The EWM Thread

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28 May 2018 22:30 #801 by kells
Replied by kells on topic The EWM Thread
Interesting that you call for a “more long term sensible view”... something the BOD lack greatly.

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28 May 2018 22:54 #802 by High Street
Replied by High Street on topic The EWM Thread
That language is so like the attitude of one current member of the board,it’s unreal.

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29 May 2018 00:06 #803 by Bluedazblue
Replied by Bluedazblue on topic The EWM Thread
'As I have stated before EWM are not stupid. I would suggest they have waited to watch developments before taking action. EWM is not just about PD there is an army of brains behind it and I feel sure they will do a deal with AJ to achieve a mutual solution for the club.'

Are you seriously suggesting that a decision about EWM's relationship with C.U.F.C., a relationship that costs hundreds of thousands of pounds, is left to an 'army of brains' rather than PD.

Really? Is that what you're saying?

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29 May 2018 00:52 #804 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The EWM Thread
Are you suggesting that a man worth over a billion pounds and not based on this country seal a with every aspect of his business himself and doesn't rely on other to run parts of it for him ?

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29 May 2018 01:01 #805 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The EWM Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: Are you suggesting that a man worth over a billion pounds and not based on this country seal a with every aspect of his business himself and doesn't rely on other to run parts of it for him ?


This one is a bit delicate so whoever does the dealings any flack will be aimed at PD, just like Jenkins at Carlisle United.

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29 May 2018 02:03 #806 by Armo
Replied by Armo on topic The EWM Thread

munchymagic wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Are you suggesting that a man worth over a billion pounds and not based on this country seal a with every aspect of his business himself and doesn't rely on other to run parts of it for him ?


This one is a bit delicate so whoever does the dealings any flack will be aimed at PD, just like Jenkins at Carlisle United.


Exactly, if fan irk with the board becomes any more toxic then it could bleed over to EWM.

After all, EWM are the ones propping up the current board.

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29 May 2018 07:33 #807 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The EWM Thread

munchymagic wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Are you suggesting that a man worth over a billion pounds and not based on this country seal a with every aspect of his business himself and doesn't rely on other to run parts of it for him ?


This one is a bit delicate so whoever does the dealings any flack will be aimed at PD, just like Jenkins at Carlisle United.


I get what you mean, but it's only delicate in our eyes isn't it.

It gets pointed out quite a lot, there's a large proportion of our fan base who simply turn up to the games because they support the team and like watching football, they have no interest or care for the internal/external politics of the club, I know this because my dad is one of them.

Isn't it entirely possible that PD loaned the club money because he thought it would be a good thing to do for the club in the city he was moving his headquarters to ?
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29 May 2018 11:54 #808 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

shaldon1 wrote: As I have stated before EWM are not stupid. I would suggest they have waited to watch developments before taking action. EWM is not just about PD there is an army of brains behind it and I feel sure they will do a deal with AJ to achieve a mutual solution for the club.

I would hope that if and when the deal is done some of the supporters that feature on here would take a more long term sensible view instead of this success overnight attitude that most football supporters have.
If you want to see real supporters go to Rugby Union. A completely different attitude and much more responsible to the community and the sport.


If you think anyone other than Phillip Day makes the decisions at EWM you're dafter than you come across as on here of course supporters want success overnight thats the way it is and thats the way it always will be thats life and you're not going to change that no matter how much you might want to.

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29 May 2018 12:00 #809 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: Are you suggesting that a man worth over a billion pounds and not based on this country seal a with every aspect of his business himself and doesn't rely on other to run parts of it for him ?


Thats exactly why its owned and run by a family trust clearly a way they prefer to do it rather than going public and the riches that it would bring

Clearly, they think total control is more important than money and if you have total control you don't delegate the important decisions believe me.

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29 May 2018 12:09 #810 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The EWM Thread
But is this an important thing for them ? The money they have lent the club (though nobody knows how much this is exactly) represents less than a weeks profit for EWM, it's not a major deal for them is it.

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29 May 2018 12:46 - 29 May 2018 12:51 #811 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: But is this an important thing for them ? The money they have lent the club (though nobody knows how much this is exactly) represents less than a weeks profit for EWM, it's not a major deal for them is it.


No i dont think for a minute it is

I would imagine after all Jenkins famous begging calls he will have said to one of his lackeys set a deal up that lends them some money in a way that I cant possibly lose it. And thats exactly what hes done it's why hes being so secretive about it that makes me think theres a lot more to it than there might be.

