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  3. 17-12-2019 07:30
Now the GE is done and dusted, and with MP’s returning to Parliament today to begin being sworn in, we’ve locked the GE Thread last night, and you can now use this one for any Westminster related stuff.

Anything Brexit related will be moved to the ongoing Brexit Thread!

If you are quoting, please add a link to back it up. Post without and the quote may be removed.

Thanks.

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Boom

Politics latest news: Sir Keir Starmer begins damage limitation as Tories take 17-point poll lead in Hartlepool


Worth mentioning that this was a rather limited exercise - very small sample size.

Fully expect the monkey hangers to join the populist bandwagon though. The Prime Minister has cracked the magic formula known to some as ‘the cult of personality’, and Tory strategists have proven they are streets ahead of their opposition of late. Everybody in the nation seems to be on first name terms with the PM, whereas the leader of the opposition is simply ‘Starmer’.

Whatever your political views are, it’s clear that the Tory grip on the nation is tighter than it’s been for a generation. Scandals that would once have ended careers barely leave a scratch on the PM, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
  1. 04-05-2021 13:09
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You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the
Oh! hang on a min.
  1. 04-05-2021 14:06
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It’s a pretty big thing to get right though. I’m sure there would have been plenty of Labour mistakes!


Mystic Nobby! Bollocks.
  1. 04-05-2021 14:52
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Well he’s here for at least another 7 years sk you may as well learn to like him


There's nothing to like!
  1. 04-05-2021 14:54
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So, it looks like odds on that Bojo and the Tories are not only going to win, but obliterate the Labour Party in the Hartlepool by-election. Being one of the impregnable Red Wall areas, after this, anything is possible. Not long ago, the Tories were in fourth place in this area, what does this mean for the Labour Party, and it's future ? (if it has one in it's current state)

Looks like Jezza and Momentum have done irreparable damage.
  1. 04-05-2021 15:31
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For a party that is supposed to represent the working class you have a leader caller 'Sir Keir Starmer' - I bet he cut his working teeth down the pits of South Yorkshire, there is part of your problem, do you vote for one toffee nosed git or the other one?

One of the posh boys has garish interior and the one trying not to be posh with a Sir at the front of his name agrees with the other one on nearly everything but wants to stay in Europe - there you have it in a nutshell, who will you vote for?

I can see how his 'we can still be part of the EU - it doesn't have to be goodbye' rallying call to the Geordies is going to go - so can everyone else except from Labour.
  1. 04-05-2021 15:33
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Boom

Politics latest news: Sir Keir Starmer begins damage limitation as Tories take 17-point poll lead in Hartlepool


Worth mentioning that this was a rather limited exercise - very small sample size.

Fully expect the monkey hangers to join the populist bandwagon though. The Prime Minister has cracked the magic formula known to some as ‘the cult of personality’, and Tory strategists have proven they are streets ahead of their opposition of late. Everybody in the nation seems to be on first name terms with the PM, whereas the leader of the opposition is simply ‘Starmer’.

Whatever your political views are, it’s clear that the Tory grip on the nation is tighter than it’s been for a generation. Scandals that would once have ended careers barely leave a scratch on the PM, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.


Scandals like?
  1. 04-05-2021 16:54
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The Labour party still thinks it represents the common working man. Now a generation hasn’t had to go down a pit and join a union, they can see for themselves who to vote for.

‘I’m a Labour man, just like my father and Grandfather’ hopefully might be coming to an end.
  1. 04-05-2021 16:57
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The Labour party still thinks it represents the common working man. Now a generation hasn’t had to go down a pit and join a union, they can see for themselves who to vote for.

‘I’m a Labour man, just like my father and Grandfather’ hopefully might be coming to an end.


Labour should always be looking out for the working classes therefore people would be voting for them just like their father and grandfather if they have the policies in place that speak for you as a working class person.

I do hope that you are right though where people actually look at what represents them as an individual rather than what is in ingrained into a family's way of life - sadly you will get people, there are some on here, who think along the lines of 'my grandfather would turn in his grave if he found out I had voted tory - no chance'.
  1. 04-05-2021 17:55
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ccu
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Looks like Jezza and Momentum have done irreparable damage.


