TOPIC: Chickens starting to come home to roost

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/05...brexit-standard-life
Most of the U.K. housebuilders and suppliers are down anything between 15 and 40% post Brexit.
The country has been down rated by the credit agencies, some international companies and banks are putting any further UK investment on hold and numbers of businesses are putting pay rises on hold and recruitment on freeze.
Oh and the currency down 10% so far.
Nice work Farage, Boris and Gove and those who believed their rubbish and accused those who pointed out the risks as scaremongers.

you can say what you like about people who voted and campaigned leave.......but i never made my mind up on wanting to leave the EU listening to a politician.

originally i was wanting out for this country to become a safer place, but its more than just that! there was no plan for leaving and until the tory leadership has been resolved there still isnt. out of all the candidates i sincerely hope Andrea Leadsom becomes the next PM.

They did'nt tell us our footy message board would get all europhile post brexit. Calm down boarder! Don't believe all you read just because you want it to be true. Plenty of remain folk are grasping at their own credibility ego's as its all they have left. No way these sort of figures are accurate so soon after brexit. Every other time we get them in arrears reflective of the previous financial quarter.
In any event think rationally..... these things can ocurr if china or america sneezes.nothing to do with brexit. Remember osborne's post election budget fanfare..... 4 months later he did an emergency budget due to the financial crash in china. Proof if ever that brexit is a total red herring for the doonmongering remain gang.lets just get on with it.

FOOKS SAKE IT'LL BE REET

Doom mongers talking the country down. Onwards and upwards

Think its time for the bitter Remain voters to log off from here for a few days wash their piss soaked bed sheets and get on with life .

One of the reasons given by Leave voters was to give their children a chance of owning their own home. Too many immigrants had the effect of driving up property prices. Something else wrong was happening with housebuilders. I have never seen so many new houses being built in North Tyneside as currently. Where are the new homeowners supposed to come from? This was a crash waiting to happen.

It's the same with the City of London. The pace of demolition and development of new buildings has never been faster yet to what end? All it seems to do is suck in foreign construction workers, foreign steel, foreign money all for a slightly shinier new building when the underlying business for stockbroking and investment firms is withering away. The commercial property market was another bubble which has been pricked.

Sterling too was riding much higher than our trade and fiscal deficits justified - probably due to sucking in hot money from the Far East. Malaysian businessmen buying flats off-plan in London as no-brainer investments. Again another bubble has been burst and sterling is at a level which will boost our exporters and lead to job growth outside of London.

Brexit voters are getting what they voted for. A bright future lies ahead based on an economy not artificially inflated by unsustainable bubbles and ever increasing hordes of economic migrants.

The worst thing so far is Facebook posts from dopey thixsters claiming every over-60 stormed the beaches at Normandy and we should be grateful they're giving the Bosch what for yet again. It'll be they fought in the Napoleonic wars for us next.

Anyways, puns gone below $1.27, we'll see the price rises in supermarkets now, well before any claimed benefits appear - if at all

That's an interesting view point car wash and one I hadn't really considered.

It could be argued that many sectors seem to have been generally recession proof and have kept developing.

If the result of Brexit is as you say - more investment outside of London, a realignment of the housing and property markets and the ability to helperform exporters to trade outside the EU then we might be stronger in the end.

I was a remainer but I'm willing to make the best of it (and I haven't wet the bed since last week).

I was a Brexiter and i have wet the bed since last week so im not sure whether i need to log off or not.

PaddockRanger wrote:
Leadsom will be the second coming of Margaret Thatcher as she has already said that she loved the ground Thatcher walked on.

Alan wrote:
Remain supporter have their views despite losing out on a referendum that should never have been held. and we will continue to express them just like you express yours. Trouble is you dont like the truth just the lies peddled by the Brexit MPs feathering their own nests.

Nice myopic one sided view there span, because the Remain side played it straight down the middle didnt they?

If you dont like the idea of democracy, then may I suggest you consider moving to North Korea.

pbonnyman64 wrote:
People who work and deal in the financial world warned of the dangers of a Brexit, I think that they have more experience of financial matters and what they say should not be brushed aside as scare mongering or irrelevant.