And his guarantorship of the loan has actually offered Jenkins a lot of protection from a hostile take over bid from someone with a limited budget but the right intention like say Laffy because to frighten them off all he has to say is are you willing to guarantee the loan or pay it off because if you aren't theres no deal to be done.
Last edit: 29 May 2018 12:51 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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29 May 2018 14:05 #812 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The EWM Thread
The big unknown here is the level of EWM debt and how much is guaranteed.It was £450k at 30/6/17 and fully supported by ‘certain’ directors-I reckon that number is nearer £1.25m now but how much guaranteed?

Also if AJ is so wealthy as you state Barry,why did he not just stick it in himself?Probably because even wealthy guys don’t carry that kind of liquidity around.

I don’t see EWM taking the Club on but I do see them having absolute control over who does.

The purchase of the EWM debt would be a ‘cat amongst the pigeons’ deal.A sure fire way of taking the Club by just calling it in if the instrument is in anyway in default.

-buy debt at face value

-call it in

-goodnight Vienna for the Custodians or get face value of debt back through AJ writing another cheque.

The manager stuff is just a sideshow-never easy appointing a new manager but they have had plenty of time to get their ducks in a row

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29 May 2018 14:59 #813 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

Laffy wrote: The big unknown here is the level of EWM debt and how much is guaranteed.It was £450k at 30/6/17 and fully supported by ‘certain’ directors-I reckon that number is nearer £1.25m now but how much guaranteed?

Also if AJ is so wealthy as you state Barry,why did he not just stick it in himself?Probably because even wealthy guys don’t carry that kind of liquidity around.

I don’t see EWM taking the Club on but I do see them having absolute control over who does.

The purchase of the EWM debt would be a ‘cat amongst the pigeons’ deal.A sure fire way of taking the Club by just calling it in if the instrument is in anyway in default.

-buy debt at face value

-call it in

-goodnight Vienna for the Custodians or get face value of debt back through AJ writing another cheque.

The manager stuff is just a sideshow-never easy appointing a new manager but they have had plenty of time to get their ducks in a row


I agree with you on the amount my estimate is by the time they hit the year-end it will be the best part of 1.5 million

But my information is that the total amount owed is secured against the ground and other assets and AJ.s guarantee is just over individual repayments which means if there isn't the money in the clubs account on the day that its due he covers the payment and then either writes it off or adds it to what the club owes him. Done that way to ensure that the debt never goes above whatever maximum limit they've set for it is.

I think its less to do with him not having the funds available as it is to do with the deal he supposedly struck with his sons a couple of years back when Pioneer committed to the development that I believe is now nearing completion.

And yes I agree EWM have no intention of taking it on but might well want to be seen as the clubs protector in that it's pretty clear that they are already the kingmaker as it would now be all but impossible to buy the club without their agreement [ unless the buyer was happy for them to just call in their loan and repay it in full or take the gamble that they wouldn't dare do anything about enforcing the charge ]

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29 May 2018 15:56 #814 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The EWM Thread
Note 27 to the 2017 Accounts states that the guarantee is £450k Barry-the quantum of the loan at that date too.

If I was PD,I wouldn’t be relying on my debenture and charge over the ground as it would be unthinkable for him to call it in-he wouldn’t be able to eat lunch in Carlisle again.Easier to have a PG to back it up

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29 May 2018 17:20 #815 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

Laffy wrote: Note 27 to the 2017 Accounts states that the guarantee is £450k Barry-the quantum of the loan at that date too.

If I was PD,I wouldn’t be relying on my debenture and charge over the ground as it would be unthinkable for him to call it in-he wouldn’t be able to eat lunch in Carlisle again.Easier to have a PG to back it up


Maybe thats the plan take the ground spend a bit tarting it up

Secure well established long standing tenants whose business depends on having a ground to play in sounds like an opportunity to charge a lucrative rent to me

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29 May 2018 17:24 #816 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

Laffy wrote: Note 27 to the 2017 Accounts states that the guarantee is £450k Barry-the quantum of the loan at that date too.

If I was PD,I wouldn’t be relying on my debenture and charge over the ground as it would be unthinkable for him to call it in-he wouldn’t be able to eat lunch in Carlisle again.Easier to have a PG to back it up


Maybe then Laffy you could explain why you think they have both the charge over the ground and the clubs assets as well as the personal guarantee for the full amount if you believe that is the case.

Why do they need both? Do they not think Jenkins is good for the cash then?

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29 May 2018 17:54 #817 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The EWM Thread
Not entirely sure but it is entirely conventional for banks to take a debenture over company and assets and reinforce with PGs-double security.More so when you have a difficult lens like an under performing lower league football club.

Personally think EWM are just acting like a bank and the last thing they want to do is own a football club.

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29 May 2018 18:03 #818 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic The EWM Thread
EWM will have in the group a finance company that just raises/pays off finance and acts as a treasury for the group. They will have a policy of taking security wherever possible and it will just be easier to take security than not otherwise all sorts of risk control issues will jump up. The personal guarantee is because the assets even with the security don't cover the loan.

Difficult to see why they did this if they have no further commitment. Why give a million to man who has a business that generates 4m a year? Expensive way of showing commitment to the town when they could just sponsor the hospice for a tenth of the cost. Who knows, mysterious Philip Day

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29 May 2018 19:02 #819 by zoney
Replied by zoney on topic The EWM Thread

Markovitch wrote: . Why give a million to man who has a business that generates 4m a year?


The easy answer to that is yes he owns pioneer etc but his boys run it and wont allow daddy any where near the bank account so unless he has the money in his personal account he 's stuffed as they will not allow him to use money from the buisness

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02 Jun 2018 09:48 #820 by United63
Replied by United63 on topic The EWM Thread
See on sky news PD asked to chair stobarts by biggest share holder

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02 Jun 2018 11:58 #821 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
If i was him i would rather give it to the hospice rather than any football team. It will always be appreciated unlike here if he took ownership on and a couple of years down the line fans are twining because he lost a striker in the same way wyke left and he didnt get a replacement. However if he actually wants the club you can guarantee it will be with a plan to make it work for him and the group and thats a good thing .

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02 Jun 2018 13:47 #822 by markredfox73
Replied by markredfox73 on topic The EWM Thread
Just [censored] off like eh shaldon

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02 Jun 2018 15:43 #823 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
Quality grown up response to an opinion different from yours . And who says you are right just because you are abusive to people . Ps a hospice serves the whole community whereas a football team serves a small percentage and in our case a very small percentage and it is shrinking .

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02 Jun 2018 16:00 - 02 Jun 2018 16:03 #824 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread
I think its time for a cull of all the softarsed wa.nkers who come on here licking Nixon Clibbins And Jenkins arses.

Me i.d be much more in favour of a whip round for a hitman Wonder what sort of discount they do for multiple jobs ?
Last edit: 02 Jun 2018 16:03 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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02 Jun 2018 16:48 #825 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
I dont lick geriatric football club owners arses nor do I lick the arses of old age football hooligans . I support the team and if its owned by this lot or your band of merry men I will support them . Wether I like either option doesnt matter . Its called freedom of speech and opinion .

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02 Jun 2018 17:31 #826 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

bob hatton 10 wrote: I dont lick geriatric football club owners arses nor do I lick the arses of old age football hooligans . I support the team and if its owned by this lot or your band of merry men I will support them . Wether I like either option doesnt matter . Its called freedom of speech and opinion .


No body's asking you to thank you very much and your clearly much too busy with your tongue deep inside Jenkins rectum to bother with anything else.

Surprises me that you find the time to post on here at all given you. ve now added Clibbins to your roster.

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02 Jun 2018 18:42 #827 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
You never change . If in doubt you spout bile. You dont go for your own reasons and i respect that as that is your choice. I have told you i gp because i support the team not the owners nor prospective owners. Its a shame that you cant do the same.

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02 Jun 2018 18:55 #828 by munchymagic
Replied by munchymagic on topic The EWM Thread
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess but nobody ever comes across with any valid reasons for defending the board, everything will be ridiculed they are that bad like the normal ones trotted out.

'There would be no Carlisle United without Jenkins'

'Look how much cash Jenkins has put in'

'Jenkins is a true Carlisle United fan'

'Look at the sterling work that Nixon does for the club with having the accolade of a Carlisle United owner on the FA list and always on the television'

'There would be nobody to step in if Jenkins pulled the plug'


I could go on but writing that list made me angry enough, cannot be many left that will stand up for those three with a valid argument for them staying, they are holding us back.
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02 Jun 2018 19:03 #829 by Bruntonpasty
Replied by Bruntonpasty on topic The EWM Thread
The problem Is, during their tenure, they've done little or nothing to actually progress the football club. The football industry has moved on, left us behind, we must be one of the most backward thinking clubs in the country. Yes, jenkins has put his money in, but what is there to show for it? some would say "we've still got a club because he put his money in" But where were we when he took over? what were the debts at that time? What potential did we have as a club when they took over? Look where are we now!

They don't like it up 'em!
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02 Jun 2018 19:06 #830 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

bob hatton 10 wrote: You never change . If in doubt you spout bile. You dont go for your own reasons and i respect that as that is your choice. I have told you i gp because i support the team not the owners nor prospective owners. Its a shame that you cant do the same.


