How much would it cost to knock the old stands down and build a 5,000 new stand.

Then stick a roof on the Waterworks and bobs your uncle.

If a new ground ain’t happening, at least a modest redevelopment of Brunton Park would be nice! A small 1500-2000 seater stand at the waterworks end (moved back to lineup with the east stand) would be a start - if it’s feasible. Replace the paddock side with 4000 seats, and you’ve got a 12k seated capacity with the WRE still to go.

Does the flood risk really rule this out? And if not, why have the owners allowed BP to rot and fester? Why is the east stand still not completely finished after a quarter of a century?

Any redevelopment would have to not increase the affect of flooding and would have to sit on the same footprint, plus a bank would have to be willing to take the risk to loan the money .

If we can’t shift the footprint of the ground, presumably we can’t realign the stands? That’s a bit of a problem in my view.

Knighton must have shifted the footprint.

He did indeed. Can only presume that recent floods have moved the planning goalposts?

Yeah it's the floods

I can’t confirm at all and I don’t know but I’ve been told by a couple of people today to keep an eye out on companies house in the next few days regarding ownership news.

I can’t confirm at all and I don’t know but I’ve been told by a couple of people today to keep an eye out on companies house in the next few days regarding ownership news.

These sources the same quality as your vaccine informants?

I can’t confirm at all and I don’t know but I’ve been told by a couple of people today to keep an eye out on companies house in the next few days regarding ownership news.

These sources the same quality as your vaccine informants?

Yes

Might be something linked/getting it done by June 30th.

I’ve become so cynical towards the idea of regime change that I’d likely not believe it even if I saw it happening.

I don’t know what it is.

It could be about the loan.
It could be someone’s leaving.
It could be shares transferring.
Or it could be complete regime change - unlikely.

I don’t know, but I’ll keep an eye out for anything interesting.

If I had to hasten a guess, I wouldn’t be too excited, and it’s probably to do with the transfer of debt and the removal of a director from the holdings board.

I’m with Mullen-possibly debt forgiveness again into meaningless non voting shares and possible removal of the Trust blocking right.

Can’t see a buyer in this market

Apart from yourself of course!?!

Don’t tell me your latest round of takeover hint dropping was merely hot air and bluster

I’ve invested thousands of pounds in ‘Slavvy Bilic Blue and White’ army T-shirts thinking I would make a killing once you finally announced your bid

And you clearly bought it hook,line and sinker

Gotcha

A bit mean of you to mislead your fellow Blues as to your intentions

But at least we now know where you stand and can turn focus to serious potential investors

You clearly can’t read-I have repeatedly said that I have no intention or desire to invest in or buy the football club

I would be interested in a project involving the construction of a community based asset which comprises a new stadium but which is not owned by the club.Why?Well I know how to finance it and it would be something that did not promote the idea I was trying to make money out of it

Given how many parties have shown interest or attempted to take on the club it’s such a shame that these parties have not thought to get together as a group with the supporters on board and make a serious very public attempt to take over the club one that the present owners would have trouble pushing to one side, especially given what has happened to their golden goose hope EWM.
That way AL you could focus on the ground issue while others take on the football side of things.
The only sure long term plan for the club is for it to become self supporting and not have to rely on the generosity of one individual. If something doesn’t happen soon I fear that the clubs decline may well accelerate to the point that it no longer exists, all this back biting and insults are not in the least helpful when all any of us want is a club that can fulfill it’s potential and that we can be proud of.

You clearly can’t read-I have repeatedly said that I have no intention or desire to invest in or buy the football club

I would be interested in a project involving the construction of a community based asset which comprises a new stadium but which is not owned by the club.Why?Well I know how to finance it and it would be something that did not promote the idea I was trying to make money out of it

Genuine question on this Laffy - if the club did not have a ground as an asset, does that not leave them exposed in terms of finance/valuation?
Have always thought it odd over the years the valuation of the club seems way too high, mainly backed by the ground as an asset (which is pretty much worthless).
I suppose what I am saying is would it not remove the fallacy of the value of the club, and what would be the implications of that? A really low value would surely leave it open to predators?

As I said earlier, IHG are one of the biggest hoteliers in the world-they don’t own them.

The old game of leveraging the stadium to the bank died in the 2008 crash.Banks only lend on assets such as this with strong cashflow or PGs-EWM followed this route.Stadiums are a no no

A great example was Ibrox-HBOS lent huge sums against a dodgy £100m valuation for the stadium.At the end of the day, it’s a stadium in a shit part of Glasgow with no alternative use anywhere near £100m!

