Stobart Group Internal Fighting

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14 Jun 2018 17:48 - 25 Nov 2018 11:51 #1 by CCU
Stobart Group Internal Fighting was created by CCU
All kicking off, Tinkler given notice from the Board...


Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 11:51 by CCU.

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14 Jun 2018 17:58 #2 by pacirv
Replied by pacirv on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Wonder if it will affect the airport, the company has spent a fortune on getting it up to scratch.

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14 Jun 2018 18:08 #3 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Yes it is quite unusual for a boardroom row to go public like this one. Full details will follow in a letter to shareholders. Interesting. Yesterday Stobart announced that they have attracted Ryanair to use London Southend airport from next year. To be fair London Stansted is running out of peak summer capacity so it probably suits Stansted and Ryanair to move some of the less profitable flights to Southend to make room for higher earning flights from Stansted. No surprise that routes to Cluj, Romania and Kosice, Slovakia are among those starting from Southend.

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14 Jun 2018 18:11 #4 by stu
Replied by stu on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
I bet farmer Brown is loving this...

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14 Jun 2018 20:53 - 14 Jun 2018 20:54 #5 by ExiledJock
Replied by ExiledJock on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Tinkler wants to get Philip Day onto the Stobart board. It's wheels within wheels.
Last edit: 14 Jun 2018 20:54 by ExiledJock.

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14 Jun 2018 21:16 #6 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

ExiledJock wrote: Tinkler wants to get Philip Day onto the Stobart board. It's wheels within wheels.


Cant see anything but a Tinkler victory, in the end, gonna be pretty hard going for the current board when 20 of the 22 top salaried execs want them gone as well and doubtfull sacking will even stand up in court as it appears they now control or have the support of the magical 25.1% of the shares

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14 Jun 2018 21:36 #7 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Thing is with Stobarts is that they don't want to pay the going wage for the job in hand, they got away with it in Carlisle in the past but they are now in a business field that they are not used to and is specialist and people will tell you to get stuffed if the money is not right.

Not into the airport for my own reasons but I understand that if it can bring wealth and jobs for the area then this can only be a good thing, pollution and noise is my objection.

An educated guess is that it costs more to run than was originally forecasted making it not a realistic concept and in reality would only be affordable for business people, the rail system is a massive success though and I think that air or water would be the next step for Stobarts, innovative but you have to have the right people with experience in place to pull it off.

I got the feeling that there was something afoot at Stobarts as their long serving top line managers and managers are all leaving and these folk bleed green.

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15 Jun 2018 02:56 #8 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Just read up on the extent of the story and it appears that it's a proper mess.

Don't know Mr Tinkler but I knew Edward and William and they were proper gents.

Stobarts is a local brand and a fantastic ambassador for the county so I hope that they can sort this out and not implode.

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15 Jun 2018 07:54 #9 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
"Trouble with Stobarts is they don't want to pay the going rate to the job".........Munchy did you see the starting wage for the Air Traffic Controllers....£14k. Joke, that's minimum wage. Never liked that Tinkler , just a gut feeling , never met him but always comes over as a scrap man made good

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

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15 Jun 2018 08:24 #10 by ExiledJock
Replied by ExiledJock on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Trainee ATC salary isn't great but quickly jumps on qualification. Imagine they may be struggling to get anyone to re-locate.

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15 Jun 2018 08:35 - 15 Jun 2018 08:36 #11 by nobbyblue
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munchymagic wrote: Just read up on the extent of the story and it appears that it's a proper mess.

Don't know Mr Tinkler but I knew Edward and William and they were proper gents.

Stobarts is a local brand and a fantastic ambassador for the county so I hope that they can sort this out and not implode.


Not sure if that's particularly true. My mate worked for them for years and could tell a few stories! :cheer:
Last edit: 15 Jun 2018 08:36 by nobbyblue.

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15 Jun 2018 10:29 #12 by sussexrob
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I have had the misfortune to have met Andrew Tinkler, and I can honestly say he is the most arrogant person on this earth. Hope he gets his comeuppance.

