Kessler’s Thread

Can you confirm whether something a poster on the independent cufc said regarding your consortium is correct


"The negotiations between the two sides had reached a point where somebody from the Holdings side contacted the individual members of the Lapping Consortium asking them to irrevocably commit their stated amounts of money. They refused to do so and you can ostensibly believe that the Holdings board quite reasonably instructed their legal team to formally terminate the entire matter.

But read on a bit. For a takeover to occur involving a consortium of more than 6 people those people have to be given a totally up-to-date prospectus by the consortium leader before they commit any funds. At this time Andrew Lapping was preparing this prospectus such that it was totally up to date and entirely accurate at that stage of the proceedings. "

"This two-bit takeover effort" as piglet put it.
he never passes a chance to rubbish Laffy.

"This two-bit takeover effort" as piglet put it.
he never passes a chance to rubbish Laffy.

I always thought it fell through because Laffy promised he could raise a certain amount, and when the BOD went to the other members of the consortium to verify that, they said they hadn't actually promised the amount Laffy said. If that was the case, I could understand why they stopped negotiations at that point. But not sure if that's what actually happened?

Kes

Let me put basic questions to you

Would you sink money into a football club without seeing;

1.a financial report on the current finances and;

2.a set of revised shareholder Agreements setting out how your investment will sit in the new structure.

All wrapped up in a Share Prospectus to stay within the remit of the FCA.

I hope you wouldn’t invest in any company or business without going through that DD.

That might be how you do it in Carlisle but not with me

Kes

Let me put basic questions to you

Would you sink money into a football club without seeing;

1.a financial report on the current finances and;

2.a set of revised shareholder Agreements setting out how your investment will sit in the new structure.

All wrapped up in a Share Prospectus to stay within the remit of the FCA.

I hope you wouldn’t invest in any company or business without going through that DD.

That might be how you do it in Carlisle but not with me

Probably not, but I don't see how any of that really answers my question though Laffy? They said that you told them you could secure investment of a certain amount, but when they tried to verify that with the other members of the consortium it turned out they hadn't promised that full amount.

Let's imagine that you're selling your Garmin hat and want £100. I approach you as the leader of a small consortium to buy it, I can put in £60 and another investor called Mullen is offering to put in the other £40. You're happy to sell it to us as long as we raise the full amount, but when you contact Mullen it turns out he was only offering to put £20 into the consortium and not the £40 I've claimed. Won't you now be skeptical about whether we can actually afford to buy it? From what I understand that's kind of what happened with your consortium, at least according to the club. Are they wrong, and if so, what actually happened?

The problem with the EWM loan is that it was given to the same owners/people/structure as before that failed, with no accountability. All that’s been achieved is a 2.25 million debt, no success and a bit of football fortune.

Nixon admitted that if the loan was to be called in then we’d be in trouble, therefore to me that means the football fortune won’t cover it.

Lapping deal involved multiple people with accountability and structure/personal change. Laffys company hyperdrive is successful and based on that model.

I know who’d I’d rather have and run our club.

The problem with the EWM loan is that it was given to the same owners/people/structure as before that failed, with no accountability. All that’s been achieved is a 2.25 million debt, no success and a bit of football fortune.

Nixon admitted that if the loan was to be called in then we’d be in trouble, therefore to me that means the football fortune won’t cover it.

Lapping deal involved multiple people with accountability and structure/personal change. Laffys company hyperdrive is successful and based on that model.

I know who’d I’d rather have and run our club.

Laffy would be preferable to the current regime. He has ambition and drive, things I definitely want to see in anyone running the club. But if he promised his consortium could raise a specific amount, but in reality they had pledged a smaller amount than he said, I can understand why the BOD would be reluctant to continue negotiations. The BOD seemed to suggest that's what happened, I don't know if I believe them or not but I'd like to know Laffy's side of the story.

Kes-I was very confident of raising the money.Otherwise why spend a year of my life and £40k in professionals doing DD.

I invest a lot in Flotations.The course of events as usually as follows

-lawyers and accountants prepare a document called a Prospectus.This is based on the investment case agreed with the current management and owners.

-prior to release of Prospectus, market soundings with potential investors undertaken to gauge interest.

-Prospectus then presented on a Roadshow by management to interested parties.

