TOPIC: Paynter slagging Curle in N&S

Not online yet...

Paynter has spoke out to dispel notion he was a 'bad egg'...

Says he was 'singled out', a 'split' was engineered in dressing room between those in/out of favour.

Most interesting is that players were given scripts for media briefs - Reckon that was the Grainger/Dicker one after Accrington? Was odd at the time!

Big bit on the PFA stuff, lot more to it than just a fine.

Curle's first session he singled Paynter out for turning him down previously.

Curle has declined to comment on the claims.

*Awaits folk harping on that it's all Paynters fault, when it's obvious Curle is a clown*

3 sides to every story ccu. And the fact that Paynter didn't do his talking on the pitch is enough for me.

When Curle got the job he said that Paynter had previously turned him down at another club and made some joke about getting him back! He obviously had a major axe to grind with Billy.

SquarePass wrote:
Can't do it on pitch if manager won't play you!

Very interesting read, all 3 pages. Curle comes across as a controlling bully, something that's been alluded to previously...

You can please some of the people some if the time but not all the people all of the time.
Your bound to get clashes of personality it's part of life, Best that he's gone his own way best of luck to him, as for Curle this coming season will prove one way or another whether he is the right manager for us.

I remember Curle saying when he took over that everybody gets a clean slate... except Billy Paynter, who turned him down previously. I had assumed it was a joke at the time... but as I heard it he singled out a bunch of players very early on.. basically Paynter and anyone who had their own opinion during training... and made life as dificult as possible for them. And before anyone says.. " oh...they are footballers, how difficult could he make it of them"... nobody likes to be treated unfairly in any walk of life. If your boss deliberately went out of his way to be a c**t to you everyday because he wanted you out of the cpompany (club), and made it very clear that you had no chance of ever turning his opinion around, you wouldn't be happy about the situation either. Make no mistake this has been a deliberate and premeditated policy by KC to get rid of a number of senior players from the club. A lot of the stuff leaked to the press about these players attitudes etc. has been deliberately positioned to turn fans against them as I understand it. He does not sound like a manager who likes player input and is very obviously trying anything he can to force certain players, who have their own opinion, to leave.

Now you can view this both ways... you could say it is a good thing to get such a ruthless manager in. In terms of clearing the decks, I don't think he could have put more effort in to get rid of a number of players and get the wage bill down as quickly as possible. This would allow him to bring in players with a compatable attitude to put his plans into place. Or you could think this shows that he is a horrible individual with a enormpous ego, and this is no way to treat anyone, even footballers. Message of this type of behaviour gets out there in football circles and player recruitment becomes more difficult (no sign of that so far)... It creates massive splits in the squad during the transition phase, which was evident last year, and this affects performances short term.

Personally I think any team is better when they are all pulling in the same direction through choice, rather than by force or fear. I'm sure many on here have a different opinion though. Even Alex Ferguson use to get the opinions of his senior trusted players... one thing is for sure, KC is certain of his convictions, and is determined and ruthless in achieving his plan. Let's just hope his plan works!

I think we all just need to move on from Paynter he's not our player. He was brought in my another manager who got sacked. Curle came in for what ever reason didn't fancy him. Maybe he thought he could use the wages on someone better, I don't know but he has now gone to Hartlepool.

He has a total of 99 career goals in his 15 years in the game (from 426 appearances) but since 2010 he has scored just 17 goals in 114. That's just 1 goal every 6.7 appearances. You only have to look at his career and the clubs he's been with to see that his career is now in it's twilight.

Good luck to him at Hartlepool, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Well he didn't do it on the pitch despite starting every game for the previous manager, in fact he was shockingly bad and unfit.

Whilst I don't agree with out casting players that aren't wanted and think this is something that needs to be addressed with Curle by the guys in charge... Sweeney and O'Hanlon proved last season that if they knuckle down and work hard to prove themselves, they won't be outcasted and can still be involved while they are here.

Billy is playing the victim. Yeah he may have been hard done by in certain ways, but he's not entirely blameless himself and I don't believe he worked hard enough from day one.

