Bury's new financial trouble?

There is no evidence anywhere that they breached the ffp rules. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it untrue.

The minister of sport thinks the efl should continue their dialogue with Bury FC and give the club the time it needs. I agree. A postman doesn't. I'll stick with the people who know what they are talking about

Ha. That’s the funniest thing you’ve ever posted.

Let’s just suppose they did breach the rules-I suspect they did by overpaying players until they ran out of cash.Do you not agree that this creates an unfair competitive advantage?The precedent is there with Rangers and their infamous tax case, which they lost-now widely regarded as the reason for their success at the time because none of the core players paid any tax.

We will find out soon enough but it’s now nearly September and they haven’t kicked a ball-that is ridiculous.

Likewise the SFA who sat by and watched sectarian singing remaining the norm-I had to resign from Motherwell because I wrote an article in the Glasgow Herald calling them out.I was asked to resign as you don’t upset the apple cart in Scottish football by calling some quarters of the Old Firm racists, bigots and destroying the competitive game by working together to maintain their stranglehold over the game.

I have no confidence in football administrators in the lower leagues.Populated by people clambering for positions of authority like a golf club when the reality is they have few business skills to suit the job.For evidence, look no further than the SFA and their motley crew

Question for you Laffy. When Rangers were demoted and the clubs voted to get rid of the 11 - 1 voting system why do you think the vote was still 10 - 2 ? Surely that was the time for the rest of the clubs to take charge of the agenda. I’m not sure if the 11 -1 is still in force now btw.

If they refused to sanction the takeover Dale would have pulled out, Gigg Lane would have been taken as part of the Day bankruptcy in December 18 and Bury would have disappeared. If they give these potential new owners 3, even 6 months, the sale can go through and Bury will be back in division 4 next season as a normal functioning league club. That is the purpose of the EFL, to serve the member clubs.

No one has presented any evidence that Bury breached any FFP rules so we can't punish the club because it looks wrong. Even if they could the punishment is a fine! Rather pointless.

As far as the future goes I hope the takeover goes through for them but personally I wouldn't touch them, you would have to be mad to risk the skeletons in that cupboard. If the FL are culpable of anything it will come out because they will lose a legal case. Having said that being caught stealing didn't diminish Farage's standing so maybe that won't count for anything either

Edited to say, yes, if they breached the rules they have got a competitive advantage.

Well I was involved in the 2002 walk out to change the 11/1 vote to I think an aspirational 8/4.We did get a fairer share of TV money but when you consider one EPL game is worth more than the entire season TV rights, there is a bigger problem.We spent months talking about TV money but I pointed out that the real challenge was the £200m of debt that they were carrying with the Bank of Scotland who totally lost the plot.

Not sure what happened after the 2012 fallout but that was when I wrote my piece in the Herald-then got a call from the Board to thank me for my resignation!Was glad to leave.

Scottish football is pretty rotten-Old Firm, sectarianism, land locked, poor administration-it’s not got a lot going for it.The Old Firm would move south in a flash but I was told the Met said they didn’t want drunken Scots in the capital 20 times a year-think Manchester and the Rangers final a few years ago.

Markovitch wrote: There is no evidence anywhere that they breached the ffp rules. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it untrue.

The minister of sport thinks the efl should continue their dialogue with Bury FC and give the club the time it needs. I agree. A postman doesn't. I'll stick with the people who know what they are talking about

A Tory Brexiteer who’s a close ally of Boris Johnson, hahahaha you’re one mixed up bloke!

Laffy wrote: Let’s just suppose they did breach the rules-I suspect they did by overpaying players until they ran out of cash.Do you not agree that this creates an unfair competitive advantage?The precedent is there with Rangers and their infamous tax case, which they lost-now widely regarded as the reason for their success at the time because none of the core players paid any tax.

We will find out soon enough but it’s now nearly September and they haven’t kicked a ball-that is ridiculous.

Likewise the SFA who sat by and watched sectarian singing remaining the norm-I had to resign from Motherwell because I wrote an article in the Glasgow Herald calling them out.I was asked to resign as you don’t upset the apple cart in Scottish football by calling some quarters of the Old Firm racists, bigots and destroying the competitive game by working together to maintain their stranglehold over the game.

I have no confidence in football administrators in the lower leagues.Populated by people clambering for positions of authority like a golf club when the reality is they have few business skills to suit the job.For evidence, look no further than the SFA and their motley crew

But according to Markovitch these people work for nothing out the goodness of their own hearts, our very own John Nixon being a prime example. Absolute pillar of the community who reluctantly administrates for the EFL because nobody else will! Similar to his role as ‘reluctant custodian’ down at Brunton Park.

Markovitch wrote: If they refused to sanction the takeover Dale would have pulled out, Gigg Lane would have been taken as part of the Day bankruptcy in December 18 and Bury would have disappeared. If they give these potential new owners 3, even 6 months, the sale can go through and Bury will be back in division 4 next season as a normal functioning league club. That is the purpose of the EFL, to serve the member clubs.

No one has presented any evidence that Bury breached any FFP rules so we can't punish the club because it looks wrong. Even if they could the punishment is a fine! Rather pointless.

As far as the future goes I hope the takeover goes through for them but personally I wouldn't touch them, you would have to be mad to risk the skeletons in that cupboard. If the FL are culpable of anything it will come out because they will lose a legal case. Having said that being caught stealing didn't diminish Farage's standing so maybe that won't count for anything either

Edited to say, yes, if they breached the rules they have got a competitive advantage.

Crikey me, you’re absolutely bonkers! You want to give them up to 6 months to sort a sale out? The credibility of the competition is already borderline the fact they haven’t played yet this season, now you want to virtually write the full season of and just let them start again a league below next season like nothing’s happened?

I’ve already explained to you about the punishments for breaking FFP rules (even though you initially maintained the EFL has no jurisdiction). One option is a fine but others are transfer embargos, points deductions, etc. These should have been implemented last season when the cheating took place, sanctioning them now is a bit like closing the stable door once the horse has bolted. They’ve acted far too late in the day, ineptitude of the highest order.

As long as you think they’re doing a grand job though, that’s the main thing!

I never claimed that ffp doesn't exist. I explained to you that they have that right because the members gave it to them. As with all things they are guided by their members.
Despite you never posting without going on about it you still haven't provided any evidence they breached the ffp rules. No crime no punishment.
The wages weren't paid in march. How many players have they signed since then?
Points deductions are for specific breaches of rules such the appointment of a receiver, administrator. When was the liquidator appointed?
Why would you think 6 months is a long time? You won't listen to me so ask laffy.
You argued the fl has no credibility so now arguing they have lost credibility is a bit empty.

1 month, 6 month's, 10 months they are not playing games. If they had shut them immediately they wouldn't be playing games. There is zero difference.

Do Bury actually have a squad or did they all bugger off once not getting paid?

I am guessing that they will field mainly a youth team or the likes if they get the chance to play, a September start would put them well back as well fitness wise unless they have been playing shedloads of bounce games.

Suppose this will not bother them if they are allowed to exist and still be a league club next season.

I am with you on that Munchy, how these can these clubs think they can raise a playing squad? Bolton have already missed a cup game because their young players cannot be expected to play two matches a week and although I am unaware of what playing staff Bury have they are already 5 games behind. why should they be given any extension to the transfer window, bearing in mind some clubs would then have the advantage of playing Bolton with a depleted squad. and Bury the potential advantage over Bolton in as much as they could have a full squad for 46 league games?

Surely it would have ben better to do it the Bolton way and try to play a few games with youth and a depleted squad as it shows that there is life still left in the club and you are making a fist of it to stay alive.

Cancelling every single game and the league will just lose patience with you and kick you out far sooner.

franksidebottom wrote:

Laffy wrote: Let’s just suppose they did breach the rules-I suspect they did by overpaying players until they ran out of cash.Do you not agree that this creates an unfair competitive advantage?The precedent is there with Rangers and their infamous tax case, which they lost-now widely regarded as the reason for their success at the time because none of the core players paid any tax.

We will find out soon enough but it’s now nearly September and they haven’t kicked a ball-that is ridiculous.

Likewise the SFA who sat by and watched sectarian singing remaining the norm-I had to resign from Motherwell because I wrote an article in the Glasgow Herald calling them out.I was asked to resign as you don’t upset the apple cart in Scottish football by calling some quarters of the Old Firm racists, bigots and destroying the competitive game by working together to maintain their stranglehold over the game.