In short its all Camerons fault. Its laughable to blame anyone else. He won the last general election on the promise of a referendum he then failed to get any meaningful concessions in negotiation with Europe he then along with his sidekick Osbourne failed to convince the public that it was better to stay. The buck starts and ends with him im afraid.

moose wrote:
Democracy is all about expressing ones opinion, which is every citizens right. To be told that maybe I should move to North Korea for expressing my opinion quite frankly is absurd.

spanblue wrote:
They had a vested interest though, and there was far too much of that on both sides. Moose is right, there were bloody liars on both sides of the campaign. The problems we're now going to have, and we are, I don't doubt it, have been a bit overblown. Big parts of those problems are going to be caused by the country having no leadership though, and things may just get a bit worse. There is absolutely no doubt that this country can make it in the outside world on our own, we might even be as good as we were in the EU from a fiscal point of view. The trouble as I see it is yet to come from the tory government, after their infighting is completed, there is no backstop now, when Leadsom (if she gets the job) decides there is to be no minimum wage paid to people working for small employers, who will stop her? Regardless of the fact that it obviously stifles growth and stops those smaller businesses recruiting more people, tory old ladies will think it is red tape being removed, and without EU law there's nothing to stop her doing it, because there is certainly no credible opposition, and it is one of her stated aims.

We are out, or coming out, I voted to stay in, I lost, I have accepted that and think we, as a country need to get on with it, and get something sorted out, at the moment there is no control, and we're looking rudderless and pretty ineffective really. No wonder the markets are heading downwards, what confidence can the city have in the current political situation?

Span. You and your fellow remain campaigners have had your say.....and you lost, under the democratic way the country is run.

Time for you to stop bleating and accept the fact you lost the vote. Banging on about it wont change the result.

Get over it.

Edited to add, maybe you should take a leaf out of Moorlad's book, as per the post above.

BelleVueBoy wrote: Stop being such a bedwetter.... even the most anti-european brexit campaigner knew there will be short term pain post decision... it is purely caused by uncertainty... once the plan becomes clear and negotiations take place then it will all calm down. Our economy is still fundamentally strong... that won't change in the medium term.

This is a long term project.... it is to give this country the opportunity to trade with the world.... it will take time to do those deals though. Interestingly several countries have already contacted us stating that they want to begin negotiation asap. Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Canada, and India.... the Speaker of the House of representatives in the US has urged America to begin trade negotiations asap. The problem is these things never get reported on the TV and in most media as they were massively pro-EU during the campaign, with a few exceptions. For example, the BBC led with a story of Easyjet moving staff to Europe... this was massively misleading as they made it sound like thousands would have to move... in reality it is just the legal office that will move so that they are technically seen as being based in the EU... we are talking about a handful of jobs. At the same time Huawei confirmed that they will still go ahead with their 1.3 billion pound investment in the UK despite the brexit vote...not even a mention on the BBC.

Although there has been an impact to currency that really isn't such a bad thing... yes your two weeks in Benidorm may cost you an extra 50 quid but in the grand scheme of things that isn't much of an issue. The massive positive is that our exports are now more competitive which will drive export sales.

Pretty much everybody who voted leave knew there would be a few years of slower growth and that it will take us time to negotiate a new deal with the EU and set up deals with other economies around the world.... but the longer term benefits are huge. WE get to make our own legal and political decisions, we get to make business easier by removing huge amounts of red tape, we have the freedom to set our own taxation levels, we get to trade with some massive markets that we would never be able to sell to in the EU, we get to continue having our own armed services that can be deployed in the interests of this country, we get to control the numbers and skill levels of migrants entering the country,.... a bit of short term pain is well worth that for me. Others may disagree. This is a time for us to hold our nerve as a country and ensure we get the negotiated deal with the EU that we want... because one thing is absolutely certain, the EU can't afford not to do a deal, and the longer we wait without triggering article 50 the more the pressure comes on their governments... cracks are already beginning to appear and the powerful German car industry is already becoming a big influencer on Merkle. She needs to do a deal for her own political future, with an election looming in Germany in the not too distant future. Personally I don't give a toss that the housing market is down a bit.... the price of houses is ridiculous in this country and we could do with a fall in house prices to allow young people to get access to the housing market.

edited to add link
moneyweek.com/the-uks-potential-new-trade-agreements/

There should never have been a referendum really.

