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  1. Laffy
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  3. 20-03-2017 12:23
Looks like they have made a loan to the 1921 company-registered at Companies House.
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FROM NEWS AND STAR
Philip Day: If I didn't sponsor Carlisle Utd, club might not exist
Tycoon whose firm are loaning money to Blues adds: I don't really like football


The Cumbrian billionaire whose firm are loaning cash to Carlisle United says the club wouldn't exist without his financial help.

Philip Day, owner of Edinburgh Woollen Mill, made the remarks in a rare interview with The Sunday Times.

Two months ago it was revealed that EWM had a charge against Brunton Park having made "loan facilities" available to the Blues.

It has sparked speculation that Day's firm were poised to take a more involved role in United's affairs.

EWM have so far declined to comment either on the arrangement or how it might develop.

But in the interview with the national newspaper's Oliver Shah, Day briefly touched upon the Blues.

He said: “To be honest, I don’t even like football — my game is really rugby.

"But a lot of people who work with us go to Carlisle, and if I didn’t sponsor it, I don’t think it would exist.”

EWM have so far failed to respond to the News & Star's requests for comment since news emerged in March of the charge against United's ground.

The Blues have so far played down suggestions it will lead to ownership change, with co-owner John Nixon recently telling a group of fans that Day did not want the "hassle and heartache" of owning a club.

But chief executive Nigel Clibbens last month did admit EWM were getting on board with United "in a more involved way".

He also said their input was part of moves to reduce the club's long-standing reliance on co-owner and chairman Andrew Jenkins.

EWM are expected to increase their commercial involvement with United this summer.

The Sunday Times Rich List rated Day's wealth at £1.15bn, but in the interview the tycoon said: "Ok, the company's worth £1bn, but I don't have anything like the money of a billionaire. I'd have to sell everything."

Blues co-owner Nixon, meanwhile, insisted his high-profile role at Saturday's FA Cup Final was "good for the club".

Nixon, who is chairman of the FA Cup committee, was part of the welcoming party that introduced guest of honour Prince William to the Arsenal and Chelsea players before the game.

Former United managing director Nixon, who now holds the title "director of external affairs", has faced criticism from some fans over his various roles with the FA and EFL.

But in an article on United's website he said his involvement at Saturday's Wembley showpiece was "a great honour for me on a personal level and also good for the club that we’re being represented at this level of the game.”

He also said his range of positions gain United "a higher profile", adding: "People connect my involvement directly with Carlisle United as a football club, which I really do think is important."


What a wa nker. I wonder if he would care to list all the benefits him being on all these committees have provided. Away at Portsmouth and sodding Exeter to start and finish the season. Away at Crewe and Notts County over Christmas. Two at home out of that 4 would prob have covered his expenses for the season.
  1. 29-05-2017 14:00
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I quite agree Dancing he's using the club to further his own plans not for the benefit of the club. One of his comments comes to mind when the moved the KO time for the last game of the season " it'll be better for the fans" what planet is he on
  1. 29-05-2017 16:00
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You appear to be mixing up Day and Nixon?
  1. 29-05-2017 16:18
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Good night out in Jesmond though!

I think PD bailed them out-nothing more than that just now other than shirt sponsor stuff
  1. 29-05-2017 17:57
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Must admit there's nothing in that article that suggests he's about to gallop down Warwick Road on a white charger. If anything he's slightly disparaging about the club in the manner of a bloke who is giving to charity because he can afford it not because he supports it.

Can't imagine him dipping into his pocket again though and it will be interesting to see what happens when the money runs out again which it surely will.

Starting to wonder if Bernard's prick teasing about the start of a beautiful friendship had potential season ticket sales behind it?

Shame it doesn't appear to have worked.
  1. 29-05-2017 18:57
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You appear to be mixing up Day and Nixon?


Read the bit from the star pal. Second half of it is Nixon saying how wonderful for the club him being on the fa gravy train is.
  1. 29-05-2017 19:00
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Are you all blind??

He's gonna take over move us out move rugby in and for the price of getting a footy team to championship turn Carlisle to a rugby powerhouse a bit like Exeter

Booo Day out!!!!!