I have no confidence in football administrators in the lower leagues.Populated by people clambering for positions of authority like a golf club when the reality is they have few business skills to suit the job.For evidence, look no further than the SFA and their motley crew

But according to Markovitch these people work for nothing out the goodness of their own hearts, our very own John Nixon being a prime example. Absolute pillar of the community who reluctantly administrates for the EFL because nobody else will! Similar to his role as ‘reluctant custodian’ down at Brunton Park.

I don't work for the FA for free Frank. Nor do the professional administrators making the decisions on takeovers. Imagine being told, make a decision on the Bury takeover. But if you decide not to accept, a club with a 100-year history will disappear in a month and a hundred people will be made redundant, just before Christmas.


Wee bit sad as well when a troll realises they have been talking shite, so they try to be snide. Let yourself down with that post Frank, very disappointing.

Markovitch wrote: I never claimed that ffp doesn't exist. I explained to you that they have that right because the members gave it to them. As with all things they are guided by their members.
Despite you never posting without going on about it you still haven't provided any evidence they breached the ffp rules. No crime no punishment.
The wages weren't paid in march. How many players have they signed since then?
Points deductions are for specific breaches of rules such the appointment of a receiver, administrator. When was the liquidator appointed?
Why would you think 6 months is a long time? You won't listen to me so ask laffy.
You argued the fl has no credibility so now arguing they have lost credibility is a bit empty.

1 month, 6 month's, 10 months they are not playing games. If they had shut them immediately they wouldn't be playing games. There is zero difference.

I didn’t say that you did claim FFP doesn’t exist, why make that up? I said you stated that the EFL have no jurisdiction over how a football club run their business, I quote you from post #177 “The FL can't but in and tell them how to run their business” (is but in a professional term by the way?!!).

They blatantly can “but in” and tell them, they can tell them how much money they’re allowed to spend, it’s called FFP. I really don’t care who voted on this or gave them the mandate to use it, that’s irrelevant, the fact remains the EFL can tell football clubs how to run their business and should have “but in” at Bury a long time ago and perhaps this ridiculous situation wouldn’t have materialised.

Whilst we’re on the subject of making things up, here’s another one of your quotes “Points deductions are for specific breaches of rules such the appointment of a receiver, administrator“. Now come on, admit it, you honestly did just pluck that one out the clouds didn’t you? Google ‘EFL punishments for breaching FFP’ and there’s any amount of articles talking about transfer embargo’s related to breaching FFP by Birmingham, Blackburn, Charlton, etc, etc. Then there’s the links to Birmingham’s 9 point deduction last season for breaching spending limits. No mention of administration or receivers.

I think your done with this subject now Markovitch, I certainly am, you’ve started making things up again so I’m out. Until the next time you post something silly on here and I’m forced to pull you up, adios.

So Franks pulled out 15 minutes before the deadline. Hopefully that means the Marko account will go into liquidation with immediate effect

How will I live without Marko tugging at my trouser leg?

Back to those FFP rules that you claim a club not paying its players have breached. Determined to get them in aren't you?


At least you now seem to have accepted that the transfer embargo and the points deduction are in place so only 30 posts to get that through to you. We can draw a line under those I hope.

You have also stopped mentioning that the club should have been closed down in December So can I take it you have accepted giving them more time was the right thing to do to try to save the jobs of people who work at the club? Or are you still advocating the destruction of a 135-year-old football club with no stay of execution? Sadly looks like they will go under anyway so it didn't do them much good.

After a day therefore of repeatedly refuting everything you were told you have taken on board 3 of the 4 things you were complaining about. That's pretty good.

So just those pesky FFP rules. Have you found any evidence that they breached them yet? Or are you still claiming that as a fact? Keep hunting for them. It would be good if you could post a fact. They were paying (at least at some point) Nicky Adams £35k a month so it wouldn't be surprising if you found something. Keep going, giving up when 3 of your points have been disproved smacks of laziness, lets go for the clean sweep.

I await your reply with my usual amazed curiosity

Marko-I’m still waiting for your excuses having proven your persistent ranting about zero hours contracts is total baloney.

Take a chill pill-it’s Bury, not Carlisle

I don't even remember what the question was.
A lot of good people at the FA trying to do their best. Absolutely not perfect and some salary perks for the full-timers can be beyond the pale.
However, when some charlatan comes into a club and tries to flog it off for flats everyone immediately blames the FA. They have no control over company law, no control over planning regulations and to the most degree no control over takeovers. Having said that no one wants to talk about the money they put into the army to help soldiers with PTSD, organising training for patients suffering from depression or rehabilitating after operations, building pitches in deprived areas. We just get people like Frank who know nothing abut the functioning or working of the organisation claiming the FA is inept because he has read 1 newspaper article, and the FA has done everything they can to keep the club alive. Sadly it appears to be in vain

Markovitch wrote: Back to those FFP rules that you claim a club not paying its players have breached. Determined to get them in aren't you?


At least you now seem to have accepted that the transfer embargo and the points deduction are in place so only 30 posts to get that through to you. We can draw a line under those I hope.

You have also stopped mentioning that the club should have been closed down in December So can I take it you have accepted giving them more time was the right thing to do to try to save the jobs of people who work at the club? Or are you still advocating the destruction of a 135-year-old football club with no stay of execution? Sadly looks like they will go under anyway so it didn't do them much good.

After a day therefore of repeatedly refuting everything you were told you have taken on board 3 of the 4 things you were complaining about. That's pretty good.

So just those pesky FFP rules. Have you found any evidence that they breached them yet? Or are you still claiming that as a fact? Keep hunting for them. It would be good if you could post a fact. They were paying (at least at some point) Nicky Adams £35k a month so it wouldn't be surprising if you found something. Keep going, giving up when 3 of your points have been disproved smacks of laziness, lets go for the clean sweep.

I await your reply with my usual amazed curiosity

Words fail me you deluded crackpot. You need help.

The FA and the EFL are two different organisations ya wally.

Dancingbear wrote: So Franks pulled out 15 minutes before the deadline. Hopefully that means the Marko account will go into liquidation with immediate effect

If only mate!

Sorry I was a bit held up. I had to go and collect a parcel, but I was behind Alan Turing, Christian Barnard and Bill Gates who were all getting advice from the staff. You know how it is. You're waiting for an amazon delivery, but they are advising some internationally renowned body how not to be inept. A gift and a curse.
Saw there was something for Sherlock Holmes so that'll be tomorrow gone as well

Did anyone really think that the complex finances of a football club could be sorted out over the weekend?

Oh yeah silly me, I forgot, this board thinks the same can be done for an entire country in a month

Anyways, shoehorn mode off, have the efl said anything, their absolutely latest deadliest and line-iest deadline was 2 hours ago and they've said nowt?

I do feel somewhat sorry for the fans of Bury, but this isn't the first time, is it? Throwing the kitchen sink at promotion last season, then panicking at not been able to find a few coppers this season is their own fault... Rotherham and Bury... Been taking the p*ss for years. The League needs to set a precedent... The National League does it... Ditto Bolton, unfortunately. Why should the other 90 clubs play the game and have to face the consequences of a poorer league position? Rules are bloody rules. Bloody annoys me.

It's ridiculous if they don't get chucked out of the league but I would be totally in favour of trying to save the club and the footballing community being in favour of making it viable for them to continue as a club by given them a chance to continue at a decent level.
If they were lining up against Carlisle in League 2 next season and back to spending lots of money, that would seem unfair in the extreme.
It's not the fans fault but they need to be severely punished as a club, but supported to continue.
If Carlisle were in Conference North, it wouldn't be great but a million percent better than having no club at all.

I think we're making our way there now with the present management team!

Bury expelled, apparently... Expelled is such a harsh word.

They’ve gone I’m not that disappointed there will be a few more to follow too

Now Bury have been expelled can we get Tom Miller back? Worth a go surely.

Carlisle and Macclesfield thrashing it out at the bottom then

I bet loads of Conference teams wished that they had splashed out this season as currently there are three spots up for grabs and there might be a fourth.

The playoffs in the conference to get into the league could include the fourteenth placed club at this rate.

