The Brexit Thread

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24 Mar 2018 08:35 #301 by Ibogaine
Replied by Ibogaine on topic The Brexit Thread
I suppose that makes you someone who wants the UK to leave the EU and to adopt a skills based immigration policy to hopefully ensure there are no skills shortages in key sectors.

I've checked this out and I'm sorry to say that that does make you a racist :(

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24 Mar 2018 08:56 - 24 Mar 2018 09:03 #302 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

munchymagic wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


He got it bang on the head bogey lad.

One thing that I will never understand from the remainers is that the NHS is on its arse so why accept more people in to freely roam on their own accord and you and your kin will suffer because of this - unless you are rich or a total hippy then this is just plain stupidity.

Neglect our own for total strangers who have put [censored] all in to the system making it harder for the regular person to get an appointment in a doctors or hospital.

Showing your ignorance bogey or maybe you are rich and don't give a [censored].

The idiot things is to blame immigration for the NHS being a state, but of cause you'll think that because the biggest papers in this country are the Sun and daily Mail, they aren't going to tell you that's it's because of conservative underfunding, also this idea that immigrants put nothing into our economy is not true is just bolloxs, it's a fact that they are a net gain to the economy,. The problem with you is if you like the sound of something you'll believe it even if it is bolloxs , but when facts state otherwise you don't believe them as you don't like the sound of it, when we leave people are going to look new thing to blame
Would controlled immigration be better of cause, but leaving the EU will not fix our NHS , at all , we'll still have a rapidly aging population , a lack of nurses as people don't want to join since the bursaries were cut and a lack of skilled doctors as the best head around for better money.

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T
Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 09:03 by Happyblue.
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24 Mar 2018 09:23 #303 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread
Of course

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24 Mar 2018 09:28 #304 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Brexit Thread
The country in the EU that has the largest number of citizens living abroad is Britain. The NHS gains from freedom of movement of people.

If you look at non-EU citizens coming here you have to show skills and income before you come and even then you have to pay for the NHS. People who automatically qualify are refugees. The entire populations of Iraq, Syria and Libya currently qualify as refugees. If we stop bombing them they can't come!

The NHS is screwed because of underfunding. Weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons in Syria and Salisbury, blame immigrants- all stories propagated by the BBC and the Express

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24 Mar 2018 09:38 - 24 Mar 2018 09:40 #305 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread
I've just seen the total raised by Sport Relief is over £39m in one night. Most would agree that drastic action is needed to sort the NHS , which requires funding. However there would be total outcry if a ringfenced levy for healthcare was imposed ... people eh!

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Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 09:40 by seesaw50.

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24 Mar 2018 10:11 - 24 Mar 2018 10:15 #306 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

Ibogaine wrote: Sorry Admiral. He just makes these sweeping statements which are not based in reason. All the remain side said X and infers that it was only the remain side that told fibs. Least they had the decency not to put their fibs on the side of a bus ay Bluesy?

NHS is on its arse cos its been underfunded. With Brexit widely predicted to shrink the economy cant see that helping despite all the bus guff.

Someone I know is currently in ICU with heart failure. The doctor is Portuguese and when I visited all the nurses were either Eastern European or from Nigeria. If the staff cant/wont come then the NHS will be totally [censored]. To be fair though, the Nigerian nurse was one of the rudest people I've ever met, so every cloud...


If May had a spine and had just told the EU to go and get fu cked which is what most of us who voted out wanted and Nige would have done and not paid them a penny the figure on the side of the bus would have easily been achievable.

Simple answer put a million immigrants and asylum seekers on the old and rusting ferries that were bought for the job back to where they came from and they're hardly gonna be in a position to be scamming our NHS are they
Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 10:15 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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24 Mar 2018 10:24 - 24 Mar 2018 10:34 #307 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

Markovitch wrote: 1]The country in the EU that has the largest number of citizens living abroad is Britain. The NHS gains from freedom of movement of people.

If you look at non-EU citizens coming here you have to show skills and income before you come and even then you have to pay for the NHS. People who automatically qualify are refugees. The entire populations of Iraq, Syria and Libya currently qualify as refugees.1] If we stop bombing them they can't come!

The NHS is screwed because of underfunding. Weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons in Syria and Salisbury, blame immigrants- all stories propagated by the BBC and the Express


1] Yes that's correct and nearly 50% of them live in Spain so just do an individual deal with them for a few million if you want but even there all but the most basic treatment still costs a packet compare the cost of a brit being treat after a heart attack in Spain and a Spaniard having the same treatment in a British NHS Hospital.Do you really think the figure is the same ?

2] When did we last bomb anybody in Syria ? as far as I know it's your mates the Ruskies who are doing the bombing on behalf of their puppet
Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 10:34 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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24 Mar 2018 10:38 - 24 Mar 2018 10:40 #308 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

seesaw50 wrote: I've just seen the total raised by Sport Relief is over £39m in one night. Most would agree that drastic action is needed to sort the NHS , which requires funding. However there would be total outcry if a ringfenced levy for healthcare was imposed ... people eh!


