TOPIC: CUOSC Bid

From tonights Star

One businessman, meanwhile, has distanced himself from the local investment proposal.

Andy Bell, a United vice-president whose firm Bookies.com sponsors the club, said he was not part of the consortium, which is being fronted by Robin Brown and Graham Mossop.

Bell, who was involved in last year's Andrew Lapping-led investment bid, added on Twitter: “One has to wonder if those who were part of the latest offer actually have any cash? Lots of wannabe millionaires in the city!

1. Why do they have to be millionaires?
2. Mr Bell is a t*t.

It appears there are several things wrong with the latest offer.

1) Where is the Money ?
2) How are the Trust going to raise £500k (if Mileson and Courtenay had not fallen out the Trust would own next to nothing)
3) The fact that it is the Trust and it's History with the Club (re-branding or not) .

Why would any sensible businessman accept such an offer. Carlisle is littered with acrimony and personal feuds.

It will take a wealthy local businessman of high stature to unlock all this (like Fred Story) but ? Oh, yes, we fu..ed him off as well................

1) It's in a pot under my bed.

What do you mean 'where is the money'? Where do you want the money to be? The bid hasn't been accepted (yet).

I am more concerned about how CUOSC plan to raise half a million, I assume the plan is either buy a load to lotto tickets or rob a bank. Given they failed to raise a lot less than half a mill when they were originally formed (minus milesons cash) and have then failed to raise 60k in ten years to pay off norman steel I struggle to see how they could achieve this in a short time frame.

Personally I think the trust should start fund raising now and build up a sum of money which can either be invested or used as a rainy day fund to get the club out of shite.

This is something that CUOSC have looked into Lufbra, info will be provided on Friday when the question is asked.

cufcdeano wrote:
they have looked into a bank robbery or buying loads of lottery tickets

Lufbrablue wrote:
Both

cufcdeano wrote:
What about robbing lottery tickets? Wouldnt need another loan off Norman to buy them then.

Any money the trust is to raise will have to come from the members, from donations or some sort of sponsorship. Unless they plan on running events all over the place or something. I can't see any scenario in which the trust can possibly be successful in raising £500,000, it is utterly ridiculous of them to think they can.

I'm assuming the amount they raise is to go towards the purchase of newly issued shares to keep their holding similar to what it is. If that is the case then they are going to fall woefully short and are effectively going to allow their holding as a percentage to reduce in a similar way to what they were going to do under Andrew Lapping's proposal.

Deano, I know you're giving it a go personally mate, and I know there are a couple of others prepared to have a go too, but you're swimming against a massive tide of gross stupidity in my view. I'd love to see the trust doing something proactive, and leading the way at this club, but sadly under its current top leadership there is no chance.

What happened to the "Wall of 1,000"? As proven by the need to use Mileson, we supporters have limited £ and little interest.
Lufbrablue wrote:

image: www.redimps.co.uk/cms_images/lcfc-crest-...-1463425_613x460.png


PUBLISHED

15:00 22nd February 2016


Dear Shareholder(s),

Bob Dorrian has written to you giving you an update of the progress that has been made over the last 12 months in terms of re-structuring the Club’s facilities with the Co-operative Bank and he has also given you an update with regards to investment.

For the first time in a number of years, the Club can look forward to building a future and it is now in a position to make a serious attempt to regain its Football League status. Bob has explained that in order to do so then the Club needs the help of shareholders and supporters to add their financial support to the investment that has already come in to the Club.

One way you could help is by purchasing shares in the Club. It doesn’t matter how small or how large the amount is, every penny helps. As a shareholder and supporter of the Club, we are asking you to buy whatever number of shares you can afford. The shares cost 50p each and every penny raised will help us to strengthen the playing squad and give the Club a realistic chance of regaining Football League status.

An application form can be downloaded HERE. This is open to you and family* members. If you need more forms, simply make photocopies or contact the Club and ask for more. The forms are really simple to complete.

Remember, the shares cost 50p each so if you want to buy £100 worth then you need to enter ‘200’ in the box where it says ‘number of shares subscribed for @ 50p per share’ and then simply write ‘£100’ in the box where is says ‘value of shares’.

Any amount is welcome, there is no minimum or maximum amount. Just buy what you can afford.

Once completed, send the form to the address on the bottom of the form along with your cheque for the correct amount. Cheques should be made payable to Lincoln City Football Club.

Hopefully, with your support and the support of other supporters, we will soon be back in the Football League.

Up the Imps!

image: www.redimps.co.uk/cms_images/news/kevin-...g-web169-2251674.png
Kevin Cooke sig web

Kevin Cooke,
Director

Read more at www.redimps.co.uk/news/article/share-app...#CoSwt5YkSO5FO0yr.99

Fund raising options
1 - Get Jenkins to donate some of his produce and run a weekly Meat raffle
2 - Set up a footy predictor comp where you buy virtual credits, claim it is non profit when really it is just loss making,
3 - Naked CUOSC board Calendar 2017 (doubt it will get a film like calendar girls did) - bound to be a must for every xmas stocking
4 - Sell half and half scarves before each game, luckily with our boards lack of ambition most can be reused next season.
5 - Release a charity single

3 and 5 sound doable to me Lufbra, I'll get it added to the agenda for the next board meeting.

On a serious note though, £500,000 is extremely ambitious, I'm not denying that in any way. Consideration needs to be given for:
a) where this is going to come from? Just members, or smaller local business too for example?
b) limits on how much each member/business can donate?
c) what will you get for your donation?
d) what time frame? 1 year, 2 years, 5 years etc.
e) what happens if the 500k is not met - shares reduced as per the Lapping proposal?

Clarification is required, and will be given on Friday.

How about a sponsored whinge
This message board could raise millions

In my humble opinion and for what it's Carlisle United is a better feckin mystery than anything Agatha Christie ever wrote.....

That biggest problem is we need far more than £2 million , with this offer we would right back in the same situation in 5 years , we a screwed to be honest , we can't compete fincially, we can compete with training facilities. Also they stated they wanted to stay at Brunton park a run down stadium which generates terrible atmosphere even when full and finally it floods.

Deano it is preposterous over any time frame. Next season the trust's membership will be less than half what it is now, so members are out of the question, unless they're all prepared to put in £1,000 each. What local businesses are going to just give a load of cash to a discredited organisation? As for what people get for their donation, the trust has a track record, everyone knows what they're going to get, absolutely nowt. For all the big promises of change they made, what has actually happened? That's right, nowt. So what can we expect from them going forward? That's right, more of the same.

It won't work, they aren't trusted, they're not prepared to change. In many ways it is as much an old boys club as the football club.

Let me ask again, why have they still not got a seat on the Holding Company board? More to the point, why aren't they kicking up a great big public stink about it?

Trust, my arse.

Lancs blue wrote: Christ i would be in debt forever...

Sent from my GT-I8200N using Tapatalk

Happyblue wrote:
Let's just keep things as they are then eh, losing 500k+ per season, unless we get lucky again like this season. AJ won't put much more (if any) money into the club now.

In an ideal world, more than 2 mil would be great, but the most important thing in my opinion is running the club properly, with a professional Managing Director responsible for an Operational Board - reporting to the HC board.

cufcdeano wrote:
Yes, that sounds good. However with the trust wiped out? No power of veto? That is, I suppose, if the trust can't raise half a million.

From what little I have seen of this bid, I believe the horsemen have it right, this is not in the best interests of anybody, most especially the football club. This, bear in mind, is only from what I have seen, I don't have all of the specifics. But anything that relies on those people at the top of the trust to raise half a million quid has to be severely flawed.

Moorlad wrote:
Change has definitely occurred. Defined roles are in place, and work is beginning to happen in each area. CUOSC have reps present on match days assisting fans, and on Saturday gone in particular assisting with the ticket office. We were due to use the caravan located near the WRE/East Stand for match days, until the floods damaged it. Once replaced from the insurance, this will give us a focal point on match days.

Communication is far improved compared with 12 months ago. For starters, CUOSC are now sending out weekly emails, have programme space every home game, and have a column in the N&S; every week. It might not be perfect still, but I would be extremely surprised if you said the communication was as poor as it was 12 months ago.

The HC board position is vital, but at a time when CUOSC looking to negotiate a deal with AJ/JN, making a big song and dance about the HC position probably isn't going to help. If the takeover deal does get formally rejected then it's of great importance that CUOSC get that position on the HC board.

I've said before, there are quite a number of CUOSC board positions up for re-election in the Summer - what it needs is for people with the expertise, time and commitment to fill the roles. I will happy stand down if somebody more suitable for the role wants to take it on. Plenty of people are happy to criticise. Few are happy to help.

cufcdeano wrote:
And what happens if this bid is successful and we lose 500k next season ? But have nobody to cover it ?

Mate, cosmetic change has happened, and I'm pleased to see that you and a couple of other committed people have been able to manage that. But it is only cosmetic, the top players there are still the same, and nothing is happening.

The Holding Company board seat is vital now, not when the bid succeeds, or fails. There needs to be accountability now. The second largest shareholder in the organisation is being excluded from everything, this will continue as long as those two are the board. Those two will be the board as long as they want because that is what they want, and the second largest shareholder is not prepared to rock the boat. Deano you're being fed a line, those at the top of the trust are happy with their little positions of power, they're happy with the status quo. They have no need to put pressure on at all.

I must agree with Moorlad here. Everything's in this context is going nowhere fast

@Cayambe

Lincoln did their share issue, and attempted to put a Lancaster bomber mural on theor main stand that fans would pay to sponsor, because the COOP called in their loans. I don't think they sold many shares and the mural hasn't been done, so they ended up renegotiating their loans and a south African guy has invested £1m into them.

Moorlad wrote:
We'll see - I'll not sit back and accept 'no pressure' being applied if this bid is knocked back. I would probably agree that now is the time to start applying more pressure in this area too. I think there's probably many others on the CUOSC board who share my thoughts.

DeckchairBlue wrote:
What happens if (or more likely when) we lose 500k next season and JN refuses to cover it?

The Lincoln thing is from yesterday. I don't know the background.

Deano,
Still never seen an answer (or understood) why these rich businessmen need to make their offer through the Trust.
Makes no sense at all to me, and questions what resources they actually have.
They obviously want the protection/cover of the Trust for some reason, but Moorlad's quote sums it up quite well;
"It won't work, they aren't trusted, they're not prepared to change. In many ways it is as much an old boys club as the football club".

As a member of that board, how often do you speak to the other shareholders of the Holding Company from a business point of view? Is that left to particular people on the board of directors of the trust? If that is the case, how often do they speak to those two? What do they discuss? Or is there no real contact about the running of the Holding Company?

cufcdeano wrote:
Pretty sure AJ will cover it.

Cayambe wrote:
Aye they started it about a year ago, I got £20 worth just cos they are my local club and seemed a cool thing to have at the time.

I have only once met with AJ/JN, and that was back in October/November re: investment when they proposed the 150k of investment and CUOSC diluting their shares in the process. Other board members rarely speak with them, with the exception of Norman, but I'd say there's probably very little contact about the running of the HC. I would assume that's dealt with at HC board meetings, of which we're not of a part - but certainly should be.

DeckchairBlue wrote:
As a loan?

If the bid is successful, the idea is to stop the club losing 500k+ year on year. Continued investment is certainly important regardless of who owns the club, and CUOSC have to step up and raise funds as somebody mentioned earlier, even if it's just for a rainy day to get the club out of a mess.

The BIG sticking point in all these bids for me - From Lapping to CUOSC - is the bold assumption that after the initial injection of funds, repayment of debts and general tidying up, that the Club would simply appoint the relevant people to make CUFC run at a steady level with no losses.

I've said it numerous times, Football Clubs in general are far different from everyday businesses, and as such you can't expect to run them as such. There's simply too many variables!

Most Clubs are ran by owners who have to put cash in, our difference is AJ seems to expect it back! Anyone who thinks putting cash into a Club to get a return is cuckoo - Apart from a Man Utd/Real Madrid level where retail and sponsorship are astronomical, the rest have to sink or swim!

How many Clubs in the UK are run successfully by Supporters Trusts? It's simply not practical. I'm all for supporter representation, but the basic model that runs UK Clubs mean it's not realistic for a Trust to run a Club full time at a professional level IMO!

Another thing with the initial lump sum injection idea. Suppose the team goes on a bad run, sacks a manager, had to pay him off, stump up for a replacement etc. Crowds have dropped below the break even due to this. Where does the coin come from? Do you deduct from the annual budget, thus potentially weakening the team? Far too many improbables to consider!

Fact is, nearly every professional Club needs regular investment from owners and benefactors. It's just the way it is, and fanciful ideas regarding ownership models would likely lead to trouble in the long run...

Where is the taking on of loans sanctioned? Surely this is where a body with over 25% of the shares should have to approve such a decision. If sizeable investment is being turned away why would said loans be approved?

If these are holding company issues and CUOSC have no say in these things then they are not capable of doing what they exist for, to safeguard the future of the club.

What is the answer then CCU?

Where's our Billionaire that's going to get us out of trouble? AJ isn't going to live forever. There needs to be a succession plan - AJ/JN do not have one.

I don't disagree about the continued investment by the way. This is essential, as you say, very few (if any) clubs in England run at a profit.

cufcdeano wrote:
Is there an answer would be my question!

Yes we need succession, and we need a plan soon, but for me, I've not seen one that would keep the Club going sufficiently...

CCU wrote: I think this sums up my feelings on this issue. Sustainability is a pipe dream.

I think the idea in these offers of investment is that the shortfalls are potentially met by a pool of people (AL's consortium, local businesses people in the CUOSC case) rather than relying on Jenkins.

To be fair AJ has in the past written off large sums of debt owed to him by the club. Problem is that either he or his family appear to be unwilling to bankroll the club any further.

Deano, with regards to raising any new funds how do the Trust propose to resolve the issue of outstanding loans owed to Trust members? Surely these are just as much a block to investment via the trust as Jenkins's (and previously Fred's) loan is to the club.

.

Why are they a block to investment?

My understanding is some or all funds raised by the trust for investment purposes are used to pay off loan(s) to trust members.

As with potential business folk being reluctant to invest in cufc when their money would go to pay off Fred or AJ's loan I would suggest monies owed by the Trust to it's members might discourage supporters from contributing to its share fund.

I understand your point, thanks for clarifying. It's an important question, and one that should be raised and answered on Friday. I'll make a note myself.

Cheers Deano. Will you be reporting on whats discussed on Friday?

Turnbull wrote:
CUOSC have said the meeting will be relayed after for those who can't make it...

As CCU says, an email will go out shortly after Friday - not sure when as it won't be me sending it - with answers to all questions, whether they were asked on the night, or emailed in: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

As I've said before I've no intention of wasting my Friday night attending a meeting for something that hasn't happened and has less than a 1% chance of happening.

I've emailed some questions though just out of curiosity.

An e-mail? How very modern.

How about setting up a Periscope broadcast with the proviso that if you go to the meeting then you agree to be part of the filming/broadcast.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a club Carlisle's size can self sustain if it was in the right hands and was ran efficiently, certainly in league two anyway.

Out of interest, what were the profit/loss figures like during Fred Story's reign?