Unless he likes league...hurray..
  1. 29-05-2017 19:43
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If as PD states we are only existing due to his money streams, then surely out of necessity, we cannot afford to keep King and Clibbens, as much as it would pain me to see JN's face fronting the club again as we sit around waiting for the next billionaire...
  1. 29-05-2017 20:34
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According to some, an announcement is expected regarding EWM and their involvement at CUFC on or around 30th June.
  1. 29-05-2017 20:44
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I think there has to be something more to this loan carry on. I know the loan is secured against the ground but he knows full well that his business loses money every year unless it has a cup run or sells players for good fees so he also knows full well there is a good chance the money wont be coming back. The grounds value is very questionable but may go a long way to covering the debt but why would you involve yourself in something like this? There must be something more to this than philanthropy surely?
  1. 29-05-2017 20:55
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Without new management,the Club would not be able to raise new finance-I called it 'professionalising the back office' but essentially meant that the commercial side of the Club needed to raise its game.This remains the case though NC and PK are hamstrung by negative sentiment towards the owners,share structure and of course Syrian pizzas.

The new hurdle is debt-something even a top commercial guy would struggle to deal with in attracting fresh cash.

For me,it's PD or nothing.I cannot see anyone else investing in this cocktail without major surgery.
  1. 29-05-2017 20:55
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That's the thing Laffy, you were bringing cash in with your plan but you and your other investors(some of them anyway)would become involved in the running of the club, PD has just handed the envelope over against the clubs only asset, and apparently is doing nothing more. Has he just given the three amigo's the noose to put around their own necks while he just waits until he has to kick the stool away?
  1. 29-05-2017 21:01
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I have no doubt that the debenture is there to assert control when needed-otherwise,why put it there as it's highly unlikely he will ever see his money again
  1. 29-05-2017 21:08
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I have no doubt that the debenture is there to assert control when needed-otherwise,why put it there as it's highly unlikely he will ever see his money again


I agree with you Laffy but, it would appear he's not taking any other part in the running of the show, this seems strange to me. unless he is planning something in the future.
  1. 29-05-2017 21:11
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Brunton has got a point. Does seem strange that a guy who admits he doesn't like football, has said before he doesn't want to own a club and is obviously a savvy businessman is happy to put hundreds of thousands into one for no return? Is he just trying to do something good for the local area? Is there some kind of business reason/tax etc. that EWM would benefit from?
  1. 29-05-2017 21:15
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Have to admit that I had high hopes but I wonder if this was PD just 'doing his bit' and getting some sponsorship out of it whilst moving to Carlisle.Small beer for the PR.

Hence my point before-more debt,same old share structure issues,aging stakeholders with no cash and a lot of disenfranchised supporters.I like NC and PK but the canvas isn't pretty just now.

You can value the stadium at £6m or even £100m-Rangers did,but totally irrelevant as it's a football stadium and nothing more.New investors will want to invest in a plan to move forwards knowing their cash is being used for that reason
  1. 29-05-2017 21:19
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More questions than answers at the moment. Next stop end of June and see if any announcements are forthcoming. If not same old crap for now.
  1. 29-05-2017 21:23
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If it was purely philanthropy, lending with this charge against the ground seems unnecessary if he doesn't expect to get it back?
  1. 29-05-2017 21:25
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Is it not pretty obvious he has no plans to take over or assign control to someone?

How many times does he have to say he has no interest? He or EWM are sponsors that's all or if he does have plans why cant it be more open and honest?
  1. 29-05-2017 21:35
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Is it not pretty obvious he has no plans to take over or assign control to someone?

How many times does he have to say he has no interest? He or EWM are sponsors that's all or if he does have plans why cant it be more open and honest?



That's true Zebby but sponsorship is usually a transaction where the sponsor hands over the cash and the club would then wear and display the sponsors logo. Loaning money with a charge against the ground doesn't seem like sponsorship when the "sponsor" has club assets he could reclaim if the loan isn't repaid. Just seems odd.
  1. 29-05-2017 21:51
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Is it not pretty obvious he has no plans to take over or assign control to someone?

How many times does he have to say he has no interest? He or EWM are sponsors that's all or if he does have plans why cant it be more open and honest?


It's just going into people's head is it. Not interested. Never was & never will be.

"More questions than answers at the moment" - NO there isn't, he is sponsoring the shirts, end of story. The only questions are the ones you have made up because John at the local pub say's he has heard a rumour.
  1. 29-05-2017 21:53
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Is it not pretty obvious he has no plans to take over or assign control to someone?

How many times does he have to say he has no interest? He or EWM are sponsors that's all or if he does have plans why cant it be more open and honest?


It's just going into people's head is it. Not interested. Never was & never will be.

"More questions than answers at the moment" - NO there isn't, he is sponsoring the shirts, end of story. The only questions are the ones you have made up because John at the local pub say's he has heard a rumour.


