The Brexit Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: "Democracy is dead" only if parliament decide to revoke article 50 without putting it to the people first.

Having another referendum on the deal is actually the most democratic way of doing things, the only reason people say it's not is because they are afraid any potential outcome will be against their views.

Ok so what exactly do you think the outcome of that will be ?

Result stays the same and we.re two years down the line and no nearer

The result is overturned and do you really think the more extreme people who voted out will leave it at that ? Will we [censored] Soubury and the like will be toast within days and there will be anarchy like this country has never seen making a no deal exit look like it would have been everyone's preferred choice.

And then we come to what Happens when Junker and his mates give us their terms for us staying in because you can be sure they definitely wont include the payment discounts etc that we currently have Or is that ok with you ?

A referendum on the deal - ok but the time wasted would be a scandal. A referendum that included remaining in the EU WOULD end democracy in this country. If we voted to remain, why would we expect any more notice to be taken of it than the Government seem to be taking of the first vote? Complete waste of time.

If it were to happen, I’d be calling for General Elections every couple of years if I don’t like the outcome of any of them. The referendum was black and white and FINAL. Deal with it.

Ok NS, so we shouldn't do anything for fear that some people with extreme views will do something, isn't that terrorism ?

Griff- we do have general elections every few years.

How can asking the people their opinion on something, regardless of the outcome, be the end of democracy ? If the vote were reversed all it would show is that the current "will of the people" had changed.

Of course this is all moot because neither leader wants another vote and any general election would likely just see the conservatives win again unless JC decides to do a massive u-turn on his views as his tactic of just ignoring the question seems to have got to the end of its usefulness.

I vote if anyone does something terror-isty, we catch them and put them in prison. If they still want to be a terrorist, at least they'll know the consequences.

DeckchairBlue wrote: Ok NS, so we shouldn't do anything for fear that some people with extreme views will do something, isn't that terrorism ?

Griff- we do have general elections every few years.

How can asking the people their opinion on something, regardless of the outcome, be the end of democracy ? If the vote were reversed all it would show is that the current "will of the people" had changed.

Of course this is all moot because neither leader wants another vote and any general election would likely just see the conservatives win again unless JC decides to do a massive u-turn on his views as his tactic of just ignoring the question seems to have got to the end of its usefulness.

So, what if the will of the people has changed ?

Maybe in another 6/12/18/24 , months it changes again, then what ? another referendum ?

The referendum was close, therefore it was always going to be tough to deliver, that is why the most important votes usually have conditions for control. In this case it was first past the post, and leave won.

This does not suit many agendas in London, so we have an enemy within, spoiling and trying to derail anything and everything. Whatever the outcome (and at this stage who knows) democracy is the loser.

Fake news wins, because currently most people neither trust or believe the Politicians or Bankers. Unless we deliver the result of the referendum, post all this nonsense, they can say and print what they like, as we won't believe a word.

But you only describe these people as "an enemy within" because they don't support us leaving the EU.

So with how close the vote was, and if you believe decent polls it is now a majority, you are viewing all of those who don't support leaving the EU as an "enemy within". How can a country possibly operate when people have views like this ?

If there is another vote the country will eventually carry on regardless. It wont be the end of democracy at all. I vote leave and id be quite happy for May to admit shes made a total cockup that cant be sorted out and return the vote to the people. Why is everyone scared of another vote? I take it they must think remain would win this time round or theyd be saying bring it on.

And if remain won, would we be talking about another vote? Would we heck.

If it was as close as the 1st one you can guarantee it. Farage said that if the 1st one had ended up with a close remain win he would campaign for a 2nd vote.

As Dancing says the argument against 2nd vote just shows that those who support leave think that it will go against them, surely this means they are "denying the will of the people".

As much as I think leaving is going to be a huge mistake, I think we're now actually at the point where a second referendum would see Leave win again.

We're too far in, too much has gone on and people are sick to death of all of this. Those that sit just on the remain side of things will either not bother voting or they'll vote to leave so that we can finally put all of this to bed.

A second vote that ended up with a remain win would only be the start of it; whatever happens from this point on is going to be chaos, regardless of what direction we go in.

DeckchairBlue wrote: Ok NS, so we shouldn't do anything for fear that some people with extreme views will do something, isn't that terrorism ?

Griff- we do have general elections every few years.

How can asking the people their opinion on something, regardless of the outcome, be the end of democracy ? If the vote were reversed all it would show is that the current "will of the people" had changed.

Of course this is all moot because neither leader wants another vote and any general election would likely just see the conservatives win again unless JC decides to do a massive u-turn on his views as his tactic of just ignoring the question seems to have got to the end of its usefulness.

It’s very simple. We held a referendum, allowing the people to express their will, and promising that it would be implemented. We voted to leave the EU so that is what, democratically, must happen. Therefore any device prior to leaving such as further referendum including a ‘remain’ option would then subvert the will of the people and would be, de facto, undemocratic. Thatis why I said that it would be the end of democracy in this country.

The only way in which such a referendum could be democratic is if it is held AFTER we leave the EU and the will of the people has been fulfilled.

It’s all very simple really.

griff wrote: A referendum on the deal - ok but the time wasted would be a scandal. A referendum that included remaining in the EU WOULD end democracy in this country. If we voted to remain, why would we expect any more notice to be taken of it than the Government seem to be taking of the first vote? Complete waste of time.

If it were to happen, I’d be calling for General Elections every couple of years if I don’t like the outcome of any of them. The referendum was black and white and FINAL. Deal with it.

The problem with a one-off referendum is that it is the opposite of democratic. It simply reflects the opinion of the people who voted on that particular day. What type of democracy would it be if the country had to forever abide with a decision made in June 2016.

That is why we don't have a one-off General Election. 5 years later those still living get the chance to vote again and new voters get a chance to express their opinion. That is democracy.

DeckchairBlue wrote: But you only describe these people as "an enemy within" because they don't support us leaving the EU.

So with how close the vote was, and if you believe decent polls it is now a majority, you are viewing all of those who don't support leaving the EU as an "enemy within". How can a country possibly operate when people have views like this ?

What cheeses me (and most others) off, is the abject defiance of a democratic majority. We voted, we had a result, politicians should now do what we expect from them.

The dynamic is now political instead of being 100% focused on the right terms and conditions for our exit from the EU Federal state.

Those who cannot agree with the so called 'will of the people ' by continually (since day one) barking on about' we didn't know what we voted for ' in utter nonsense and rhetoric. The remoaners seem to think another referendum would give a different result, I don't think so. Given what we have learned about those who have made our lives as tough as possible, i would be sure more would vote leave.

As the deal that's on the table now looks like best/only deal we are going to get, would those who voted leave still vote that way had it been announced before the 1st referendum that this would be the terms we left under?

howoldboy wrote:

griff wrote: A referendum on the deal - ok but the time wasted would be a scandal. A referendum that included remaining in the EU WOULD end democracy in this country. If we voted to remain, why would we expect any more notice to be taken of it than the Government seem to be taking of the first vote? Complete waste of time.

If it were to happen, I’d be calling for General Elections every couple of years if I don’t like the outcome of any of them. The referendum was black and white and FINAL. Deal with it.

The problem with a one-off referendum is that it is the opposite of democratic. It simply reflects the opinion of the people who voted on that particular day. What type of democracy would it be if the country had to forever abide with a decision made in June 2016.

That is why we don't have a one-off General Election. 5 years later those still living get the chance to vote again and new voters get a chance to express their opinion. That is democracy.

Shame it didn't happen earlier then, I have waited all my adult life to reverse the result of the last referendum, when we supposedly joined a continental trading bloc, but thanks to the likes of Major and Blair and the various treaties they signed up to, wihout asking us, the British citizens if we wanted to, has now got us entrenched so deep in a political construct, that they have made it almost impossible to get out.

And to add insult to injury these two are the biggest champions of a second referendum. What kind of sheer hypocracy is that?

DeckchairBlue wrote: As the deal that's on the table now looks like best/only deal we are going to get, would those who voted leave still vote that way had it been announced before the 1st referendum that this would be the terms we left under?

Yes I would, because don’t forget what we were also told by the idiot May. “No deal is better than a bad deal”. This is a bad deal.

DeckchairBlue wrote: Ok NS, so we shouldn't do anything for fear that some people with extreme views will do something, isn't that terrorism ?

Griff- we do have general elections every few years.

How can asking the people their opinion on something, regardless of the outcome, be the end of democracy ? If the vote were reversed all it would show is that the current "will of the people" had changed.

Of course this is all moot because neither leader wants another vote and any general election would likely just see the conservatives win again unless JC decides to do a massive u-turn on his views as his tactic of just ignoring the question seems to have got to the end of its usefulness.

Yes its the way it's going street politicians like Owen Jones and Tommy Robinson are the only way forward politically diametrically opposed but supporting the same way forward

And yes the country should be ruled by whoever can put the biggest baddest boys on the streets its the best opportunity we've had for ages to get rid of the like of May and Corbyn

"Yes the country should be ruled by whoever can put the biggest baddest boys on the streets".

Another memorable quote there NS.

Looks like Russia will win in the end then.

not all brexiteers were racist but all racists were brexiteers.

I am always careful what company i keep.

currock blue wrote: not all brexiteers were racist but all racists were brexiteers.

I am always careful what company i keep.

Nothing to do with Racism its to do with Finance. History and Geography and people who rightly own something recovering it from people who don't.

A bit like the Elgin Marbles?

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Ok NS, so we shouldn't do anything for fear that some people with extreme views will do something, isn't that terrorism ?

Griff- we do have general elections every few years.

How can asking the people their opinion on something, regardless of the outcome, be the end of democracy ? If the vote were reversed all it would show is that the current "will of the people" had changed.

Of course this is all moot because neither leader wants another vote and any general election would likely just see the conservatives win again unless JC decides to do a massive u-turn on his views as his tactic of just ignoring the question seems to have got to the end of its usefulness.

Yes its the way it's going street politicians like Owen Jones and Tommy Robinson are the only way forward politically diametrically opposed but supporting the same way forward

And yes the country should be ruled by whoever can put the biggest baddest boys on the streets its the best opportunity we've had for ages to get rid of the like of May and Corbyn

Straight from the pages of Mein Kampf

DeckchairBlue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Ok NS, so we shouldn't do anything for fear that some people with extreme views will do something, isn't that terrorism ?

Griff- we do have general elections every few years.

How can asking the people their opinion on something, regardless of the outcome, be the end of democracy ? If the vote were reversed all it would show is that the current "will of the people" had changed.

Of course this is all moot because neither leader wants another vote and any general election would likely just see the conservatives win again unless JC decides to do a massive u-turn on his views as his tactic of just ignoring the question seems to have got to the end of its usefulness.

Yes its the way it's going street politicians like Owen Jones and Tommy Robinson are the only way forward politically diametrically opposed but supporting the same way forward

And yes the country should be ruled by whoever can put the biggest baddest boys on the streets its the best opportunity we've had for ages to get rid of the like of May and Corbyn

Straight from the pages of Mein Kampf

You must be reading a different version. No mention of Mother Terressa or Corbyn in mine.

Deckchairblue sounds like he has absorbed everything that the BBC have pumped him full of.

No opinion of his own, apart from what they have told him to say.

We live in a sad nation where people can still be brainwashed by the media.

munchymagic wrote: Deckchairblue sounds like he has absorbed everything that the BBC have pumped him full of.

No opinion of his own, apart from what they have told him to say.

We live in a sad nation where people can still be brainwashed by the media.

I think you.ll find some of it will have been his own doing with his famous Google and Wiki searches and I understand he did get Alexa but hes given up on her now coz he couldn't win the arguments with her when she told him what he didn't want to hear.

Last week, for humour, Have I got News for you featured a clip of Michael Gove being accosted by a man in a Santa suit blowing a whistle in his ear, before which, there was some ‘funny comment.’ Anna Soubry gets accosted and the hypocritical outrage that followed was sickening.
The news crews are also moving off College Green, because of this, despite the past two years of having Remoaners shouting and braying in the background of every outside broadcast.

High Street wrote: Last week, for humour, Have I got News for you featured a clip of Michael Gove being accosted by a man in a Santa suit blowing a whistle in his ear, before which, there was some ‘funny comment.’ Anna Soubry gets accosted and the hypocritical outrage that followed was sickening.
The news crews are also moving off College Green, because of this, despite the past two years of having Remoaners shouting and braying in the background of every outside broadcast.

The woman who was on Question time last night had her number and is suggesting it was all a setup and that she'd done it 3 times before without getting the coverage she was after so this time the media were well and truly tipped off

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

High Street wrote: Last week, for humour, Have I got News for you featured a clip of Michael Gove being accosted by a man in a Santa suit blowing a whistle in his ear, before which, there was some ‘funny comment.’ Anna Soubry gets accosted and the hypocritical outrage that followed was sickening.
The news crews are also moving off College Green, because of this, despite the past two years of having Remoaners shouting and braying in the background of every outside broadcast.

The woman who was on Question time last night had her number and is suggesting it was all a setup and that she'd done it 3 times before without getting the coverage she was after so this time the media were well and truly tipped off

I like my conspiracies NS not doubting you.

I think the whole things a set up, establishment organised so we will stay in. Mays deal fails, general election, labour majority with SNP, “people’s vote” with remain as an option and leave vote broken in two, remain wins and we stay in EU with decision made the next day.

The Daily Express also loved that CCU.

Once a Conservative always a Conservative?

Mullen103 wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

High Street wrote: Last week, for humour, Have I got News for you featured a clip of Michael Gove being accosted by a man in a Santa suit blowing a whistle in his ear, before which, there was some ‘funny comment.’ Anna Soubry gets accosted and the hypocritical outrage that followed was sickening.
The news crews are also moving off College Green, because of this, despite the past two years of having Remoaners shouting and braying in the background of every outside broadcast.

The woman who was on Question time last night had her number and is suggesting it was all a setup and that she'd done it 3 times before without getting the coverage she was after so this time the media were well and truly tipped off

I like my conspiracies NS not doubting you.

I think the whole things a set up, establishment organised so we will stay in. Mays deal fails, general election, labour majority with SNP, “people’s vote” with remain as an option and leave vote broken in two, remain wins and we stay in EU with decision made the next day.

Of course, its a setup but what the haven't factored into it is how those of us who voted for the most extreme version of Brexit will react to the sellout. Well i.ll tell you we.ll take to the streets in numbers with the BNP and the Football lads right at the front then we.ll find out just how hard Corbyn and afids arent Maybe they should look at just how many followers Tommy Robinson has before they think about taking us on because were quite capable of making the events in Paris look like a picnic in the park.

"We'll take to the streets in numbers with the BNP and the Football lads right at the front then we'll find out just how hard Corbyn and afids arent Maybe they should look at just how many followers Tommy Robinson has before they think about taking us on because were quite capable of making the events in Paris look like a picnic in the park."

Remind me to vote Brexit next time.

munchymagic wrote: Deckchairblue sounds like he has absorbed everything that the BBC have pumped him full of.

No opinion of his own, apart from what they have told him to say.

We live in a sad nation where people can still be brainwashed by the media.

So because I don't believe yours and Mullen's crackpot conspiracies or subscribe to Barry's extremist views I must have been brainwashed by the liberal media? Righto

DeckchairBlue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Deckchairblue sounds like he has absorbed everything that the BBC have pumped him full of.

No opinion of his own, apart from what they have told him to say.

We live in a sad nation where people can still be brainwashed by the media.

So because I don't believe yours and Mullen's crackpot conspiracies or subscribe to Barry's extremist views I must have been brainwashed by the liberal media? Righto

Proves that you are stuck in your ways and not prepared to take in any views that are differ from your own viewpoint.

Nourthersoul and the brown shirts (little historical reference in there for you)

Happyblue wrote: Nourthersoul and the brown shirts (little historical reference in there for you)

Like your 'brown pants' Happy?

With a white crack-line of course.

munchymagic wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Deckchairblue sounds like he has absorbed everything that the BBC have pumped him full of.

No opinion of his own, apart from what they have told him to say.

We live in a sad nation where people can still be brainwashed by the media.

So because I don't believe yours and Mullen's crackpot conspiracies or subscribe to Barry's extremist views I must have been brainwashed by the liberal media? Righto

Proves that you are stuck in your ways and not prepared to take in any views that are differ from your own viewpoint.

