TOPIC: Rooney/Charlton

They've both managed 49 goals for England, and both did it in 106 matches. Does Rooney get the recognition as a player, by football fans - not the media, he deserves. I imagine he's likely to play another 30 or 40 England games, and eclipse Charlton's record, but of course in those days there were no substitutes (or one at most) so no really cheap run ons for Charlton, and there were fewer Internationals played.

Is Rooney anywhere near as good as Charlton?

It's always difficult comparing eras however I tend to consider that Charlton was the better player. The reason, well for one thing he played in an era where common assault was often committed on players with referees turning a blind eye. Not sure that Rooney would have been able to cope with the agro. Charlton also scored his goals from midfield with a fearsome shot, anyone old enough to remember the old case balls will be able to understand how much of feat this was. And to top it off he was never sent off something Rooney can't claim.

I find it depressing that one day in the future I will have grandkids asking if I ever saw the great Wayne Rooney play. One of the most overrated players of his generation.

Lineker scored his 48 goals in only 80 games, and Jimmy Greaves got 44 in 57 games which is absolutely phenomenal. Michael Owen scored 40 in 80 games as well. I guess Rooney hasn't always been played as an out and out centre forward, but Christ, you'd have to go some to match Greaves.

And actually me saying the bit about the number of international games is wrong, I just was looking and see that Charlton's caps were achieved over 12 years and 32 days, Rooney's are over 11 years and 364 days so only really a month or so between them.

Two national heroes, 1 shags prostitutes and the other a ticket tout.

How proud are we ?

Pair of [censored].

Genuine coffee spitting moment there Alf, cheers, some even came out of my nose.

Alf. Hahahaha

Charlton was a lot better than Rooney will ever be

Charlton played and scored against the better sides in world football, whilst Rooney has scored against the likes of Macedonia, San Marino and fellow lowly ranked sides. I understand you can only score past who you play, but it tells a huge story that it took Rooney till last summer to score in a World Cup finals game.


The other problem with Rooney is, he was touted as the best thing since sliced bread before his euro 2004 debut. Too much pressure on his shoulders with too much expectation in him. He will be remembered as 1 of the best, but not a patch on charlton.



I'd love it if Rooney never got picked for England again, just to shh all those that have banged on about this record


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He's going to end up Manchester United's & England greatest ever goalscorers and yet some people still say he's Sh!te.

It doesn't make sense. Is it just because he's a scouser?

Where's he at on the Man Utd list Nobby? I imagine Charlton must still be ahead of him on that. Who else? Law, Violet, Giggs? Best? I don't really know too much about Man Utd to be honest.

Charlton 249
Law 237
Rooney 233

Now Dennis Law, he was a great player!

Moorlad wrote: He's currently 3rd on the list.
Charlton 249
Law 237
Rooney 233


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Charlton played 758 times, Law 404 & Rooney 484.

Well, I suppose his record stacks up well, he's mixing with some reasonable players there, I'd imagine Law scored his goals in fewer appearances than Rooney has.

Read my mind, cheers.

bluealf wrote:
You say " Shags Prostitutes" like that's a bad thing

2-0 up against W.Germany and Alf takes Bobby off (to save him for the Semi) Beckenbauer was released from his marking duties and given freedom to roam
2-3 W.Germany.

chopper wrote:
Not sure I agree with the bit about Charlton scoring against the world class sides.

Charlton scored against: Scotland, Portugal, Northern Ireland, Soviet Union, Italy, USA, Sweden, Luxembourg, Wales, Mexico, Argentina, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Yugoslavia, Spain and Colombia.

Who are the world class sides (at that time) from that lot? Italy and Argentina only for me.

Rooney has scored against Argentina, Holland and Brazil.

Also 22 of Charlton's goals came in friendlies (36 if you count the home internationals)

Only 14 for Rooney.

Interesting that Rooney has played considerably fewer minutes during his England career so far – 7,937 compared to Sir Bobby's 9,435. The difference of 1,498 adds up to 16.6 matches. (Just off the top me head like!)

While I would agree that Charlton was probably a better player than Rooney (not that I'm old enough to have seen him play) the usual guff about Rooney scoring easy goals compared to the greats of yesteryear gets trawled out once again.

Charlton scored 22 goals in friendlies and a further 16 in the Home Championships. Only 11 of his goals (5 of which were against Luxembourg!) came in major championships or qualifiers.
Rooney on the other hand has scored 14 goals in friendless with the other 35 being in competitive fixtures.
Charlton's record at finals tournaments is superior and he has won the world cup but Rooney has scored plenty of goals in tough matches.