EWM is not in administration, is it? It came out.
Assuming the debt has passed to the new owners it would be very surprising if they didn't try and collect.
We have earned how much from players sales? £3m. Minus £1.5m from lost attendance money. So the cash is there to repay some of the loan at least. Bit tragic that when the Directors did so well to improve the finances they had the rug pulled from under their feet

Yes-it’s very unfortunate

Marko, EWM Holdings Ltd never went into administration but The Edinburgh Woollen Mill Limited did and will eventually be liquidated. Some of the assets including the Carlisle United loan were acquired by Purepay Retail Limited which is connected to associates of Day. So far Purepay have stepped into the shoes of EWM as regards the loan and their attitude towards repayment but yes that could change. It would be sad to see but if one of the directors with a pg were to die then that could be a trigger point for something to happen. I can't see their executors being at all happy with an outstanding pg and I wouldn't want to speculate on how it would be resolved.

EWM/Peacocks have been “taken over” or handed over to Days mate Simpson.

Simpson was born in Penrith and has family here. That may be beneficial news in terms of calling the loan in.

I’m with Laffy you’re not going to touch this club now with a million foot bargepoll unless you’ve had a labotomy or won the euro millions highest ever jackpot.

The owners had a chance to be part of something but they refused due to their self importance. They are stuck due to the “very unfortunate” events whereby in normal circumstances the fortunate football fortune might have been a way out but instead has been used to pop the club up, thankfully it came.

As for the future of the club now - worried!

Philip day will have worked all this out and come out rosey, he's pulled this straight out of the Trump/Green playbook.

I think Sir Lapp too often see’s the club with his accountants hat on.

Ground ownership isn’t just a financial issue. Some clubs who sold theirs have ended up in dispute with the owners and ground sharing miles away. Can’t play your home games on a slightly improved balance sheet.

Also there is sentimental attachment to BP. Ramshackle but also rather grand. Very rare that you visit an away ground and are jealous. Especially not when sitting on a park and ride bus crawling it’s way to the outskirts of Colchester.

Not totally closed off to the idea of a new ground. But it would have to be actually in Carlisle, similar capacity to BP, owned by the club and not some add on to a campus project for me to be enthusiastic

I think Sir Lapp too often see’s the club with his accountants hat on.

Ground ownership isn’t just a financial issue. Some clubs who sold theirs have ended up in dispute with the owners and ground sharing miles away. Can’t play your home games on a slightly improved balance sheet.

Also there is sentimental attachment to BP. Ramshackle but also rather grand. Very rare that you visit an away ground and are jealous. Especially not when sitting on a park and ride bus crawling it’s way to the outskirts of Colchester.

Not totally closed off to the idea of a new ground. But it would have to be actually in Carlisle, similar capacity to BP, owned by the club and not some add on to a campus project for me to be enthusiastic

A long term lease, community ownership of the stadium - a couple of ways of ensuring the security of any stay at a new ground not owned outright by the club.

Sentiment is irrelevant, I’m afraid. Many an afternoon and evening spent on those terraces, and even today I would divide my time between the WRE and the East stand. But it means nothing if the maintenance of the ground continues to cost a fortune, or if flooding continues to undermine the long term viability of BP.

In terms of capacity, I’d settle for something with as little as 12k seats - so long as scope was left for significant future development. As for location, the outskirts of the city would be fine by me - provided there were genuine, straightforward links between the city centre and the new development.

I struggle to see any reasonable argument for staying at BP if we cannot both guarantee it’s future and also redevelop it.

Why thank you Mansfield-we are aligned

BP is dear to all our hearts-but the success stories are outweighed by the failures and mediocrity.Even when we were in the first division, we were known as the ‘shoe string’ team.I’ve always struggled to spend sentiment at Tesco-its not a currency.

I look at this in an accountants way because football success is intrinsically linked to money-and BP devours cash.

There is no worry in my camp about splitting the asset off-it’s going to be owned as a community asset.I’m not Ron Noades or that guy in York.

I think Sir Lapp too often see’s the club with his accountants hat on.

Ground ownership isn’t just a financial issue. Some clubs who sold theirs have ended up in dispute with the owners and ground sharing miles away. Can’t play your home games on a slightly improved balance sheet.

Also there is sentimental attachment to BP. Ramshackle but also rather grand. Very rare that you visit an away ground and are jealous. Especially not when sitting on a park and ride bus crawling it’s way to the outskirts of Colchester.

Not totally closed off to the idea of a new ground. But it would have to be actually in Carlisle, similar capacity to BP, owned by the club and not some add on to a campus project for me to be enthusiastic

A long term lease, community ownership of the stadium - a couple of ways of ensuring the security of any stay at a new ground not owned outright by the club.

Sentiment is irrelevant, I’m afraid. Many an afternoon and evening spent on those terraces, and even today I would divide my time between the WRE and the East stand. But it means nothing if the maintenance of the ground continues to cost a fortune, or if flooding continues to undermine the long term viability of BP.

In terms of capacity, I’d settle for something with as little as 12k seats - so long as scope was left for significant future development. As for location, the outskirts of the city would be fine by me - provided there were genuine, straightforward links between the city centre and the new development.

I struggle to see any reasonable argument for staying at BP if we cannot both guarantee it’s future and also redevelop it.

