Welcome To The UK You Magnificent B@stard.

Got to hand it to Corbyn using his shouty Trump protest speech to attack racism and misogyny.
In a week when Labour are being investigated for institutional racism and his office appear to have resisted calls to boot out Corbyn advisor/John Prescott’s son for being a bit of a sex pest wrong ‘un with previous for taking a shite in anger on the kitchen floor of one young lady who resisted his sexual charms.

Anyhow the protest itself got me thinking why all these people wern't at work but i suppose personal hygyne like masking the smell of cats piss and being smart in appearance are well down the pecking order when your a career layabout.

pacirv wrote: I see trump has said that the NHS has to be on the table in any trade deal with the USA.
Brexit just gets better and better the dick thinks that we will be so desperate for any deal that he can screw us over.

A good deal of equipment used in hospitals is USA manufactured or developed, I would guess the USA would want access to the NHS with a view to provide support / estate services, much like Interserve does at the NCUH Trust. Which is probably the way the NHS will go anyway with private companies supplying the buildings and support and the NHS providing the clinicians.

Funny that the hundreds of thousands predicted at the protest today didn't turn up, blaming the rain.

There again snowflakes would be washed away by the rain.

Mainly us older ones know how hard things were in the past but understand that even a short term downturn in fortunes that may happen after Brexit then our children will benefit in the long run.

Nobody had any money when we were kids and spent glorious days kicking a football around or jumping off Holme Head Bay, wouldn't change it for the world.

Character defining times and if going back to basics is the way forward then so be it.

Oh and you had to be home in time for your mince and tattties - ace.

munchymagic wrote: Mainly us older ones know how hard things were in the past but understand that even a short term downturn in fortunes that may happen after Brexit then our children will benefit in the long run.

Nobody had any money when we were kids and spent glorious days kicking a football around or jumping off Holme Head Bay, wouldn't change it for the world.

Character defining times and if going back to basics is the way forward then so be it.

I would agree but we live in a world where people feel they should be entitled to everything from the state, it boils my blood as a 62 year old man who has worked from the age of 16, calls at the local shop on my way home from work and can't next near the place for teenage mothers in their pyjamas. And we are the ones ruining the younger generations lives.

On another issue there are a lot of people who are happy to offend others, which is wrong, but there are probably ten times that who are happy to be offended, political correctness gone mad.

Am currently watching Boris being slated for comparing Muslim women wearing the veil to letter boxes, really, is that offensive or just British humour or banter. I better be careful or I will be labelled facist.

You know all us brexiteers are facist by nature, I might as well change my name by deed poll to Adolf or Benitto.

It's alright, any under 30's reading this won't have a [censored] clue to whome I am reffering.

You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

So it's ok then to milk the state rather than get a job. And don't give me the crap that there's no jobs going. It's made to easy for them to get benefits. I'm 75 and I've no intention of shuffling off to my grave just to appease you.

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

Hahaha.

You are a dick head and Trump has Trumped you.

Glad you were offended.

Hahahahahahaha.

Why would an American company ever stop at providing building services and not provide medical services?

When obamacare came in the billable cost to Americans fell so companies like blue Cross shipped in doctors from the 3rd world. In places like ossining women were having smear tests administered by a guy from Moldova whose salary 6 weeks before had been 150£a month and who brought his mate with him because the mate spoke at least some English. And if you don't like that you can go to the free clinic. There is 1 doctor for 5000 people and if you are in work they won't see you.

This is what farage will do us. It will be an absolute tragedy if we lose the NHS, the most effective medical service in the world

Our NHS is very much like our state education system. Some people are very well served by it but others are short-changed. Often it depends in which part of the country you live as to the quality of treatment. Unfortunately with the cost of scanners etc the NHS cannot afford to provide the same level of treatment nationwide. Therefore it can only be sensible to consider all the options to continue to provide high quality free healthcare.

Marko, we already have many Moldovans working in UK healthcare. Most Moldovans can claim a grandparent from Romania which entitles them to a Romanian EU passport. I had my blood taken by a very nice young Romanian hca last week. No she wasn't from Transylvania. Like it or not the NHS needs international involvement to function.

Markovitch wrote: Why would an American company ever stop at providing building services and not provide medical services?