Well I for one would be quite happy to pay a ringfenced levy based on your current tax code on condition that anyone without a record of national insurance payments in this country should either be charged upfront the full cost of the treatment or better still told to [censored] off home for their treatment
Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 10:40 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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24 Mar 2018 10:45 - 24 Mar 2018 10:59 #309 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic The Brexit Thread

Ibogaine wrote: I suppose that makes you someone who wants the UK to leave the EU and to adopt a skills based immigration policy to hopefully ensure there are no skills shortages in key sectors.

I've checked this out and I'm sorry to say that that does make you a racist :(



Im assuming this isn't what you favour? You perhaps favour the open door policy we currently have towards the EU?

Edit to add, I don't care what colour, race or creed immigrants to this country are, I really don't, it's their skills, abilities and willingness to embrace our culture and communities that is important to me. If that makes me a racist in your view, so be it!

They don't like it up 'em!
Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 10:59 by Bruntonpasty.
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24 Mar 2018 11:03 #310 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread
How many years now have we been discussing the problems of the NHS????? It needs a cross party working group going Trust by Trust around the country doing a total weeding out of wasteful working practices....staffing in non nursing roles ....and procurement contracts of everything from lightbulbs to drugs to the most state if the art equipment .

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24 Mar 2018 11:23 #311 by Ibogaine
Replied by Ibogaine on topic The Brexit Thread

Bruntonpasty wrote:

Ibogaine wrote: I suppose that makes you someone who wants the UK to leave the EU and to adopt a skills based immigration policy to hopefully ensure there are no skills shortages in key sectors.

I've checked this out and I'm sorry to say that that does make you a racist :(



Im assuming this isn't what you favour? You perhaps favour the open door policy we currently have towards the EU?

Edit to add, I don't care what colour, race or creed immigrants to this country are, I really don't, it's their skills, abilities and willingness to embrace our culture and communities that is important to me. If that makes me a racist in your view, so be it!


Pasto mate - I was just being incredibly sarcastic cos I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.

Mucho was just stating his view that immigration is the reason the NHS is in a state and I was just like "hang about, the NHS is one obvious area where the county benefits from immigration". Just differences of opinion, something which even a squalid rascal like Muncho is entitled to.

I voted remain cos I thought Brexit was a bad idea. Seen nothing to change my mind on that. Know several people who held and still hold the opposite view and I still invite them to my dinner parties.

Obviously its not racist to want a merit/skills/points based immigration policy. Unless that policy also involves the forced migration of millions through the use of rusty ferries. That probably is a bit racist.

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24 Mar 2018 11:37 - 24 Mar 2018 11:43 #312 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic The Brexit Thread
You'll obviously have noticed I didn't make any reference to ocean going vessels.

The biggest threat to our NHS is the cocnstant medling by politicians. Every change of government party wise will signal more chopping and changing to the NHS. Tories will cut and try to save(they may fail at this obvously) Labour will borrow and throw money and people at it willy nilly without concern for the cost or where it comes from.(the money tree) Whichever side of this you favour matters not, the result is constant change upheaval and waste. Until control of the NHS is taken away from politicians there will be little improvement, Immigration, or increasing the population just highlights the issue further. That's not to say that immigration shouldn't be controlled, we had a net figure of circa 350k per annum, this expands the population by a Million every three years. That's an extra million people needing the NHS every three years, A million people needing housing, a proportion of that million needing education,a proportion of that million needing jobs. That has to be unsustainable.

They don't like it up 'em!
Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 11:43 by Bruntonpasty.

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24 Mar 2018 11:57 #313 by Ibogaine
Replied by Ibogaine on topic The Brexit Thread
The biggest threat is underfunding. We're the 6th richest country in the world and come winter there's not enough beds in our hospitals. The Tories have taken a political decision that people will vote for a lower tax economy and put up with second world services as a result. The tide is already turning on this one though. Sorry Laffy - get those funds over to the Caymans whilst you can marra.

More people do use more resources. But immigrants make a net contribution to society. Its the people who have the drive and amibition to move hundreds/thousands of miles to take up work in the UK whose taxes subsidise the houses, healthcare, sky tv for those Brits who moan that they have to get off the sofa once a week to sign on. I don't personally buy this migrant scroungers cack.

Whichever way you look at it Brexit is a gamble with the economy. Maybe it will work out, but if it doesn't then can you image the state of our public services then.

And what is the gamble for? So Michael Gove et al can vote to remove our human rights without some bloke with a funny sounding name stopping him from doing so.

Not worth it. But thats just my opinion you pack of racists.

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24 Mar 2018 12:04 #314 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic The Brexit Thread
Are we creating so many jobs in this country that we need so many foreign workers? there's still a million and a half on our dole queue remember, are they just abandoned/left to their own devices? It's not just investment in the NHS that's needed, it's money for further education rather than higher ed all the time.

The beds thing is correct, but lets not forget which party was in power when a smaller hospital was built in Carlisle.