This.
  1. 04-05-2021 18:02
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I listened to Starmer on R4 this morning-he sounded like a throwback to a bygone age.A metropolitan intellectual so far out of touch with his core vote as to become irrelevant.A poor man’s Blair with no steel, no charisma but plenty of VD.

Hartlepool will be his high water mark-and another bunfight at Millbank between right and left will ensue.

Meanwhile Boris steamrollers all before him
  1. 04-05-2021 19:02
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I listened to Starmer on R4 this morning-he sounded like a throwback to a bygone age.A metropolitan intellectual so far out of touch with his core vote as to become irrelevant.A poor man’s Blair with no steel, no charisma but plenty of VD.

Hartlepool will be his high water mark-and another bunfight at Millbank between right and left will ensue.

Meanwhile Boris steamrollers all before him


I wouldn't say he steamrollers, there's no opposition. There's scandal after scandal about him nearly daily. His values and most of his cabinets are discussing! As long the rich are alright he's happy, what about the rest?
  1. 04-05-2021 21:35
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Hartlepool will be his high water mark-and another bunfight at Millbank between right and left will ensue.

Meanwhile Boris steamrollers all before him


I hope they take care of the pictures at Tate Britain while they have the bunfight. Labour Head Office moved out of the Millbank Tower nearly 20 years ago as they couldn't afford the £1 million a year rent. They're in much smaller premises at Victoria Street now.

Labour are becoming a party just for London and the university towns and cities. Sadiq Khan will win the London Mayoral election for Labour by a huge margin. I'm beginning to like him more as he has been unflinching in his support for the new Silvertown Tunnel which will cut congestion crossing the Thames east of Tower Bridge but it has infuriated the Green loonies. The Tory vote will be shocking but they picked a very poor candidate and some people will vote for Laurence Fox.
  1. 04-05-2021 22:11
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You’re right-I forgot they moved out nearly 20 years ago!
  1. 04-05-2021 22:32
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Just been reading about those Marilyn Manson abuse claims.

His girlfriend at the time is claiming that he fantasised about setting her naked body on fire.

I mean come on, you get involved with some bloke who smokes the bones of dead people and what do you expect - I would be more surprised to hear him say 'would you like another cup of tea'.

Saying that, I always thought that he was a fake but maybe this lass is right and he really is a weirdo in real life - it might cost him a bob or two if he admits it but it will give his career a much needed lift.
  1. 05-05-2021 19:12
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Looks like we may have another Mers-el-Kebir on our hands in the Channel
  1. 06-05-2021 11:42
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All being well, it should get the UK shellfish exporting issues resolved.
  1. 06-05-2021 12:37
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ccu
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As expected, Hartlepool is heading to the Tories.

Also in the local Elections, Tories picking up approx 40 Councils from Labour so far...
  1. 07-05-2021 06:26
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Hope they get back in the league, 4th at the moment
  1. 07-05-2021 06:55
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Hope they get back in the league, 4th at the moment


Aye, sooner see the likes of Hartlepool and Stockport back in rather than Torquay and Sutton.
  1. 07-05-2021 07:20
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What a fantastic result
  1. 07-05-2021 08:02
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Mandellson got it right this morning

Last 11 elections for Labour

Lose,lose, lose, lose, Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose,lose
  1. 07-05-2021 09:36
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Talking of Mandleson I thought Starmer scored a bit of an own goal focusing on sleaze leading up to the Hartlepool bye-election.

Mandleson was MP for years, they obviously don't mind a bit of sleaze in Hartlepool.
  1. 07-05-2021 10:08
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I’m not a fan of Mandelson but he is smart
  1. 07-05-2021 10:09
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Now Harry and Megs are playing politics by calling for all intellectual property rights for the Covid-19 vaccine to be waived. AZ are already selling the vaccine at cost price and making as much as they can. He shouldn't comment on things too complicated for his feeble little brain.
  1. 07-05-2021 10:29
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Daily Mail ran a survey of readers. Do you think Boris is a liar and a crook? Does Carrie have too much influence? Did Boris say bodies can pile up in the streets? Will you vote for Boris? 75% yes to all.
When the public sanctions behaviour like that what incentive is there for honesty?
Hartlepool piloted the universal credit scheme, crime rose 5 times and shops shut because of shoplifting.