99.9% of the people voted with absolutely no idea what they were voting for.

You can see why Germany have banned referendums (although that might have had something to do with Hitler!).

nobbyblue wrote: On that basis we should never have a national election as 99.9% of people have no real idea what they are voting for then either. Whilst the people don't know every detail of what they are voting for they are capable of identifying general themes on either side of the argument and coming to a decision on that basis.... which is exactly what happened. The remain side constantly saying that the leavers didn't understand the argument is condescending, elitist BS. You don't need to know every detail to know that you want to control migration numbers, or want our national government to make important decisions about this country rather than a Brussels eurocrat.

30+% of the electorate voted in the 2014 European Parliamentary Elections, 60+% couldn't give a toss - they can now!!!
30+% of the electorate didn't vote in the 2015 General Election, presumably they couldn't give a toss as well - they can now!!!
Cameron got in with just over 30% of the vote, he gave us the referendum, he lost, and all of a sudden everyone gives a toss!
I'm up to my neck in foo king dummies hoyed out of prams, it's called democracy, even by 2% - every vote counts as long as you can be arsed to vote. I would be interested to see what percentage of the under 30's voted in either the European Parliamentary Elections or the General Election and I bet I wouldn't be wrong!

spanblue wrote:
Aye that.ll be the same tw ats who who work in the financial world whove caused all the problems for the past 10 years and who despite actions supposedly being taken to stop them have seen the bonuses get bigger and bigger.

Financial service jobs are well paid because 'they could put their hand in the till'

Consider this:
What use are financial services if you have nothing to invest in apart from other financial services

As the investment in the declining British industrial market grows ever smaller, the investment in foreign and international companies increases

Well here we go again can the remainers not just get over it and stop behaving like spoiled little brats.But on a positive note for me before the referendum i was thinking of selling out of the FTSE until it settled down i am now glad i didnt .Some of the companys i hold shares in get there income in Dollars so they have risen giving me a nice profit.The trouble with these remainers they think it will be overnight when we see the benifits of Brexit but this will take a few years of hard slog.Anyways its only the rich who are making the noise about brexit .Everyone else have come to terms with it as they say if youve never ad it you dont miss it .

Most of what I've seen so far has been a self fulfilling prophecy. Most traders bet on it being a remain win and had to quickly adjust when Brexit won. Thus the immediate slump of the FTSE. It has since bounced back higher with the aid of the BofE. Personally I thought it would be a larger victory to Brexit.
What gets me is the student who organised the protest in London ranting then comes up with "democracy will win through". Er it has, we are leaving because of it.
They blame the old for taking away their future. Utter tosh. The old provided them with the chance of a future. Having seen Britain before the problems the EU created they have judged that we can do a better job ourselves and not relying on the Mandlesons and Kinnocks of the world.

The EU will never understand the populous because they are isolated from them with mega money and are surrounded by back slapping adulating yes men. Any decisions they make will be on the behalf of international companies. Tusk has come closest to being in touch but he is new to the job. It comes across like FIFA and EUFA. Platini's spacker idea of playing the Euros across the whole of Europe. Fine if you get airline tickets on expenses like he does but bloody expensive for travelling fans.

As Moorlad has said the sooner we have a leader and decide on a path the better. Remove the uncertainty and instigate the plan the markets will recover.

CumbrianView wrote:
To be fair, most of the people that I know that voted to remain, myself included, were very much uncertain that there would be benefits, overnight or otherwise, to leaving - hence why we voted to remain. If I thought there would have been benefits overnight, or indeed guaranteed benefits in the medium term then I may well have voted to leave.

Prices Going Up
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36722155
As a consequence of sterling going down - now 14%.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36721689
More property funds close withdrawals
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-36686176
As for the some of the comments above regarding house price falls being a good thing, go tell that to the millions of people who might find themselves in negative equity. Or to yourself when your pension falls.
And also bear in mind that just because prices fall that houses will not become more accessible affordable to young people. They might not as the lenders may become more risk averse and lend/price accordingly.
And whilst we would all like an economy less reliant on the housing market and related credit, the reality is that's what we have.....