Playing the victim? Defending his corner more like...

Curle wouldn't comment the N&S; said, tells its own story...

CCU wrote:
If he didn't comment it doesn't really tell any story. Paynter doth protest too much, methinks

Maybe the reason he didn't want to comment is that Paynter is no longer with us and he (Curle) is more interested in the season ahead not the one behind us.

I find it a bit petty for Paynter to be going on about this having joined a new club, chances are they're both in the wrong but the fact is that Paynter wasn't worth what we were paying him so he had to go. Anything else can be left behind now and we should be focusing on people still at the club, not ones who have left and can say anything without any repercussions. Curle can't exactly defend himself in public here because Dicker was pretty much in the same position as Paynter but is still at the club so it would be pretty unprofessional of him to openly criticise them both and probably wouldn't help his cause...

pigeonpete wrote:
Was going to say the same thing. No reason for Curle to comment on it now, Paynter has gone, forget about it. Nowt like a former player going to last seasons relegation rivals, trying to stir up crap at his ex-club shortly after leaving...

cufcdeano wrote:
Maybe Keith likes being branded a bully? Maybe gets his kicks from it!

You'd think he'd want to defend his name?

Paynter isn't the first, and probably not the last to bring it up...

CCU wrote: Playing the victim yeah. Making out he was totally in the right. Curle isn't innocent in all this, but anyone who thinks Billy has been the ultimate professional and has gave his all since signing last summer is kidding themselves.

He turned up last summer a fat, overweight, slow pile of turd. That was before Curle had anything to do with CUFC.

crunchblue wrote:
Think it's apparent both parties could and should have handled the situation differently. Blame on both sides in my opinion, although we probably wont hear KC's side of things.

Nowt like the taste of bitter lemons eh billy. For whatever fact, face it you and Curle didn't see eye to eye, you've left the club now so kindly bugger off and keep your head held high

Link here if it hasn't been posted already:

www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-united/la...speaks-out-1.1220939

Just read it now and I do think Curle may have overstepped the mark here. However, he says all this about training on his own, breaking down in the office, risking losing his family, leaving the game altogether and turning up and no one is in yet just drops the PFA complaint 'for the good of the team'?

Man was a fat overpaid waste of space in my opinion had one half decent appearance for us

Reading that interview gives me a good idea of his character and we are well rid in my opinion. He says he is a grown man and admits to crying in the office ffs

Paynter doesn't come out of this well. He's been poor for 2-3 seasons now, so his attitude has been in question for a long time. This sound like someone taking the opportunity to have a pop, when the professional thing is always to move on and say nowt. It's obvious that both Curle and Paynter made mistakes but it's done now, so why have a pop and play the victim...this again only makes me question his attitude in the first place.

I have no doubts that Curle is a strict boss, who has had to make tough decisions and upset a few people; good we needed someone to do it. It was thought that Kav was too tough on people and a 'bit of a bully'. Turns out he was too soft on them. All of this will be a distant memory IF Curle gets us playing.

I do think Curle needs to change the way he deals with unwanted players, but at the same time I don't buy this 100% professional hard working Billy Paynter story.

Sweeney and O'Hanlon were listed at the exact same time as Paynter. Both in exactly the same boat, transfer listed, not part of plans. The difference is these 2 obviously got on with it, worked hard and managed to force themselves back into the team. O'Hanlon has now left the club and in his News⋆ interview stated that he didn't end being put into that separate training group. Maybe there's a reason for that? He still obviously wasn't part of the plans(hence his later release) but maybe he applied himself and worked damn hard to give a positive reaction to being transfer listed, likewise Sweeney.

So yeah I think someone high up at the club needs to be having a word with Curle about this divide, but I'm not buying this blameless Paynter story one bit.

Fair few reports of Curle being a bit of a bully, which is worrying.

If he scores against us I'd love to see what kind of reaction he would give to KC. However he probably won't even start a game.

Or he will go out and bang 25 goals next season which would be bloody typical....... Paddy Madden anyone?