What a crying shame for the fans of Bury and those employed by them ....Imagine if it was us devastating

Zebby wrote: What a crying shame for the fans of Bury and those employed by them ....Imagine if it was us devastating

No chance of that pal as the three [censored] wont sell it!

munchymagic wrote: Carlisle and Macclesfield thrashing it out at the bottom then

I bet loads of Conference teams wished that they had splashed out this season as currently there are three spots up for grabs and there might be a fourth.

The playoffs in the conference to get into the league could include the fourteenth placed club at this rate.

Still only two teams coming up from the national league.

Only 3 teams relegated from league 1 & 4 promoted from league 2 gets league 1 back to 24 then only 1 relegated from league 2 & the 2 from the national league gets league 2 to 24. if Bolton folded then there would be no relegation from league 2 but still only 2 promoted from non-league.

Tonyhemmings wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Carlisle and Macclesfield thrashing it out at the bottom then

I bet loads of Conference teams wished that they had splashed out this season as currently there are three spots up for grabs and there might be a fourth.

The playoffs in the conference to get into the league could include the fourteenth placed club at this rate.

Still only two teams coming up from the national league.

Only 3 teams relegated from league 1 & 4 promoted from league 2 gets league 1 back to 24 then only 1 relegated from league 2 & the 2 from the national league gets league 2 to 24. if Bolton folded then there would be no relegation from league 2 but still only 2 promoted from non-league.

Cheers - read that on another thread but wasn't sure if it was the law.

The promotion/relegation scenario from league to Conference has still to be discussed/confirmed, but I hope Tonyhemmings is right.

Was going on what it says on the BBC website. Going on historical precedent it should be only 1 relegated, in 1992 we weren't relegated after Aldershot were expelled despite finishing bottom.

carlisleunited wrote: Now Bury have been expelled can we get Tom Miller back? Worth a go surely.

Was thinking about all our ex-es....Adam's jumped ship but Northampton are not much better off than CU, at least hes in a job unlike Miller but Pressley wont be interested. Isn't Simon Tracey on their payroll as well

Stewart Day the previous owner sounds a right chancer. His empire went tits up owing £27m (possibly £54m!)

Currently in Dubai apparently. -

www.burytimes.co.uk/news/17560478.former...der-owing-27million/

It's very sad for the supporters and the town but they should have been brought to bear long ago. They've been living beyond their means (cheating) for years and the EFL have done nowt about it.

What does this Dale character achieve with the club going into liquidation? Is he left with nothing?

CarlisleSaints wrote: What does this Dale character achieve with the club going into liquidation? Is he left with nothing?

Not sure, he seems a strange individual. Why did he take the club over if he had no chance of moving forward?

Somebody I was speaking to on Saturday who had been speaking to one of the directors said without EWM money we wouldn't have been able to convince the EFL we could go on and fulfil the fixtures. Not sure if that was at the start of last season or this season.

Petition for the Government to introduce an independent legislator for football clubs

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/268665

nobbyblue wrote: Stewart Day the previous owner sounds a right chancer. His empire went tits up owing £27m (possibly £54m!)

Currently in Dubai apparently. -

www.burytimes.co.uk/news/17560478.former...der-owing-27million/

Another one of Stewart Day's schemes is currently making headlines in Huddersfield...

www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshi...internet-no-16799351

nobbyblue wrote:

CarlisleSaints wrote: What does this Dale character achieve with the club going into liquidation? Is he left with nothing?

Not sure, he seems a strange individual. Why did he take the club over if he had no chance of moving forward?

Somebody I was speaking to on Saturday who had been speaking to one of the directors said without EWM money we wouldn't have been able to convince the EFL we could go on and fulfil the fixtures. Not sure if that was at the start of last season or this season.

Doesnt surprise me with Nixon & Patt involved, Both are useless. Nixon & his little perks from the FA.

At the trust agm with regards to EWM they said they were still trying to get them to say what their ongoing commitment was going to be.
But all the trust said for definate was that we would be alright for this season.
Given what's happened to Bury and what is happening to Bolton maybe EWM would now be willing to come forward and state exactly what their plans are for the club. Even if they said that they wouldn't put anything in past this season and use what is owed to them to force the owners to officially move towards selling before we end up like Bury.
The EFL also need to vet every owner of clubs in the lower leagues to make sure they are fit to be owners and that they stick to the rules.

Every club needs a Holdsworth to run them at a break even level. Should be mandatory and appointed by the league.