TOPIC: Best Ever British Managers

I'm sure this has been done before but my top three are:

1. Bob Paisley
2. Brian Clough
3. Alex Ferguson

Bit controversial maybe but there you are (Greg Abbott in a close 4th).

Always an interesting discussion and a very worthy top 4 you've got there. Putting them in order is difficult because each have different strengths that perfectly suited the clubs where they had their success. Could Clough have continued and built on an already a very successful Liverpool side? I don't think so, nor do I think he could have maintained Ferguson's desire for success over the period of time he did. Likewise I doubt Paisley or Ferguson (or anyone) could have done what Clough did at Forest.

Could any of them have got Carlisle promoted into the first division?

I'd recommend I believe in miracles that is on BT Sport. The story of Forest's European Cup winners.

You would have to to add Shankly to that list , in what order that's a difficult one.The only thing to say is Paisley inherited a vey successful team,Clough did it with two English teams, Ferguson did it for decades with Man U .Shankly basically made LIverpool.

seabird wrote: It's often overlooked what Ferguson did at Aberdeen.

You've got to take into account that Paisley was assistant to Shankly during the initial successes as well.

In less than nine years as manager he won:
Football League First Division (6): 1975–76,[31] 1976–77,[32] 1978–79,[33] 1979–80,[34] 1981–82,[35] 1982–83[36]
League Cup (3): 1980–81,[37][38] 1981–82,[39] 1982–83[40]
FA Charity Shield (6): 1974,[41] 1976,[42] 1977,[43] 1979,[44] 1980,[45] 1982[46]
European Cup (3): 1976–77,[47] 1977–78,[48] 1980–81[49]
UEFA Cup (1): 1975–76[50][51]
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1977[52][53]

and was Runner Up
Football League First Division (2): 1974–75,[54] 1977–78[55]
FA Cup (1): 1976–77[56]
League Cup (1): 1977–78[57][58]
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1981[59]
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1978[60][61]

That is an amazing record and arguably built some of the best sides ever in European football.

If its all about trophies then its Ferguson, Stein, Smith!!!

For me though Id go for Clough, Ferguson and Ramsey( Just for 1966 )

But you have to admire blokes like Gradi working miracles at Crewe

1/ brian clough
2/ bob paisley
3/ don revie

The above are all outstanding at top level. But to be regarded as best you have to demonstrate that you could succeed at lower levels as well, without the advantage of loads of cash. Dario Gradi, as above is one. Any others?

Dave wrote: Tisdale has been at Exeter for quite a while now, not sure you can say he's had equivalent success to the greats though. If he was that good someone with a bigger budget would have snapped him up by now. Was Gradi ever approached by a bigger club?

John Rudge did a good job at Port Vale

Dave wrote:
Have a look were leeds and forest were when revie/clough took over, that's why clough is my no1, second division to back to back European cups! You won't see that ever again.

Alan Ashman

Sir Alex Ferguson

Sir Alf Ramsey

nobbyblue wrote: Can't diasgree with those choices Nobby. Think Sir Matt may have just edged Abbott out of fourth place though

Eddie Howe of Bournemouth has done well with 3 promotions

I always thought Cyril Knowles never got the recognition he deserved. Hartlepool and Darlington promoted, Torquay into the play offs. Not many can do that even in Championship Manager

Herbert Chapman.

Or did you just mean managers from the television era?

That Forest documentary on BT Sport looks quite good, me Dad loved watching it - saw parts that made me laugh, always knew Clough was a character but loads I haven't seen at all from him.

Seems a different world English Football from that era now.

!:- Bill Shankley
2:- Matt Busby
3:- Alex Ferguson

Also considered Bill Nicholson and Brian Clough

1. Bobby Robson
2.Brian Clough
3.Eddie Howe
Simply for what they achieved at 'smaller' clubs.

musher441 wrote:
Great shout on Bobby Robson.

Dancingbear wrote:
Winning a European trophy with Ipswich, amazing like.

Joe Fagan - manager of Liverpool for 2 years, won 3 trophies, and got to 2 European Cup Finals.
Busby worked miracles as well - arguable that they weren't even the biggest club in Manchester (think they nearly went down to £North in the 1930s) when he took the job. Built an amazing team, and overcame a horrendous tragedy to do it again.
Clough - Derby County got to a European Cup semi-final under him, as well as all he did with Forest.
Bill Nick at Spurs - 3 European finals as well as the Double.
Jock Stein wasn't bad either!
The fella at Wolves in the 50's was great too, but I'd have to go:

1 Paisley
2 Ferguson
3 Busby, just edging out Clough.

Have the same discussion in 25 years - do you think there'll be many new British names? I doubt it, sadly.

Bobby Robson was a very good club manager, just a shame he was terrible at international level.
Paisley was good but took over a successful team, same of fagan.
Alex Ferguson got very lucky with nevilles, giggs, Beckham, butt and the best of them all scholes, not enough success in Europe either.
That's why clough is no1, kings of Europe back to back with forest! Unbelievable.

Have we done any better at International level since Bobby went though?

