TOPIC: OT , Corbyn.

This leadership election has started to interest me even though I'm not a labour voter. I was at Kendal calling the other week and Billy Bragg was giving it his best shot at extolling Mr Corbyn's virtues, wrong place for this sort of thing imo but, what does everyone else think? Corbyn is a little controversial in some of his ideals but basically he wants a return to the left ( further than red Ed ) and what might be seen as traditional socialism, will this make the Labour party more or less electable? Is traditional socialism affordable in Britain now? This would seem to be aimed at getting the working class voting labour again, will it? Is there really a working class left in britain? or has society changed to a point where those who were once thought of as working class, are now middle class whether they like it or not? If Labour move further left, will they regain seats in Scotland or has that boat sailed with the rise of the SNP? It's quite clear that new labour is done and they have to re invent somehow but is a swing left the way?

I'm interested to know what others think.

These things tend to go in cycles. I recall Labour in the eighties under Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock being unelectable, much as the Tories were in the ninetes/early noughties.

As for the four candidates, I don't think the lot of them mashed together would amount to much. At least Corbyn seems to be sincere in his beliefs. The others are just desperate for power and personally I cannot think of a single question to which Mrs Ed Balls is the answer.

I consider myself working class but would never vote Labour, as they don't represent my views. And the last time they tried to reinvent themselves, we ended up with Blair and New Labour. Which turned out well.

Michael Foot was very electable, Mrs Thatcher decided to fight a war to whip up a bit of patriotism which carried her over the line in 83.
As for Corbyn, a lot of the stuff he says connects with people. Apparently hundreds were unable to get into his meeting in Liverpool. He currently has a 32 point lead over Burnham. Lots of tories are kidding themselves that the current divisions in Labour will be fatal, but when we get around to discussing Europe, they may find themselves in a spot of bother themselves.

Interesting stuff. There is an anti austerity swell evolving and seemingly gaining momentum. Can't say how it will all turn out but imo the those other than Corbyn, are all Oxford Uni PPP types that are ruining British politics. Mrs Ed Balls would be a prime example. I think Corbyn has the undoubted conviction, which I applaud, but will his socialist views be able to uphold the UK financial economy, ie controlling exchange and inflation rates, for example.

I wont be voting for him. Mainly because hes a Republican whereas im a Monarchist.

I think the reason he is popular is partly the reason UKIP and the SNP are popular. He offers a choice thats not just the same old, centrist, Oxbridge PPE career politicians. People are sick of bland middle ground jobsworths arguing over minor details. When someone comes along who is different and passionate about what they believe in, then its like a breath of fresh air. Its back to stand for what you believe in, not find out what you think will get you elected and then stand for that.

Personally, i like some of his ideas such as re-nationalising the railways and perhaps the energy companies. Im also really pleased he has brought up EU membership on the left as well. Its time people remembered that being anti-EU is not a UKIP exclusive position, but was actually a key policy of the left for years before Blair came along. Not so keen on handing the Falklands back to Argentina, getting rid of nuclear weapons or cosying up to Irish Republicanism though.

The problem he has is that Labour lost the last election based on their lack of economic credibility in the voters eyes. Cant see Corbyn winning that back and so i cant see how he could win a general election.

The best bit about the whole thing is watching the likes Blair and Jack Straw squirm as they realise that New Labour is being consigned to the dustbin.

I remember Mervyn Day upon being sacked and replaced as manager by Knighton said - "the chairman has got exactly the manager he deserves". If the stupid buggers elect Corbin same applies. Cameron will be laughing his cock off!

I do agree that Corbyn has strong principles which he will do everything to uphold unlike the power hungry, public school hypocrites Balls, Milliband, etc who crave the power over the socialist ideal. Could a left wing Labour govt handle the economy ? I would be very worried by that prospect!
As for austerity, I'm not wealthy by any means, I have wife who works, two kids, mortgage, etc but apart from rises in fuel costs and weekly shop, both of which seem to have decreased, Ive not felt any effect of the austerity measures. I'm sure there are many that have but that there are many like me who haven't, it's about managing what you've got and cutting your cloth accordingly. ( and I've done that before following redundancy)

Firstly I disagree Michael Foot was unelectable. We had just recovered from the winter of discontent and his policies wanted to take us back there.

Back onto the Corbyn subject. Many are taken by his honesty and convictions. I applaud him for that but his ideas of nationalising industries concerns me.
State run industry doesn't work. poor practice, inefficient no incentive to improve products, lets not forget a lack of investment at the governments whim. Just look at what happened on the railways. shoddy rolling stock, line closures and cut back after cutback to the point of it being unsafe.

Mining. the pit closure that kick started the minors strike in the early 80's had lost over £2m that year alone. a huge amount in those days.

All this puts onus onto the taxpayer to bail them out like British Leyland was.

All in all, like all the rest of the parties there is a distinct lack of credible candidates to be party leaders. All very lightweight and no gravitas. Corbyn is if nothing else more believable than the other wet blankets.

Blues86 wrote:
This is the compromise that Blair et all were prepared to make, water the socialism down=get into power. Hypocrites, they know that Corbyn will appeal to those who are strong socialists but they know it won't win an election!

I'll preface this by saying i've always voted Labour but not sure I could vote for Corbyn........

