TOPIC: CUOSC Meeting Tonight - Fri 26 Feb

Just saw a tweet saying once you takeaway those involved, about 30 folk there with 'the same old faces'...

Edit - Jon Colman is live tweeting from the meeting.

Exciting stuff eh.. Any new crack then for us non twatter users...

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markredfox73 wrote:
twitter.com/joncolman

Seems a total waste of time going by those tweets.

I went. Not a total waste of time but nigh on. The crux of it is , as I understand, AJ and JN rejected the proposal because it doesn't demonstrate how his money will be repaid. Robin Brown explained that the £2m would not be used to pay back AJ and that AJ would have to be paid back via income/ money generated as a surplus in good times.

Therefore, what you have is a stalemate. Simples!!

There was a bloke sat next to Kate Rowley, I think it was her(I don't know her but think it was her), an everton fan he said, he seemed to have a big downer or grudge towards Mr Lapping and his alledged business practices. This was subsequently dismissd by Robin Brown. It seemed apparent to me that Kate Rowley still has a big issue with Big Fred too.

Done people were actually sticking up for AJ.

Poor turnout, but I think given that the deal is not looking like progressing any time soon, that was always likely to be the case.

That fella certainly wasn't impressed with Lapping was he.

cufcdeano wrote:
He certainly was not impressed! Tbh, I was unimpressed by him! He asked if the "billionnaire could be sent to Goodison".

Wtf is an.everton fan doing there...did nobody tell him to fk off ....

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It crossed my mind!!

Bruntonpasty wrote:
So the same kind of deal they had with Fred then ?

It is very disappointing that there are still some out there who cling to this notion that I have dodgy business practices and still a topic of conversation-this despite the fact I'm not involved in this project at all and I am anauthorised person under the Financial Conduct Authority.I wonder if the 'Everton fan' has actually tried to do something to help the Club other than chuck mud and ride on the shirt tails of others with a genuine desire to assist.

Also reading the JC tweets,it looks like much of what AJ said in his programme was taken apart by simply laying out the facts.A common theme or well trodden path set by David Allen and myself.

Enjoy the game all

Laffy- His comments were, I felt, not seen as valid or given any credibility by the rest of those in attendance. I suspect he would belong to the group of dissenters from your previuos meeting. Mr Brown certainly made his views on your business practices and ability perfectly clear and they were totally contrary to those of the Everton fan!

I went to this meeting to find out what I could about this deal and came to a few conclusions. In your plan Laffy, Mr Jenkins would have some of his debt converted into new shares, It would appear to me that , although Robin Brown did mention "conversion", I think this is the main stumbling block in both plans. To me it seems apparent that Mr Jenkins does not want conversion, he wants his money back, plain and simple. In this situation, there is a stalemate! I can't honestly see any investor walking into a debt laden balance sheet and simply forking out the cash to clear it and then have to inject cash to allow it to run. I actually don't think a lot of people understand this still.

Excellent piece in today's paper by JC.

Bruntonpasty wrote:
Absolutely spot on...well a mystery billionaire with endless amounts of cash might be willing to pay the 1.6mil of debts and then invest further in the club. That's never going to happen though, and the sooner AJ/JN confirm that the 'billionaire interest' is dead, the better. Supposedly the line was going to be drawn at the end of January, but still hasn't been. Yet more, miscommunication shall we say, from those in charge.

CUOSC need to crack on and get funds raised - 500k is ambitious, but my no means impossible. Robin Brown confirmed he had over 1 million confirmed last night, with a further possible 500k-600k depending on how things develop. He is in no doubt, with further conversations that can still be had, that he will raise the full 1.5mil, plus more if required, should CUOSC not raise the full 500k. Andrew Jenkins previously told CUOSC that for every £1 of investment raised, he would be prepared to write off £1 of debt - his programme notes last weekend seemed to contradict that. There are ways and means of repaying some of the debt though. There must be cash in the club at present, given the recent cup runs/player sales. This is an ideal opportunity for AJ to get some of his debt repaid before the Summer when there will be a period of 2-3 months with very little income at all, and he will no doubt either have to use some of that cash, or put more into the club.