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24 Mar 2018 12:17 #315 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The Brexit Thread
3400 bombs dropped in 9 months in Syria with a cost of from 30 to 100k each

inews.co.uk/news/uk/raf-denies-iraq-syria-civilian-casualties/

When Isis High Command was trapped in Raqqa it was the RAF that flew in to evacuate them

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle...cleshow/61703015.cms

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24 Mar 2018 12:21 #316 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Brexit Thread

Bruntonpasty wrote: Are we creating so many jobs in this country that we need so many foreign workers? there's still a million and a half on our dole queue remember, are they just abandoned/left to their own devices? It's not just investment in the NHS that's needed, it's money for further education rather than higher ed all the time.

The beds thing is correct, but lets not forget which party was in power when a smaller hospital was built in Carlisle.


Aye but under the tories who are trying their best to move services from west cumberland they must think its certainly big enough if not too big or they wouldnt be doing it.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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24 Mar 2018 12:35 #317 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic The Brexit Thread
Hence why i say take politicians out of NHS control, just make them find the money. Trouble is, none of them a brave enough to stand up at a general election and clearly raise tax. The lib dems said they would raise tax for NHS and ring fence it, but they were never going to win so they could say what they want. Some of Labours election promises were guff too, not saying the tories a greatly better, they're all pretty crap really!

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24 Mar 2018 16:22 #318 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


He got it bang on the head bogey lad.

One thing that I will never understand from the remainers is that the NHS is on its arse so why accept more people in to freely roam on their own accord and you and your kin will suffer because of this - unless you are rich or a total hippy then this is just plain stupidity.

Neglect our own for total strangers who have put [censored] all in to the system making it harder for the regular person to get an appointment in a doctors or hospital.

Showing your ignorance bogey or maybe you are rich and don't give a [censored].

The idiot things is to blame immigration for the NHS being a state, but of cause you'll think that because the biggest papers in this country are the Sun and daily Mail, they aren't going to tell you that's it's because of conservative underfunding, also this idea that immigrants put nothing into our economy is not true is just bolloxs, it's a fact that they are a net gain to the economy,. The problem with you is if you like the sound of something you'll believe it even if it is bolloxs , but when facts state otherwise you don't believe them as you don't like the sound of it, when we leave people are going to look new thing to blame
Would controlled immigration be better of cause, but leaving the EU will not fix our NHS , at all , we'll still have a rapidly aging population , a lack of nurses as people don't want to join since the bursaries were cut and a lack of skilled doctors as the best head around for better money.


The NHS has been in a state for years but it is a fact that if you add x amount of extra people needing treating then make cuts to the NHS then it is obvious what the outcome will be.

Common sense really regardless what any newspaper will tell you.

And as for foreign nurses/doctors etc then there was nothing wrong with the old system where if they can find employment or can prove that they can support themselves then they get a visa which they need to renew every year - no different to what the Australians do.

As for being not enough workers for the jobs needed then employers will just need to pay the going rate to UK workers and treat them right so that they feel appreciated instead of a number that can be replaced by a cheaper worker from Poland.

You probably have had no experience in these matters Happy but I have, my old boss openly admitted to exploiting the system, around eighty percent of staff were European and would only talk in their native tongue but their manager could speak English who would instruct them.

My boss said that he could get more out of the eastern Europeans and they would work extra hours to complete projects for no money whereas a British worker would rightly want paid overtime but he would say to their manager that if the project doesn't get completed then he would have to let most of them go and they would have to go back home to Europe, the scabby old get was a multi-millionaire so there was no need to behave like this other than greed.

It was a pretty caustic atmosphere and when a British worker left then a pal or relative of one of the eastern Europeans would come in, got to the point where they hated the British workers because they knew that if they could force them out they could get a relative in.

So there you go Happy - a story from the real world of how being in the EU doesn't work because it allows scumbags like that to operate freely and legally, there must have been lots like him as well so if not being in the EU curbs crap like this then I cannot se how you can defend it.

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24 Mar 2018 16:32 - 24 Mar 2018 16:39 #319 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

munchymagic wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


He got it bang on the head bogey lad.

One thing that I will never understand from the remainers is that the NHS is on its arse so why accept more people in to freely roam on their own accord and you and your kin will suffer because of this - unless you are rich or a total hippy then this is just plain stupidity.

Neglect our own for total strangers who have put [censored] all in to the system making it harder for the regular person to get an appointment in a doctors or hospital.

Showing your ignorance bogey or maybe you are rich and don't give a [censored].

The idiot things is to blame immigration for the NHS being a state, but of cause you'll think that because the biggest papers in this country are the Sun and daily Mail, they aren't going to tell you that's it's because of conservative underfunding, also this idea that immigrants put nothing into our economy is not true is just bolloxs, it's a fact that they are a net gain to the economy,. The problem with you is if you like the sound of something you'll believe it even if it is bolloxs , but when facts state otherwise you don't believe them as you don't like the sound of it, when we leave people are going to look new thing to blame
Would controlled immigration be better of cause, but leaving the EU will not fix our NHS , at all , we'll still have a rapidly aging population , a lack of nurses as people don't want to join since the bursaries were cut and a lack of skilled doctors as the best head around for better money.


