Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

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06 Jan 2020 10:38 #101 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Sorry you can’t get away with ‘of course the Lonsdale should have been converted into a theatre’.

Show your workings please. No of seats, stage size, access, parking, programme, space to accommodate catering and ancillary facilities, tech spec, marketing plans, advertising budget, audience reach targets, required attendance per head of population, plans for dark days, staffing costs, show a case that Carlisle/Cumbria can actually support a theatre of a size that would be viable and how this all fits on to the Lonsdale site.

You need to do this really or you’ll just be another one of the morons who kept moaning on about how the Lonsdale should have been converted back into a theatre without the first idea of what would be required and how much all that would cost.

I’ll wait.
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06 Jan 2020 11:04 #102 by Arragorn
Replied by Arragorn on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
We used to have a proper Theatre in the City. Demolished sometime in the 1970's I think

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06 Jan 2020 11:23 #103 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

Moylesey wrote: Sorry you can’t get away with ‘of course the Lonsdale should have been converted into a theatre’.

Show your workings please. No of seats, stage size, access, parking, programme, space to accommodate catering and ancillary facilities, tech spec, marketing plans, advertising budget, audience reach targets, required attendance per head of population, plans for dark days, staffing costs, show a case that Carlisle/Cumbria can actually support a theatre of a size that would be viable and how this all fits on to the Lonsdale site.

You need to do this really or you’ll just be another one of the morons who kept moaning on about how the Lonsdale should have been converted back into a theatre without the first idea of what would be required and how much all that would cost.

I’ll wait.


Plenty cities have refurbed old cinemas and theatres into thriving venues eg Darlington, a town about the size of Carlisle.....our Council were against any involvement with The Lonsdale BECAUSE they operate the Sands and for a city this size probably took the view both couldnt be sustained....plus they didnt have the money....however they appear to have found some to extend what is by any stretch, only a sports centre. IF its still on the cards

Not sure what you're rattled about ....unless some entrepreneurs think building a theatre on the Plaza site is a goer for the future it ain't gonna happen.....is it?
Not "No Ambition " from me.......plain fact.

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06 Jan 2020 11:26 #104 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
PS I'd cut down on the caffeine if I were you Moylsey..its only Monday morning

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06 Jan 2020 11:30 #105 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

Arragorn wrote: We used to have a proper Theatre in the City. Demolished sometime in the 1970's I think


There were over half a dozen.
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06 Jan 2020 11:38 #106 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
“They could have converted the old Lonsdale but didnt want to know“.

Not true. The Council spent considerable time and effort engaging with two separate sets of theatrical consultants on both a 500 seat and 1,800 seat option for the Lonsdale and both were viewed as unviable.

Despite this there are still folk who think they know better based on their ‘huge experience‘ of theatre development.

What is it about Carlisle folk that gets them from ’I think’ to ‘therefore it must be true’ without any rational thought?

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06 Jan 2020 11:41 #107 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

seesaw50 wrote: PS I'd cut down on the caffeine if I were you Moylsey..its only Monday morning


You don’t escape that easily Seesaw. Just calling you out for talking bollocks on something you clearly haven’t got a clue about - no change there then.

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06 Jan 2020 12:05 #108 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
This is better banter than the NS/Kessler scenario

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06 Jan 2020 12:31 #109 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

Moylesey wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: PS I'd cut down on the caffeine if I were you Moylsey..its only Monday morning


You don’t escape that easily Seesaw. Just calling you out for talking bollocks on something you clearly haven’t got a clue about - no change there then.


Am thinking you need moderated there Moylsey....people are getting scared of voicing an opinion on here atm.....too many smart folk who seem to think they have the only view.
Would have expected more from you mate.

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06 Jan 2020 12:36 #110 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
The only folk improving this town are private entrepreneurs..top of Warwick Road .....the Portland Square development.......The Council has no funds for big capital projects. It might have looked into a plan for the Lonsdale but not very deeply...too difficult...too costly.