When obamacare came in the billable cost to Americans fell so companies like blue Cross shipped in doctors from the 3rd world. In places like ossining women were having smear tests administered by a guy from Moldova whose salary 6 weeks before had been 150£a month and who brought his mate with him because the mate spoke at least some English. And if you don't like that you can go to the free clinic. There is 1 doctor for 5000 people and if you are in work they won't see you.

This is what farage will do us. It will be an absolute tragedy if we lose the NHS, the most effective medical service in the world

Marko, this is bullsxxt, and you know it. No UK politician would survive in any election on the basis of selling off the NHS, you are starting to sound like her: www.thesun.co.uk/news/9225388/milkshake-...onald-trump-protest/

Who turns out to be a mental care nurse in the NHS, she needs it..........

The young Policewomen looks petrified.

NHS offering £127 m of contracts to private companies despite health secretary pledging: 'No privatization on my watch'



www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/n...hworth-a8857021.html

Can Virgin make as big an arse of the hospitals as they did of the trains? Costs as much to go from Carlisle to London as it does to fly to Moscow.

As Nigel Farage said
'I cannot help taking the view that the NHS was better run in the Sixties, where the state controlled it outright and we had matrons running the wards. '

So why wasn't everyone stomping there feet and shouting about privatisation, when Martlew and Blair flogged off Carlisle Hospital to a PFI contract that we can no longer afford ???

£485 million worth of Private Finance Initiative (PFI) contracts were awarded to Carillion during the last Labour government. This compares to £347 million awarded during the Coalition government, and another £439 million awarded over a few months by the Conservative government up to the end of 2015.


You quote the Independent, well eat this: www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pf...-crash-a8202661.html


Just in-case you can't be bothered to read it, i highlight one paragraph:

Across the NHS, PFI repayments have contributed to hospital mergers, closures and downgrades. Long-time critic of PFI Professor Pollock argues that these mergers will be followed by the final “wave of closures in the run-up to privatisation and franchising out”. She astutely points out the great irony that PFI was once hailed as the largest NHS hospital-building programme; in fact it is likely to end up becoming the largest hospital closure programme.

Can't argue with any of that SO. The wee clinic in our town has 1 doctor who is part-time. The rest that come in are locums. They don't want to be partners because it would mean taking on huge amounts of debt because of the debt the practice took on when the building was built.


But doesn't that prove that the NHS and business don't go together? You can't have a health care business across the whole population because the cost of treatment has no relation to patient income and patients can't choose which illnesses they get. That's why its better in the Governments hands.

I see the Government agency that was set up to unload toxic loans paid its last loan back to the Government today. Years early. Apparently the Governments can run banks as well as hospitals better than capitalists.

www.euronews.com/2019/06/05/uk-bad-bank-...-of-crisis-era-loans

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

I think he has a point about political correctness, and it always seems to be one way. The younger generation always talk about people needing to be more tolerant, while at the same time they go around calling people nazis for disagreeing with them, and throwing milkshakes at people with different opinions.

munchymagic wrote:

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

Hahaha.

You are a dick head and Trump has Trumped you.

Glad you were offended.

Hahahahahahaha.

Haha that’s it? I’m not offended because you haven’t said anything coherently offensive other than childish insults, you can call me a [censored] all day long but it doesn’t mean anything. This is why I was saying you should grow up, despite you apparently being an old man.

The fact that you have to jump through so many hoops to justify your position should tell you something. Used to be quite funny reading your idiotic responses on here, proper Alan Partrdige stuff but with more racism. Now it just fills me with pity and sadness. Your response perfectly captures what I said about being motivated by spite and wanting to play the victim.

Kessler, I can see your point regarding political correctness but the we also can’t be tolerant of intolerance. If someone holds far right viewpoints and wants to support someone spouting bigotry and discrimination, then it doesn’t make any logical sense to be tolerant of that, because they aren’t the victim, they’re the problem. In this context they brought up unprompted Boris comparing Muslim women to letter boxes, which happened years ago anyway, and then trying to position themselves as being the victim because they can no longer bully a minority due to “PoLiTiCaL CoRrEcTnEsS”. I don’t think you can apply political correctness to an invalid viewpoint.