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15 Jun 2018 15:18 #13 by ParcelPete
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Out of interest Rob,have you met Steve Pattison?
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15 Jun 2018 15:21 - 15 Jun 2018 15:23 #14 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

sussexrob wrote: I have had the misfortune to have met Andrew Tinkler, and I can honestly say he is the most arrogant person on this earth. Hope he gets his comeuppance.


And do you think he got to where he is by letting people shit on him and being a retiring little soul ?

Had dealings with him about 10 years ago started off at daggers but once he realised he wasn't dealing with some bumpkin we got on fine and I liked the way he dealt with it instead of passing it to some minion and I can tell you he certainly knew how to lay on a party.

And at the time he certainly wasn't Storys biggest fan
Last edit: 15 Jun 2018 15:23 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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15 Jun 2018 15:36 #15 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Shock horror the owner of a rail maintenance company WA developments isnt best mates with the boss of arch rival firm StoryRail. We'd never have guessed that one.

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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15 Jun 2018 15:41 #16 by Bruntonpasty
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A Tinkler/Stobart party? Hmmmm....... heard about them! Eastern european ladies on the invite list was what I was told, amongst other things..........Might all have been bullshit mind? But a house up Wordsworth Street Penrith was a venue I'm told?

They don't like it up 'em!

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15 Jun 2018 15:42 #17 by CCU
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Dancingbear wrote: Shock horror the owner of a rail maintenance company WA developments isnt best mates with the boss of arch rival firm StoryRail. We'd never have guessed that one.


WA disappeared into Stobart Rail years ago DB.

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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15 Jun 2018 15:43 #18 by CCU
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Bruntonpasty wrote: A Tinkler/Stobart party? Hmmmm....... heard about them! Eastern european ladies on the invite list was what I was told, amongst other things..........Might all have been bullshit mind? But a house up Wordsworth Street Penrith was a venue I'm told?


WA do hold some rights to Mothercare in Ukraine, sounds a right Fet Club.

Ere Barry, might be a chance to expand here!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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15 Jun 2018 15:47 #19 by Dancingbear
Replied by Dancingbear on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

CCU wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: Shock horror the owner of a rail maintenance company WA developments isnt best mates with the boss of arch rival firm StoryRail. We'd never have guessed that one.


WA disappeared into Stobart Rail years ago DB.


Aye i know, Me mate used to work for them now and again ;) Took him to a WA christmas do at Rheged once. He said it was a bloody brilliant night but sadly threw up in my car when i was driving him home :sick: :sick: :sick:

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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15 Jun 2018 16:21 #20 by sussexrob
Replied by sussexrob on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
In reply to parcel pete......yes I have met Steve Patt, although arrogant , I just regard him as a total [censored] to be honest.
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15 Jun 2018 16:31 #21 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

sussexrob wrote: In reply to parcel pete......yes I have met Steve Patt, although arrogant , I just regard him as a total [censored] to be honest.


Now theres a man with nothing to be arrogant about

I cant watch David Jason in open all hours without thinking about old Patty and his office in the janitor's cupboard at Carlisle Glass
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16 Jun 2018 16:44 #22 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Another ding dong in the FT today-pretty unseemly on both sides. The suggestion is that Andrew Tinkler is a deal maker but his deals don’t generate much operating cash.I have never figured out how Stobarts historically operated on such thin margins but AT was always able to create profits from deals to generate profit.Maybe he should go a run Neil Woodford’s Fund which is struggling-that would be a great move.

PD gets a mention of course but he has issued the usual ‘no comment’The problem for both is this is a big Plc and the Chairman isn’t supposed to be mates with the CEO on independence grounds.

It’s a shame as the Southend Airport punt has become a reality with Ryanair and it’s being lost in the soap opera.

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16 Jun 2018 19:12 #23 by stu
Replied by stu on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
AT is out of his depth maybe.

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16 Jun 2018 19:24 #24 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

stu wrote: AT is out of his depth maybe.


If they had stuck to the road and rail where they were king then there would not have been a problem.

Branching out is a dangerous world in an area where you have no real idea of how it works, easy to get stitched up when you try to take over the air, so many have tried and failed in the past so unless you are not going to throw money at it initially then you are likely to fail.

With shareholders to appease then the postponement of the flights will have sent a nervousness to all involved, especially when it seems that they are trying to do it on the cheap.