And its a shame that you cant understand that the days of doffing your cap to people like Jenkins are long gone and if he wants the trappings and prestige that go with owning the local football club then he has to pay the price of doing it and if hes not willing to do then the fans should take it off him by any means at their disposal [ and if that means cutting off his income stream by not going then so be it] and own it themselves for the good of the local community.

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02 Jun 2018 20:10 - 02 Jun 2018 20:13 #831 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The EWM Thread
That's just not going to happen though is it Barry.

Most people barely acknowledge the presence of the BOD at matches, being to busy actually watching the match, and I can't imagine anyone has doffed their cap to anyone at BP for a couple of decades now.
Last edit: 02 Jun 2018 20:13 by DeckchairBlue.

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02 Jun 2018 20:39 #832 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: That's just not going to happen though is it Barry.

Most people barely acknowledge the presence of the BOD at matches, being to busy actually watching the match, and I can't imagine anyone has doffed their cap to anyone at BP for a couple of decades now.


He.d be gone in a month if nobody bought season tickets or went to the first 3 games

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02 Jun 2018 20:50 #833 by Wukkie
Replied by Wukkie on topic The EWM Thread
Quite simple really, people can watch the team and ignore the BOD all they want but for how much longer because there will be no Carlisle United with Jenkins if he is allowed to continue much longer.

You'll be supporting a phoenix club within 3 years at the bottom rung of the ladder.

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02 Jun 2018 21:05 #834 by shaldon1
Replied by shaldon1 on topic The EWM Thread
1100 people on facebook.Probably about 500 so called supporters. I have suspected all along that this is the approx. number with the wrong attitude.To stay away from home matches is nothing short of disgrace without putting forward proper professional views through a respected body.

I am very confident that Carlisle United will be there for as long as any other club and that is what is important. The correct administration will eventually take over for the future of the club. I have no doubt about that and what you all need is patience.

What you as the minority should not be doing is trying to destroy the enjoyment of the majority.

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02 Jun 2018 21:19 #835 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The EWM Thread
Be honest Shaldon-are you enjoying the slow lingering demise of our football club?That is the central issue here-and the majority you refer to has declined at an alarming rate.

Have a seat in the main stand wonder why pretty much everyone is over 60.

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02 Jun 2018 21:30 #836 by High Street
Replied by High Street on topic The EWM Thread
If Shaldon is not Pattinson, then it’s someone he’s getting to post. Only Pattinson is that thick too believe those words.
Colin Steel?

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02 Jun 2018 21:31 #837 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic The EWM Thread

shaldon1 wrote: 1100 people on facebook.Probably about 500 so called supporters. I have suspected all along that this is the approx. number with the wrong attitude.To stay away from home matches is nothing short of disgrace without putting forward proper professional views through a respected body.


Shaldon people have tried over and over again to get the board to listen to them, but they just get ignored and called "negative" for putting forward their views. Nixon is still saying it's only a small minority of fans who aren't happy, when it's pretty clear that it's much more of a problem than that. So either he's totally out of touch with reality, or he's intentionally trying to mislead people as to what the reality is. Whichever it is, we don't need someone like that being involved in the running of the club.

shaldon1 wrote: What you as the minority should not be doing is trying to destroy the enjoyment of the majority


It isn't the minority. You sound a lot like Nixon.

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02 Jun 2018 21:34 #838 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic The EWM Thread
It’s called Folie a deux though I had no idea it was so infectious

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02 Jun 2018 21:44 #839 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The EWM Thread

High Street wrote: If Shaldon is not Pattinson, then it’s someone he’s getting to post. Only Pattinson is that thick too believe those words.
Colin Steel?


As I’ve said several times previous, Shaldon is a bona fide poster...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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02 Jun 2018 21:53 #840 by flumeblue
Replied by flumeblue on topic The EWM Thread
Is NS a bona fide poster.?

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02 Jun 2018 22:36 #841 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
I dont doff my cap to no one tbh And if you manage to do what you are suggesting and after a coup you are the head honcho I will still come along . But that doesn't mean i support you or am against you

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02 Jun 2018 22:43 #842 by DeckchairBlue
Replied by DeckchairBlue on topic The EWM Thread

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: That's just not going to happen though is it Barry.

Most people barely acknowledge the presence of the BOD at matches, being to busy actually watching the match, and I can't imagine anyone has doffed their cap to anyone at BP for a couple of decades now.


He.d be gone in a month if nobody bought season tickets or went to the first 3 games


But that's not going to happen is it Barry, as much as you bluster and berate and claim you have the master plan none of that will actually happen.