I understand those that say that this is history and it is a new season coming up. I also get those who think it is just bitterness from a player who has left the club... although it has to be said that I , and many others, heard pretty much the same thing many months ago about KC management style. It is also important to note that a number of players treated in a similar way are still at the club... how likely are they to play their hearts out for a manager who treated them this way? Sweeney and SOH have been mentioned in KC defence as those who turned the situation around with effort... where is SOH now for that effort? He played them more out of neccesity than anything else... hell he even played Dicker and Paynter when he got more desparate. Plus there are many players who weren't in the "excluded" group who will be first team regulars this term who are more than a little p1ssed off by Curle's methods. From what I understand Paynter, Dicker, Robson, Symington, Kearns etc. were all very well liked within the squad, stayed professional inspite of the the efforts to force them out, and very far from being the "bad eggs" they were branded by the scripted press releases... and also very clear who the current players believe was at fault for the situation. Personally I would probably have told him where to stick his job. You have to earn respect from a group... you can't force it. Why should the players believe anything KC says when he bangs on about honesty when he hasn't shown any in the treatment of a number of players? He should just have said I'm going to move you on, instead of these underhand tactics. It is a high risk strategy for manging a team... but hopefully the number of new signings will dillute the ill feeling from the rest of the squad and he can begin to try to form a team that is pulling in the same direction.

edited to add: I'm in no way saying that Billy Paynter is a great player with an amazing attitude by the way. Just saying he wasn't as bad as the character painted out to be. The more concerning one for me is Dicker... now he is a model pro... treating him that way is shoddy. Hopefully the manager will realise the error of his ways and stop excluding him.

O'Hanlon wasn't made available for transfer until later on and even then I seem to remember it was partly at his own request due to the travelling.

The point i made re O'Hanlon is that despite being one of the unwanted lot, he didn't get put in the separate training group. Maybe it's because he showed a positive reaction to being transfer listed and the likes of Paytner and Gillies didn't.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it.

MerseysideBlue wrote: It was at exactly the same time as Paynter was made available. November/December time if I remember right.

You've got to remember Curle coached a lot under Neil Warnock who uses similar methods.

Joseph Goebbels was a big fan of divide and conquer as well.

crunchblue wrote: Or.... it was because we had no fit central defenders at the time he made his way back into the team so Curle was forced to play him and not exclude him... then he proved to be the least sh1t of our defenders over the last few months and kept his place.

CCU wrote:
Paynter has 1 goal in his last 40 league games. He had plenty of chances last season. Lazy, unfit, overpaid, talent-free.
Was Keith a bit mean? Aw diddums. Because Alex Ferguson, Bill Nick, Shankly, or Mourinho have never had a rant at anyone have they?

Curle is a clown and we should have got rid at the end of last season. Paynter is crap but that doesnt justify the treatment he got. My concern is that the club is trusting the development of young players like Brough, Dempsey and Rigg to this clown.

Lufbrablue wrote:
Brough, Dempsey and Rigg have all improved under Curle though.

deeksme wrote: How many of those managers alienated and excluded 1/3 of their playing squad at the same time, forcing them to train on their own? How many times have they been taken to the FA for unfair treatment of players? The issue isn't really Paynter... who admittedly was a bit crap for us... it is wider than that. It is about the manager's man management abilities, squad morale, and the perception of the club within the game. Curle's methods are very unorthodax to say the least... if he get's results this season many won't care though.

Northumbrian wrote: Maybe so

Northumbrian wrote: Exactly. If we have a core squad of 20 players who are in and around the first time and we're challenging at the right end of the table, not many fans will give a shit if we have a few pissed off players training away from the main group.

Like I've said, I don't think Paynter/Gillies etc are entirely blameless, I thought they both had fitness issues before Curle arrived at CUFC. I just don't think they have the motivation to do the hard work. That said, this kind of squad split can't be good and I think someone higher up at the club needs to step in and tell Curle that if he can't move players on then they have to be part of the group even if they don't play matches.