BlueWave wrote: Kessler, I can see your point regarding political correctness but the we also can’t be tolerant of intolerance. If someone holds far right viewpoints and wants to support someone spouting bigotry and discrimination, then it doesn’t make any logical sense to be tolerant of that, because they aren’t the victim, they’re the problem. In this context they brought up unprompted Boris comparing Muslim women to letter boxes, which happened years ago anyway, and then trying to position themselves as being the victim because they can no longer bully a minority due to “PoLiTiCaL CoRrEcTnEsS”. I don’t think you can apply political correctness to an invalid viewpoint.

How would you feel if someone screamed abuse at you or threw a milkshake at you for having that view? And they then justified it by saying "well we can't tolerate his intolerance".

Waltero wrote: So it's ok then to milk the state rather than get a job. And don't give me the crap that there's no jobs going. It's made to easy for them to get benefits. I'm 75 and I've no intention of shuffling off to my grave just to appease you.

So you view provision of basic healthcare as “milking the state”? People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for healthcare in America, do you have that kind of money to cover you when your health declines? Which by your age will happen sooner rather than later. Even at 75, you’ve been covered by the NHS for your entire life .

There’s a strong link between countries with higher taxes but greater socialisation and the wellbeing/happiness of its citizens. You’re the one who brought up people “sponging from the state”. You’re just making a false equivalence with people on benefits being the problem to scapegoat from your own ridiculous argument.

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

I may not be able to spell fascist, but I can spell arsehole.

Well that's 3 interviews i have seen saying the same thing. Bloomberg, CNBC, and even the Remai biased BBC

People tend to think of the NHS as a fully state-run body. “But,” he says, “the reality is that the English NHS is already open to private companies and indeed to US companies.”
“There are UK laws that give private companies a fair crack in providing what the NHS needs. So it’s not clear that any trade deal could take matters beyond what we already have.”

But as usual there's smoke and mirrors and people make out its the end of the NHS and it will be an insurance-based service .

Kessler wrote:

BlueWave wrote: Kessler, I can see your point regarding political correctness but the we also can’t be tolerant of intolerance. If someone holds far right viewpoints and wants to support someone spouting bigotry and discrimination, then it doesn’t make any logical sense to be tolerant of that, because they aren’t the victim, they’re the problem. In this context they brought up unprompted Boris comparing Muslim women to letter boxes, which happened years ago anyway, and then trying to position themselves as being the victim because they can no longer bully a minority due to “PoLiTiCaL CoRrEcTnEsS”. I don’t think you can apply political correctness to an invalid viewpoint.

How would you feel if someone screamed abuse at you or threw a milkshake at you for having that view? And they then justified it by saying "well we can't tolerate his intolerance".

So you’re asking what if someone was intolerant of someone being intolerant of intolerance, and decided to scream abuse/throw a milkshake at me? I mean I would feel like it was unjustified given the moderate position and assume that they’re upset that someone is challenging them on their intolerance, which would put them in the wrong. The milkshakes and insults would therefore not have much of an effect.

It’s only a bit of sticky milk, which is obviously much preferable to a bullet, which is what the actual fascists got, nobody seemed to have a problem with that until recently

Dentonholmersimpson wrote:

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

I may not be able to spell fascist, but I can spell arsehole.

As I say grow up. At least say something with substance, you might actually offend me then

BlueWave wrote:

Kessler wrote:

BlueWave wrote: Kessler, I can see your point regarding political correctness but the we also can’t be tolerant of intolerance. If someone holds far right viewpoints and wants to support someone spouting bigotry and discrimination, then it doesn’t make any logical sense to be tolerant of that, because they aren’t the victim, they’re the problem. In this context they brought up unprompted Boris comparing Muslim women to letter boxes, which happened years ago anyway, and then trying to position themselves as being the victim because they can no longer bully a minority due to “PoLiTiCaL CoRrEcTnEsS”. I don’t think you can apply political correctness to an invalid viewpoint.

How would you feel if someone screamed abuse at you or threw a milkshake at you for having that view? And they then justified it by saying "well we can't tolerate his intolerance".