I'm not going to post again about this. I do accept the result. I hope that some of you who voted out will similarly accept the consequences of your own actions as people start to lose their jobs...... and those with some decency might acknowledge that the ridicule which was poured on people as scaremongers was wrong.

BelleVueBoy wrote:
I may be in negative equity but guess what. I don't care as I'm buying my house to actually live in until I pay the rest of my mortgage. Negative equity is another myth. If your moving and your house is worth say 10% less and the house you want to buy is also 10% less then you may even gain if your upsizing.

well nice for you. You maybe have a secure job but many people (typically often younger folk with families who have stretched themselves) find they have to move not necessarily out of own choice. For a job or other reason and then can't as the mortgage is more than the house value.
Negative equity is very different from just getter smaller sale proceeds. You have no sale proceeds and probably no sale if in neg equity.

I don’t think anyone is surprised there has been some negative feedback is there? We were told that would happen.


For goods rising in prices these are imported consumer goods so it is fairly obvious if sterling falls then the these will increase in value. They are also avoidable costs so if people are worried about money they can make a phone or computer last longer. More valid will be the impact on unavoidable costs such as council tax or medicine. How many councils will crank up council tax and blame it on the exit?


If sterling falls it makes imports more expensive and exports cheaper abroad so in principle that is good. However any price cuts may be balanced out by foreign tariffs so the effect across the board is probably zero. One side effect will be that economic migrants will leave Britain and go somewhere more profitable


For property prices in London we would expect to see a sharp fall as foreign owners scramble to sell assets which are declining in value and which are also losing value for them due to the sterling fall. Once the market bottoms out then houses become cheap because of the value fall and sterling fall so foreign money will come back.


For Carlisle I would expect most people moving into the area are returning retirees so in the short fall demand for houses will fall from top end £1m houses to £0.5m, when the London market returns to normal then demand at the top end will pick up.


If house prices fall then they will be easier to afford for first time buyers as long as salaries don’t fall. The Government has finally addressed the housing issue and is currently building more than the annual demand so that should push prices down but that is nothing to do with Europe.


Ultimately I don’t think anything will happen at all. Gove has already said why negotiate new trade agreements when the old ones still exist. May has talked about a Norway+ agreement, as Norway is deeper in the EU than the UK we may end up closer to Europe, not further away

BelleVueBoy wrote:
Interesting where you get your sources of information

So that's one bloated, undemocratic institution full of left wing, politically correct wasters supporting another bloated, undemocratic institution full of left wing, politically correct wasters.

We should bin them next.

Dentonholmersimpson wrote:
The right labels the beeb and the EU as 'left-wing', whilst the left labels both as 'right-wing'.

Neither are valid positions, and the cumulative contributions of such rhetoric is nothing, other than to demonstrate the political bias of the poster.

Kangshung wrote:
I take it back, they are just bloated, undemocratic institutions full of politically correct wasters.

Dentonholmersimpson wrote:
This any better?
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0edeab6c-4325-11e6-b2...d.html#axzz4DefKFQOf
Or will only the Sun or the Express or the Mail do? They do only print the truth after all...

BelleVueBoy wrote:
For somebody who was not going to post again on this topic, you have done so twice.

But don't forget, only leavers bullshit.

Only to respond to shit.

BelleVueBoy wrote:
Typically humility from the losing side.

We're all on the losing side.
As always though it will be the poorest people and poorest regions who suffer most.

The vast majority of people do not care about FTSE, gilts, bonds etc. The only people interested in those will be the 'money men' who stand to lose their bonuses etc. So what if your shopping goes up by a tenner or so, your fortnight in Benidorm costs 50 quid more this year. People probably won't even notice.
Wonder why people didn't believe the 'experts' that tied us into ERM, failed to forecast the 2008 crash caused by banks irresponsible lending, the various mis selling scandals etc etc. Where's George Osborne's emergency budget? What happened to the claim that households were going to be £xx worse off per year? All the focus is on the £350 million a week for NHS. Anybody with any sense could see that it did not say that all of that would be spent on NHS,especially by people that couldn't even effect how it was spent.

Students claiming that their future has been ruined by the older generation.Well,who would have thought they would be complaining about the older generation? Are we suddenly going to stop people going abroad? No. Are we suddenly going to stop people coming into Britain? No. Is the Union going to break up? No.

High Street wrote:
Are you going to pay me my tenner a week then?

As for the UK not breaking up there's a majority for independence in Scotland now. All sanity says they'll be worse off but there's some masochistic streak that says they can succeed by telling their biggest trading partner to [censored] off... Déjà vu...

High Street wrote: ..................................................................................
Are we suddenly going to stop people going abroad? Actually yes when we Leave EU and UK citizens lose Free Movement.
Are we suddenly going to stop people coming in? Er yes. Where have you been!
Is the Union going to break up? Er very good chance.
You forget that all the other crises you mention were not planned or self inflicted like this one. This time, we knew what was going to happen if we left. This time the experts were almost unanimous on the huge financial uncertainty this would cause.
They were derided as scaremongers.
People probably will be significantly worse off and the budget will be coming.
Also we are getting almost certainly the most right wing government post WW2 with no opposition.

BelleVueBoy wrote:
So what part of the EU has America been in for the last 15 years? I managed to go there several times as have many others. I bet Mickey Mouse is shitting himself. BTW you still arent doing very well not posting on this thread.

BelleVueBoy wrote:

Yet more bullshitting scare tactics.

moose wrote:
Come on Moose you surely cant be suggesting Turkey isnt in the EU either. How do people manage to get to all those holiday resorts if we arent free to travel?

There is the people who voted out ,new the short term consequences,were prepared to suffer them for an ultimate long term gain. I have not an issue with that. For the others who are now wishing they had voted to stay in because of what is now happening well it's to late , you will have to suffer like the rest of us.
It does annoy me that I have now to pay 14 percent more for my holiday to Greece in 3 weeks,that's over £300 ,It does annoy me that I will shortly have to pay around £50 a ,a month more for my petrol and it does frustrate me that I cannot see any real benefit long or short term.

BelleVueBoy wrote: Everybody knew that there would be an economic consequence of a brexit vote in the short term due to the uncertainty in the market... pointing out what has happened over the first two weeks since brexit vote just points out what everybody knew anyway. What is important is the long term prospects for the economy and the longer term boom that is likely to happen once the new trade deals with the rest of the world have been finalised. This will take time to start to come through but when it does we will be in a much better position as an independent country than being restricted to the tiny free trade market that the EU will have. Short term pain for long term gain.

People are scared of change. These experts also fuel the fire. The pound, facts and figures were always going to drop. No denying that from either campaign. The main aim is the long term goal it is viewed we will be better off. The whole point on the EU is to give every country a level playing ground with exports and imports. Now for the more well off nations and bigger businesses this actually hinders their growth. Thats why there was a lot of businesses supporting leaving. Become more competitive around the world.

One thing that annoyed me about the remain camp is the way they feel that they are the highly educated and Brexit voters were un educated, working class/jobless, racist etc etc.

This was fuelled by the media, BBC even followed suit, interviewing lecturers for the remain and students etc then interviewing a guy with tear tattoos rough as, in Sunderland to draw their comparisons.

I find it funny that the highly educated then pointed to that the older generation robbed their future. The stats of percentage done by a YouGov poll confirms this?
The YouGov poll was taken the day of the vote. It was based on 1600 people out of 46 million. Does this give a fair reflection to allow the remain camp to make these statements? Just to also confirm the same poll had a remain win by 2 points, we all know how solid that Poll was.

seabird wrote:
Compared to when? Because fuel prices have been on the rise since February, not since 2 weeks ago.

BelleVueBoy wrote: Nobody HAS to move.... they may choose to move for a job but they don't have to.... plus they could always rent their property out and rent a property in the new area. We all have a responsibility to live within our means. My mother grew up in a house with 7 kids in one bedroom... and yet she turned into a fully functioning adult. The plus side of the brexit for housing is that first time buyers... often the young people that you talked about, will be able to afford to buy... and once they buy the continuing low interest rate will allow them to pay off their mortgage at the lowest rate in history. For every one person who truly loses out with negative equity 100 will gain from reduced prices and lower mortgage repayments.