TOPIC: EU leaflets

27 million EU leaflets to be given out at a cost of 9.3 million to the taxpayer. Untill I saw taxpayer I thought Cameron had the top hat and magic wand out, Or he had raided Old Pappy Camerons off shore accounts...

The TV ads have started too...

The more "project fear" is rammed down my throat, the more likely I am to vote out. I had a leaflet through from Labour this morning.... 10 facts about why it will damage us leaving Europe.... there wasn't one fact on there.... just a bunch of loose, one-sided, scaremongering sound bites.... their only source for these "facts" seemed to be some studies carried out by the EU! The scary thing is that a lot of people will believe that claptrap.... or just blindly follow the opinion of the political party they associate with, because that's what they always do.

Reasons to vote out:

1) We are a democratic Sovereign Country.
2) Our forefathers fought for democracy, and our freedom to challenge the ruling class.
3) We have a strong currency
4) We are British first and European second, and that's the way we like it.
5) The EU is about Unionism and Jobs for the boys, unelected people finding things to make rules about, to ' protect us ' > what a load of b@@@cks.
6) Immigration and exploitation of welfare and public services (NHS, Education, Dole, etc) does not sit comfortable with us, so it is time to stop whinging and start voting.
7) To control our own destiny and future, not by some Eurocrat from a Country with a population the size of Manchester and a Minimum wage of less than £1.00 hour.
We need to stop being a bunch of mugs, Brussels is for unelected career politicians.
9) They need us more than we need them
10) Restore British pride and credibility

Its worked completely the opposite for me.

I was completely undecided but now i'm definitely out.

Out means a hugely increased chance of an independent Scotland so will get my vote. No more NHS cuts, education cuts and transport cuts from a prime minister and Chancellor who are estimated to make over £5m tax free between them this year. Bring it on

Markovitch wrote:
Paid for with 60% tax on high earners and confiscatory property taxes. Anyone in Scotland with a few bob should be leaving now before it is too late.

Markovitch wrote: And mine on the same basis... no more bailing out Scotland.... reduced welfare budget....reduced need to make cuts on services in England. Plus with the ridiculous tax levels that will be needed to pay for the SNP spend promises, anybody of any value economically in Scotland will move to England anyway. Let the brain drain begin...

thesilentone wrote:
4) English first

franksidebottom wrote:
4) Cumbrian first

sirjimmyglass wrote: 4) Northumbrian first

Won't make a shred of difference, other than to push some people into voting the opposite. I'm confident that once everyone sees they're basically being told what to think by Cameron and Gideon, they'll be more than happy to make their own minds up, just not in the way that "Dave" hopes. Also, as we get nearer to the big day, Blair will start sticking his oar in (he won't be able to help it), which will be the kiss of death for the 'In' campaign.

The reason that people are voting in droves for people like Farage and Corbyn is that they represent something different, and very much seen as 'rebellious' and non-conformist. It's the same reason that Boris Johnson declaring for 'Out' could have a more significant impact than some people think. The more that the 'In' campaign is seen as having the Establishment's grubby hands all over it, the more I expect the opinion polls to start heading the other way.

Regardless of how the EU vote goes, Sturgeon and her cronies can get stuffed. The Scottish Independence vote was lost fair and square. They should've pushed the possibility of an EU exit angle more. Once in a lifetime vote means exactly that, not can we have another one a couple of years later because the landscape may change. Tough shit...

Frontex who are in charge of our Borders and Europes Borders said if they did'nt know this had come from Downing Street they would have thought it had come out of a kids comic,Well I know what I'm gonna do with mine, Cut it intio squares and hang it on the Kazi door to wipe me arse on.....

They're urging everyone to stick it in an envelope addressed to '10 Downing Street' and post it back to him. Imagine the scene if the Post Office has to deliver 10 million of them, going back the other way

We'll set the taxes we want and spend the money the way we decide. Typical Tory reaction, we will dictate and judge because we are better than you. Well you spend money on Trident, on fx 35a aircraft that the DoD have petitioned Congress to scrap. Your country, your money, your decisions. Just extend that courtesy to us, that's all we ask. An independent Scotland, our right. As I see we all want the same thing, out of Europe for England, so let's agree on that and leave it there. I'll be voting for it

£350 MILLION POUNDS A WEEK CONTRIBUTION

ENOUGH SAID

Markovitch wrote: Absolutely agree Markovitch... the perfect scenario for me would be to leave the EU and grant independence to Scotland. If you could take Wales and Northern Ireland with you and create a Celtic Nation then even better.

4, I am half Cumbrian half Northumbrian does that make me Numbrian ?

4,Numbrian first

My father and grandfathers fought to keep Britain safe from the jackboot, But I'm afraid were under the rule of the Brussels jackboot, Well F**k Europe they need us more than we need them We survuved without the EU we can survive again......