From the local paper describing the effect.
"Spiralling crime, homelessness, loan sharks, hunger and evictions hit the town as claimants struggle to survive.

"Since the arrival of Universal Credit and cuts to the local police force, crime has leapt in Hartlepool.

"The hawking of stolen goods has become a regular occurrence on the streets of the town, and even drug dealers now find themselves on the receiving end of crime.


When you vote for it, sit on your sofa with a bag over your head, its the best thing for you.
  1. 07-05-2021 10:52
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He may be mad Marko but he’s popular and that’s a powerful cocktail

The problem with Labour up here is those in charge are still fixated with coal, steel, Thatcher.To remind all, she left power 30 years ago.We have moved on and battering on about her and traditional heavy industry decline means nothing to most people under 50
  1. 07-05-2021 10:58
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Not a great night for British politics, however a wake up call for those Councils sitting on their hands, doing mandatory work only, and providing a sxxt service to customers.

Labour is broken, and Starmer is only a stepping stone in time to making them electable again. We can now expect a blood-letting within, as the old left start the blame game.

Not sure if the middle ground really exists anymore, maybe it's gone, the Liberals are also a lost cause.

So, it looks like left or right, and right is where we are headed.

For now, Bojo is his own worst enemy, he is capable of saying, or doing something that his party grandee's will get the hump about.

We are all the losers, as without strong opposition, complacency rules.

Our own County Council is dominated by Labour, so we know where the motivation for change, for those in Hartlepool came from.
  1. 07-05-2021 11:25
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Kinda predictable: 12.33pm

"General Secretary of Unite the Union Len McCluskey, has said he hopes Sir Keir Starmer “learns the correct lessons” from Labour’s defeat in the Hartlepool by-election.

“He was elected a year ago on a radical programme, some said a Corbyn-esque programme; he said he wanted to make the moral case for socialism; he wanted a united party - unfortunately he’s failed in all of those areas.

"Hartlepool is the manifestation of it - people don’t know what his vision is. People don’t know what Labour stand for anymore.”

Speaking on Political Thinking, Mr McCluskey told Nick Robinson he no longer spoke to the Labour leader.

“Unfortunately when either side actually don’t deliver the deal and say there wasn’t a deal, trust breaks down, and that’s what happened with me and Keir.

But he added: “Obviously if he rang me I would speak to him. I don’t want to be nasty to anybody."

"But the truth of the matter at the moment is unless he presses that reset button, unless he goes back to making the moral case for socialism, unless he starts talking about the radical alternative for ordinary working people then I’m afraid we’ll find ourselves in this continuous downward decline
.”
  1. 07-05-2021 12:40
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He may be mad Marko but he’s popular and that’s a powerful cocktail

The problem with Labour up here is those in charge are still fixated with coal, steel, Thatcher.To remind all, she left power 30 years ago.We have moved on and battering on about her and traditional heavy industry decline means nothing to most people under 50


He's only popular because the tory press big him up. Beating up girlfriends and hiding in fridges don't bring popularity.
Labour are no opposition. They will mirror the tories and we'll end up with an American system where the 2 parties agree on 99% of policy. If Labour doesn't go that way they'll cease to exist.

Be interesting to see what happens here. Support for independence fallen from 60-40%. Lets see how that translates into the SNP vote. Sturgeons popularity slumped after people realised what mince lockdown was. Now she's shouting about independence while doing every thing to strangle it. As time passes that will come back to bite her
  1. 07-05-2021 12:46
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Corbyn was meant to be the new start.

Starmer was meant to be the new start.

You might need to give whoever is next some of your batteries Laffy as the others seem to keep breaking down.
  1. 07-05-2021 12:54
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I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.
  1. 07-05-2021 13:07
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I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.


I get the feeling half the people of Hartlepool don't know what day it is. However, blame what, who, whatever you like, the change has a massive political impact for the Labour Party. How could they promise voters anything, after Corbyn's never ending, "we'll nationalise this, we'll pay for that, we'll give free the other" knowing fine well it was an impossibility.