So you’re asking what if someone was intolerant of someone being intolerant of intolerance, and decided to scream abuse/throw a milkshake at me? I mean I would feel like it was unjustified given the moderate position and assume that they’re upset that someone is challenging them on their intolerance, which would put them in the wrong. The milkshakes and insults would therefore not have much of an effect.

It’s only a bit of sticky milk, which is obviously much preferable to a bullet, which is what the actual fascists got, nobody seemed to have a problem with that until recently

So what you are saying is that by mentioning Boris and his letterbox comment is bullying a minority apparently, yet advocating some people on here '' shuffle off to their grave'' is ok.

The mindset of the new tolerant left in action.

Bullshit.

BlueWave wrote:

Dentonholmersimpson wrote:

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

I may not be able to spell fascist, but I can spell arsehole.

As I say grow up. At least say something with substance, you might actually offend me then

Check the definition of arsehole and then decide if my comment carries any substance.

Better still, I'll give you a clue.

A stupid, irritating or conteptible person.

If that makes me ''intolerant'', I can live with that.

BlueWave wrote:

munchymagic wrote:

BlueWave wrote: You two come over as deluded bitter old men, its massively cringe-worthy.

You accuse people under 30 of not knowing who Hitler and Mussolini are yet can't even spell the word Fascist correctly.

The way you come off is painted into a corner where you've talked up some very questionable people to appear edgy and get a reaction, who are now telling you to your face that they're going to screw you over and sell out your sovereignty and healthcare, leaving you with no reasonable arguments, so you just start posting random nonsense about snowflakes and political correctness to deflect.

That would be too embarrassing to admit if you're a moral coward though. The world isn't going away, you're just advocating making it harder for people to live in so you don't have to feel bad, and its purely out of spite and wanting to play the victim. Grow up, get over yourselves or shuffle off to the grave already.

Hahaha.

You are a dick head and Trump has Trumped you.

Glad you were offended.

Hahahahahahaha.

Haha that’s it? I’m not offended because you haven’t said anything coherently offensive other than childish insults, you can call me a [censored] all day long but it doesn’t mean anything. This is why I was saying you should grow up, despite you apparently being an old man.

The fact that you have to jump through so many hoops to justify your position should tell you something. Used to be quite funny reading your idiotic responses on here, proper Alan Partrdige stuff but with more racism. Now it just fills me with pity and sadness. Your response perfectly captures what I said about being motivated by spite and wanting to play the victim.

Kessler, I can see your point regarding political correctness but the we also can’t be tolerant of intolerance. If someone holds far right viewpoints and wants to support someone spouting bigotry and discrimination, then it doesn’t make any logical sense to be tolerant of that, because they aren’t the victim, they’re the problem. In this context they brought up unprompted Boris comparing Muslim women to letter boxes, which happened years ago anyway, and then trying to position themselves as being the victim because they can no longer bully a minority due to “PoLiTiCaL CoRrEcTnEsS”. I don’t think you can apply political correctness to an invalid viewpoint.

"Used to be quite funny reading your idiotic responses on here, proper Alan Partrdige stuff but with more racism"

I like the Alan Partridge bit but I am no racist, I have shitloads of foreign friends of differing colours and nationalities that would back that up for me too.

Am not even an angry person either as even Kessler can back me up on the one time I did meet her I was well within my rights to tell that old codger to go screw himself but I was with my young lad and to be fair Kessler did successfully defuse the situation.

You are bang out of order on that one.

The real irony is that the so called far right, who actually just want to have the democratic right to run their own country, as opposed to being dictated to from Brussels are now classed as fascists, which is sheer desperation by the left.

At the same time we have Corbyn's bully boy Momentum members physically and verbally abusing old age pensioners at the anti Trump rally and spouting their hatred and bile on social media to anyone with different views to theirs, even fellow members of the Labour Party, anti semetic and proud of it.

So who are the real fascists?

BlueWave wrote:

Kessler wrote:

BlueWave wrote: Kessler, I can see your point regarding political correctness but the we also can’t be tolerant of intolerance. If someone holds far right viewpoints and wants to support someone spouting bigotry and discrimination, then it doesn’t make any logical sense to be tolerant of that, because they aren’t the victim, they’re the problem. In this context they brought up unprompted Boris comparing Muslim women to letter boxes, which happened years ago anyway, and then trying to position themselves as being the victim because they can no longer bully a minority due to “PoLiTiCaL CoRrEcTnEsS”. I don’t think you can apply political correctness to an invalid viewpoint.