Let's be clear here, There is NO live billionaire and NEVER was! As I've said, MrJenkins wants his coin back , plain and simple. The Lapping Plan didn't pay him out and nor does this one. They invent a billionaire to scupper one deal, persist in the notion that the billionaire is still "alive" and question how John Nixon gets his £20k back to scupper/stall the other.

So, as alluded to by one of the panel last night, what would happen if anything happened to Andrew Jenkins? If the stalemate continues until that point (assuming he's not immortal) what then?

I was also amused by the notion some have on the value of the flood plain that is BP! Upwards of £3M? really? for what purpose?

Apparently it was a retired vicar-not someone used to earning a living by their own means,rather someone who believes it's in his gift to tell us how to lead our own lives.

Just read the JC article which is spot on.We have no unequivocal leader-rather we now have a vaccum which any business would struggle with.Result is confusion and drift in all businesses without a leader.

It's particularly poor to be dictated to about credit worthiness or ability by someone who has presided over 5 years of abject failure using someone else's money but that's life.Under any method of analysis,the Club has not progressed-more debt,lower division,narrow escape from oblivion and of course lower crowds and income streams.That was the reason for me offering to help.

As for the new offer,I think it lacks a bit of punch by being perceived as Trust led.With meat now on the bones,it's clear the consortium can move with or without the Trust though clearly desirable for the Trust to stand it's corner-in any event,they should have a protected 10pc whether they raise money or not as I think it will be impossible to raise money from members on the basis that we 'don't have a deal yet'It's clear the consortium do have the money but are not prepared to hand money over to the current stakeholders to manage.

The attention has now switched from FS loans to AJ loans-my solution was a conversion rather than write off on the basis the equity would gain value and currency through better financial performance and progress with a new MD.If was also practical and fair to all.I did not ask for any write off by AJ but I did make it clear that none of the new money was going to be deployed paying out old debt that had been spent supporting operational losses with nothing to show for it.

It now appears that unless AJ and other loan note holders recover cash from any offer,we are at stalemate with first call on positive cashflow lying with the lenders-another drag on the Club progressing.

This is going to be a long haul I think

cufcdeano wrote:
The fact we have surplus this season is why AJ won't perhaps need to chuck more in this time around not, for me, a time to be paying back.

As regards fundraising, The Trust/CUOSC don't have a great track record for acheiving too much in that direction, I wish I felt more optimistic.

You would of got more people there if the plan hadn't been already submitted and been given a no.

It was a waste of time and given the numbers attending, others probably felt the same. It was a none event like losing on bullseye and being told what you could of won.

This won't happen anytime soon for a number of reasons. And with a certain person speaking to AJ re his shares and pioneers debt it will more than likely not happen at all.

Has that few days passed yet Mullen?

And just to clarify, the proposal hasn't been given a formal no, they've just indicated at this time it's not what they're looking for. The deal/offer is therefore still on the table until such time that either a better offer comes along, or AJ/JN want to discuss it further with the consortium.

cufcdeano wrote:
So no then

Re AJs shares watch this space or ask.

Bruntonpasty wrote:
Nothing makes me seethe more than this f**cking parasite wanting his twenty grand back



Not even a carlisle united supporter just using us the ladder climbing tw@t .

Difficult to get your head round AJ expecting his money back that doesn't happen in football and especially as it is his and the other owners failings that required his to keep putting in money.
Both Story and John C wrote of their debt, apparently AJ and JN are quite happy to kill the club off rather than give it to someone else.

pacirv wrote:
I`ll give JN his money back if I can take his place

Agree totally that AJ shouldn`t be repaid in full. A negotiated figure has to be arrived at based on his own incompetence brought about by naive and amateurish business practices. ( ie length of contracts dished out to failing managers, !!)

It's difficult to use the word 'custodian' anymore as that in my opinion simply highlights a potential conflict of interest.The broad definition of custodian is 'someone who looks after something of value for someone else'In this instance,someone else means the community-nobody could argue with that as even the three shareholders have stated that.