Well I would leave Europe in a heartbeat...

Do I want Britain to break up? No way I am proud to be British or should I say I used to be before all the wishy washy liberal attitudes when we decided to try and take care of the rest of the world at the expense of our citizens whoever they are these days....

We need to regain some of our identity as the way we are going it wont matter a toss if we are English,British,European or just some borderless refugee camp which is what it feels like to me in certain areas

I can see the advantages of both in and out.

But one things for sure if we stay in it should be on our tems no body elses and dear old Mrs Merkle needs reminding just who exactly won the last two wars [ And the 66 world cup for that matter ]

And i would start with any new countries that wish to join do so on the basis that they pay in for 10 years as associate members before theyre entitled to any benefits or their citizens any rights and then we.ll see how keen they are and those that are already in and arent achieving the targets they were set when they joined be demoted to associate status until they are.

The "In" campaign seem to suggest we should stay and try and effect change to the EU from within. This would assume other member states would also vote for the changes we would be putting forward, does anyone really believe that this is a realistic possibility? I for one do not.
It has been mentioned before that the EU has been unable to sign it's accounts off for a significant number of years, Is this acceptable ? that an organisation as big as the EU cannot balance it's books? Should we continue to pour our money into such an organisation? I for one do not believe this situation is acceptable.
The vote in 1975 was, i believe, for our membership of the EEC which was a free trade agreement. Is that what we have now? were we ever consultuted on the changes to the EEC/EU that turned it into it's current incarnation? Don't think we were?

There are many other things that tell me "out" is best, but the three above are enough for me.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europ...ts-own-spending.html

All this bollocks about how we're better off out is just the same shite the tartan separatists came out with 18 months ago, I'm getting deja vu

I like to tell them the english-born vote was crucial in keeping scotland part of the uk, it boils the gingers piss something rotten.

Hopefully the british abroad vote will do the same this time and I can enrage the ukippers with it

orfc wrote:
The truth is, nobody knows for certain what will happen if we come out but, My vote for out is based on my belief that the EU is an organisation that is no longer fit for purpose and will only ever become even less fit for purpose. The finance of it now is obviously a shambles and with more net recipients than net contributors, it will only get worse and get more expensive for the UK taxpayer, with no increase in benefit for the UK.

Monday, No I did'nt benefit from my dear old Pappys off shore accounts, Thursday well yes I did have 5,000 shares that me and my dear wife sold for 30 grand......But I did pay taxes on them, Can you honestly trust this lying [censored] to tell the truth over the EU.......

CCU wrote:
She does it to distract from the fact that they're actually quite crap at running the country.

My company are looking at moving into some new European countries and I'm heading the project looking at viability of the individual markets..... over the last few weeks I have had several one-to-one meetings with UK Trade and Industry experts for 7 different EU countries.... these are people born and raised in the European countries who head up the UKTI for exports to their country. Every one of them was asked how leaving the EU would affect our exports... every single one of them laughed and said it will have absolutely zero impact. In fact they couldn't even understand the logic being used by our government IN campaign. Every one of them said "why would we impose tariffs on your exports when we export far more to your country... we have more to lose with tariffs than you do" Every single one of them said it will have no negative impact for the UK exports...

Remember we are a net importer from the EU.... they have more to lose from tariffs than we do. The German and French car industry would be hit extremely hard if a tit-for-tat trade tariff was introduced. If our products and services are good enough and cheap enough people from EU countries will still buy them... Don't buy into the BS "project fear" are spouting about having to agree to a Norway or Swiss style trade agreement....we are a much bigger market for EU countries than them... we will organise a deal that suits us, and as a big net importer we hold all the cards.

Thanks Northumbrian. It nice to read some actual facts for a change rather than the usual self interesting claptrap on tv and radion.

Dancingbear wrote: It is just the opinion's of 7 people.... but 7 people who know what they are talking about on this subject. I'm inclined to believe them more than our politicians. It's interesting to note that several of them also said that there were large sections of their country also campaigning for a say on the EU membership of their own countries. I get the feeling that if we vote OUT there may be several other referendums following.

Deja vu....
Northumbrian wrote:
"a Land Rover made in the English Midlands is an import if it's sold from a showroom in Perthshire."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28916642


Also, if we sold more to the EU than we imported, a committed kipper could argue they need our goods more than the hassle of raising duties and having to pay more for them. I know the SNP tried that with oil and gas before the arse dropped out the market.


PS.
Northumbrian wrote:
These people's jobs is to drum up trade. They're hardly going to sit there, suck air between their teeth and then say "ooh [censored] I wouldn't bother mate, god knows what'll happen"

All of these countries and England are in the WTO which has anti tariff rules so coming out of the EU won't have any effect.