The NHS has been in a state for years but it is a fact that if you add x amount of extra people needing treating then make cuts to the NHS then it is obvious what the outcome will be.

Common sense really regardless what any newspaper will tell you.

And as for foreign nurses/doctors etc then there was nothing wrong with the old system where if they can find employment or can prove that they can support themselves then they get a visa which they need to renew every year - no different to what the Australians do.

As for being not enough workers for the jobs needed then employers will just need to pay the going rate to UK workers and treat them right so that they feel appreciated instead of a number that can be replaced by a cheaper worker from Poland.

You probably have had no experience in these matters Happy but I have, my old boss openly admitted to exploiting the system, around eighty percent of staff were European and would only talk in their native tongue but their manager could speak English who would instruct them.

My boss said that he could get more out of the eastern Europeans and they would work extra hours to complete projects for no money whereas a British worker would rightly want paid overtime but he would say to their manager that if the project doesn't get completed then he would have to let most of them go and they would have to go back home to Europe, the scabby old get was a multi-millionaire so there was no need to behave like this other than greed.

It was a pretty caustic atmosphere and when a British worker left then a pal or relative of one of the eastern Europeans would come in, got to the point where they hated the British workers because they knew that if they could force them out they could get a relative in.

So there you go Happy - a story from the real world of how being in the EU doesn't work because it allows scumbags like that to operate freely and legally, there must have been lots like him as well so if not being in the EU curbs crap like this then I cannot se how you can defend it.

Munchy you don't talk common sense you just talk nosesne , ignore all the facts as it sounds inconvenient to you and your view point, all the evidence shows that the NHS has actually gained from immigration, through better skilled nurses, better skilled doctors who come in from the EU , but like usual you ignore the actually facts and just assume everything , it's all you seem to do and your incredibly bad at it, also stop assuming bolloxs about me , I've worked since I was 15, lived in multiple cities ,studied in a area in which this country is making (where it's was quite clear that the knowledge of overseas students and ability are generally far above us ) traveled too mutiple countries , worked with people from all over the world , I can tell you one thing for a fact if this , btw I'm defending the EU I'm just calling bolloxs that the blaming immigrants is the call of people who don't have the brains not to believe what the tabloid tell them, as for you I assume you've lived in the same place your entire life , you've not expirnced the real world just your tiny corner of it .

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Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 16:39 by Happyblue.

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24 Mar 2018 16:42 #320 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


He got it bang on the head bogey lad.

One thing that I will never understand from the remainers is that the NHS is on its arse so why accept more people in to freely roam on their own accord and you and your kin will suffer because of this - unless you are rich or a total hippy then this is just plain stupidity.

Neglect our own for total strangers who have put [censored] all in to the system making it harder for the regular person to get an appointment in a doctors or hospital.

Showing your ignorance bogey or maybe you are rich and don't give a [censored].

The idiot things is to blame immigration for the NHS being a state, but of cause you'll think that because the biggest papers in this country are the Sun and daily Mail, they aren't going to tell you that's it's because of conservative underfunding, also this idea that immigrants put nothing into our economy is not true is just bolloxs, it's a fact that they are a net gain to the economy,. The problem with you is if you like the sound of something you'll believe it even if it is bolloxs , but when facts state otherwise you don't believe them as you don't like the sound of it, when we leave people are going to look new thing to blame
Would controlled immigration be better of cause, but leaving the EU will not fix our NHS , at all , we'll still have a rapidly aging population , a lack of nurses as people don't want to join since the bursaries were cut and a lack of skilled doctors as the best head around for better money.


The NHS has been in a state for years but it is a fact that if you add x amount of extra people needing treating then make cuts to the NHS then it is obvious what the outcome will be.

Common sense really regardless what any newspaper will tell you.

And as for foreign nurses/doctors etc then there was nothing wrong with the old system where if they can find employment or can prove that they can support themselves then they get a visa which they need to renew every year - no different to what the Australians do.

As for being not enough workers for the jobs needed then employers will just need to pay the going rate to UK workers and treat them right so that they feel appreciated instead of a number that can be replaced by a cheaper worker from Poland.

You probably have had no experience in these matters Happy but I have, my old boss openly admitted to exploiting the system, around eighty percent of staff were European and would only talk in their native tongue but their manager could speak English who would instruct them.

My boss said that he could get more out of the eastern Europeans and they would work extra hours to complete projects for no money whereas a British worker would rightly want paid overtime but he would say to their manager that if the project doesn't get completed then he would have to let most of them go and they would have to go back home to Europe, the scabby old get was a multi-millionaire so there was no need to behave like this other than greed.

It was a pretty caustic atmosphere and when a British worker left then a pal or relative of one of the eastern Europeans would come in, got to the point where they hated the British workers because they knew that if they could force them out they could get a relative in.