A nice new little stadium doesn't necessary guarantee a bright future.

I think Sir Lapp too often see’s the club with his accountants hat on.

Ground ownership isn’t just a financial issue. Some clubs who sold theirs have ended up in dispute with the owners and ground sharing miles away. Can’t play your home games on a slightly improved balance sheet.

Also there is sentimental attachment to BP. Ramshackle but also rather grand. Very rare that you visit an away ground and are jealous. Especially not when sitting on a park and ride bus crawling it’s way to the outskirts of Colchester.

Not totally closed off to the idea of a new ground. But it would have to be actually in Carlisle, similar capacity to BP, owned by the club and not some add on to a campus project for me to be enthusiastic

A long term lease, community ownership of the stadium - a couple of ways of ensuring the security of any stay at a new ground not owned outright by the club.

Sentiment is irrelevant, I’m afraid. Many an afternoon and evening spent on those terraces, and even today I would divide my time between the WRE and the East stand. But it means nothing if the maintenance of the ground continues to cost a fortune, or if flooding continues to undermine the long term viability of BP.

In terms of capacity, I’d settle for something with as little as 12k seats - so long as scope was left for significant future development. As for location, the outskirts of the city would be fine by me - provided there were genuine, straightforward links between the city centre and the new development.

I struggle to see any reasonable argument for staying at BP if we cannot both guarantee it’s future and also redevelop it.

A nice new little stadium doesn't necessary guarantee a bright future.

Of course, but staying at an oversized, dilapidated, lob-sided, flood-prone tin shed doesn’t do us any favours!

Marko, EWM Holdings Ltd never went into administration but The Edinburgh Woollen Mill Limited did and will eventually be liquidated. Some of the assets including the Carlisle United loan were acquired by Purepay Retail Limited which is connected to associates of Day. So far Purepay have stepped into the shoes of EWM as regards the loan and their attitude towards repayment but yes that could change. It would be sad to see but if one of the directors with a pg were to die then that could be a trigger point for something to happen. I can't see their executors being at all happy with an outstanding pg and I wouldn't want to speculate on how it would be resolved.

Interesting. They can only call in the loan if the club is in default. And personal guarantees die with the guarantor. So, forgive me for saying, but financially aj passing on could be good news, money wise

How many clubs have come in to trouble after selling their ground and started renting elsewhere. It's not like we're Coventry and csn go and play our home games 15 miles down the road.

How many clubs have come in to trouble after selling their ground and started renting elsewhere. It's not like we're Coventry and csn go and play our home games 15 miles down the road.

So set it up in a fashion that’s safe for the club, a la the Keepmoat.

I don’t think PGs go fall away with the demise of the guarantor Marko but I agree they only get called on default

The problem is the terms of the EWM loan have never been disclosed in terms of length or default provision.

Why should the terms be disclosed. Its a privately owned company that happens to be a football club. It would not be made common knowledge if it was to a coffee shop that we all attended 20 odd times a year . Just breaking it down to basics not criticism. The one thing i find wierd is the three have signed PGs and the other large shareholder hasnt yet wants a say. Again that wouldn't happen in our hypothetical coffee shop scenario .
But football seems to be wierd like that..

The terms are usually disclosed to all the stakeholders so the Trust should know.

Accounts normally provide a bit of detail but the clue on term is the fact is sitting in long term rather than short term liabilities in the balance sheet.If would usually stroll into the latter when the remaining term is less than 12 months.

I’m old enough to remember the terms of the Bristol and West loan which MK signed up to-those Wonga like LLP terms were a real hot potato

Fair play to the guys who signed the PG for the club-I wouldn’t

A couple of foot added to the top of the flood defences over the last couple of weeks must have added at least another zero to BP's value.

And the ‘dance’ is complete-a very predictable but perfectly legal outcome

Philip Day’s ‘phoenixing’ scheme at Peacocks ruffles feathers

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bb67cde8-9c6a-11eb-8da6-6f8eecc82ac3?shareToken=fcf912bb4ad6bd736cfbdd87e55d5c9f

Marko, EWM Holdings Ltd never went into administration but The Edinburgh Woollen Mill Limited did and will eventually be liquidated. Some of the assets including the Carlisle United loan were acquired by Purepay Retail Limited which is connected to associates of Day. So far Purepay have stepped into the shoes of EWM as regards the loan and their attitude towards repayment but yes that could change. It would be sad to see but if one of the directors with a pg were to die then that could be a trigger point for something to happen. I can't see their executors being at all happy with an outstanding pg and I wouldn't want to speculate on how it would be resolved.

Interesting. They can only call in the loan if the club is in default. And personal guarantees die with the guarantor. So, forgive me for saying, but financially aj passing on could be good news, money wise

Personal Guarantees don't expire on death, they pass on to the estate. The probability if one of the guarantors were to die is that Purepay would give notice that repayment is required. The executors would then have to provide for the potential exposure in the event of default.