TOPIC: Moo Bar

Seems to be a bit of a ruckus going on? Was in the other week and was disappointed, big reduction in range etc.

From their Facebook page:

Moo Bar Carlisle would like to apologise on behalf of Michael Tiffin of Walton Goodland estate agents for their errors this week.

In the early hours of Monday morning, a Penfold type character under the cover of darkness and assisted by a danger-mouse locksmith entered into 5 Devonshire street and changed the locks. This, he will learn to his detriment, was a mistake.

Let me take you back a few months to a time when Carlisle was soggy.

Moo Bar Suffered a massive financial set back at Christmas of 2015, when our festive trade was destroyed by the much documented Carlisle flooding. This compounded the problems we already had caused by a late opening and an over spend on the build (also caused by the landlord not willing to make good structural issues we discovered).

To date we have got back on our feet, solved the cellar cooling issue (it's a bloody big cellar with a lot of beer to manage, so it took us a bit to build the right system!) and got back onto an (almost) even footing.

Over the last few weeks we have paid £12,556 against the rent and rental arrears caused by the floods. Michael Tiffin from Walton Goodland has , bizarrely, sent it all back. How many landlords do you know that would actively request a middle man such as 'tiff to return rent? We can only assume another agenda is at play.

We have heard indirectly and allegedly, that other operators have been offered the lease (that is still ours) at a price premium over and above what we pay, based on the investment and improvements Moo Bar has made to the structure and cosmetics of the building.

We also apologise to local bands who play gigs at moo and have in good faith left their equipment in the building . We have requested access to retrieve your belongings for your commitments this week but this has been denied.

We are currently seeking an injunction in the crown courts that will see your supply of real ale and great craft beers resumed, and thank you for your patience.

For now, if you hop on a train to Penrith, our Moo there will be happy to accommodate you and we may even give you a free beer by way of compensating you for your train fair!

The range of drink has been poor for months, they seemed to move away from real ale and concentrate more on craft keg and bottled beers for a while but even these seem to of reduced in recent weeks. Possible the cellar issues detailed in the post were partly the reason behind this. It's a shame as was a good addition to the bar scene and something a bit different especially for Devonshire Street.

It certainly is a different scene beer that smells and tastes of vomit and a clientele that would never dream of using deodorant

They also own/run the Shepherds at Melmerby (between Penrith and Alston). Whilst the owner of the Moo's was off work with a cancer scare it is alleged that the manager of the Shepherds stole £13K in takings. (This was all publicised by Moo Bars with a series of Tweets, so nothing made up by me). This was never proven as I suspect the books had been cooked and the manager got away with it. The effect though seriously knackered the cash flow and Moo in Penrith even resorted to selling Tirril Beer for a while (did somebody mention vomit). Quite a few breweries had to wait for money and we don't get any Hawkshead or Hardknott beers now. However, the last 2-3 months have been back on track and Penrith Moo has been great for craft beer and ales at a good price, nearly always 9 on.
We were in Carlisle Moo last weekend and yes it does smell a bit, however the range was better (8 cask, 5 keg) than the time before (maybe 6 weeks ago) when the range was poor. I hope they get it sorted, despite not knowing the full story - all I care about is a decent pint!!

Just asking for bother like starting a thread like this. Meant to be a football board, already got stuff on this thread that some people may say is crap.

More like a gossip board at times!

Love Moo Bar and the crew that run it and will be a lost soul without it but there's a lot about this that troubles me a bit. All of those things come back to the fact that the owner can't and shouldn't rely on other people subsidising his business. Over £12k in rent and rent arrears is a [censored] of a lot of money regardless of the cause and as tragic as the floods were this doesn't mean that you can stop paying your bills and continue as normal and expect others to sub you. Lots of tweets over the last few months from small breweries chasing payment too and as a punter this makes me a bit uneasy to be frank.

At the end of the day if the owner can't pay his bills regularly regardless of the circumstances then he needs to look at his business model - you can't just stop paying and blame the floods can you?

I agree Moylesey. It seems a bit weird that they are complaining about the antics of the landlord and yet freely admit they are way behind with rent.

I've only been in a couple of times - I'm a big real ale fan but not really when out in town. Have to say I've not been that impressed either with the beer or the condition of the bar.

I also might be missing something here but can they really blame the floods for damaging trade. I know it was the run up to Christmas but did it directly affect them that badly ornis it just a smokescreen for poor sales generally?

If business had been affected over Christmas that much you'd think it would be across the board. Haven't heard of many other pubs/bars closing because of it ?

There is a petition on-line if anyone is interested in supporting them ....
www.change.org/p/walton-goodland-keep-mo...&utm;_medium=copylink

I think the beer selection went down,as companies would no longer supply them. They were hoping to open one on the station but that 'fell through' though it may be back on,in partnership with a brewery.

Signed. Although the latest beer selection on Friday afternoon was a bit iffy to say the least.

I hate businesses who don't pay their way.. Sounds like its always somebody else's fault.

nobbyblue wrote:
Same here, they complain about their landlord and then quietly slip in that they were £12k behind in their rent.

During that time the landlord will still have had to pay any mortgage they had on the property. Regardless of whether they tried to pay it late, it's perfectly reasonable for the landlord to want rid of an unreliable tenant.

I agree - there is nothing worse. However I see a business that is still in its early years. From the original post you can see that they had to overspend to sort the building out and it would seem they have had financial difficulties and are trying to catch up. I don't know the full story, but I would rather they remained if the alternative is a coffee shop.

It aint rocket science, if a landlord/letting agent is not getting paid rent, then hears that suppliers are also not getting paid he smells trouble, he's not wrong!

I don't know the ins and outs of Moo bar but i have come across numerous businesses over the years who have a total disregard for people they owe money to and on some occasions think it's just business!

No it f***ing isn't!

Gundog wrote: Fair enough, I only know part of the story and you probably don't want to spill the beans on here...

Bit strange that according to stuff on here the problems they've had have occurred due to a dodgy member of staff getting away with 13k (but never being proven) to bad sales due to the floods.

Not doing the moo too many favours this thread.

Well Rich, everything being discussed has been publicised by Moo Bar themselves so I don't thing your final point is all that valid. Anyway, I thought you didn't care for topics about gossip

Lol, quite interesting to be honest now!

See in your earlier post when you said this:
"Quite a few breweries had to wait for money and we don't get any Hawkshead or Hardknott now", who are "we"?

who are "we"?

The customers?

We say "we" about Carlisle United as well but sadly we're only the people who pay to be there too

Hmmm, sounded like a slip up as he seems to know a lot about it all and pushed the petition.

England under 19s are on anyway.

Ha ha, wrong end of the stick Rich. I am a regular in The Moo at Penrith and just like my ale. I do know the owner though and am happy to support him. Regardless of what may be going on behind the scenes. He has had a rough ride lately to be fair. I didn't actually know until now that he was only the tenant of the building at Carlisle. They spent months refurbishing the place to get it in shape, I am not surprised if he has run up some debt.
To add to this he had some health issue last year and from what I gather was diagnosed with cancer by Carlisle, I would imagine that would knock anyone for 6. He was referred to Newcastle for treatment to be told no, its not cancer!!
So yes, I have jumped on a thread that was already created to get behind them. I urge anyone who support local business, enterprising young people and decent beer to do the same

See the news and star have basically read this thread and put it on their site now!

Don't talk rubbish Dickie. Did you miss the bit at the start that said "A spokesman for the bar said".....
Or just maybe everything I put was correct after all and the "spokesman" decided to just confirm it all to satisfy you Sherlock...

If the guy in genuinely having a rough patch that is temporary, then he should be given a leg up. That's what good suppliers do..........

GingerBalls wrote:
Maybe it was, are you the spokesman?!

Away from this ginger, what's your top three ale recommendations in the Penrith branch? Through there in a few weeks and will try them.

The best 3 ale pubs at present are Moo Bar, The Royal (3 ales) and by then the Dockray Hall will be open (used to be the Gloucester Arms). That place has been refurbished and is owned by The Kirkstile Inn - expecting Cumbrian Legendary Ales on.
I don't recommend the Wetherspoons, unfortunately it has the worst ale selection of any spoons on the planet...

Just meant in moo to be honest. Royal used to be my local like. Seen the Gloucester was re opening, Two Lions the best ever and a pint of Boddies for 1.30!

I bet we know each other!
The Moo in Penrith has no permanent ales, usually 6 guest ales. Pilsner Urquell on tap normally, 3 guest keg beers and a keg cider like Stowford Press.
From what I gather the Moo Carlisle injunction case took place today. Should know more tomorrow.

I.d be interested to know at what stage he made the payment to the landlords that was returned because if it was well before they agents broke in and they returned the cheque then they have broken the lease and will be liable to sued for interuption of business which could well amount to a damm site more than just writing off the 12k that was owed to them.

I know hes been ill but this guy doesnt really seem to be au fait with how the world of pubs work away from the selling of Ale. How do you let someone who just nicked 13k from your buisness just get away with it hell i.ve had light fingered managers strung up by their balls for a lot less than that. A useful tool i find when employing them is to get their parents names and addresses and check them out [192 dot com is your best friend. ] as they might run off and hide but their parents are a lot less likely to.do that.

Do you still run boozers round Lancs Barry?

GingerBalls wrote:
From the newspaper story doesn't sound like they will have much luck. Walton Goodland seem to manage a lot of commercial property in Carlisle I can't see that they would do it unless they were right.
Speaking with a few people it seems Moo Bar has annoyed a few of the other operators on Devonshire Street as they believe that it isn't in keeping with the other bars on the street and is putting people off visiting. I would suggest it's more that the £4.90pint in some of the other bars is what is putting people off visiting them.

mattcufc wrote:
Aye you canna beat the Caledonian at £2.15 for a pint of the amber nectar!

I think the fact that it's different should be seen as a positive. You can go in any of three or four bars on Devonshire street and be in any one of them. At least Moo is quite clearly different and aiming at a different crowd.

I'd agree that the prices on DS are extortionate - the last zebra included.

Must be some kind of market for them mind or they wouldn't still be running surely?

I'd rather spend an afternoon in The Cumberland than The Last Zebra.

Thin White Duke by far the best on there. Reasonable priced good quality food means you don't mind paying a little more for your beer and service is always friendly.

Not sure about Le Gall never been in for years, know they had a run in with Moo Bar last year about their music and pavement licence or lack of should I say.

Hell Below & Monsters have their own crowd who don't mind paying that bit more if it means they can Check In and show a few photos of the cocktails on Instagram.

Walked up Devonshire street on Saturday afternoon and was certainly a decent number of people in all the bars so plenty of people obviously don't mind paying these prices.

Double vodka and lemonade (for me) and a Bailey's (for her) late one night in Open Mind recently.

£11.

Looking promising for them ...
www.facebook.com/Moobarcarlisle/
Reet! Hear me now!
We want to thank massively the good people of Carlisle for being so understanding and supportive and for signing the petition, which we will take to the judge. But more of that in a minute, have patience, like.
Also a massive thanks to the Moo Crew who've been out of work this week whist we fight the injustice. If you see them out and about, please buy them a pint! We'll be putting on some beers for you next week!
Also thanks to the Carlisle County Court Judges and staff (some of whom have had to endure Nyj on many occasions this week!)
The courts and court staff are a credit to Carlisle!
We have a hearing for an injunction on Monday. We feel we have the right to re-enter the building now, but rightfully respect the legal process. Next week we will get this injunction and reclaim Moo!
Thanks all who've signed the petition, only 15% of petitions get more than 50 signatures- so you've all smashed this out of the park. (Nyj has wept at your kind words on many occasions now, we're going to have to buy some more tissues!)
Please be patient, enjoy the beers you have in this great town (the Nappa, thin white duke, the Howard and the 'spoons to name just 4 or head to monkhill or the spinners arms! and we'll be back next week for one mutha of a moo party!
Massive love and thanks people of Carlisle
Moo!

Next week we will get this injunction and reclaim Moo!

They wouldna be getting in if I was the judge.

nobbyblue wrote:
Presumably the judge gets to know all of the facts though Nobby??

Does anybody else think he sounds like a right precious tw at

And is there some sort of competition going on for who can charge the most for a pint and have the naffest name for your bar.

What happened to shots for a pound and 3 bottles for a fiver ?

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
Cheap peeve in Moo Bar mate and the guy is a top bloke. Have you never been?

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: Having a different name makes you stand out doesn't it.

Not everybody wants rank shots of aftershock and 3 bottles of piss water regardless of the price.

It's good to have a variety, obviously appreciated by the people of Carlisle or they'd all be shut.

For me it's great because it means more and more pubs/bars selling real ale and craft beers.

I know where all of the pubs he mentioned are apart from the Nappa, where's that ?

Kings Head I'd guess.

DeckchairBlue wrote:
But thats the whole point isnt it they do shut on a very regular basis never known a place where more bars open up and go bust in such a short time.

OldCarliol wrote:
Top bloke or not hes on a loser here and there are way better if less orthodox ways of getting what hes after that the route hes gone down and as i said if he was on solid ground in that hed paid the 12k over before the eviction process started hed of been much better hitting them with a claim for 100k for them breaking the lease and the interuption to his business i.m sure that will of focused their minds a bit more than having to send a solicitor to represent them in the county court on Monday.