Dancingbear wrote:
Just what I was thinking db.

1. Sir Alf
2. Sir Bobby
3. Cloughie

Paisley took over a team that had won 4 titles in 50+ years, and then won 6 in 9 seasons. 3 consecutive European trophies. A legacy left that meant it was 9 years before they finished below 2nd.
Clough was excellent but 81-88 was average; eventually took them down too.

Robson got us to a WC semi in 90 despite 2 key midfielders getting crocked. 86, lost in the last 8 to one of the worst decisions of all time. Both times lost to the winners.
Sir Alf won the league with Ipswich, astonishing really. Best 2 England managers ever.

deeksme wrote:
So no credit to bill shankley then?
2 key midfielders being crocked in 1990? who? we got to the 1/4 and semi finals despite robson being manager, not because of him.
In 1990 we won one game in 90 minutes, 1-0 against eygpt, belguim played us off the park and lineker dived twice against Cameroon! In 86 the press ended up picking the team.

Stinkyturner wrote:
Bryan Robson was out with a broken toe while Neil Webb wasn't fit after knackering his Achilles 9 months previous and wasn't the same player again. Also Gazza was suspended for the semi after 2 yellows in the previous 5 games.

Robson is our most successful national manager since Ramsey. The 1990 team was fantastic compared to the shower Taylor took to Euro 92. That must be the worst England national team ever which, incidentally featured one K Curle.....

Gazza missed the Italia 90 semi?

Wazza wrote:
Who got booked and started crying then???

Dancingbear wrote:
Not sure if you have me wrong there - read what Turnbull said about Gazza.

Wazza wrote:
Aye sorry he picked up his second yellow during the semi and missed the 3rd place match. How could I have forgotten those tears in Turin during the second half!

Turnbull wrote:
Ha, I read that about five times wondering if I had it wrong then!

Wazza wrote:
Sorry was meant to be for Turnbull. Hes been suitably reminded anyway

Give over with your brian robson and neil webb!!
England only improved in 86 when robson got injured AGAIN and Wilkins got sent off, bobby robson was forced to put in the 2 inform midfielders, reid and hoddle, He was forced by the press and the fact we were going out to pull lineker off the right wing, drop hately and put in Beardsley, The team that ended up starting games wouldn't of if bobby robson had his way, I liked robson at club level but he was lost at international level.

As for 1990, Any team with gazza, lineker, barnes, shilton, des walker etc should do well, we only beat eygpt in 90 minutes, should of won that tournament.

Who would have been favs for that? Germany?

Italy, it was their tournament, they were never ment to lose.

Value added, its got to be

1. Ashman - "The greatest feat in the history of the game" - Shankly
2. Shankly - he took a 2nd division Liverpool side and created a dynasty - Fagin, Paisley and Dalglish all came from his work and we started him and he got us to draw with the mighty Arsenal.
3. Ferguson - hurts me - he is an ignorant git - but 23 years and loads of trophys in the modern world makes him special
4. Clough - Notts Forest (I love winding them up) - 2 European championships and before that Derby County from 2nd division to 1st Division champions. All that with ordinary players and a low budget.
5. Stein - first British winner of the European cup and that amazing Lions of Lisbon performance.

Modern managers are moved on so quickly that it is hard to see if they are any good or not.

Stinkyturner wrote:
That right eh, some real quality in German side at the time playing in Serie A. Meant betting wise not public.

Not sure about the betting tbh, not really a betting man.
Going off memory I'm sure it was all about italy, Pavarotti and all that, the Germans were always favorites or near favorites, the Dutch were also very strong but failed badly in this tournament, the last great World Cup.

Bit of research Germany were 7/1 Argentina 14/1

Stinkyturner wrote:
Aye I thought the Dutch like, was just thinking with Italy not doing too well at Euro 88 really. Had a look at the squads last night and noticed how every Italian played in Italy.

Stinkyturner wrote:
To clarify, the 2 crocked midfielders I meant were Robson and Barnes. Barnes was top scorer for the league champions that season, and the player of the year, sadly after wrongly having a goal chalked off in a very even game with Belgium, he got an injury.
Robson was captain of Man Utd as well as his country. 2 vital players.

The world cup as a whole was arguably the worst ever, with defences dominating. Ireland played awful football despite having some players capable of nice football; the Dutch flopped massively; Argentina were horrendous to watch.

"All Played Out" by Pete Davies is one of the best football books ever, and it is well worth reading. Very revealing stuff with some England players.

Robson was finished at international level by 1990, he would of played as he was bobbys "pet" thank god he was injured, gazza or platt would of missed out!!
When did Barnes get injured as he started the next game against Cameroon?

Robson was going downhill yes, but then so were Lineker, Shilton, Butcher etc. He played another 4 years and 100+ games for Man Utd, winning the league, league cup and beat Barcelona in a European final, so still had a bit about him.

Barnes got injured against Belgium, went off, tried to manage v Cameroon but had to go off then too.

Think I read that Robson's injury was drink related rather than football, could be wrong though.