There's a good chance that one of the main reasons that Curle got the job is because he told Nixon and Co that he was going to ruffle some feathers that, given the shower that preceded him, was absolutely needed. Because of this he obviously knew that he would have the support of the board when he did use these techniques.

The worrying thing about all of this though is that regardless of whether Paynter was sh!te for us or not, a number of players have been alienated and have come out and criticised him or the way they have been treated. It's his job to get the best out of players and to make us win games; something that he didn't achieve last year and all of this makes you worry that it might happen again.

Forget about the fact that this is Paynter that we're talking about, there have been enough rumblings of discontent about the place to make this unsettling.

Sounds a wee bit 6 and half a dozen to me. Lets see what happens next, I would think Curle is under pressure to move a few on with all the recent signings, wonder if we will hear more stories of Sweeney, Dicker and the rest training seperately

Mmmmm,
Lets forget good old Billy and how crap and overweight he was for a moment eh?
Lets ask about, Mr Dicker, Mr Kearns, Mr Marrow and more recently Mr Buddle, to name but a few, seems like a hell of a lot of similar stuff with these guys?
Coincidence???

What's he done to Buddle?

CCU wrote:
I wish you would stop bringing Curle up every 5 minutes, been said before but man you're like a stuck record.

What if Curle contradicts everything Paynters said?

Let be honest the group last year were heavily branded as the worst CUFC side of all time! The first 8 games were ridiculous! Players like Marrow, Paynter, Kearns & Dicker all paid a fortune all ubderperforming and none of them really appeared to give a shit!

I'll be incredibly interested to see how Curle's new look side do next season... If the same issues arise then somethings clearly wrong with his management style! But he did his job last season controversially or not... He deserves a fair shot at this season becausd i'd have bitten anyones hand off at Xmas who offered me safety in April!

If Curle has been acted like what everyone suggested then it will either go two ways:

1. The players rebel and make a terrible start to the season and force Curle out the door.
2. The players think if we don't play 100% we're out the, Curle has the backing of the board. And we make a great start to the season.

Should be a interesting first 10 games as always as a United fan. I hope for everyone's sack it's the latter.

Wonder what our esteemed director of football has to say about all this.

Maybe he could take training for the unwanted ones and pass on some of his vast experience in the game to help turn their careers around

Considering the powers that be upheld the punishment although reduced shows that by the letter of the law Curle must of been correct in his actions. I think Paynter got of lightly if Roddy had still been in charge he would of been training in front of Costa's coffeehouse followed by sprint training up and down botchergate and finishing off with 5 rounds in the ring with a stripped to the waist Roddy Collin's, then he would of realy had something to cry about. Paynter has gone now and I'm glad Curle was more professional than to get involved in a pointless tit for that.

Reiver, can you run a book on who he'll fall out with 1st this season? I'll go for young McQueen.

No doubt there was fault on both sides however Curle does appear to alienate certain players. I thought it strange that when Curles back was against the wall he turned to Dicker and Paynter who did the business and then were immediately dropped again.

Stamfordblue wrote: Well he turned to Dicker yeah - he started 3 or 4 games in a row if I remember right, but Paynter came on against Plymouth after 2 of our strikers had gone off injured. Don't think he started any games in the second half of the season.

Curle has had previous although the allegations were unfounded. It seems he has learnt nothing and despite the results of his time at Mansfield there was obviously no smoke without fire.

If he doesn't produce results this time given his unorthodox methods he may never get another Managers job again in the Football League.

I think he should just have moved on and let his football do the talking. Strange that Leeds fans hold him in such low esteem? Right from the Saint Mirren game i personally was disappointed at how poor he was. Even prior to Curle's arrival i felt that Richard Brodie at Southport was better than Paynter. Personally i don't rate him and my impression was that he showed zero interest until the Plymouth game and that simply trying needed to be greeted with plaudists.

Twining in the press is all a bit sad and undignified. Lets see where he is in a years time eh. Time to move on. At least craig Curren tried in every game that he played.