You have to wonder how an airline that charges sometimes in excess of GBP200 for a 20 minute flight can possibly go bust. It must be inept mis-management of the first order!!!

Looks like LoganAir been sat ready to move:

https://twitter.com/flyloganair/status/1235575194770685953?s=21

Do any UK flights actually pick up passengers en route to final destination ?

The Cardiff /Edinburgh route would be handy with a pick up at Carlisle ;-)

Looks like a load of smoke and mirrors at Stob-they only put £7m of cash into Flybe according to the Times.Rest was ‘value’ attributable to the aircraft leasing side.

As always, it’s how you tell them

Why the [censored] do you need to fly between destinations in the UK?

Because public transport is in most cases worse than useless

Why the [censored] do you need to fly between destinations in the UK?

It's cheaper and quicker.

Also for businesses a long train, or car journey means a day lost at work.

Why the [censored] do you need to fly between destinations in the UK?

If you live in Glasgow/Edinburgh and have a business meeting in Edinburgh?
If you live on an Island?
Trains are absolutely shit and more expensive than flying
The Motorways are clogged
Even on the mainland places like Newquay, Inverness, Wick etc etc

Barry

The company is and was a shambles-cost per passenger 25pc higher than other airlines because they had too many planes.Branson turned the taps off earlier this week and it was goodnight Vienna

Government did the right thing in my view-now they should incentive some of the better run airlines to take on some of the unprofitable routes

Dont think Air Passenger Duty should apply on internal flights anyway...seems they werent paying it over to HMRC

The whole Intercity flight issue needs to be reviewed. Instead of using main airports, using small municipals like Carlisle, Exeter, Newquay etc, build more of them with a lower cost base..

Planes offering ' bus service ' type flights between these smaller airports would be far better than what we have at the moment. How do small airlines compete for slots and pay high landing and fuel/service charges without passing it on ? Easy, fly at awkward times so an overnight/car hire is needed and get a back-hander off the local Councils. Ryanair worked it out decades ago.

Top tip: Buy a load of stuff off the trolley on the plane, use your card,with no money in the account. The paperwork gets processed on the ground,using a retailer handset. They never, ever chase you for payment.

Will Carlisle Airport ever open again?

I see Loganair are starting limited flights from a few selected Airports in June.

Carlisle has disappeared from the list all together.

Well if you look at the Stobart accounts published last night, you will see a take of woe-big writedowns and massive fundraise launched

Not a very positive soundbite:

"Its Carlisle Lake District Airport has been closed due to the pandemic and it is not known when it will reopen."


https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18498295.stobart-group-raises-100m-stabilise-future/

The Stobart accounts are a shambles-just like ESL in the haulage side.Massive impairments on assets and cash strapped.They have written down Carlisle airport by a big number too.

Two years ago, both companies were riding high in the stock market.But accounting issues and lack of cashflow from their various businesses has caught them out.

Interesting they’re going to dump the Rail/Civils part of the Business, the forerunner WA Developments being Andrew Tinkler’s baby and how he came to join up with the Stobart Group in the early 00’s.

Be plenty of Companies interested in it, wonder if a certain former CUFC Owner will be one of them...

Let's be blunt, W A Developments took over Stobart's along with William Stobart's help (he was also a Director of W A developments).

The rail division has always been very profitable, if it still is, then of course it has a value and is worthy of a takeover.

As for the rest...............................

The Stobart brand is virtually dead now.

Given they have HS2 works in their order books they’ll definitely appeal...

Has anyone heard if Carlisle Airport is likely to open again (if ever) ?

Looks like the party is over between Carlisle Airport and Loganair.....

https://www.anna.aero/2020/06/15/30-minutes-with-loganair-ceo-video-now-available-with-hard-hitting-answers-to-key-questions/

This was never going to work sadly-Stobart as a business is in deep shit, as is the logistics business.Mountains of debt, ridiculous intangibles in both balance sheets, exotic accounting and the virus has caught both out

Commercial flights finished.

Commercial flights finished.

That information has been in the public arena for over 3 weeks now.

And Newsquest have only just picked up on it now - clueless!

I’m astonished they ever thought it would work but the virus gives them the opportunity to bury the bad news

I’m astonished they ever thought it would work but the virus gives them the opportunity to bury the bad news

Bit nasty that isn't it? Carlisle's been crying out for the airport to be used for flights so it's a real shame it hasn't worked out and the virus happening when it did didnt help them. Maybe once times changer another airline will take over.