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06 Jan 2020 12:37 #111 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

Waltero wrote: This is better banter than the NS/Kessler scenario


Without the vile language at least.

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06 Jan 2020 12:39 #112 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

Moylesey wrote:

Arragorn wrote: We used to have a proper Theatre in the City. Demolished sometime in the 1970's I think


There were over half a dozen.


But no Sands Centre
Shut in the Bingo Hall Era?...without becoming one itself

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06 Jan 2020 12:42 #113 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

seesaw50 wrote: The Council has no funds for big capital projects. It might have looked into a plan for the Lonsdale but not very deeply...too difficult...too costly.


This is completely and utterly a product of your imagination.

There is a difference between thinking something and thinking about something. Try it.

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06 Jan 2020 12:48 #114 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
What is?
Am trying to work out what your on about
Then you ask me to give "workings out" " venue size" crap
When I'd said the council wouldn't be building a theatre on the Plaza site.
Time for a lie down mate.

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06 Jan 2020 12:50 #115 by thesilentone
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Moylesey wrote: Sorry you can’t get away with ‘of course the Lonsdale should have been converted into a theatre’.

Show your workings please. No of seats, stage size, access, parking, programme, space to accommodate catering and ancillary facilities, tech spec, marketing plans, advertising budget, audience reach targets, required attendance per head of population, plans for dark days, staffing costs, show a case that Carlisle/Cumbria can actually support a theatre of a size that would be viable and how this all fits on to the Lonsdale site.

You need to do this really or you’ll just be another one of the morons who kept moaning on about how the Lonsdale should have been converted back into a theatre without the first idea of what would be required and how much all that would cost.

I’ll wait.


C'mon Man, chill out, I thought we'd entered a period of peace and goodwill to all Men, let's not debase it to name calling, you [censored] !

I'll do the feasibility and business plan for you, however there will be a charge, but this will be much less that what the Council would pay, so lets agree on £120,000. However this would be a tad pointless I think.

If your detailed request is anything to go by, I assume you either work for, or provide services to the Council, and judging by your attitude we can all see why Carlisle is such a dying City.

You sound like another group of people we are familiar with who take the same approach - all customers are Morons, sound familiar ?
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06 Jan 2020 12:53 #116 by heilkmoon
Replied by heilkmoon on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
The populace of Carlisle may have rattled doorhandles and pressed their drooling faces to the window for the opening of Nandos and aggressively double parked and littered for the opening of Burger King, but would they do the same for Pinter and Shakespeare?

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06 Jan 2020 13:04 #117 by High Street
Replied by High Street on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Demolition was the best thing that could have happened to The Lonsdale and The Plaza.

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06 Jan 2020 13:09 #118 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Show me the bit where I call all potential customers morons? The morons in this case are those that just splurged out ‘theatre’ and ‘Council’ (I’m not an employee btw) without actually either knowing anything about or doing any research into the actual issue. This then escalates in to the legend of an unambitious and backward Council and city - a bit like you’ve just done actually. There have been numerous letters to editors and numerous posts on here about west end shows at the Lonsdale week after week and 5,000 seater arenas and 50 metre pools all of which are completely out of proportion to what the city actually needs and more importantly can support. When people think the city should have these and they don’t appear, rather than consider they might be wrong they blame the Council for not being ambitious as opposed to considering that they may actually be wrong.

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06 Jan 2020 13:09 #119 by thesilentone
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So, what is the future for Carlisle ?

Another Northern outpost slowly dying due to the lack of investment and vision, or ' The Border City ' exploiting it's history traditions and culture to attract visitors from across the World ?

Romans, Reivers, Railways, C&DSMS, The Largest Munitions Factory in Europe, The Lakes, The Borders, The Solway Coast all easy to reach from Carlisle.

I'm sure we do daily trips and tours from Carlisle - not !

