TOPIC: Youth team coach

Bit of an odd one about yet again, confidentiality being used gagging the outgoing youth coaches.
But in all honesty they have failed to produce anyone for the first team unlike Kinder but to me the one coach with the best record of producing youth players is still with the club David Wilkes he who produced Jansen Delap etc.
Maybe he should be given the job again.

Bog off with your common sense ideas, ffs!

How can you fail to produce if the Manager isn't interested?

Curle has said he wants players who are ready for the first team - As though all 18yo's are instantly ready! Maybe not bothered in seeing if they'll train on? Who knows!

you can only get the best out of the talent you have available
you cant polish a turd so if the youth players aint up to it they aint up to it
you cant manufacture a player only help him be as good as he can be
you would like to think if a young player had the attributes and determination it would stick out a mile and someone at the club would notice

the youth candidates just haven't been good enough of late

I wonder if the "Nine in nine" plan is still on the go. The idea was to have nine locally produced players in the first team in nine years time - this was the buzz phrase at the end of season wake after Kav took us down.

CCU wrote:
So Curle wants Kyle Dempsey's and Alex Gilliead type 18yr olds this summer rather than Connor Hammell's. Can hardly blame him really. Remember he gave Hammell a contract last summer so it's not as if he point blank refuses to even consider our home grown players!

Could it possibly be because the current crop of youth team players aren't very good?

Would people rather we signed a few bang average youth team players who realistically don't have a hope in hell of ever making our first team? Or would it not be better to sign a 19/20 yr old released from a champ/prem club who is already at L2 first team level with the potential to develop further? I know which I prefer.

There isn't a hope in hell of us ever having more than three or maybe four local lads in the first team.

There quite simply isn't enough talent in the county, and of course these days some of them get nicked off by the big boys before the youth team stage of things.

Thinking of former CUFC youth products that are now playing in the top five divisions.

Bowman and Dempsey are Cumbrian lads.

Beck, Cook, Gillespie, Madine and Potts are all from the north east.

Aldred is from Bolton.

The reason Kinder got some good players in from afar was because he has got very good contacts in the north of England, and he used to get quite a few heads up.

Did Laffy not put a topic up on here a short while back saying how Cumbria was full of talent. They just end up elsewhere.

I do think the fact that our youth department,especially academy age doesn't have a great reputation locally has got a big part to play in not producing the players.We aren't getting them in early enough,or if we are getting them in they aren't progressing during the time with the academy.


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Football is not all about coaching now, the facilities are an important part of developing players ours are just terrible.

Happyblue wrote:
Yep, you need fancy monitors and state of the art equipment to teach kicking a ball.

Mouldy wrote: Was the post not referring to the actual playing facilities we have?

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Happyblue wrote:

We have some grass,balls some cones and bibs and heard on the grapevine even a flipchart and marker pen

should be enough I think

Mouldy wrote:
Footballs moved on technology is a key component, its a major part of Leicester's rise to the top, better facilities attract better players, means players can get better coaching, get better medical treatment and therefore can have better careers its quite simple really.

Happyblue wrote:
Has all this modern technology helped our national team win anything recently?

Have we not seen an increase in serious injuries and ligament damage over recent years?

We're hardly [censored] Leicester City Gary man give over. We're a tin pot team playing in a piss poor league. We're not exactly gonna produce the next Lionel Messi!

Shove your it's quite simple really up your wind up merchant arse and stop trying to rub people's backs up.

Edit to add - rant over. Love you really.

We have a great record for bringing boys throughh considering we're a small club ...not sure what's gone on with this latest crop and /or the coaches.

Mouldy wrote:
Pointless arguing with you, obviously your too stubborn, as a club we are not just behind the likes of man u, we are behind the like of fleetwood, crewe, oxford, shrewsbury, also as for me winding peoples backs up look back at these so called posts and look at who starts the argument its rarely me

Far from stubborn, one of the most open minded people you'll come across.

Anybody saying the biggest influential factors in player development aren't grass, balls and playing football is trying to jazz something up.

The physio room, gyms and conditioning training doesn't improve raw footballing ability. Yes, they add to their attributes and increase stamina levels, reduce injuries (supposedly), and help them jump higher. But it is footballing ability (tactical, mental and technical) that wins football matches.

in a world where the premier teams take hundreds of kids in every season we as a large mostly rural sparsely populated county are up against it getting good numbers of talent through door

if there is a highly talented kid in the region about half of the premiership will be aware of this and we are highly unlikely to get him signed

if I'm not mistaken we made about 600k plus on a couple of our produced players this year so not all bad

The situation changed in 2011 when the "90 minute rule" was abolished under threat of the Premier League cutting payments to the Football League. Prior to 2011 Academies were only allowed to sign players aged under 18 if they resided within 90 minutes travel of the training facility. This historically provided each club with a "catchment area". There were some exceptions to the rule to provide for players living in remote areas. Larger clubs were prevented from taking youth players away from home at a young age for training. Now anything goes.

Mouldy wrote:

Hm, so my son has a wee bit talent. I can send him to Bristol C for example where his play is analysed and training schedules developed to encourage him in the team style and training is designed for him to address his weaknesses. Where a dietician will work him and where he receives out of work supplementary education so he has something to fall back on if he doesn't make it. Or will I send him to |Carlisle where it is a quick kick about, a bag of chips and a couple of Capstans ? Lee Dyke seems to be doing his best to bring the scouting and training into the 21st century, long may it continue

I'd be surprised if all those clubs that spend millions on technology and dietitians didn't feel like there was some sort of tangible benefit to what they do.

They're aiming to get those percentage advantages, we as a lower league club, are right to try to emulate those things.

crunchblue wrote:
Let's just scrap our YTS and be done with it then...

CCU wrote:
Thats exactly what i.d do and use the money to run a development squad made up of lads released at 18 by clubs further up the league ladder.in conjunction with them doing a degree at the uni.

The plus side of the big clubs signing up hundreds of kids from the age of 8 is when they get released at 18 theyre desperate to stay in the game and would happily sign for our development squad for £300 a week to get a second chance in the game.

And with players of that age there will be some that are readt to play in the first team in an emergency meaning you could in fact run your first team squad with a couple of less squad players saving yourself £150k which would find the cost of running a team in the U21 league.

Well if Falkirk can do it:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36041403
Also as someone said elsewhere there were 6 or so lads playing for QoS all from their youth set up who went to bigger clubs than QoS last summer...

CCU wrote:
What, and miss out on finding another Kyle Dempsey in the future? Yeah really sensible idea.

Keep it, but don't do what you're suggesting in just handing out pro contracts for the sake of it to players that the manager doesn't believe are good enough.

Sam Allardyce (surprisingly) was one of the first with high tech analysis etc. at Bolton and he seemed to make the best of very little for a long time there.

Not sure what Shankly would think of all that palava but time moves on.

CUFCDeano

Did Laffy not put a topic up on here a short while back saying how Cumbria was full of talent. They just end up elsewhere


Get out of his posterior.

nobbyblue wrote:
I don't argue with the fact that technology and data ect can help get that bit extra out of a top athlete...

But we are talking about identifying talent and making sure they have the basic skills and tools to be a pro footballer and making the step up

all the state of the art equipment in the world wont help a player with ball control or passing ability or being able to keep their concentration or indeed give them the will and desire to be good enough....

I think it was Kinder before he left was bemoaning the work ethic of most of the kids before he left....

crunchblue wrote:
I'm not suggesting we hand out contracts like confetti, but at least a couple are worth a low cost gamble surely? At 18, these lads are still growing, with the right programme and some belief they maybe can make the step up?

Ridiculous that we won't because they're not first team ready instantly. Is it that the manager can't be bothered developing players? That's how it appears to me. Speaks volumes for his regime and methods!

CCU wrote:
Name the 2 you'd give contracts to then? What stood out about them when you saw them?

From what I hear were about to lose our best u14 player to Newcastle

Was said earlier in the thread.
Just down to a fee now.

Profpieman wrote: I would question how good Newcastle's academy actually is.

The Carlisle City Schoolboys Under 13s(the best schoolboy players in the district)beat Newcastle 5-2 earlier this season and that Newcastle team had 7/8 of their academy players in.I was one of the most one sided games I've seen for a long time.

From talking to the teacher over there I got the impression they take on a huge amount of players year in year out.

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CCU wrote:
He didn't actually give that as a reason though did he? Unless you've heard a different interview to me on this subject.

All I remember him saying was that he doesn't think they are good enough to have a career here but told them to not give up and pursue one elsewhere like he did after he was released as a teen.

The elite player performance plan was brought in a couple of years ago which was contested by a lot of smaller clubs, basically it gave the big clubs the chance to pluck players from lower league academy clubs with the idea that they would provide support to the lower league academy's and come to certain financial agreements with clubs.

The problem is that it gave the bigger clubs a massive net and free reign on lower league talent. Pretty sure we were going to be linked with Newcastle though I've been out the loop for awhile so not sure if that went ahead.

We defiantly do produce talent but it doesn't seem to progress into the pro ranks but it's a combination of things, our setup could be improved ten fold. Davie Wilkes is a decent coach with a lot of knowledge but I would question how much drive he has to produce another generation of exciting Cumbrian talent.

James tose is to me an obvious candidate, has all of his badges, brilliant coach and I'd imagine would love the step up/challenge. Think he was in the running when abbot was here but they had a falling out which put him out the picture.

The way the game is played in the premier league the top clubs want athletes first and foremost which is why modern technology plays a massive part in development. Nutritionists can also make a massive difference because of the way the top clubs want to nurture their talent. Gareth Southgate was one of a few names the FA tasked a few years ago with coming up with a blueprint which is currently on going.

When we were doing well at the top of league 1 you could see why it's harder for local lads to break in... When you could loan someone like Tom Lawrence or even Lubo...

It does seem strange not to have a punt on at least a couple of 18 year olds in the position we are in now.. A mid-table 4th Division side who don't look in any danger at all of rising through the leagues... Presumably they wouldn't on much coin... I have no idea of course... They might simply just not be good enough

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

I'd keep the YTS but probably do away with the academy groups. As already pointed out, very very few of our players have come through the system. Most have been picked up from elsewhere at 16. Get someone in with strong youth contacts to the north east and take a chance that the Kyle Dempsey type who comes along once every 10 years might still be unattached....

The Falkirk example is a good example of what can happen when a clubs owners decide on strategy. They've invested properly in youth and decisions are taken above the managers level about which players are assets and when they should be sold. Of course that takes forward thinking, bold and decisive leadership...

Here's a name, what about Gavin Skelton if Queens get shot, did well at Reds bound to have the right badges, must have contacts in the north and Scotland.