A time comes, when things are really bad, the best option is to clear the decks and start again. a bit like Kinnock did with Militant.

Socialism is dead in the water, time to get real.
  1. 07-05-2021 13:24
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https://apple.news/AJBfDW-LhTCORlZCWqy1Nxg
  1. 07-05-2021 14:06
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One for Sir Lapp: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/07/humiliation-hartlepool-smalltown-detective-di-starmer

You called her a ‘silly bitch’ when she poked fun at BoJo, but now she’s having a pop at dreary Keir-ey you might even crack a smile

She’s even wittier than I, if you can imagine such a thing
  1. 07-05-2021 14:56
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Classic paragraph.

On Starmer:

"Wherever he campaigned during this local elections run, he looked like the classic smalltown detective battling his demons, who’s been transferred there from somewhere else in circumstances he doesn’t like to talk about. I quite like Angela Rayner as his earthy, big-hearted local DS, but she doesn’t seem to get any screentime. You get the feeling that DI Starmer is still haunted by the case of a drowned socialite he failed to solve 15 years ago. Boris Johnson, meanwhile, was shagging the socialite and probably accidentally drove the car off a pier then left her to die. And at some level, an aspirational public respects the work."
  1. 07-05-2021 15:18
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One for Sir Lapp: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/07/humiliation-hartlepool-smalltown-detective-di-starmer

You called her a ‘silly bitch’ when she poked fun at BoJo, but now she’s having a pop at dreary Keir-ey you might even crack a smile

She’s even wittier than I, if you can imagine such a thing


She's very good, always great articles.
  1. 07-05-2021 15:32
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I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.


So parachuting in a staunch Remainer, proposing a second referendum and rejoing the EU, into a 70% leave constituency isn’t Labour’s fault?
  1. 07-05-2021 15:34
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Mandellson got it right this morning

Last 11 elections for Labour

Lose,lose, lose, lose, Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose,lose



It’s always great when lefties say ‘ah but Blair wasn’t REAL Labour’
So thats 42 year without a ‘real’ Labour Government then? They still do not understand.
  1. 07-05-2021 15:36
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He may be mad Marko but he’s popular and that’s a powerful cocktail

The problem with Labour up here is those in charge are still fixated with coal, steel, Thatcher.To remind all, she left power 30 years ago.We have moved on and battering on about her and traditional heavy industry decline means nothing to most people under 50


He's only popular because the tory press big him up. Beating up girlfriends and hiding in fridges don't bring popularity.
Labour are no opposition. They will mirror the tories and we'll end up with an American system where the 2 parties agree on 99% of policy. If Labour doesn't go that way they'll cease to exist.

Be interesting to see what happens here. Support for independence fallen from 60-40%. Lets see how that translates into the SNP vote. Sturgeons popularity slumped after people realised what mince lockdown was. Now she's shouting about independence while doing every thing to strangle it. As time passes that will come back to bite her


By that token, why would non Tories be buying Tory papers in the first place? Blaming newspapers for election results is a red herring and is an insult to voters.
  1. 07-05-2021 15:39
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I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.


So parachuting in a staunch Remainer, proposing a second referendum and rejoing the EU, into a 70% leave constituency isn’t Labour’s fault?


If they'd got the 30% remainers to come out and vote, they'd have won :) - it's more a general apathy towards politics
  1. 07-05-2021 15:49
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The problem with the Labour Party is that they think voters are stupid.As I said it’s the metropolitan intellectuals who control the party and who are out of touch

I also think the left and right stuff is over-it’s about what can you do for me?
  1. 07-05-2021 15:57
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Labours problems boil down to the fact their core vote has split. Brexit and Corbyn have managed that. You now have two camps with vastly different world views.

1. Younger, students/professionals, degree educated, live in big cities, pro remain, pro wokeness, anti patriotism, almost ashamed of what Britain stands for and its history.
2. Traditional labour voters, probably a bit older, live in smaller regional cities/towns, pro brexit, anti wokeness, very patriotic and proud of the country and its history.