Mush, it's a harsh but fair comment from Laffy. It was always a very fragile business case for the airport using a couple of 34-seater aircraft. Small city airports have a long history of failure and closure - I remember Coventry, Sheffield, Plymouth and Blackpool running flights not that long ago. Even more established airports like Southend and Southampton look unviable now. The pandemic has destroyed business travel - probably permanently with huge repercussions for airports, airlines and hotels. Poor little Carlisle Airport had no chance of surviving in the circumstances.

Oh yeah I understand the risks of it but it was just great to see flights taking off from Carlisle.

Fair comment Mush.Im definitely one for at least trying rather than not bothering but I thought this was one too far.I know a bit about the industry as my business partner John Boyle owned Zoom airlines which went down in 2008 due to ferocious competition provided by BA and Virgin.We were selling return flights to JFK for £250-of which £200 was tax!So £25 each way to New York when the fuel alone was c£50k per trip.Jonathan Hinckles of Loganair was our MD at the time.Decent guy and smart but not enough to change BA and Virgin pricing policy.

I think the whole industry needs a shakeout-too much capacity, too many airports, too few passengers.

It’s a real shame for Carlisle but I think the money could be better spent on other infrastructure in the area.

...and a shakeout will happen. I've never understood why the likes of the Air South West model was not a success, it was more like a bus service. Get on at Newcastle, stop and drop and collect a few at Torquay, then on to Newquay. The flight then went on to Cork, and finished in Edinburgh.

Slots at the main Airports kill small Airlines, so the solution is to not fly their, The UK is covered with small airstrips that could easily handle a 34 seater if they weren't as tied up with red-tape.

Couple of high powered torches, and few fire extinguishers in a pick-up and away you go..............

Agree (for once) silentone. Could see me using a service that went to Newquay providing I could hire a car at the other end. I’m driving to Wick in August as well so the same would apply if a bus service type flight stopped somewhere up there as well. Couldn’t ever see me flying to Southend to get to London when the train is a easy enough option.

Referring to an article in the news and star I'm not sure how they work out that it will be quicker than train from London to Carlisle when you have to fly from Southend airport to land 10 miles outside Carlisle. The Euston to Carlisle train is only 3hrs 20 mins.

No flying anywhere from Carlisle for the foreseeable!

Looks like it’s about to be offloaded by Stobart

Was a Company in news other week looking to restart Belfast and Dublin flights...

Stobarts are masters at adapting so the question would have to be raised in my eyes of the viability of the airport.

New operator-Stobart needs to offload to get shot of an asset that devours cash

Stobarts always was surprisingly ran on a tighter budget than you would think.

Edward once told me that he was rich every month, and then he had to pay the wages - he was a top bloke Edward.

Not sure I agree-they managed to torch the business by racking up huge debts.The airport business is being dismantled to stay alive.

The logistics group has had a torrid time-again through crazy accounting, poor property deals and paying dividends from debt.

Poor shareholders have lost a lot of money

Was a Company in news other week looking to restart Belfast and Dublin flights...

Found it!

Lakeland Airways:

Ettyl Ltd from the Isle of Man are taking the Airport on:

The new owner:

https://bita.ie/chapters/isle-of-man/board-members/jason-scales.html

Not sure I agree-they managed to torch the business by racking up huge debts.The airport business is being dismantled to stay alive.

The logistics group has had a torrid time-again through crazy accounting, poor property deals and paying dividends from debt.

Poor shareholders have lost a lot of money

I hark back to the early nineties when they were on the up - a totally different beast than today.

Nothing is ever perfect but it was refreshing to give a stale and often looked down upon profession a shiny, smart new image and outlook - being a local company made it even more sweet.

Just started reading the Hunter Davies book on the company - if it is of any interest I'll pass it on to yourself or anyone else on here when I'm done if they fancy a read.

At the end of the day, shareholders were beguiled by the shiny-the reality is it’s a low margin sector where scale is paramount.Throw in an airline and a couple of regional airports and you can have your own car crash.

Tinkler was a deal maker-thats what generated net profit.The haulage was a sideshow and the accounting shambles just let the genie out.

Wait, l thought Stobart were going to use the airport for flying supermarket goods to North of Scotland.
You mean that didn’t happen after all that council cash?

Tinkler and Stobart came across as a right pair of dodgy arseholes on that program a few years ago.

High Street

It’s worth looking at the recent history of the airport-who bought it, then sold it to whom.It’s a fantasy as an airport-always has been.

It’s always worth looking at the balance sheets of companies like Stobart-they had enormous intangibles which for a trucking company were a joke.But they sure pulled the wool over the eyes of some serious investors like Woodford.The problem with intangibles is they can’t be spent at Tesco but they sure make the balance sheet look amazing.



I have never met anyone who wanted to fly to Southend from Carlisle but wait until the next day to come home!!Doomed from day one