Stobart Group would have been better off accepting the reasons that the farmer gave them, would have saved a lot of money and face.

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16 Jun 2018 21:09 #25 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Not sure about that Stu-CEOs are there to create value and AT seems to have achieved that but perhaps not in a conventional way.

The current CEO is correct in noting that AT didn’t create strong operating cashflow-he is more of a deal maker which creates capital value.The City struggle with this notion as it prefers steady cashflows,dividend growth and a settled BOD.Stobart is too unstable on these fronts.

I’m sure it will get sorted out but it’s not great seeing the linen washed in the national papers on a daily basis.

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02 Jul 2018 06:29 #26 by CCU
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All going on still, even Boyzone’s Ronan Keating has had his say!

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/articl...outhend-airport.html

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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02 Jul 2018 09:20 #27 by Dancingbear
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CCU wrote: All going on still, even Boyzone’s Ronan Keating has had his say!

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/articl...outhend-airport.html


Ffs he’s upset at what they’re calling Tinkler. Someone tell him it’s only words!!!

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!
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02 Jul 2018 16:46 #28 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Ronan solo and Boyzone were 'privately' hired by Tinkler and William for their Stobart end of year bashes quite often so that's why he has jumped on the bandwagon as he used to take wads of their cash.

William particularly liked that Chico bloke of 'Chico Time' fame and they used to hire him too.

Confusing when you read that article when it says William has attacked Stobart or criticized them being that he is William Stobart himself :)

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02 Jul 2018 17:00 #29 by NORTHERNSOUL
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munchymagic wrote: Ronan solo and Boyzone were 'privately' hired by Tinkler and William for their Stobart end of year bashes quite often so that's why he has jumped on the bandwagon as he used to take wads of their cash.

William particularly liked that Chico bloke of 'Chico Time' fame and they used to hire him too.

Confusing when you read that article when it says William has attacked Stobart or criticized them being that he is William Stobart himself :)


Yes bloody awful reporting but then again what do you expect from the Mail on Sunday

With every day that goes by its looking more like a victory is coming for AT and WS particularly as Invesco are now recommending getting rid of the current chairman [ even if they are for appointing an interim and then appointing Day in 6 months ] the current guy must realise that hes toast.

Be good to get Day in as chairman and move the whole shebang back to Cumbria

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02 Jul 2018 17:35 #30 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Ronan solo and Boyzone were 'privately' hired by Tinkler and William for their Stobart end of year bashes quite often so that's why he has jumped on the bandwagon as he used to take wads of their cash.

William particularly liked that Chico bloke of 'Chico Time' fame and they used to hire him too.

Confusing when you read that article when it says William has attacked Stobart or criticized them being that he is William Stobart himself :)


Yes bloody awful reporting but then again what do you expect from the Mail on Sunday

With every day that goes by its looking more like a victory is coming for AT and WS particularly as Invesco are now recommending getting rid of the current chairman [ even if they are for appointing an interim and then appointing Day in 6 months ] the current guy must realise that hes toast.

Be good to get Day in as chairman and move the whole shebang back to Cumbria


If they were into their football then we would be laughing :)

If he has Day behind him then this puts Tinkler in a very strong position.

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02 Jul 2018 19:09 #31 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting

munchymagic wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Ronan solo and Boyzone were 'privately' hired by Tinkler and William for their Stobart end of year bashes quite often so that's why he has jumped on the bandwagon as he used to take wads of their cash.

William particularly liked that Chico bloke of 'Chico Time' fame and they used to hire him too.

Confusing when you read that article when it says William has attacked Stobart or criticized them being that he is William Stobart himself :)


Yes bloody awful reporting but then again what do you expect from the Mail on Sunday

With every day that goes by its looking more like a victory is coming for AT and WS particularly as Invesco are now recommending getting rid of the current chairman [ even if they are for appointing an interim and then appointing Day in 6 months ] the current guy must realise that hes toast.

Be good to get Day in as chairman and move the whole shebang back to Cumbria


If they were into their football then we would be laughing :)

If he has Day behind him then this puts Tinkler in a very strong position.