So are you suggesting that in return for loaning the club the money, a loan that is secured against the ground, he gets his logo on the shirts, a stand logo'd up and ultimately then gets the cash back? Is that a good deal?
  1. 29-05-2017 22:03
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Is it not pretty obvious he has no plans to take over or assign control to someone?

How many times does he have to say he has no interest? He or EWM are sponsors that's all or if he does have plans why cant it be more open and honest?


It's just going into people's head is it. Not interested. Never was & never will be.

"More questions than answers at the moment" - NO there isn't, he is sponsoring the shirts, end of story. The only questions are the ones you have made up because John at the local pub say's he has heard a rumour.



Thanks for that. Its nice to know Companies house made a complete balls up when they listed him having a charge on the ground. Looks like Jon Colman et al fell for it as well. Pleased youve put everyone straight on it.
  1. 29-05-2017 22:07
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I hate to post on the trust board here, but there is an obvious answer you're all missing.

PD says he's a rugby man (fine, so did FS) and doesn't wish control. I believe him and don't believe the loan is an attempt to assert some sort of sneaky control.

Why not loan the club a capital amount / or at least the facility first off "to help" cover cashflow etc and then take it back over time, season by season - in lieu of sponsorship? Maybe some of the items they're planning or wishing to sponsor are still sponsored by other businesses and PD, quite rightly, doesn't want to step on any toes until these deals have expired

You have to satisfy the EWM shareholders for the initial capital amount / facility, so you take a token debenture on BP, to show you aren't pissing the cash up the wall while keeping yourself looking responsible.

This way the club gets access to the funds it needs upfront, EWM gets paid back in sponsorship for the amount of the loans - for a considerable few years - and PD can carry on sipping his cocktails, on his patio, in the sun without any of the muppets who support our club giving him grief. Everyone's a winner in this scenario....

Apart from our toothless and apathetic supporters, of course.
  1. 29-05-2017 22:26
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I hate to post on the trust board here, but there is an obvious answer you're all missing.

PD says he's a rugby man (fine, so did FS) and doesn't wish control. I believe him and don't believe the loan is an attempt to assert some sort of sneaky control.

Why not loan the club a capital amount / or at least the facility first off "to help" cover cashflow etc and then take it back over time, season by season - in lieu of sponsorship? Maybe some of the items they're planning or wishing to sponsor are still sponsored by other businesses and PD, quite rightly, doesn't want to step on any toes until these deals have expired

You have to satisfy the EWM shareholders for the initial capital amount / facility, so you take a token debenture on BP, to show you aren't pissing the cash up the wall while keeping yourself looking responsible.

This way the club gets access to the funds it needs upfront, EWM gets paid back in sponsorship for the amount of the loans - for a considerable few years - and PD can carry on sipping his cocktails, on his patio, in the sun without any of the muppets who support our club giving him grief. Everyone's a winner in this scenario....

Apart from our toothless and apathetic supporters, of course.



Hmmm, that may be the case and time will tell, well stated Piggy. Welcome to the trust board, now [censored] off!;)
  1. 29-05-2017 22:36
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I think Piglet is right. EWM are providing a loan facility in the same way that a bank might, EWM will receive monthly management accounts and the business plan like a lending bank would. EWM are clearly looking at a major sponsorship deal - shirts, stand maybe even the stadium, The EWM Brunton Park perhaps? They then deduct the cost of the sponsorship from the outstanding loan amount. Everything is being done on a commercial basis.
  1. 29-05-2017 23:41
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I don't think Piglet is right that this is the trust board, I think at one stage it wanted to be but everyone came to their senses and realised that the people who run the club and the trust are a closed shop and are basically useless.
  1. 29-05-2017 23:47
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So I'm 'sad' for not posting the Day article on here.Well that would have involved me photocopying the article and then pasting it-I don't have a copier at home.If that constitutes 'sad' God save us.

The interesting fact in the article for fans is that PD spends less than 10 days a year in the UK having relocated to Dubai-that may change of course in the future.

He also says that he thinks there will be a lot of casualties on the High Street-mainly down to rates and weak sterling.I agree-there will be some surprise names in difficulty unless the government addresses the issue of business rates in particular.


Debenhams could be one of the next down the shitter.

They sold off the last of the stores they owned about 10 years ago, on leaseback with the rent increasing year on year, to fund a takeover that happened them.

Lad I know that works there claims that it's now got to the point that the rent is more than some stores profit, hence why they are now looking at closures.