So there you go Happy - a story from the real world of how being in the EU doesn't work because it allows scumbags like that to operate freely and legally, there must have been lots like him as well so if not being in the EU curbs crap like this then I cannot se how you can defend it.

Munchy you don't talk common sense you just talk nosesne , ignore all the facts as it sounds inconvenient to you and your view point, all the evidence shows that the NHS has actually gained from immigration, through better skilled nurses, better skilled doctors who come in from the EU , but like usual you ignore the actually facts and just assume everything , it's all you seem to do and your incredibly bad at it .


I give you fact Happy and not something I learned from Google or whatever.

And the NHS has gained from the extra people putting strain on the NHS has it?

So you think that the visa system is not a better idea or do you see it as racist?

From your point of view I see where you are coming from, it is like talking to my eldest lad who has his views and him and his mates share them but aren't based on real life experiences - maybe once real life catches up with you then you will see sense, you cannot learn this off Google unfortunately.

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24 Mar 2018 16:53 - 24 Mar 2018 16:59 #321 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

munchymagic wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


He got it bang on the head bogey lad.

One thing that I will never understand from the remainers is that the NHS is on its arse so why accept more people in to freely roam on their own accord and you and your kin will suffer because of this - unless you are rich or a total hippy then this is just plain stupidity.

Neglect our own for total strangers who have put [censored] all in to the system making it harder for the regular person to get an appointment in a doctors or hospital.

Showing your ignorance bogey or maybe you are rich and don't give a [censored].

The idiot things is to blame immigration for the NHS being a state, but of cause you'll think that because the biggest papers in this country are the Sun and daily Mail, they aren't going to tell you that's it's because of conservative underfunding, also this idea that immigrants put nothing into our economy is not true is just bolloxs, it's a fact that they are a net gain to the economy,. The problem with you is if you like the sound of something you'll believe it even if it is bolloxs , but when facts state otherwise you don't believe them as you don't like the sound of it, when we leave people are going to look new thing to blame
Would controlled immigration be better of cause, but leaving the EU will not fix our NHS , at all , we'll still have a rapidly aging population , a lack of nurses as people don't want to join since the bursaries were cut and a lack of skilled doctors as the best head around for better money.


The NHS has been in a state for years but it is a fact that if you add x amount of extra people needing treating then make cuts to the NHS then it is obvious what the outcome will be.

Common sense really regardless what any newspaper will tell you.

And as for foreign nurses/doctors etc then there was nothing wrong with the old system where if they can find employment or can prove that they can support themselves then they get a visa which they need to renew every year - no different to what the Australians do.

As for being not enough workers for the jobs needed then employers will just need to pay the going rate to UK workers and treat them right so that they feel appreciated instead of a number that can be replaced by a cheaper worker from Poland.

You probably have had no experience in these matters Happy but I have, my old boss openly admitted to exploiting the system, around eighty percent of staff were European and would only talk in their native tongue but their manager could speak English who would instruct them.

My boss said that he could get more out of the eastern Europeans and they would work extra hours to complete projects for no money whereas a British worker would rightly want paid overtime but he would say to their manager that if the project doesn't get completed then he would have to let most of them go and they would have to go back home to Europe, the scabby old get was a multi-millionaire so there was no need to behave like this other than greed.

It was a pretty caustic atmosphere and when a British worker left then a pal or relative of one of the eastern Europeans would come in, got to the point where they hated the British workers because they knew that if they could force them out they could get a relative in.

So there you go Happy - a story from the real world of how being in the EU doesn't work because it allows scumbags like that to operate freely and legally, there must have been lots like him as well so if not being in the EU curbs crap like this then I cannot se how you can defend it.

Munchy you don't talk common sense you just talk nosesne , ignore all the facts as it sounds inconvenient to you and your view point, all the evidence shows that the NHS has actually gained from immigration, through better skilled nurses, better skilled doctors who come in from the EU , but like usual you ignore the actually facts and just assume everything , it's all you seem to do and your incredibly bad at it .


I give you fact Happy and not something I learned from Google or whatever.

And the NHS has gained from the extra people putting strain on the NHS has it?

So you think that the visa system is not a better idea or do you see it as racist?

From your point of view I see where you are coming from, it is like talking to my eldest lad who has his views and him and his mates share them but aren't based on real life experiences - maybe once real life catches up with you then you will see sense, you cannot learn this off Google unfortunately.

Thats not a fact assumption again learn the difference , also again, I've worked with these people, managed projects with these people , designed stuff with medical professionals had discussions on this , stop talking rubbish about what I've have expirenced. As it's far far more than you think, I've got no problem with regulated immigration what I'm correct is the bolloxs about them putting extra straight on the NHS as the benefits out weigh the negatives significantly. Put down the mail, put down the sun and ask doctors what they think , go to the care homes look at who are the people looking after the elderly , maybe you'll learn something, I'm sick of people like you on this forum using an age in debates where it's clearly not viable with age comes expirences but it's also comes with greater biases, arrogance. Maybe travel to other countries find out why they do it better than us, you talk about Australia but have you ever looked at how big the immigrant population is compared to ours there , it's a far larger percentage of the population , it's just as the population grew and taxable income got bigger that built new facilities, we live in the age of information you just chose to ignore it.