They can no longer appeal to both groups.

During Corbyns time as leader they basically assumed the traditional labour voter would never vote Tory so they chased group number 1 - trying to overturn brexit for example. This was helped by the Brexit Party splitting some of the Tory vote in places like Hartlepool. That distain for those peoples views now see group number 2 looking at the Tories and seeing a party more in line with their world view. You can shout the Tories are evil sleazebags etc. all you want - it wont work.

Working people want help to get better jobs and buy a house etc. The tories can at least offer this (whether they deliver is another matter). What do Labour offer - blame the rich for your worries, oh and here, have some more benefits. Its a crap offer. If you disagree you're a thick racist xenophobe apparently. A great quote I read from an ex Labour voter in Hartlepool was "Labour now is rich people telling poor people that other rich people are the problem". Sums it up nicely.

They may start to pick up some of the traditional tory seats around London - but there arnt enough of those to counterbalance the Labour collapse, firstly Scotland and now the North/Midlands.

I hear Corbynites on TV saying they need to be even more radical in order to win. Not only can you not get much more radical than Corybn without being a full communist but they are also completely wrong. Any hope they have of becoming more than just a London student based party rests with them being able to be radically un-radical. E.g. Start reflecting the views of the country rather than a small bunch of champagne Socialists and trade unionists who don't have a clue.
  1. 07-05-2021 16:05
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Labours problems boil down to the fact their core vote has split. Brexit and Corbyn have managed that. You now have two camps with vastly different world views.

1. Younger, students/professionals, degree educated, live in big cities, pro remain, pro wokeness, anti patriotism, almost ashamed of what Britain stands for and its history.
2. Traditional labour voters, probably a bit older, live in smaller regional cities/towns, pro brexit, anti wokeness, very patriotic and proud of the country and its history.

They can no longer appeal to both groups.

During Corbyns time as leader they basically assumed the traditional labour voter would never vote Tory so they chased group number 1 - trying to overturn brexit for example. This was helped by the Brexit Party splitting some of the Tory vote in places like Hartlepool. That distain for those peoples views now see group number 2 looking at the Tories and seeing a party more in line with their world view. You can shout the Tories are evil sleazebags etc. all you want - it wont work.

Working people want help to get better jobs and buy a house etc. The tories can at least offer this (whether they deliver is another matter). What do Labour offer - blame the rich for your worries, oh and here, have some more benefits. Its a crap offer. If you disagree you're a thick racist xenophobe apparently. A great quote I read from an ex Labour voter in Hartlepool was "Labour now is rich people telling poor people that other rich people are the problem". Sums it up nicely.

They may start to pick up some of the traditional tory seats around London - but there rant enough of those to counterbalance the Labour collapse, firstly Scotland and now the North/Midlands.

I hear Corbynites on TV saying they need to be even more radical in order to win. Not only can you not get much more radical than Corybn without being a full communist but they are also completely wrong. Any hope they have of becoming more than just a London student based party rests with them being able to be radically un-radical. E.g. Start reflecting the views of the country rather than a small bunch of champagne Socialists and trade unionists who don't have a clue.


Spot on there Blues86.
  1. 07-05-2021 16:10
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No signs of an SNP collapse so far.
  1. 07-05-2021 16:52
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Good may yet come of this for Labour. Starmer needs to take the bull by the horns and stamp out the remnants of the Corbyn experiment. If the Labour left still wants ‘Corbynism’, let them go elsewhere for it.

McClucking moron and his ilk need booting into touch too, their continual bleating is drowning out the moderate voices and leaving the electorate convinced that Labour are a bunch of borderline Stalinists. Len is a pound shop Scargill. Nothing more.

England will be a one party state if the moderates don’t take control of the Labour Party soon. Time for Starmer to show his metal.
  1. 07-05-2021 17:00
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Good quote from respected Labour MP for Perry Barr saying the party has ben lost to London woke warriors. Really hoping a lot will be looking at themselves in the mirror and realise they are doing more harm than good.
  1. 07-05-2021 18:48
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The metropolitan intellectuals
  1. 07-05-2021 18:52
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