The irony from you is adapt.

Happyblue wrote: Nourthersoul and the brown shirts (little historical reference in there for you)

Just for clarification, i.ve never owned or indeed worn any brown shirts in my life. Really not my colour

Both the WW2 German uniforms that I own are a very nice shade of gray.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Nourthersoul and the brown shirts (little historical reference in there for you)

Just for clarification, i.ve never owned or indeed worn any brown shirts in my life. Really not my colour

Both the WW2 German uniforms that I own are a very nice shade of gray.

Can you still get any of those 'two world wars and one world cup' trackie tops pal as mine have become a bit worn.

Think that they were the Daniel Lei ones.

"And yes the country should be ruled by whoever can put the biggest baddest boys on the streets its the best opportunity we've had for ages to get rid of the like of May and Corbyn"

I reckon the Queen will rule then, as her army can mow down any number of angry baconfaces

orfc wrote: "And yes the country should be ruled by whoever can put the biggest baddest boys on the streets its the best opportunity we've had for ages to get rid of the like of May and Corbyn"

I reckon the Queen will rule then, as her army can mow down any number of angry baconfaces

Wont happen most of the squaddies are members of organisations well to the right of the BNP Dont you read the papers.

"Most of the squaddies are members of organisations well to the right of the BNP".

Next time Vote Brexit.

You'll be with NS, the squaddies and the football lads alliance.

munchymagic wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Deckchairblue sounds like he has absorbed everything that the BBC have pumped him full of.

No opinion of his own, apart from what they have told him to say.

We live in a sad nation where people can still be brainwashed by the media.

So because I don't believe yours and Mullen's crackpot conspiracies or subscribe to Barry's extremist views I must have been brainwashed by the liberal media? Righto

Proves that you are stuck in your ways and not prepared to take in any views that are differ from your own viewpoint.

Aye alright then. I usually view yours and Barry's opinions as comedy rather than anything yo actually take in .

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
those of us who voted for the most extreme version of Brexit

You must have had a different ballot paper to me then cos mine didn't say anything about the version of Brexit that would be delivered.

Just get Noel Edmunds, 22 boxes, 11 remainers and 11 leavers and go for the result of the last box. It would replace the idea of a second referendum, at a bit of levity to the situation and make people a few Bob in the process.
Deal or no deal at its finest. Imagine the viewing figures.
Noel would have to pull out one flowery shirt for that episode!

Good idea, but remainders wouldn't accept it if they lost. We'd have to play again and again till they won.

The really serious situation would be if for any reason we remain we would be screwed on everything by EU as a punishment and example to others.
The other real concern is we would never again be able to leave.This is the one and only chance ever.To remain we would be forced into the Euro and UK would be finished forever as a sovereign nation .We would become part of a federal state with our military being part of a new EU defence system totally controlled from Brussels.
Has remainers thought about these things at all.Sadly it seems not.

None of that would happen though would it Shaldon.

To remain all that happens is we revoke article 50.

We then keep our current membership terms with the EU, which includes our absolute veto, meaning we can pick and choose what we want to do.

It’s stunning how many staunch brexiteers still don’t have the first clue as to what they voted for. At least our passports will be blue :eyeroll: (They could be anyway)
Staunch Brexiteer here - how dare you suggest I didn't know what I voted for!
I didn't know what I voted for in 1975 when we were asked if we wanted to continue to trade within the EEC countries. I thought I was voting for a trading arrangement but ended up being dictated to by a bunch of booze soaked un-elected freeloaders. (Can we have that referendum again?) :another eyeroll:
I know exactly what I voted for this time, I didn't for one minute believe anything spouted by either side of the Brexit campaign, I made my own mind up based on years of deceit, lies and pumping my tax into a broken model, supporting lame duck other economies which will all go tits up when the Euro eventually falls of the cliff. Please don't insult me with horseshit like that. The one good thing to come out of this absolute dogs dinner is that it has finally hit home to some of the younger generation (I won't tar them all with the same brush) that voting matters and sitting on your arse letting everyone else take care of it gets you to where we are - please don't blame me.