How would you feel if someone screamed abuse at you or threw a milkshake at you for having that view? And they then justified it by saying "well we can't tolerate his intolerance".

So you’re asking what if someone was intolerant of someone being intolerant of intolerance, and decided to scream abuse/throw a milkshake at me? I mean I would feel like it was unjustified given the moderate position and assume that they’re upset that someone is challenging them on their intolerance, which would put them in the wrong. The milkshakes and insults would therefore not have much of an effect.

It’s only a bit of sticky milk, which is obviously much preferable to a bullet, which is what the actual fascists got, nobody seemed to have a problem with that until recently

C'mon, it wasn't just a ' bit of sticky milk ' was it ? On at least two occasions a bunch of thugs knocked senior citizens to the ground because they supported Trump. That is nothing but out and out thuggery. The cowardly bullies, then slunk off into the crowd like rats looking for the nearest sewer. They should be ashamed of their actions, this is the type of aggressive behavior we are witnessing more and more by left wing idiots.

They should be hunted down and brought to book for assault, it appears the NHS lady is regretting her part in it now. Maybe her employers weren't over impressed !!

BlueWave wrote:

Waltero wrote: So it's ok then to milk the state rather than get a job. And don't give me the crap that there's no jobs going. It's made to easy for them to get benefits. I'm 75 and I've no intention of shuffling off to my grave just to appease you.

So you view provision of basic healthcare as “milking the state”? People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for healthcare in America, do you have that kind of money to cover you when your health declines? Which by your age will happen sooner rather than later. Even at 75, you’ve been covered by the NHS for your entire life .

There’s a strong link between countries with higher taxes but greater socialisation and the wellbeing/happiness of its citizens. You’re the one who brought up people “sponging from the state”. You’re just making a false equivalence with people on benefits being the problem to scapegoat from your own ridiculous argument.

Show us a government that got itself elected on it's promise to increase taxes. I get that Labour would plan to tax the rich but, unfortunately we ALL need to pay more tax if we expect to receive the services we want. Successive governments have removed low earners from tax but, they've failed to increase the rate for the rest of us to make up the shortfall they have created. The Lib Dems did suggest an increase that would be ringfenced for the NHS but, they wouldn't have had to implement it 'cos they were never gonna get elected. I often disagree with Marko, many of us do but, I can see his point about how the government spends our coin, HS2 being an example and our interference in the middle east (If Boris is to face court for lying to the public, Blair, campbell and a few others should be getting their summonses as I type) However, if we want good public services, WE have to pay for them through taxation whether we like it or not. I agree with others on here that it is too easy to exploit the benefits system, there are plenty who take advantage which only deprives those who are genuinely in need of help.

I often speak to people and air my views and I'm in the Right Wing group according to them is it wrong to look after our own, agree our own tariffs, dictate who comes into our country, I'm so confused ???

Are we even allowed to promote "buy british" anymore? or have our European friends made this illegal? As regards Donald's chlorinated chicken? I personally just would not buy it, I'd try and support a local supplier or at least a British one. Does this make me right wing? A food fascist even? I too am confused!

Here was me thinking the far right were fascists and the far left were communists.
How wrong I have been.

I'm not even sure if I'm right or left can we not have a in between group to think about it?

I hope it's a while before we have a general election as ,at the minute, I would not have a chuffing clue who I would or could vote for! I reckon my only choice would be how to spoil my ballot.

The NHS will never improve untill it gets rid of the workshy and incompetant people it employs by the bucketload they are Nothing short of a massive drain on the service and wouldn't be able to hold a job down anywhere else as they would be found out in a heartbeat.

It's not just the NHS Alan. I recently went out with some people I went to school with, as soon as there was any mention of Pensions the two civil servants were on the defensive, instantly! And before anyone makes comment, I ve worked in both the private sector and the public sector. Some of those I worked with in the public sector are pretty much institutionalised, they couldn't survive in the private sector, the hard work would kill them!