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24 Mar 2018 17:00 #322 by Blues86
Replied by Blues86 on topic The Brexit Thread

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


Must have been a different referendum campaign I was watching. Because I remember George Osbourne saying there would need to be an immediate emergency budget with tax hikes and spending cuts, I remember David Cameron implying ww3 loomed talking about rows of white headstones and I remember Alan Johnson saying 3 million jobs were directly linked to the eu that we would lose.

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24 Mar 2018 17:04 #323 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

Blues86 wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


Must have been a different referendum campaign I was watching. Because I remember George Osbourne saying there would need to be an immediate emergency budget with tax hikes and spending cuts, I remember David Cameron implying ww3 loomed talking about rows of white headstones and I remember Alan Johnson saying 3 million jobs were directly linked to the eu that we would lose.

We haven't felt the major impact yet as we haven't left yet, that's quite bloody simple.

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24 Mar 2018 18:31 #324 by Blues86
Replied by Blues86 on topic The Brexit Thread
Could be the case happy, although id guess thats not going to happen. Either way, the exaggeration and hyperbole was on both sides, something remainers tend to overlook and just harp on about the nhs bus.

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24 Mar 2018 19:43 #325 by Ibogaine
Replied by Ibogaine on topic The Brexit Thread

Blues86 wrote:

Ibogaine wrote:

Blues86 wrote: And some the remain side said wed all be unemployed and in a massive recession by now. That didn't happen either. Politician exaggerates shocker, hold the front page. All this whinging, its happening, were leaving, lets just get on with it.


Did they? Don't think so

He talks out his arse
He talks out his arrrrrssseee
Blues86
He talks out his arse


Must have been a different referendum campaign I was watching. Because I remember George Osbourne saying there would need to be an immediate emergency budget with tax hikes and spending cuts, I remember David Cameron implying ww3 loomed talking about rows of white headstones and I remember Alan Johnson saying 3 million jobs were directly linked to the eu that we would lose.


Ive amended your post to make it more accurate. You flipping Mavis

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24 Mar 2018 19:51 - 24 Mar 2018 19:53 #326 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread

Dancingbear wrote:

Bruntonpasty wrote: Are we creating so many jobs in this country that we need so many foreign workers? there's still a million and a half on our dole queue remember, are they just abandoned/left to their own devices? It's not just investment in the NHS that's needed, it's money for further education rather than higher ed all the time.

The beds thing is correct, but lets not forget which party was in power when a smaller hospital was built in Carlisle.




Aye but under the tories who are trying their best to move services from west cumberland they must think its certainly big enough if not too big or they wouldnt be doing it.


How's that db? Last time I looked its the North Cumbria Hospital Trust that decides how to manage WCH and Cumberland Infirmary..... And they are skint thanks to Mr Eric Martlew Labour MP and his PFI hospital we'll be paying for for ever and a day!

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Last edit: 24 Mar 2018 19:53 by seesaw50.
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24 Mar 2018 22:49 #327 by Blues86
Replied by Blues86 on topic The Brexit Thread
Some on all sides ibo. I can respect some people wanted to leave because they believe its in our best interests, the same as why others wanted to remain. I dont say they are talking out their arses. You vote for what you want, the other half are unhappy, thats democracy.

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24 Mar 2018 23:31 #328 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Brexit Thread

Blues86 wrote: Some on all sides ibo. I can respect some people wanted to leave because they believe its in our best interests, the same as why others wanted to remain. I dont say they are talking out their arses. You vote for what you want, the other half are unhappy, thats democracy.


I was definitely 50/50 until Cameron and Osbourne decided to spend millions of tax payers money telling us the end of the World was nigh if we voted to leave. Its those two [censored] who want blaming for whatever happens next the pair of shits.

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29 Mar 2018 23:58 #329 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic The Brexit Thread

seesaw50 wrote: How many years now have we been discussing the problems of the NHS????? It needs a cross party working group going Trust by Trust around the country doing a total weeding out of wasteful working practices....staffing in non nursing roles ....and procurement contracts of everything from lightbulbs to drugs to the most state if the art equipment .


Oh blimey.....looks like a "cross party working group " is being set up by the government to sort out the NHS
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

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30 Mar 2018 01:38 #330 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

seesaw50 wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: How many years now have we been discussing the problems of the NHS????? It needs a cross party working group going Trust by Trust around the country doing a total weeding out of wasteful working practices....staffing in non nursing roles ....and procurement contracts of everything from lightbulbs to drugs to the most state if the art equipment .


