Most of us avoid tax-paying cash to window cleaners, car washes etc.That however is evasion, not avoidance, and it’s illegal

Correct. Although if people do a bit of cash in hand work because they are struggling to make ends meet, I have a bit of sympathy for that, although I don't condone it. There is no reason why Amazon should avoid paying tax however, they make far more money than anyone actually needs and you're right, the laws need to be changed. Anything new with your investments today Laffy?

There's very few who are self employed who haven't done one or two cash in hand jobs. There's got to be some perks in working for yoursel.

Morning Kes

Nothing much today though I see Stob have lost the Aer Lingus franchise.Unhelpful for them.

I’m keen on Hurricane with the oil price wakening up-it’s ridiculously cheap.Still like my Chariot which could explode on the next news

Morning Kes

Nothing much today though I see Stob have lost the Aer Lingus franchise.Unhelpful for them.

I’m keen on Hurricane with the oil price wakening up-it’s ridiculously cheap.Still like my Chariot which could explode on the next news

When you were talking about giving workers a bigger share in the companies they work for I had hoped I was starting to convert you to socialism. It really would be a far better system than the rampant greed capitalists have right now.

Forget it Kes-I’m a fair minded capitalist who believes in sharing upside with those who help you create it

Forget it Kes-I’m a fair minded capitalist who believes in sharing upside with those who help you create it

I'd agree with you if every business was like that. Unfortunately it seems that greed is inherent to the system. Capitalists seem obsessed with always trying to make more and more profit, rather than perhaps just learning to be content with what they have. There is an ugly culture of entitlement particularly among shareholders. Always demanding more growth, always expecting more of their staff, "I want I want". It's a very toxic attitude that I feel ultimately harms the workers. Because whenever there is money, the capitalists first thought on what to do with it is line his own pockets rather than share some of it with his staff. This is why I feel we need socialism. A fair society, where you get a fair days pay for a fair days work. A system where the culture of greed is robustly tackled.

There are exceptions to that, of which you are one. Whatever you think about me I would have no problem working for a company like yours. Treat me well, give me a fair pay, let me share some of the wealth I generated, and you get maximum effort and me going the extra mile. Take the piss, pay me the minimum, and you get the bare minimum effort in return.

I didn’t think it was illegal to pay someone cash in hand. Isn’t it down to the contractor to declare their earnings?

I didn’t think it was illegal to pay someone cash in hand. Isn’t it down to the contractor to declare their earnings?

Yeh, it's up to who you pay to pay the right tax / vat etc out of it.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/illegal-pay-someone-cash--10218678


A fair few who didn't got bitten on the arse when the covid schemes came out and they realised they were only going to get a proportion of what they'd actually declared, ho-ho

Good summary in that Mirror article but I think most people know when they are paying cash that they are probably avoiding VAT

I’ve just told my window cleaner to make sure he pays his taxes with my money.

He looked perplexed and said he has his own van.

You might be right.

Personally I’ve never used a window cleaning service but surely the blokes with their name plastered over a van must pay tax? I also assumed they also take cash as payment especially from pensioners and the like. Is that not true?. I realise a bloke with a ladder and a bucket is likely to be different.

I’ve paid my window cleaner is cash, since I got him 5 years ago.

I didn’t realise I had to state what he had to do with it.

Same I suppose if I go in a shop, make sure a proportion of this goes on Tax and VAT.

It sounds ridiculous doesn’t it.

As Laffy has stated above, if you pay tradesman in cash, you know the score.
I pay the window cleaner/coal man etc by BACS and they and I are happy with that arrangement.
The sooner cash disappears the better as far as I am concerned - and I too are self employed.

Why not ask for a receipt and see what reception you get?

I think a politician suggested it a while ago-I suspect he’s pursuing other interests now

There you go

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/17/ed-balls-ask-window-cleaner-receipts-criticised

Like I say I haven’t used a window cleaner. Would they be classed similar to a taxi or say a breakfast or after school club at a school. How can you be sure they are paying the correct amount of tax when you hand over your cash?.

It’s all fun and games for the cash in hand mob until they try to get a mortgage and the bank asks for three years of SA302s

I dont doubt that Ibo i just assumed that a reputable firm would be paying tax and also paying the lads who work for them in the proper manner as well. Do these firms not accept cash as payment? Only work ive had done were bigger jobs, fully invoiced by joinery and electrical firms and paid by bank transfer.

Like I say I haven’t used a window cleaner. Would they be classed similar to a taxi or say a breakfast or after school club at a school. How can you be sure they are paying the correct amount of tax when you hand over your cash?.

Nowt wrong with anybody paying somebody with cash. Doesn’t necessary means it’s underhand by any means.