What our Great Country has become in two photo's

Both Claim to be fighting facism i've got a very good idea which one is the truth.
The other is nothing short of embarrasing.

Alan wrote: The NHS will never improve untill it gets rid of the workshy and incompetant people it employs by the bucketload they are Nothing short of a massive drain on the service and wouldn't be able to hold a job down anywhere else as they would be found out in a heartbeat.

I once worked for the NHS.

Okay it was a YTS placement, I was like that vet from The League Of Gentlemen - Mr Chinnery or whatever.

I probably lasted a year.

.

Alan wrote: The NHS will never improve untill it gets rid of the workshy and incompetant people it employs by the bucketload they are Nothing short of a massive drain on the service and wouldn't be able to hold a job down anywhere else as they would be found out in a heartbeat.

We have the best, most efficient, health service in the world. Everywhere you go our health service is the envy of the world

www.bbc.com/news/health-40608253

So if you think our staff are lazy now imagine how bad they'll be when the Americans bring it down to their standard.

Don't do this Alan, for yourself. I lived in the US. For the 5 of us the cost of an everything on plan was $3000 a month which your employer contributes to. Anything from 1/3 to 2/3. Can't afford $1500 a month, start compromising. Get to 60 the cost rises, smoke and again.

If you buy a cheaper plan then there is an excess like car insurance and a cap. Average cost of cancer treatment is over $1m. I went into hospital, $11,000 a day. Thats just the money, the process is deeply unpleasant. You go to the doctor the first time and you see the accountant, not the doctor. Once they know you have good insurance you get cold called like double glazing salesmen but from hospitals. I had a skiing accident. Doc put me on medicine for blood clots. No 19th century warfarin for me. The insurance company called and said I had to go back and discuss with my doctor the medicine because it was too expensive. Refuse and they cancel the insurance.

If you are unemployed you will get free medical treatment. But you will struggle to find a doctor that takes your insurance. Why would he when he can earn more from private patients. 75 like Walt, you won't get insurance. 62, the day you retire is the day your insurance ends. Pre-existing conditions, not covered.
Things which are not illnesses are not covered as well so vaccinations, pregnancy. Average preganancy costs are over $50k

In the latest polls 88% of americans want universal (NHS style) health care


money.com/money/5640535/gallup-survey-am...g-medical-treatment/

One in four Americans chose not to receive treatment for a health issue over the last year due to its high cost, according to a new survey released by Gallup and West Health, a health care nonprofit.

Not only that, but 45% of Americans worry a major health issue could send them into bankruptcy and 19% have delayed purchasing medicine due to its cost.


'Without this I'd be dead': The Americans forced to wait outside for days to receive basic healthcare in pop-up hospitals

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/america...-brock-a8623091.html

The trouble is civil servants on the whole have done very well over the last decade-sure their salaries have been held back but their mortgage costs have collapsed and their pensions are still intact.In the enterprise sector,it’s been a bit more challenging for many self employed who fund their own pensions.

We all share the pain-not just civil servants

Marko, absolutely no-one on this board is suggesting we move to the US model of healthcare delivery or would even argue your points regarding it. Yes compared with many countries you will have visited like Georgia, Myanmar and Laos the NHS must seem like a 21st century miracle. The problems as Alan said include high levels of absenteeism, laziness and general inefficiency. As a basic service it more or less does its job. Some people are lucky to have fantastic treatment because they live in Gateshead or some other place where there is overprovision of resources. But like with comprehensive education the NHS is only excellent in certain places.

Don't think many will favour the American system Marco, it's the waste and burocracy that we only know a little bit about that is the problem. Reading about failed computer systems that cost the NHS millions and are obsolete before they are even used, throwing away wheelchairs, crutches, scissors after one use, doctors wives, etc in non jobs walking around with clipboards. How many NHS staff to change a light bulb? We know there's a lot of money wasted, but it's probably to big and controversial for any MP to sort out.

If we do a trade deal with the US, and they have access to our NHS how can it not be an American system? The Government will starve the NHS of funds so that the only way to go is insurance. If we do a trade deal with the US the NHS will be open to being sued so if they price cap they will dragged through the courts and forced to compensate US companies.