Against that,we have at least 2 of the 'custodians' looking to recover monetary value for themselves-recovery of debt and possibly money for shares.All noted in the match programme by AJ.

Are they 'custodians?'when their first instinct is to look after their own personal interests?They were from outset but the goalposts have shifted materially away from that position through a number of years of failure.

Mullen103 wrote:
I'm asking now. Send me a PM or msg in Facebook if you don't want to say what you know publically.

I'm not sure how more 'no' the programme notes could be-particularly when it appears to be full of inaccuracies if you believe the version of events trailed last night at the meeting

They're not custodians. You can't be a custodian if you knock back every material offer that comes your way.

They should come out and clarify their positions to the fans, not just in terms of why they knocked back one offer in particular, but what their future plans and intentions actually are

We need a mediator - I propose Fred Story.

But before wasting everybody`s time one simple question needs put directly to Andrew Jenkins and that is simply:

DO YOU SERIOUSLY INTEND TO RELINQUISH YOUR OWNERSHIP OF CARLISLE UNITED??

Once again AL has hit the nail firmly on the head - why is the bid through the Trust? It weakens if far too much.
In addition, to expect the Trust to raise £500K when they have not riased £60K in 6 years is strange to say the least.
What would happen to NS's money as part of this deal. Presume he still has to be Chairman/club rep until it is paid off, so any moeny raised has to go to him first?
It just offers easy ammunition for the three amigos to laugh the bid off.
I know this is very much against popular opinion, but I still think it strange that all expect AJ to write off money he has kept the club afloat with.

It isn't 'through the Trust', nor are CUOSC leading the bid. This is a joint consortium.

CUOSC need to fundraise, until now there hasn't been the urgency to raise funds on this scale; however in my opinion, going forward CUOSC need to be constantly raising funds and that's one area in particular that I want to help change. I don't pretend to have all the answers though and am very much open to help and advice from others.

With regards the NS loan, the (up to) 500k that CUOSC raise would all go into purchasing shares in the NewCo - not a single penny contributed would go towards paying off any outstanding loans. The NS loan is being paid off gradually.

Again, AJ isn't being 'expected' by the consortium to write off all money, but until the current financial situation of the club is known, that cannot be dealt with.

The problem is that public perception is that it is Trust led-and that makes a big difference.Any deal which is contingent on the Trust raising money will be blown out of the water as its full of uncetainty-and this has already happened.

This deal is no different to any other corporate transaction.The guy with the debt gets his money out before equity-that makes AJ the decision maker.The problem is the Club only has two assets to back the loan onto
-free cashflow from this season
-the ground

I would suggesting AJ is allowed to take the cash and replace it with the new money.Then look at a debt conversion or similar.BP is not something anyone should be even contemplating trading or relying on for debt repayment for obvious reasons.

At the end of the day,you can't make him exit,hence any deal with AJ has to be friendly.The other two are entirely dependant on AJ for shelter with that debt in place.

OI Laffy, shouldn''t you be skiing?

Getting a bit embarrassing now but your first para could not be more true.
Deano - no doubt your sincerity but we must have different definitions of gradual, but you have highlighted (inadvertently) a big sticking point.
The Trust still owe NS, who has various constraints on the Trust, but now want to go forward with a "joint bid" with someone else. NS must be laughing his whatsits off.
For what it is worth, my opinion is that the consortium bid independent of the Trust. There is far too much baggage with the Trust which unfortunatey will never be forgotton/forgiven by many.
I do agree what you say about th AJ money, my comment as more about most on this board.

Sadly had to come home last night as my beloved black lab Camilla was killed in an accident Thursday night-devastated doesn't begin to describe how I feel Griff.

Really sorry to hear that Laffy. Pets are family.

Sorry mike I meant speak to AB.

From what I understand AJs main concern was with regards the pioneer debt rather than his own. Rumours I've heard from a lot of people is this has been wiped off in return for some of AJs shares.

This would then create another director and AJ only having his personal debt to worry about.