Oh blimey.....looks like a "cross party working group " is being set up by the government to sort out the NHS
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:


Should be nothing to do with the government

Should be just run by a management board of people the public trust [ i wouldnt object to Portillo for instance despite his past ]

Who then tell the government of the day how much cash they have to stump up each year to make it work properly.
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30 Mar 2018 02:00 #331 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The Brexit Thread
Intelligent bloke Portillo though by suggesting him you are confusing the folk who love to throw the homophobic card Barry :)

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30 Mar 2018 11:10 - 30 Mar 2018 11:12 #332 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

munchymagic wrote: Intelligent bloke Portillo though by suggesting him you are confusing the folk who love to throw the homophobic card Barry :)

Difference between Portillo and you when he makes a comment about brexit he actually checks to make sure it's true, you don't you just make crap up , I've always been in favour of a cross part policy in the NHS , I've even said mutiple times on here. if we want to compete on a world stage after brexit , we need a healthy work force.

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Last edit: 30 Mar 2018 11:12 by Happyblue.

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30 Mar 2018 12:02 - 30 Mar 2018 12:02 #333 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Intelligent bloke Portillo though by suggesting him you are confusing the folk who love to throw the homophobic card Barry :)

Difference between Portillo and you when he makes a comment about brexit he actually checks to make sure it's true, you don't you just make crap up , I've always been in favour of a cross part policy in the NHS , I've even said mutiple times on here. if we want to compete on a world stage after brexit , we need a healthy work force.


Funny that. because i.ve been advocating the same since before you were in Nappies Happyland

So [censored] right off and go and jump on some other bandwagon eh
Last edit: 30 Mar 2018 12:02 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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30 Mar 2018 12:31 - 30 Mar 2018 12:32 #334 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Intelligent bloke Portillo though by suggesting him you are confusing the folk who love to throw the homophobic card Barry :)

Difference between Portillo and you when he makes a comment about brexit he actually checks to make sure it's true, you don't you just make crap up , I've always been in favour of a cross part policy in the NHS , I've even said mutiple times on here. if we want to compete on a world stage after brexit , we need a healthy work force.


Funny that. because i.ve been advocating the same since before you were in Nappies Happyland

So [censored] right off and go and jump on some other bandwagon eh

Nope, I'm not going to be told to [censored] off by someone like you.

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Last edit: 30 Mar 2018 12:32 by Happyblue.

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30 Mar 2018 12:33 #335 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Brexit Thread
What’s Portillos view on driver only trains?

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30 Mar 2018 12:45 #336 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The Brexit Thread

Dancingbear wrote: What’s Portillos view on driver only trains?


If I remember correctly he believes there are places where they are acceptable [ London Underground ] and places they aren't [ Northern ]
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22 Jun 2018 11:36 #337 by whytakemypostcode
Replied by whytakemypostcode on topic The Brexit Thread
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44570931

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22 Jun 2018 11:44 #338 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic The Brexit Thread
WHAT THEY ARENT TELLING YOU IS THAT AN EU_FREE BRITAIN WON'T NEED THESE SO-CALLED PLANES, EVERYONE WILL TRAVEL BY SUBMARINE OR TEA CLIPPER LIKE IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN EVERYONE HAD TYPHOID AND DIED AT 50

(before northern 'in the know' soul gets here)

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22 Jun 2018 11:53 #339 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic The Brexit Thread
Second anniversary of brexit vote tomorrow btw. I take it everything's done and dusted and in no way has it turned out to be an unimaginably complicated clusterfuck inflicted on us by the uninformed and exacerbated by back-stabbing politicians as predicted by many?
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22 Jun 2018 12:24 #340 by pacirv
Replied by pacirv on topic The Brexit Thread
The reality and outcome of brexit will hit a lot of the people who voted out, they and the test of us may pay a hefty price for the result of the blatant lies told to us all by the self interested politicians who sold us the lies.

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22 Jun 2018 13:09 #341 by jelly
Replied by jelly on topic The Brexit Thread
Problem is that there were lies on both sides. Most of the people who voted out don't really care that the country will take an economic hit as a result of Brexit as they are convinced that things will somehow be better from their perspective. You've just got to hope that the EU realise they'll be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't give us a reasonable deal.

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22 Jun 2018 13:24 #342 by Northumbrian
Replied by Northumbrian on topic The Brexit Thread

pacirv wrote: The reality and outcome of brexit will hit a lot of the people who voted out, they and the test of us may pay a hefty price for the result of the blatant lies told to us all by the self interested politicians who sold us the lies.

Then again they MAY not. Personally I believe we will be better off in the long term... it was always going to be massively difficult to split from the EU...particularly when they want the process to fail so that other countries don't follow suit. Just because something is difficult and uncertain doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

There were massive lies told on both sides of the debate so let's not pretend it was only leave with their bus... the claim that we'd plunge into immediate recession straight after the vote has proven to be an utter lie, as has the claim that we'd be £4,300 worse off per family after a leave vote. There are suspicions about dodgy fundraising from leave... but let's not forget that the remain campaign used £9m of public money to print and leaflet most UK households. The campaign showed all politicians, whatever side they were on, to be a bunch of liars.

I certainly haven't changed my mind that voting leave was the correct thing for this country, despite all of the scare mongering. For me self-determination as a country is crucial in a changing world. We have to be able to negotiate trade deals on our own as the EU has shown it is crap at getting all 27 of its members to agree on major trade deals. Chile has access to a global free trade market place over 5 times larger than any EU state does in GDP terms... that highlights the trade deal issue the EU has.