M&S will more than likely realise they aren't going to be able to turn around their clothing side and only do food and home stuff.

Next share price has almost halved in the last 2 years. My Mrs works there and a lot of her colleagues invested heavily in their share save programme because for a couple of years it was basically buying money, but now a few who didn't sell when the getting was good have seen a few grand knocked off their shares. The last one she did she ended up jist withdrawing the money because the share price was lower than the initial offering.
  1. 30-05-2017 00:15
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I don't think Piglet is right that this is the trust board, I think at one stage it wanted to be but everyone came to their senses and realised that the people who run the club and the trust are a closed shop and are basically useless.


Thought you'd have known about the secret meetings CCU and Mouldy had with Norman Steel and John N***n
  1. 30-05-2017 00:16
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So I'm 'sad' for not posting the Day article on here.Well that would have involved me photocopying the article and then pasting it-I don't have a copier at home.If that constitutes 'sad' God save us.

The interesting fact in the article for fans is that PD spends less than 10 days a year in the UK having relocated to Dubai-that may change of course in the future.

He also says that he thinks there will be a lot of casualties on the High Street-mainly down to rates and weak sterling.I agree-there will be some surprise names in difficulty unless the government addresses the issue of business rates in particular.


Debenhams could be one of the next down the shitter.

They sold off the last of the stores they owned about 10 years ago, on leaseback with the rent increasing year on year, to fund a takeover that happened them.

Lad I know that works there claims that it's now got to the point that the rent is more than some stores profit, hence why they are now looking at closures.

M&S will more than likely realise they aren't going to be able to turn around their clothing side and only do food and home stuff.

Next share price has almost halved in the last 2 years. My Mrs works there and a lot of her colleagues invested heavily in their share save programme because for a couple of years it was basically buying money, but now a few who didn't sell when the getting was good have seen a few grand knocked off their shares. The last one she did she ended up jist withdrawing the money because the share price was lower than the initial offering.


Department stores were always a middle class sort of stuffy store anyhow with a mish mash of stuff that was sold at three times the price you get in The Range but hey ho you get a nice bag.

I just hope that they don't blame the demise of Debenhams on Brexit, people still do have money but they do not want to waste it on over priced tat.

I noticed there are not as many tobacconists in Carlisle as there used to be because it is an outdated concept just like the department store.
  1. 30-05-2017 00:46
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Times change I get all my clothes and footwear online I'm very brand loyal so very rarely send anything back as I know sizing

all electricals for the house are bought online and virtually all presents bought online toys jewellery perfumes ect

not sure the high st as we know it has a future

most town centers will be for eating out socialising and living in majority of shopping done on line

I bought a drill other week same day delivery ffs
  1. 30-05-2017 01:01
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ccu
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I don't think Piglet is right that this is the trust board, I think at one stage it wanted to be but everyone came to their senses and realised that the people who run the club and the trust are a closed shop and are basically useless.


Thought you'd have known about the secret meetings CCU and Mouldy had with Norman Steel and John N***n


The Duck Parfait was nice mind...
  1. 30-05-2017 06:07
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So cash flow problem sorted for now. Still the debt problem which wont go away unless a billionare comes in. Sounds similar to Laffy's proposal, except it's one company putting the cash up, oh and we are stuck with the current owners for the forseable future
  1. 30-05-2017 06:58
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If it is a sponsorship deal with a notional set off each year like the Pioneer Stand,it will hurt long term cash flow as no cash being paid on the drip.

Having a facility from EWM is very helpful short term but how much has been spent so far as the chat is they needed it quick to sort out creditors

Something will have to give here-too quiet on all fronts
  1. 30-05-2017 07:47
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So, clinging on, worried, head in the sand, desperate, in denial, all words that can be used to describe the BOD. Hope something gives sooner rather that later as we head towards yet another season in the basement league.
  1. 30-05-2017 07:58
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Looking increasingly like the club is heading towards a terminal decline if the situation and owners remain the same. They still won't accept that it's their doing and refusal to step aside when AL and others have made bids to take over is only speeding up the final curtain. How much longer can we go on as we are in a ground no longer up to what is required to generate income for the club.
  1. 30-05-2017 08:49
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Maybe investing in promotion has cost dearly, who knows ?

Given the magnitude of PD's businesses, maybe having a foot in CUFC gives an inside track into the FA and a potential future supply business ?

International brand awareness is one thing, sponsoring CUFC is another.

