the referendum, much though you would like it to be, was NOT advisory as the Tories made it clear before it happened that they would implement the will of the people (and forget those that didn’t vote - we still get a Goverment even though loads of people don’t vote in general elections). It follows that there is no need for a second referendum as the outcome of the first was binding. It was democratic and it was final.

May and Corbyn are both letting down the people in different ways. It should never have been left up the the Tories to deliver brexit in the first place as there will always be objectors who will claim bias based on politics. It was so important that it should have been put to a cross-party group to negotiate, with pro-brexit MPs in the majority and assisted by respected economists. Yes, I see the problems in that too, but at least a lot of the brickbats and finger-pointing would have been avoided. Don’t forget that two brexit secretaries walked away from the job because they weren’t being allowed to deliver what their consciences told them they should be doing, probably because a remainer was ultimately in charge. Disastrous decision making by the Government from the start, compounded by the calling of a ‘back-slapping’ election along the way at which the electorate effectively told May of their dissatisfaction with her.

The HONEST way to manage this now is to simply walk without a deal. It’s funny how most of the politicians are looking on this as a disaster, while many economists seem to think that in the medium term it could be just what our economy needs. They’re not in charge though, are they? And when did you last see honesty from a politician?


At last somebody who gets it

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26 Feb 2019 12:46 #2846 by sirjimmyglass
Replied by sirjimmyglass on topic The Brexit Thread
Incredible stupidity here from Corbyn and the Labour Party.

How can they not see that, apart from a few loud voices, there's absolutely no appetite for another referendum at this point? Everybody is sick to death of this debate now, just get together and get the thing sorted. What will be, will be.

If they were to call one at this point they'd be opening the country to sustained riots.

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26 Feb 2019 12:48 #2847 by chedderbob247
Replied by chedderbob247 on topic The Brexit Thread
MPs to be given a vote on no-deal Brexit or a delay of Brexit if Mays next deal is not approved.

Que the end of Brexit. Any delay will almost certainly include another referendum. Personally i think that would be a bigger swing to remain and the farce that is Brexit can be moved on by remaining in the EU.

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26 Feb 2019 17:21 #2848 by Northumbrian
Replied by Northumbrian on topic The Brexit Thread
Yeah. Because we'll all justv happily move on after a 2nd referendum win by remain! Why on earth would leave voters respect that vote when the previous one was ignored? There is zero chance of moving on after a 2nd vote... we are looking at political carnage at that point. Far right groups will gain huge energy and numbers, which is a scary thought, and there is a good chance of social unrest. Be careful what you wish for.

If it is extended then we should be able to vote for in the upcoming EU elections. I would expect eurosceptic parties to make big gains from across Europe.

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26 Feb 2019 18:17 #2849 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

chedderbob247 wrote: MPs to be given a vote on no-deal Brexit or a delay of Brexit if Mays next deal is not approved.

Que the end of Brexit. Any delay will almost certainly include another referendum. Personally i think that would be a bigger swing to remain and the farce that is Brexit can be moved on by remaining in the EU.


Not if the MP.s in leave voting areas do their duty and listen to what their electorate has instructed them to do and any that don't should have it made very clear to them not to bother stepping back into the constituencies as they are no longer required.

Let's Just get out get them ferries booked and make Britain great and white once again.

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26 Feb 2019 18:23 #2850 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The Brexit Thread
The EU economy is in deep trouble-slowdown has started on the back of the auto emissions scandals and associated issues but more endemic.

I remember doing my A level geography and the standard question all those years ago was ‘Southern Euro countries are poorer than Northern Euro countries-discuss’

Nothing much has changed-it’s too bloody hot to work in the PIGS-Portugal,Italy,Greece and Spain.All these economies are in deep trouble.

Meanwhile our ‘friends’ in Eire will be quaking in their boots given their economy is largely based on UK trade and tax avoidance for multi nationals.

Corbyn has sold his soul-total coward.

I still think May will call an election before long.

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