It’s not up to the customer what kind of bookkeeping system (Or not) the business is using.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/16/equity-prices-soar-as-markets-react-to-moderna-vaccine

FTSE closed at 6241 Laffy. The breakthroughs on multiple vaccines seem to be giving the markets a much needed boost.

Ibo makes a very good point and it didn’t help when they all applied for grants and loans.

Same goes for those who pay dividends instead of salary to err avoid tax and NICs

Ibo makes a very good point and it didn’t help when they all applied for grants and loans.

Same goes for those who pay dividends instead of salary to err avoid tax and NICs

Yep, my heart bled when I saw they were complaining that 'they had fallen through the cracks' and weren't being looked after.

Declare your earnings, and pay the tax due like the rest of us then!

Ibo makes a very good point and it didn’t help when they all applied for grants and loans.

Same goes for those who pay dividends instead of salary to err avoid tax and NICs

Yep, my heart bled when I saw they were complaining that 'they had fallen through the cracks' and weren't being looked after.

Declare your earnings, and pay the tax due like the rest of us then!

Totally agree mate that they should pay tax. I just assumed a reputable firm or one that looks reputable would be doing that anyway. I remember when I was at school and had a milk round my boss used to go round every Friday afternoon with his satchel taking money in. He still paid his tax I’d have thought.

The revenue is a little smarter than you think. They know the numbers for window cleaners, taxi's, milkmen, take away's, etc, etc, etc where cash is often used.

Most (if not all) of the above will eek a bit away here and their, however in the whole scheme of things not enough to be of any importance.

Those that flagrantly ignore the system, usually get caught out, but not always.

Some shout " tax the rich " while slipping £20.00 here and their from cash payments.

The dividend system is the one that needs addressed, where senior Company employee's are paying themselves a low annual salary to avoid tax, then making it up in tax free divis.

Like all things, started for the right reasons, to improve Company performance as it comes from profit, latterly exploited by smart arse accountants.

Some shout " tax the rich " while slipping £20.00 here and their from cash payments.

I think there's a difference between that and the big companies doing it. A window cleaner doing the odd job in cash and not declaring it likely actually needs that money to pay the bills. Amazon doesn't have a genuine need for all the money they save through tax avoidance, nobody needs millions, and they are just taking the piss.

Good to see the SNP screaming this morning after Boris claimed their Devolution has been a ‘disaster’!

Boris's government so far has been an even bigger disaster so he has no room to criticise anyone

What he meant was the SNP has been a disaster for Scotland.

.......and he's right.

it's irrelevant, as they will implode soon.

"SNP crisis: Party fighting like 'rats in a sack' as MP speaks out ..."

"Nicola Sturgeon: Internal disputes 'risk to SNP success'"

"Enemy within is greatest threat to the SNP"

Be prepared for a Brexit deal in the next couple of days.......

Boris negative but still self isolating ????

Yep a sell out EU deal will come soon.

I’m with Silentone-it’s about time we had a politician with some grit.Brexit will be signed by this time next week

What gritty thing has he done recently?
What Brexit will be signed?
What do you think the deal will be?

The only thing gritty is giving contracts to his mates, wasting money and selling out to the EU.

I liked Boris, but come on he hasn’t been gritty he’s been a bloody failure on everything and never accepting responsibility.

Define failure Richard-every government has failed in this virus car crash, even much lauded Sweden which is now shown to be in trouble.

He wears his heart on his sleeve-that leaves him wide open and he has lost authority as a result.

But he saw off Corbyn-who I see has been shamefully restated to Labour tonight, and he will deliver Brexit.

What type of Brexit will it be though?

As for failures

World class track and trace
Schools exam results crisis
Continuous lockdowns
U turns
Confusing messages
Backing his man, who broke lockdown rules

It was a Brexit election, I’d have voted for Boris/Tory for the 1st time as he was the only one to go with it, it wasn’t though as they were many other issues, not 1 person voted at the last election on how the government would deal with a pandemic true.

There’s no way I’d have voted for Corbyn either.

What would you say his successes have been?

Define failure Richard-every government has failed in this virus car crash, even much lauded Sweden which is now shown to be in trouble.

He wears his heart on his sleeve-that leaves him wide open and he has lost authority as a result.

But he saw off Corbyn-who I see has been shamefully restated to Labour tonight, and he will deliver Brexit.

Take them blue tinted glasses off! HIS government’s handling of everything relating to the pandemic apart for the furlough scheme (magic money tree?) has been absolutely terrible, PPE, track and trace….shall I go on?

I’d say he opens his gob and crap comes out as opposed to wearing his heart on his sleeve.