-Sponsor then builds the ‘book’ -basically seeking hard commitment from investors


Basically I got to the stage where the Prospectus was ready to present to the interested parties-some were very committed, others wanted to see the plan in a document which I would suggest is sensible.It was NOT viewed by the Club simply because they pulled the plug beforehand.

It’s all academic-they did me a big favour as frankly I wouldn’t want to be associated with the last few grim years and I don’t do mediocrity.It would also have been a major distraction for me with DPE, Hindley Circuits and Hyperdrive as Mullen notes.Basically I was lucky to not get involved.

People go on about me wanting a takeover-this is so far from reality.I wanted a clearout with someone called a CEO running it professionally-I wanted to step back and let it run that way.JN was to look after the EFL stuff simply because it’s not the one way ticket some believe.It was also to take the burden away from AJ as he’s done his bit and more.

Kes-I was very confident of raising the money.Otherwise why spend a year of my life and £40k in professionals doing DD.

I invest a lot in Flotations.The course of events as usually as follows

-lawyers and accountants prepare a document called a Prospectus.This is based on the investment case agreed with the current management and owners.

-prior to release of Prospectus, market soundings with potential investors undertaken to gauge interest.

-Prospectus then presented on a Roadshow by management to interested parties.

-Sponsor then builds the ‘book’ -basically seeking hard commitment from investors


Basically I got to the stage where the Prospectus was ready to present to the interested parties-some were very committed, others wanted to see the plan in a document which I would suggest is sensible.It was NOT viewed by the Club simply because they pulled the plug beforehand.

It’s all academic-they did me a big favour as frankly I wouldn’t want to be associated with the last few grim years and I don’t do mediocrity.It would also have been a major distraction for me with DPE, Hindley Circuits and Hyperdrive as Mullen notes.Basically I was lucky to not get involved.

People go on about me wanting a takeover-this is so far from reality.I wanted a clearout with someone called a CEO running it professionally-I wanted to step back and let it run that way.JN was to look after the EFL stuff simply because it’s not the one way ticket some believe.It was also to take the burden away from AJ as he’s done his bit and more.

I'm not disputing the hard work you put in, nor do I think you wanted a takeover. I also think you would be a better choice than the current lot. But I can see why this way of doing it might have caused issues. If I own a club and you come to me saying you have a consortium that can raise a specific amount, I'm not just going to take your word. What about due diligence? I'd be approaching the other members independently of you to verify that they have indeed committed to investing what you say they are. If they say they aren't yet fully committed then I might start to doubt that you can raise what you say. Was there any other way of doing this that could have avoided that issue?

Whoever does eventuality take over they must know one thing..... none of the 3 amigos should have any involvement with CUFC every again in any capacity whatsoever! Failure to do this would put us right back in the current mess.

No Kes-it’s the law.I am regulated by the FCA and offering shares to a group of individuals is a criminal offence unless under a set of rules

No Kes-it’s the law.I am regulated by the FCA and offering shares to a group of individuals is a criminal offence unless under a set of rules

Did you explain that to the BOD, and that doing what they asked would require you to break the law then?

"This two-bit takeover effort" as piglet put it.
he never passes a chance to rubbish Laffy.

I thought that it was in poor taste.

A fan and successful businessman, especially in the current climate, wants to take over the club - short of a sugar daddy owner then what better do folk expect?

I would have thought that Piglet would have embraced the opportunity for an owner who would actually answer his questions and concerns rather than watching a bloke in a sling spout bullshit over a webcam for two hours.

rather than watching a bloke in a sling spout bullshit over a webcam for two hours.

Niche market that Munchy!

Shit! Sorry, wrong Forum...

Kes - not sure if you are being deliberately obtrusive here but, using your analogy:- potentail buyer asks how much you would want for the hat if he makes an offer. Seller tells him. Buyer says I can raise that, and sets about doing it.
If buyer does not raise the dosh, the hat stays with the seller, if he does he gets to wear it, and show it off in the Evening News and Star.
It's called business.

Maybe people said they would give that ammount of money to Laffy's bid & when the board went behind his back to ask these people, they maybe went oh no i never said that much as they didnt want to upset the board.
Maybe other things were said to these people that made them change there mind to cover their a$$.