Or,

Botchergate, Codjergate, Takeaways, Pound Shops, Flooding and a Castle disconnected from the City.

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06 Jan 2020 13:10 #120 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Walked past this morning and they had a digger swinging a bucket load of rubble round to 3 blokes for them to sort through and divide into masonry, metal and wood. Could take a while!

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003

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06 Jan 2020 13:16 #121 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

thesilentone wrote: So, what is the future for Carlisle ?

Another Northern outpost slowly dying due to the lack of investment and vision, or ' The Border City ' exploiting it's history traditions and culture to attract visitors from across the World ?

Romans, Reivers, Railways, C&DSMS, The Largest Munitions Factory in Europe, The Lakes, The Borders, The Solway Coast all easy to reach from Carlisle.

I'm sure we do daily trips and tours from Carlisle - not !

Or,

Botchergate, Codjergate, Takeaways, Pound Shops, Flooding and a Castle disconnected from the City.


Could not agree more with this but pipe dreams of things that are not sustainable in a huge geographical area with a small population are not the way to go. Heads are everything - see football clubs.

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06 Jan 2020 13:25 #122 by seesaw50
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So Moylsey.......what did you think I was saying if not exactly that.

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06 Jan 2020 13:27 #123 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

Moylesey wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: The Council has no funds for big capital projects. It might have looked into a plan for the Lonsdale but not very deeply...too difficult...too costly.


This is completely and utterly a product of your imagination.

There is a difference between thinking something and thinking about something. Try it.


???? No comprendo

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06 Jan 2020 13:30 #124 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

seesaw50 wrote:

Moylesey wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: The Council has no funds for big capital projects. It might have looked into a plan for the Lonsdale but not very deeply...too difficult...too costly.


This is completely and utterly a product of your imagination.

There is a difference between thinking something and thinking about something. Try it.


???? No comprendo


Clearly.

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06 Jan 2020 13:35 #125 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Ha ha ha
And the same to you

Another car park it is then

Next up the Civic Centre " rotunda "

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06 Jan 2020 13:36 #126 by thesilentone
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Exactly, therefore we need to be much more ahead with our thinking,

We NEED visitors, ask the people in Stratford upon Avon, which is a similar population to Carlisle.

We must be the only City that has a large Roman Camp, we know about, excavated then filled it in again !! ("not having any of them visitors here, wanting things and complaining")

Cycle routes, woodland walks, small villages, Carlisle is surrounded. Imagine a cycle route round by some of local villages, with good access and services.

At the moment we are dying, and until there is a change of people and attitude at both the City and County Council the downward trend will continue.
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06 Jan 2020 13:44 #127 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Nothing wrong with forward thinking as long as it on things that are sustainable and have the potential to succeed. Just because some things aren't viable that doesn’t automatically mean that the people who have considered investigated and discounted them are automatically unambitious and backward thinking.

A forward thinking ambitious Council might divert the road in front of the castle and build a Roman village in front of it linking it by a footbridge to the excavations under Edenside in the process. They could even build a section of Roman wall. People would come in their thousands for that. Think different and special as opposed to copying the big cities and building stuff that can’t be supported by a small local population.

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06 Jan 2020 13:54 #128 by PADDOCK
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The problem is people want the council to do this, that and the other but don't want to actually pay for these things to appear. They don't want their council tax to rise by the amount needed for all the pie-in-the-sky schemes.

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06 Jan 2020 13:56 #129 by thesilentone
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Exactly, the head of Lake District Authority proposes a ' more inclusive ' Lakes, this is on the back of good growth in visitor numbers since becoming a World Heritage Site.

All we have done so far is whinge, with the word ' can't ' featuring very strongly, typically Cumbrian.

Of all the overnight stays in Cumbria, Carlisle takes a paltry 19%, and if you stayed at the Hilltop and walked into the City, you may think Beirut would be a more friendly and welcoming option.

Well try 'can' for a change..........