It's Woodward and Invesco who will decide which way it goes between them and AT and WS they have 60% of the shares

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02 Jul 2018 20:38 #32 by Laffy
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I reckon the current Board will win this one.If AT wants it that bad, he should make a bid for the group with Woodward backing him.Problem is it would be difficult to finance a bid with debt given it doesn’t generate much operational cashflow.That means a new listed PLC vehicle or massive amounts of equity.

I’ve always thought the group is worth more if split into individual bits

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12 Nov 2018 11:49 #33 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
High court case starts today,Phillip Day is due to be called up as a witness,should be interesting.

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12 Nov 2018 12:15 #34 by Waltero
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PD due to appear next week. I'll be following that see how it pans out

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25 Nov 2018 11:20 - 25 Nov 2018 11:49 #35 by NORTHERNSOUL
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Anyone see the Retweet thats Now Gone?

JC posted a retweet from the ENS Editor about PD.s evidence in the Stobbarts court case

First the copy of the original went then the retweet disappeared altogether and now the original has disappeared from the editors twitter completely.

Looks like someones had a phone call from Day towers
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 11:49 by CCU. Reason: Merged thread

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25 Nov 2018 11:31 - 25 Nov 2018 11:32 #36 by NORTHERNSOUL
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An edited version is now back on the ENS twitter and website

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/17254463.edin...stobart-group-trial/
Last edit: 25 Nov 2018 11:32 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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30 Nov 2018 13:24 #37 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
I see Stobarts withdrew claims that Tinkler had improperly claimed £5 million on expenses/private travel and corporate shindigs,they were demanding repayment.
1-0 Tinkler it looks to me.

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30 Nov 2018 14:19 #38 by Zenon
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30 Nov 2018 21:07 #39 by Laffy
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More like 10-0 to the lawyers-on both sides.This jaunt to Court will have cost a few million
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15 Feb 2019 13:20 #40 by yoonited
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High Court Judge has declared the result..... Stobart Group 1-0 Andrew Tinkler

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/17436066.andr...urt-judge-has-ruled/

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15 Feb 2019 16:53 #41 by tommycoleman1
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Is that full time ?

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15 Feb 2019 17:13 #42 by CCU
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Second Leg to come no doubt...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
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15 Feb 2019 21:31 #43 by Laffy
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I think both sides should move on-this is a public company, not a plaything, and this airing of internal fighting has destroyed shareholder value.AT notes the value of the group has halved since he left-some down to his departure no doubt but a lot down to this major distraction in my view.Asking the Board to step down today just perpetuates the car crash.

AT should set up on his own and prove the doubters wrong.He could get Neil Woodford and others to back him

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15 Feb 2019 21:53 #44 by shaldon1
Replied by shaldon1 on topic Stobart Group Internal Fighting
Laffy this is a difficult one. Whilst I appreciate your views and respect them I think AT , Woodford and PD will win with William holding and running Transport which will always be the main brand.
PD is a bit of a mystery because of the current state of the high street but be assured in time all be revealed. If you think Brexit is politics watch this space in Carlisle

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16 Feb 2019 10:43 #45 by thesilentone
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You don't start a High Court battle without having a good indication of the outcome. This advice comes at high cost, and the investment in this may be money down the toilet if you don't progress.

The failure to win changes the game, destabilizing shareholder confidence is suicide. Looks to me like they have burned some very old bridges.

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15 May 2019 15:31 #46 by CCU
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Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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15 May 2019 17:37 #47 by munchymagic
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Shame really as apart from the airport and the Kingstown depot the main hub and workforce is now based at Warrington.

Nice to see that many of the characters of old are still working there though.

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20 May 2019 10:51 #48 by CCU
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Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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20 May 2019 11:07 #49 by deepfathom
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I was passing the airport the other day. I thought I'd have a drive up to it, not expecting to be able to get in. All the barriers were open, I drove right up to the beautiful new terminal and parked in the brand new, empty car park and had a nosey through the windows. My goodness it's brand new, out of the box, but absolutely unused and deserted.

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20 May 2019 11:17 #50 by yoonited
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CCU wrote: The trial cost Tinkler a couple of quid:

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/17650986.andr...-groups-court-costs/



"No worries, I believe as one door closes another always opens." declared an upbeat Andrew Tinkler following his failed court case. He always was a bloody useless cabinet maker.
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