There is a breed of supporters who go and support the club because it is their club, regardless of who owns, manages or plays for it. You may have found a new club to go and watch on Saturdays, but they never will.

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02 Jun 2018 23:18 #843 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

bob hatton 10 wrote: I dont doff my cap to no one tbh And if you manage to do what you are suggesting and after a coup you are the head honcho I will still come along . But that doesn't mean i support you or am against you


Believe me, I have no aspirations to be as you put it head honcho of anything of anything all I want is to see the back of people who are very slowly strangling the life out of what was once a great club to support If you really want to see just how they're doing that look at our away attendances there was a time that we virtually never went under 600 now James Phillips has an orgasm if we get 250 at most games and just recently the London based support has totally collapsed the people whove given up going will never be won back and thats the legacy Jenkins and co will leave a thriving club admired by fans accross the league for its support quickly becoming a laughing stock.

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02 Jun 2018 23:32 #844 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
I wasnt saying you were as such . I was explaining my stand. Personally I am getting fed up with football as a whole and Carlisle is all i watch these days . But the last season and the atmosphere is testing that too.

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03 Jun 2018 00:02 - 03 Jun 2018 00:07 #845 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic The EWM Thread

bob hatton 10 wrote: I wasnt saying you were as such . I was explaining my stand. Personally I am getting fed up with football as a whole and Carlisle is all i watch these days . But the last season and the atmosphere is testing that too.


Well there you go then you're no different from anybody else. Just some of us can see the best way to get rid of them in the shortest possible time is for people to stop going for a short while Hell I hardly missed a game or 30 years but there was no way I was giving a penny to Story after what he did to the Trust and JC and having a successful team on the pitch didn't change that for me and i.m very proud of the fact I haven't given in and been back since [ well 3 times in 13 years I have but on those occasions they were corporate tickets and I didnt spend a penny at the ground ] and one things for certain I won't be back till this shower are gone once and for all.

Don't tell me you wouldn't like a return to the good days when not only did we have decent crowds but a good atmosphere in the ground too Knighton may have turned out to be a [censored] but at least he knew how to generate interest and therefore crowds. This lot just don't seem to care they do absolutely nothing to try to get people back it really is as if they just couldn't care less
Last edit: 03 Jun 2018 00:07 by NORTHERNSOUL.

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03 Jun 2018 01:47 #846 by bob hatton 10
Replied by bob hatton 10 on topic The EWM Thread
I go for my own reasons as explained and over the last few years mostly for the crack tbh. I have never thought about not going because of owners etc but i will be honest there was something about John C that made me uneasy about him but I still went His loyalty to Roddy in one way you had to admire but on the other hand it cost the guy big time . And before you start i dont warm to Nixon either.

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25 Jul 2018 10:34 - 25 Jul 2018 10:34 #847 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The EWM Thread
Still not a squeak from them, yet they’ve several fingers in the pie?

- Loan Facility to the BoD, with associated Charge on Ground.

- Have a finance man on the Holdings Board almost instantly (It took CUOSC ages!)

- CUOSC said at their AGM that man of mystery David Holdsworth has ‘EWM connections’.

- They Sponsor our Kit (And wouldn’t be surprised if our new Away Kit was in colours similar to EWM!).

They’re effectively in control of the Club, but the silence is deafening. Surely they should at least come out and explain their position, the above are more than simply ‘helping out’!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 25 Jul 2018 10:34 by CCU.
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25 Jul 2018 11:07 #848 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic The EWM Thread
I'm not sure what you expect them to say. EWM are helping the Club to run itself in a cash and cost-conscious fashion. Holdsworth will be ensuring that contract offers to players are modest after EWM's disbelief at what Curle was allowed to offer players. EWM aren't making any strategic decisions just laying down the law when it comes to spending cash that the Club doesn't have. Clibbens will be feeling chastened as he allowed Curle the free rein which got us into this situation which might explain his 'disappearance'.
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25 Jul 2018 12:13 - 25 Jul 2018 12:16 #849 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic The EWM Thread
It’s a strange set up when a non-Shareholder is laying down the law though (That Loan is certainly getting its value!).

It’s very typical Carlisle United!

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!
Last edit: 25 Jul 2018 12:16 by CCU.
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25 Jul 2018 12:43 #850 by bluestblue
Replied by bluestblue on topic The EWM Thread
1. It is purely a loan facility (allegedly).

At AGM, when asked, Clibbens said EWM did not influence decisions and they had no representation on the Board.

2.Very closely after that statement, EWM had a representative on the Board.

3. They now (apparently) have a representative on the playing management team.

As in maths, 2 +3 does not equal 1 here either.

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