And the NHS isn't just envied in Laos. I do EU work with people of all nationalities including Brits who work in France and Spain.

I simply don't trust the current Government to do a trade deal. And when Farage earns 600k a year from Fox news that backs Trump is he really going to do better?

Everything is on the table, everything


When it comes to the foods we eat every day, the United States is arguably at the bottom of the pile in terms of food quality and safety. The unfortunate truth is that our increasingly tainted food supply is taking a major toll on public health.

Not to sound like an alarmist, but the modern American food supply truly is a minefield of toxic threats. We are routinely exposed to chemical additives and preservatives, many of which are banned in other countries. We face constant exposure to unlabeled genetically-modified organisms (GMOs), pesticide and herbicide residues, and perhaps the biggest threat of all that you’ve probably never even heard of − mycotoxins.

thetruthaboutcancer.com/america-worst-food-quality-safety/

Hope that when we leave the European community to take back control the people who so desperately wanted this and expect to trade with the USA realise they will be getting into bed with a greed driven nation who will screw us at every opportunity. Losing control to them will be a lot worse than dealing with Europe.

Marko, If you will not accept what the leader of the free world said (and I most certainly wouldn't). Then what about a bit of common sense, from a business perspective, who in there right minds would want to take over the NHS, a failing business, terrible Labour and Union relations, lost working days on a biblical scale (of the 31m working days lost in the UK per year 17m are in the NHS).

Who would want the work, hassel, contracts and grief to deal with that mess?


Plenty would want the supply contracts, they are like printing money due to terrible policies and management within the NHS.

The beast that is the NHS is unmanageable, any decent businessman would not last five minutes in the mire of employment rights, elf and safety and self defeating policies.

Perfectly normal behaviour by the Americans, they don't owe us anything. The problem is that the people who are supposed to be representing our interests will sell us down the line for personal gain, they are the ones we have to watch

Markovitch wrote: Perfectly normal behaviour by the Americans, they don't owe us anything. The problem is that the people who are supposed to be representing our interests will sell us down the line for personal gain, they are the ones we have to watch

If you want an eye opener, trawl through some of these account ledgers for Companies who supply Cumbria Trust, then do some homework on the suppliers, especially those with STAFF alongside the amount.

The NHS is a MESS............

www.ncuh.nhs.uk/about-us/trust-expenditure/index.aspx

If you want to reduce staff costs then train more, pretty basic supply and demand.


Osborne was warned that his decision would backfire but he insisted that scrapping long-established subsidies for nursing students would somehow increase numbers and pressed ahead regardless. Until 2016 anyone doing a nursing degree in England had their tuition fees paid in full and received means-tested maintenance grants of up to £3,191. In contrast, the number of student nurses has risen in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which retained those incentives.


The NHS could be short of almost 70,000 nurses within five years, according to a leaked copy of the government’s long-awaited plan to tackle the staffing crisis.

Blaming the government’s decision to abolish bursaries for nursing students, a draft of the NHS people plan says: “Our analysis shows a 40,000 (11%) shortfall [in the number of nurses needed in England] in 2018-19 which widens to 68,500 (16%) by 2023-24 without intervention, as demand for nurses grows faster than supply.”

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/26/...-bursaries-abolished

The majority of 18 to mid twenties I come across wouldn't know a job if it sat on their shoulders, in fact they're quite proud of the fact. They reckon people like you and I who've always worked are stupid, unless your one of them

Markovitch wrote:

Alan wrote: The NHS will never improve untill it gets rid of the workshy and incompetant people it employs by the bucketload they are Nothing short of a massive drain on the service and wouldn't be able to hold a job down anywhere else as they would be found out in a heartbeat.

We have the best, most efficient, health service in the world. Everywhere you go our health service is the envy of the world

www.bbc.com/news/health-40608253

Once again Markovitch, you’ve totally misinterpreted an article and posted a mis-truth. I don’t know if it’s continually done on purpose akin to a politician or whether you’re just not very good at reading articles.

Quite clearly, in big letters, it states we have the best SYSTEM, don’t confuse this with being the best and most efficient health service in the world. All it takes is a quick google to discover we are well done the list on that score. Go on, give it a go!