You have to put yourself into the position that Laffy was in - Nixon always spouts that the club cannot be sold willy nilly to anyone and we need succession and all this talk about a ship with a no rudder nonsense if the three left abruptly.

Then you come along and therefore have to explain to them your good intentions, they agree with you but then [censored] you off stealing your business plan and try to discredit you in the process.

You also have to look at the bigger picture, most of the take-over talk in recent years have been from unfitting suitors that are usually faceless - I don't reckon a fan and a successful businessman would have risked egg on his face by not being able to stump up the cash - the deal hadn't even got to that stage, then he has gone on to be even more successful.

Just my opinion of course but I reckon that we could have done far worse.

It was 6 years ago-it’s dead.How time flies.

Kes-just come off a call on another PLC fundraiser.Guess what-a working example of cash raising in the 21st century under MAR and the FCA.

-would you consider investing in this?
-show me the document.
-ok-how much are you wanting from me and what price?
-what are you going to do with the cash?
-when do you need the money?
-send me the paperwork-I’m in.

Kes-thats how it works.The DD and legal drafts weren’t reviewed by the BOD-think about it.Instead, ‘dubious business practices’ blah blah.

Meantime, I’ve won the Queens Award for Enterprise with Hyperdrive which had 3 employees when I took it on-now 85.We doubled our turnover in the pandemic and will double it again this year.How?By employing a team of professionals and giving them clear direction and autonomy.The best is yet to come and boy will it be sweet for me and all the hard working staff.

Such a shame Laffy and Lummy couldn't have got together and put a plan together for a takeover. Laffys plan to employ an accountable CEO to run things would be the right approach. Everything involving our present owners and the trust drags on forever with lots of promises and no delivery.

Headline in N+S online says Nixon still claims they don’t stand in the way of a takeover.
Strange headline when it’s clear to me they do.

It was 6 years ago-it’s dead.How time flies.

Kes-just come off a call on another PLC fundraiser.Guess what-a working example of cash raising in the 21st century under MAR and the FCA.

-would you consider investing in this?
-show me the document.
-ok-how much are you wanting from me and what price?
-what are you going to do with the cash?
-when do you need the money?
-send me the paperwork-I’m in.

Kes-thats how it works.The DD and legal drafts weren’t reviewed by the BOD-think about it.Instead, ‘dubious business practices’ blah blah.

Meantime, I’ve won the Queens Award for Enterprise with Hyperdrive which had 3 employees when I took it on-now 85.We doubled our turnover in the pandemic and will double it again this year.How?By employing a team of professionals and giving them clear direction and autonomy.The best is yet to come and boy will it be sweet for me and all the hard working staff.

Ok so what did the other people in the consortium say to the BOD when contacted? Because at a previous forum, Patt's version of events seemed to be that you'd told them your consortium could raise a certain amount, but when they contacted other members of the consortium, those members said they hadn't actually offered to put in as much money as you claimed they had.

I don't know much about how the process actually works, but if it was an administrative issue, the prospectus not being out yet or whatever, could you not have tried explaining that to them? If this was something you cared a lot about, why just give up?

Kes

It was very clear they didn’t want me so no point in pursuing-look at Prince Harry as an example of washing dirty linen.Of course, relegation had been staved off so maybe they didn’t need me other than soften up the Trust and FS.

Anyway, David Allen was probably right in his parting shot.He’s not done too badly since refocusing on his business.

It was very clear they didn’t want me so no point in pursuing-look at Prince Harry as an example of washing dirty linen.

I'm not saying you should have done that, but if it was just a small administrative issue couldn't you have contacted them and explained? You maybe didn't need to give up so easily and quickly. And I know many here would have preferred you had kept pushing and eventually got a deal.

It was very clear they didn’t want me so no point in pursuing-look at Prince Harry as an example of washing dirty linen.

I'm not saying you should have done that, but if it was just a small administrative issue couldn't you have contacted them and explained? You maybe didn't need to give up so easily and quickly. And I know many here would have preferred you had kept pushing and eventually got a deal.

The club said they was a multi billionaire interested though. The one that turned out to be a pizza guy.

Kes

I was told there was a Petro chemical billionaire and asked to stand down-fair enough.Little did we know that Petro chemical actually meant ‘salt and vinegar?’