Markovitch wrote:
China's in the WTO - www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/china_e.htm

China's just whacked up steel tariffs - www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/01...u-steel-imports-tata

Yes,you are completely correct, but we can challenge them- though this Government almost certainly won't. The US has 236% tariffs on Chinese steel, to date the Chinese have not challenged that but the right is there. If they win, compensation will be back dated

Edited to say the EU can challenge in its own right as well or any of the member states if they can show loss

I think it has been an amazing PR failure for the in campaign to allow themselves to be labeled "project fear" when in reality both sides are using fear as their primary weapon to get voters on their side.
It is a further PR blunder for the government to issue pro-EU leaflets at the cost of the tax payer - it was obviously going to be criticised.

I have always been passionately pro-European so I am disappointed that a proper debate based on facts looks it is off the cards and decisions will be made based on sensationalised media stories.

TBH, even me who would expect to lose out from a brexit and usually has an interest in politics is starting to give up caring about this referendum. It's almost got to the stage where if enough babies cry loud enough it is easier just to let them get their way.

I would lose out financially if we left the EU - the impact on farmers' spending if they lost their EU subsidies and not being able to stuff my hand luggage with duty-paid Polish cigarettes (totally legally). Nevertheless I will be voting Out without any hesitation. The EU experiment is a slow-motion car crash. Former Eastern Bloc countries like Poland are being stripped of their young workers as they emigrate to the UK and are only being kept afloat by EU money being spent on infrastructure projects. Economies like those of Greece, Spain and Portugal will never recover to the boom days. Stagnation followed by a slow economic implosion is the likely end result. The EU will mirror what has happened with Japan's economy over the last 2 decades.

The UK thanks to its strong financial sector, its language, its reputation for fair play and its history of the Commonwealth is exceptionally well-placed to tap into growth economies like India and South East Asia. We can remain on friendly terms with our European partners but we will thrive on our own.

Would agree with almost every thing you said except the last part. The world is divided neatly into the US group (including the UK) and the China group. India, China and Russia are firmly together so while you very actively support the US, trade with India will be limited. When Obama went there on a trade mission Modi didn't even go to the airport to meet him. As for SE Asia, depends on country, Vietnam yes, Burma and Cambodia no. I was in Burma at the Government a few weeks ago, still waiting for sanctions to be lifted over the gem trade and Obama is refusing to remove them because he knows the Chinese will flood in.

Markovitch wrote:
Fortunately the Vietnamese economy is worth a multiple of that of Burma and Cambodia combined and the Vietnamese are very pro-Britain and Australia. There are UK companies getting involved in Burma particularly in exploiting the tin and tungsten deposits. Obama is right, the Chinese will flood into Burma given half a chance.

Truth is being part of the EU is not much help when we are trading with the rest of the World. It is never the EU trying to build trade links it always comes back to UKTI.

Just had a load of sh!te through the door from the out campaign. Who is paying for it? Can't imagine they are paying for it out of their own pockets.

carwash wrote:

Can't disagree with any of that until the very last part. I was manager of an EU project in Vietnam for 2 years, the UK had no weight there in MInFIn when I was there. The EU cut ice because of the financial size of the project, I had Eu12m under management and I was one of six projects. Between us I would have been very unhappy paying tax for what we were doing

Nobody can honestlly say what will happen if we vote out.

But I can guarentee what will happen if we vote to stay in.

The EU will think the have free reign to tighten their grip even harder and push for a United States of Europe.

Not for me, thanks.

You better believe it Denton, Don't anybody be frightened if we leave WE WILL SURVIVE, And be better for it if we kick the snouts in the trough brigade into touch.Remember we put more in than we get out, And since jolning the EU we coughed up trillions and thats a fact.....

Markovitch wrote:
The US putting 230% tariffs on Chinese steel just makes matters worse for us. That makes China more likely to flood our market which has no tariffs.

Mines on its way back to Dodgy Dave c/o 10 Downing St, F**king insult to our intelegence....

Just sent mine back to the Government. George Orwell predicted the creation of the Superstates and a perpetual state of war in the book 1984. Sadly he was clearly a visionary as well!

Fat Boy Slim Fast wrote: Well said FBSF. So much of that book is relevant to what appears to be happening today. In common with some other posters my copy of the governments leaflet has been posted to Mr Cameron with comments written alongside some of the paragraphs.
Forget planet fear - vote for planet hope.

"Grant independence to Scotland"? Dear dear! The electorate voted NO and we don't want it thank you. As for this fanciful Celtic Nation nonsense - leave it out.

As good a reason as any to vote out is the fact Dodgy Dave has apparentley said he.ll resign the next day if thats the way the vote goes

pensionerblue wrote:


I can reveal who I want to ignore.

If you cannot spell intelligence then just [censored] off.

Farage and Boris being in favour of getting out is enough to make me vote to stay in.