It may be as simple as personal relationships, and giving help when asked.............
  1. 30-05-2017 09:54
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Has PD not just given a politician's answer though (or been advised by a PR man what to say) - he does not answer the question/point of "are you buying CUFC2. He merely goes off at a tangent, like they all do, and says he does not like football.
Still don't buy it that he is buying the club it is to offset tax losses. If he is buying it, it will be to put people in place to make it a successful business venture.
On the down side, and worryingly (and probably glaringly obvious sign he is not buying it) is that he does not have a representative on the board which has just agreed the budgets for next season.
  1. 30-05-2017 11:23
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C'mon Phil man eh. Git yer an in yer pockit an blow yer luar on the blues.
Yer only live once fella. Nee regrets.
  1. 30-05-2017 11:49
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Hopefully he'll come in. Give a nice thanks but no thanks to the current regime. Spend a few years putting the club on a decent footing, then sell to someone good when it's a much more attractive proposition. If only FS had written the debt off there and then. Not just off loaded the club for 4 quid but put it up for sale properly when we were steadily progressing.
  1. 30-05-2017 12:21
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If he is non domiciled it means the bulk of his money is offshore, Any profits or investment income he earns on that offshore money is tax free unless he transfers the money to the UK. He will pay tax at 40% on transfers in to the UK. Gifting CUFC £1m will cost him £1.4m. Allowing the club to run up a million debt then writing it off costs £1M
  1. 30-05-2017 13:11
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I think Piglet is right. EWM are providing a loan facility in the same way that a bank might, EWM will receive monthly management accounts and the business plan like a lending bank would. EWM are clearly looking at a major sponsorship deal - shirts, stand maybe even the stadium, The EWM Brunton Park perhaps? They then deduct the cost of the sponsorship from the outstanding loan amount. Everything is being done on a commercial basis.


Which is exactly what i.ve been saying for the last two months

The fly in the ointment is that the million pounds came in the form of a loan and if the sponsorship payments are just used to write down the loan then neither they or the original amount could be used to affect the protocol percentage amount.

The current aim has to be to use various financial instruments to increase the protocol not come up with ways to reduce it

One way i could see that they could do that would be if someone say Pioneer bought one of the houses for 250k the money would up the protocol amount by 140k then once the figures are agreed pre season the club buy it back with money from the loan do it 4 times and youve upped the protocol amount by nearly 600k either in one season or over a number of them.


NS - all quite laudible, but they are budgeting to lose £500K per year, last year and presumably this.
You can only do that for so long, so quite why you think they should increase the losses and give Curly Keith more to piss away I am not sure.
For me, 1 or 2 of his back room staff need to go, Clibbins is a no brainer (if it means seeing Nixon's ugly mug a bit more so be it - he can be challenged a lot more as well), and King needs to be on an incentivised deal.
Reinvest the money in the team.
  1. 30-05-2017 13:16
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Thanks Barry. They would have got further tax relief on a write off but I don't think they can write off if they have security, curiouser and curiouser
  1. 30-05-2017 14:34
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He is UK domicile dd but likely non U.K. Resident-just for clarity
  1. 30-05-2017 14:55
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Absolutely correct-EWM will be uk resident
  1. 30-05-2017 15:38
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Clibbens confirms today in the News & Star that face to face discussions are taking place for them to have a say in the running of the club.
  1. 03-06-2017 11:49
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A bit more encouraging to say the least.......but with EWM already injecting a substantial loan against the parts of the club they are in the driving seat, so to speak. I would find it impossible to see a get out clause from Nixon, Patty and Jenkins this time.
  1. 03-06-2017 11:54
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How would EWM taking over effect the sponsorship ? As would that money be taken into account when factoring turnover or would it be disregarded as a conflict of interest ?
  1. 03-06-2017 12:01
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I disagree with you NS due to the mumblings I'm hearing.

I just can't see JN and SP being able to stay with no money, JN and his wife are looking at moving down south.

As for AJ he's not putting in any more money - there's no way they can stay.

EWM will be taking over, just a matter of when but I expect at the start of the clubs financial year July 1st.
  1. 03-06-2017 13:19
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Northernsoul may I point out I did not say the the EWM were taking over . Stop making assumptions. Also you call people thick is like the kettle calling the pot black you can't even tell the difference between an apostrophe and a comma . Your a gobshite with never any evidence to back up what you say as you can't provide any. As for you constantly writing in capitals , it's been proven not to attract people's attention and more people ignore it .
  1. 03-06-2017 13:57
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