And you’ve got the cheek to say he will deliver Brexit Even Steve Patt wouldn't say that!

What type of Brexit will it be though?

As for failures

World class track and trace
Schools exam results crisis
Continuous lockdowns
U turns
Confusing messages
Backing his man, who broke lockdown rules

It was a Brexit election, I’d have voted for Boris/Tory for the 1st time as he was the only one to go with it, it wasn’t though as they were many other issues, not 1 person voted at the last election on how the government would deal with a pandemic true.

There’s no way I’d have voted for Corbyn either.

What would you say his successes have been?

what were your reasons for not voting for Corbyn?

he wouldn’t deliver Brexit and all he did in PMQs was protest everything, even if it was good, and delay everything without offering any policies himself. He was annoying.

Couldn’t vote for Boris, very very nearly did but came to my senses that his a Tory and a millions of other things apart from Brexit, as we’ve now seen plus the austerity bollocks of years before.

No to the others so I went to the booth, on way to work, and spoiled my paper.

I’m with Silentone-it’s about time we had a politician with some grit.Brexit will be signed by this time next week

Laffy do you condemn tax dodger mullen selfishly using the ISA wrapper to shield his 6p profit from the tax man? Such an act is clearly on the same scale as Amazon funneling millions offshore.

Define failure Richard-every government has failed in this virus car crash, even much lauded Sweden which is now shown to be in trouble.

He wears his heart on his sleeve-that leaves him wide open and he has lost authority as a result.

But he saw off Corbyn-who I see has been shamefully restated to Labour tonight, and he will deliver Brexit.

Saw off Corbyn? Was hardly some heroic effort. He did it by hiding in fridges, stealing journo’s phones and avoiding interviews.

Shows more about how unelectable Corbo was than any endorsement of Bozza’s brilliance.

Corbyn and co were unvotable . So it wasnt much of a choice.

Boris didn't see off Corbyn .Corbyn did it all by himself.

what were your reasons for not voting for Corbyn?

For most it seems to be the view that however bad it is now, it would somehow be worse with Corbyn. Not sure why they think that, and interestingly if you ask them many can't even explain it themselves, all they know is that their newspaper said it would be worse therefore it's true. And a lot of people are too embarrassed to admit they fell for the media lies about "terrorist sympathizer" lies. But we're in an age where the truth no longer seems to matter, an age where people feel their falsehoods hold as much weight as genuine fact.

Well said.

And a lot of people are too embarrassed to admit they fell for the media lies about "terrorist sympathizer" lies.

A quick google of ‘Corbyn Red Action’ will suffice. Link included to cut the middleman. MI5 had a file on him due to these links!

That link only shows that he talked with various groups. You can't assume that automatically translates to sympathy or agreement with their cause. Corbyn has explicitly condemned IRA bombings.

How confident are you of a deal Laffy?


Failure to seal post-Brexit deal would more than halve UK growth, says KPMG

Kes-if you want to read a quality newspaper, drop the Guardian and read the Telegraph.Brexit will happen next week-Tuesday I think.

Ibo-you can only beat what is out in front of you.Boris destroyed Corbyn after May almost let him in-that is the best litmus test of his achievement.

Kes-if you want to read a quality newspaper, drop the Guardian and read the Telegraph.Brexit will happen next week-Tuesday I think.

Ibo-you can only beat what is out in front of you.Boris destroyed Corbyn after May almost let him in-that is the best litmus test of his achievement.

Already read The Guardian and the FT Laffy, not adding another.

Boris to do PMQs via zoom, he’s got something on starmer now.

Starmer random question:
Boris: well em em em the Labour Party reinstated a racist em em em without answering the question.

Blackford: Something about universal credit and Usual waffle of failing Scotland.
Boris: well em em em the Labour Party reinstated a racist em em em without answering the question.

I’ll watch 3 in a bed does come dine with me cook some shite sell some shite instead.

Boris to do PMQs via zoom, he’s got something on starmer now.

Starmer random question:
Boris: well em em em the Labour Party reinstated a racist em em em without answering the question.

Blackford: Something about universal credit and Usual waffle of failing Scotland.
Boris: well em em em the Labour Party reinstated a racist em em em without answering the question.

I’ll watch 3 in a bed does come dine with me cook some shite sell some shite instead.

It's almost as if the Tories have no real policies and nothing of substance, and need to resort to personal attacks and flinging dirt to try and distract from that.

Tbh Boris , Starmer and Blackford are all windbags . And i am unsure on this Corbyn thing . Looks like he said something akin to sorry mam to get back in rather than genuinely apologising. But i havent seen everything so could be wrong .