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06 Jan 2020 14:00 #130 by PADDOCK
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Moylesey wrote: Nothing wrong with forward thinking as long as it on things that are sustainable and have the potential to succeed. Just because some things aren't viable that doesn’t automatically mean that the people who have considered investigated and discounted them are automatically unambitious and backward thinking.

A forward thinking ambitious Council might divert the road in front of the castle and build a Roman village in front of it linking it by a footbridge to the excavations under Edenside in the process. They could even build a section of Roman wall. People would come in their thousands for that. Think different and special as opposed to copying the big cities and building stuff that can’t be supported by a small local population.

Why would you need a footbridge, there's a very good footpath leading from the front of the castle to Edenside.

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06 Jan 2020 14:00 #131 by Moylesey
Replied by Moylesey on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure

seesaw50 wrote: Ha ha ha
And the same to you

Another car park it is then

Next up the Civic Centre " rotunda "


Okay. Once more for the hard of understanding.

You Said:

‘The Council could have converted the old Lonsdale but didn’t want to know’.

This is incorrect. They did want to know and looked at what could be done. They saw potential, investigated it using two independent companies with experience in the development of theatres who both said it was not viable to do.

You Said:

‘The Council has no funds for big capital projects’.

Yes it does. They are spending circa £25m on the Sands development and will develop the vacant pools site as part of the Borderlands scheme for a start.

If the Council had a list of projects that would guarantee to reduce its revenue costs or bring in significant contributions it could and should find the money.

Just stop saying things that pop into your head and hoping that they’re true. It will make your life simpler and save me a ton of time having to put you right.

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06 Jan 2020 14:05 #132 by thesilentone
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PADDOCK wrote: The problem is people want the council to do this, that and the other but don't want to actually pay for these things to appear. They don't want their council tax to rise by the amount needed for all the pie-in-the-sky schemes.


You should apply for the CEO's job at the Council, because I'm sure that's how his brain works. Footfall brings revenue, this revenue and increased footfall requires services and restaurants and shops and hotels and attractions and parking and entertainment.

Not only sustainable but profitable, where do you think the Councils revenue comes from ??

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06 Jan 2020 14:15 #133 by thesilentone
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Most if not all Council Cap-X schemes don't come from the operational budget (allthough they are allowed to put them in the balance sheet) In the past most the loot has come from the EU via central Government schemes, often delegated to specific funders, which you have to fight tooth and nail to get.

Politics is the order of the day with the Government of the day favouring there own Councils. (which is why many NE City's voted Tory)

Long winded bids for funding are time consuming, detailed and only then have a minimal chance of success, but some Councils are good at it, some are not.

I'll leave you to decide what ours is like.

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06 Jan 2020 16:10 #134 by NORTHERNSOUL
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Moylesey wrote: Sorry you can’t get away with ‘of course the Lonsdale should have been converted into a theatre’.

Show your workings please. No of seats, stage size, access, parking, programme, space to accommodate catering and ancillary facilities, tech spec, marketing plans, advertising budget, audience reach targets, required attendance per head of population, plans for dark days, staffing costs, show a case that Carlisle/Cumbria can actually support a theatre of a size that would be viable and how this all fits on to the Lonsdale site.

You need to do this really or you’ll just be another one of the morons who kept moaning on about how the Lonsdale should have been converted back into a theatre without the first idea of what would be required and how much all that would cost.

I’ll wait.


What difference does how much it would have cost made ?

If it could have been done with cash borrowed at virtually nill cost if they never paid the original sum back and just satisfied the interest payments it would just become an item on a balance sheet each year.

But I .ll tell you what it would have cost a lot less than that hair-brained scheme your lot and the city council are currently involved in.

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14 Feb 2020 17:08 #135 by CCU

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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14 Feb 2020 17:43 #136 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Victoria Viaduct emergency partial closure
Hope they've let Moylsey know and are involving him in any development!!

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