I also still want us to be able control our own immigration so that we can base it purely on skills and need, rather than on where a person comes from.

I doubt it will get any easier in the next 4 or 5 years but I'm firmly of the belief that the long term result of having self determination is worth a bit of short term economic pain and political uncertainty. Remember most worst case predictions are now saying that the economy will still grow, just potentially not as fast as it would have.

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22 Jun 2018 14:32 #343 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Brexit Thread
Hang on a minute. If we’re gonna be worse off where’s this 20 billion a year funded in some part by a Brexit dividend boost to the nhs coming from?. Mrs May wasn’t being a bit disingenuous was she?

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22 Jun 2018 14:39 #344 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic The Brexit Thread
If you want British to mean anything, we need to be free from a Federalised Europe.

The Closed Shop that is the fat lazy EU is no longer fit for purpose, for those who have made the UK's departure so difficult, they will reap what they sow as other Countries leave the bubble of Brussels after seeing our prosperity away from the Club.

The World is changing fast, the EU is not.
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22 Jun 2018 14:43 #345 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic The Brexit Thread

Dancingbear wrote: Hang on a minute. If we’re gonna be worse off where’s this 20 billion a year funded in some part by a Brexit dividend boost to the nhs coming from?. Mrs May wasn’t being a bit disingenuous was she?

As stated at the time it will be funded in tax rises, We'll find out what these tax increases will be in the next budget.

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22 Jun 2018 15:16 #346 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The Brexit Thread

thesilentone wrote: If you want British to mean anything, we need to be free from a Federalised Europe.

The Closed Shop that is the fat lazy EU is no longer fit for purpose, for those who have made the UK's departure so difficult, they will reap what they sow as other Countries leave the bubble of Brussels after seeing our prosperity away from the Club.

The World is changing fast, the EU is not.


See, you can talk sense... ;)

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22 Jun 2018 15:31 #347 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic The Brexit Thread

Happyblue wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: Hang on a minute. If we’re gonna be worse off where’s this 20 billion a year funded in some part by a Brexit dividend boost to the nhs coming from?. Mrs May wasn’t being a bit disingenuous was she?

As stated at the time it will be funded in tax rises, We'll find out what these tax increases will be in the next budget.


The point is they werent pushing it as a tax rise they were pushing it as a Brexit dividend with a bit of a tax rise when the experts say its totally the opposite. I know you cant trust politicians but this government takes the biscuit. Promise at the last election they wont raise taxes now theyre gonna do the exact opposite. The latest is they wont allow their MPs a free vote on the Heathrow expansion. One front bencher has stood down because he opposes it whilst the foreign secretary who also opposes it is conveniently out of the country so doesnt have to either stand down or vote against the government and get sacked. Theyre a absolute shambles, its just a shame the opposition arent strong enough to to much about it.

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22 Jun 2018 15:37 #348 by orfc
Replied by orfc on topic The Brexit Thread

thesilentone wrote: If you want British to mean anything, we need to be free from a Federalised Europe.

The Closed Shop that is the fat lazy EU is no longer fit for purpose, for those who have made the UK's departure so difficult, they will reap what they sow as other Countries leave the bubble of Brussels after seeing our prosperity away from the Club.

The World is changing fast, the EU is not.



Said with the kind of unerring conviction you get from a glaswegian tramp on his 4th can of special :-)


Anyways I though the brexiteer's main moan was the eu had changed to much... 28 countries not 12, trade bloc now a politicial superstate, bent bananas, pints and ounces not litres and grams, jumpers for goalposts, the good old days, typhoid, jimmy savile etc

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22 Jun 2018 17:14 #349 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic The Brexit Thread

orfc wrote:

thesilentone wrote: If you want British to mean anything, we need to be free from a Federalised Europe.

The Closed Shop that is the fat lazy EU is no longer fit for purpose, for those who have made the UK's departure so difficult, they will reap what they sow as other Countries leave the bubble of Brussels after seeing our prosperity away from the Club.

The World is changing fast, the EU is not.



Said with the kind of unerring conviction you get from a glaswegian tramp on his 4th can of special :-)


Anyways I though the brexiteer's main moan was the eu had changed to much... 28 countries not 12, trade bloc now a politicial superstate, bent bananas, pints and ounces not litres and grams, jumpers for goalposts, the good old days, typhoid, jimmy savile etc



...............exactly, bxxxcks to Airbus, the future is Vulcans, Lancasters and Spitfires !!

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22 Jun 2018 17:22 #350 by Yorkie Blue
Replied by Yorkie Blue on topic The Brexit Thread
I don`t think the main moan of the folk that voted to leave the EU is about bent bananas (though there`s plenty of them in the EU), good old days, jumpers for goalposts, etc, it`s more about not being part of a lumbering, over bureaucratic, unresponsive, sclerotic, dodgy organisation that can`t keep its accounts up to date.
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