Jimmy Greaves on the other hand managed one goal against a decent side in a competitive match (Argentina at the 62 World Cup) during his entire international career....

nobbyblue wrote:
That must be the substitute thing I mentioned earlier. When Charlton played there weren't as many substitutes allowed (sometimes none at all), so players weren't rested midway through games, can't remember the rules for friendlies (it's all a long time ago to be honest), but I can't imagine Charlton used as a sub even early in his career.

Turnbull wrote:
I looked at Greaves goals before for England and did think not many stand out as being against class opposition in a crack competition.

Can only hope ligament goes after 10 seconds and never plays again he is the most overrated sportsman in the country there is 20 stone dart players with more athleticism

Idiot.

This has been an enlightening thread and doesn't need that sort of thing.

How many of these can you say are/were at the time a great side


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I don't think he asks who to play against. How many games has he played against the great teams? How many great teams have there been since his debut? Spain, Germany..eeerm

Quite simple for me,

Pick a greatest England 11 or Man.U. 11 Charlton would be in both, Rooney would be in neither.

nobbyblue wrote:
No, it's because he's sh!te.

It's always a good laugh this one. Ha, ha bloody brilliant.

Moorlad wrote:
Could be wrong but I've got a feeling that a lot of Linekar's goals were scored in games where he was the only England scorer - ie goals that really counted. A lot in competitive fixtures as well - I'm assuming that ten in major competitions is a record.

bluealf wrote:
Aye, but shagging prostitutes because your wife is pregnant with your first child and won't let you on the nest? Takes a special kind of worthless scum to do something like that.

Always wondered what Jimmy Greaves got up to when he was an alcoholic, seen people slagging off Gascoigne this week due to Greaves being in the news needing financial help to prolong his life - ironic that Greaves was in a state like Gascoigne once and has worked with Gascoigne and given him help fighting in his own demons.

Robbie Keane has 67 international goals for ROi

does that make him better????

Three words to describe them.
Charlton - legend. Class. Gentleman.
Rooney - prostitutes. Ignorant . Disloyal.

I didn't know Rooney was a prostitute, can't see him mekking much.

This was just posted on Twitter by @sportingintel

I can't (or don't know how to) view that on my phone. Can you reformat or whatever you need to do?

The list of England strikers who've scored a decent amount of goals in big games against top teams is pretty short:

1. Hurst
2. Lineker

Perhaps you could argue Owen and Shearer.

As for the fella who reckoned Portugal weren't a top class team when Charlton got 2 goals against them in the world cup semi...give me strength!

It was a different game back then - Jack Charlton didn't even get sent off for a deliberate handball in the box in that semi final!

Seen a few comments elsewhere about Rooney not being strong enough to play in Charlton's era... I'm amazed people are saying that... whoever is better and whatever faults each have you'd think Rooney would be strong enough to play in any era.... even at 15 he was built like Biffa Bacon....

Comparing Owen or Lineker with Charlton is a different matter......

Reeves9 wrote:
USSR, Spain, Yugoslavia, Portugal, Czechoslovakia all more than decent. The Portugal team of 66 demolished the reigning world champions and had one of the greatest strikers off all time up front, so defeating them was a particularly good feat at the time.

As for not scoring in WC qualifiers - England played the grand total of 4 world cup qualifiers between June 1957 and October 1972!

In the same respect, you could call the following teams that Rooney has scored against more than decent too - Denmark, Switzerland, Croatia, Uruguay.

I'm not saying that Rooney is a better player or anything, far from it. I just think it's insane that lots of people are determined to have it that Rooney is an awful player who has blagged his way through 50 international goals without any skill or ability.

I swear there's probably people on here that think he's not a patch on Billy Paynter. And that he'd have 150 international goals if he'd played in the same team as Gary Dicker.

Perfect thread for the haters and the "everything was better in the glorious past" types.

If anyone gives a toss I reckon David Alaba must be the best Austrian player ever?

He couldn't lace Toni Polster or Hans Krankl's boots...

and you of course would have seen and followed their careers how please?

If it's that easy to score that many goals for England, why doesn't everyone else do it?

sirjimmyglass wrote:
Because despite all of us being far fitter and more naturally talented than Rooney we have chosen to struggle on in life in a jolly fashion - as we do not need the money or job satisfaction that would be brought to us if we were a top Premiership Footballer and Captain of our national team.

And I'm too old now anyway.