But all these Labour grandee's crawling out of the woodwork saying how he would destroy Labour is doing my nut in. The need to get it through their thick skulls that if it's what the voters want (which is increasingly appearing likely) then he will best represent the party. Tony Blair popping up and telling everyone how they've got it all wrong and he knows better is boiling my piss. The rest of them too, they right royally fucked up last time and then they come out of the woodwork telling the rank and file how it would be so bad for the party - not a word about gold reserves or wars in Iraq or any of the other multitude of [censored] ups on their watch. THAT WAS BAD FOR THE PARTY.

Anyway, it's nice for a change to see an honest, conviction led politician especially in these days of career politicans. At least with Corbyn you'll get a straight answer to a straight question, even if it's not a popular answer. How many other politicians can you say that about?

Corbyn does have conviction, I'll give him that but his views are so extreme he is nigh on a communist, he even has a column in The Morning Star ffs.
If he gets in then that's Labour off the agenda as far as government is concerned for quite a while, not a bad prospect in my eyes mind.

Corbyn is extremely popular with traditional Labour party activists. However that isn't enough to win a General Election. After the forthcoming boundary changes which will give the Tories a 20 seat advantage, for Labour to have any chance of forming a government again they have to appeal to the middle ground. It's all very well piling up votes in Labour strongholds like the Northern industrial towns but if they can't win seats like Carlisle then unless the SNP implodes they face an impossible task to win a majority in any future election.

Labour has the choice between a popular leader who would always be in opposition or a bland Blairite who might offer some chance of future electoral success. Serves them right.

Not necessarily. Times are a changing ( ref BD) we shall see.

Nearly 2/3 rds of the UK voted for left wing parties at the last election only the first past post system gets the Tories elected and why people think socialism is some evil virus that will bring the country to it's knees baffles me

I wouldn't class New Labour or the Lib Dems as left wing parties. They support centre ground neo-liberal policies. Its more like they are left of centre to the Torys right of centre. But its still the centre.

It will be interesting to see if Corbyn wins whether he will make it to the 2020 election as leader. I have my doubts. I wouldnt be suprised to see him serve a couple of years before standing down. Not just because of his electability, or perceived lack of it, but also because by 2020 he will be 71. That would make him the oldest person to ever become PM (for the first time) in the country's history. You have to go back to Churchill's second stint from 1951-55 to find someone older than Corbyn would be on his first day in office.

As far as I can remember the only nationalised industry to make money was our own State Management Scheme. Sold off far too soon in my opinion

' public school hypocrites Balls, Milliband, '

The Millibands went to Haverstock Comprehensive in Chalk Farm, Bruntonpasty.

Still, don't let the facts stand in the way of your prejudice.

Personally I don't agree with a single thing that Corbyn says, however I have far more respect for him than the other three cardboard cut out identikit politicians, as at least he has principles and is prepared to stand up for them instead of just trying to be a polished, centre ground robot.

Interesting to see the outright panic amongst the Labour party MPs and Campbell, as they realise that now the membership get the vote, they can no longer control things like before. They're so out of touch with their own members' views that it's embarrassing.

carwash wrote: You highlight the main problem they have. Do they attempt to once again become a truly socialist party, never regain power, but be able to stay they are true to their principles or, do they return to New Labour/tory lite and sacrifice the socialist principles they purport to hold in the pursuit of power?

Love the way he's getting under the skin of all these identikit w*nkers who infest the Labour party. Labour needs someone who can motivate the non-voters to get off their a*ses and vote. He may well be the man. Miliband was an absolute joke, identikit nobody and a walking PR disaster to boot. A fresh type of leader is needed.

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It should concern is all that the Tories are planning to change the rules yet again so that not only can they force Nuclear new builds and dumps on to us but also Fracking overruling any opposition.
So much for democracy.

It is an interesting situation. Despite voting conservative last time I actually quite like Corbyn... he is very clear what he believes in and sticks to those principles... he answers questions without being evasive and clearly does not give a toss about his image, as he resembles a wino who slept in a hedge. He is pretty much the opposite of the slick, media trained New Labour MP's.

There is a real dilema for Labour... do they go with Corbyn and give themselves a clear identity as a party, even if that means spending time as an opposition party. You could argue that they'd be a much more credible opposition party as a result. OR... do they continue to sacrifice their principles as a party in an attempt to get elected?

For me Corbyn is unelectable as Prime Minister as his policies will not appeal to middle England... this is the area where elections are normally decided. I like the man but would never consider voting for him. The truth is there just aren't enough socialist supporters in this country to win an election any more (I appreciate some will disagree with this).

At least they would have an ideology as a party and a direction, even if it wasn't popular enough to come to power. At the moment what the hell do they stand for as a party? They are a shambles who have sold their principles to try to grab power as a Tory lite party. But lets be clear... the revolution isn't coming... there is no way I can see a socialist party winning power in this country any time soon.

pacirv wrote: To be fair the were recently voted into power with a mandate to govern the country ... That is democracy.... do you expect them to call a referendum on every decision? Just because you don't agree with the decision or that the opposition doesn't manage to change policy, that doesn't mean it's not democracy.

I liked those stark black and white videos he did with Depeche Mode back in the eighties.

Strange that he appears to be unelectable in England, but in Scotland i think he'd go down a storm. Corbyn is the SNP's worst nightmare.

Labour may as well vote a chimp in, they ain't get anywhere near power for the foreseible future anyway. Thank feck!

My monies on a split and a new equally tosspottish party arriving on the scene in the next few years.

Did the electric. gas, and water boards all make a loss then?Makes you wonder why all those foreigners ended up buying them

Yeah Northumbrian but it's a pity that their mandaten turned out to be a pack of lies

feckwittery wrote: