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  3. 04-05-2021 07:25
Five part article this week on the O/S!

Part 1:
References
  1. https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2021/may/chief-exec-financial-results-for-201920/
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Well he at least agrees with me that filing accounts many moons after the year end is counter productive.
  1. 04-05-2021 07:31
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  3. # 1
ccu
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The £1.1m of received transfer fees will only cover any initial Branthwaite cash (Rumour was approx £800k) plus anything for McCarron/Galloway from Leeds and a few shekels for Hope to Swindon.

Add-ons from Branthwaite, plus any from Henderson and Cosgrove won’t show in Accounts for 20/21 due in a year or so!
  1. 04-05-2021 08:35
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I'm not reading all that!

What's the gist of it? :D
  1. 04-05-2021 08:37
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ccu
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What's the gist of it?


We’ll probably be better off than most other Clubs in L2 despite owing £2.25m to EWM...
  1. 04-05-2021 08:39
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What's the gist of it?


We’ll probably be better off than most other Clubs in L2 despite owing £2.25m to EWM...


So Beechy's claim that our budget is just above Penrith's looks unlikely.
  1. 04-05-2021 08:46
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The Club's confirmation statement is due now to be filed at Companies House. (what used to be called the annual return and periodically has a shareholder list). Hopefully John Nixon won't leave it as late as he did last year, filing over 2 months late.

The main reason for delaying signing off the accounts will be the auditor's view on whether the Club is a going concern or whether there needs to be an 'emphasis of matter' or worse. By leaving it to the last possible minute more of the Henderson money will accrue making the financial position clearer and better.

I like the clarity Clibbens provides.
  1. 04-05-2021 09:06
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Just looking at last year's accounts, Clibbens put in a line which will be the first thing to look for in the accounts when they are published. "There are no plans or agreements in place to repay any existing debt in the upcoming year, including using any windfalls that may arise from Football Fortune."

I'd be very surprised if Purepay Retail Ltd (the current owner of the debt) didn't want to get their hands on some of the player transfer income bonanza, either by having a formal agreement or just an ad hoc arrangement.
  1. 04-05-2021 09:26
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Do they actually want to report a profit, cos that means the taxman will want a nice slice of that?

Better off paying debts, or spending it on a new training pitch and then saying "eeh broke even, lucky us"? Though I guess with this being from over 12 months ago it's a bit late...

(Laffy will know better as I believe he had passing knowledge of this sort of thing)
  1. 04-05-2021 09:33
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There will be no tax, as past years losses will be used the profits.
Big headline for me is £750K profit while boasting we were nowhere near the salary cap, and why has the debt gone up to £3M?
  1. 04-05-2021 09:45
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Orfc, there'll be carried forward tax losses meaning there won't be much tax payable if any.
  1. 04-05-2021 09:45
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Interesting that the EWM loan of £2.1 million is now £2.25 million.

Interest must be getting added.
  1. 04-05-2021 09:50
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Yes-the issue will be repayment date for the balance sheet.I would expect the accounts to say something this time around about it
  1. 04-05-2021 10:45
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Nigel - it's a bit daft it's in five parts isn't it?
We're adults, we can assimilate information and read more than a page at a time. We've your CUSG minutes as a template to it.
  1. 04-05-2021 11:33
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so what is our total debt then.
  1. 04-05-2021 11:37
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ccu
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Probably more to do with generating hits on the O/S?
  1. 04-05-2021 11:37
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Also interesting we took out the EFL loan of 120k, this is the one that needs to be paid back.

It’s quite small in comparison to a lot of clubs, but it’s the one that has to be paid back in full by 2024, when the shit will hit the fan for a lot of clubs.
  1. 04-05-2021 11:54
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Total debt say £3m-the £500k cash will have been used to cover working capital in the current malaise as he alludes to.

We are better off than most thanks to the football fortune

Interesting he refers to the ongoing £500k pa trading losses.
  1. 04-05-2021 12:16
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Not knowing anything about the goings on in accountancy but the clubs accounts are never cheery - there are experts who can see through it but to me it sounds like they get xx amount coming in, spend seemingly naff all and the debt goes up whilst Holdsworth says what a great job he is doing.

The recruitment therefore represents crap value for money as it isn't like we have a team of Nicky Maynards.
  1. 04-05-2021 12:38
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Just found this, probably wrong and a bit out of date.
References
  1. https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-league-two/carlisle-united/
  1. 04-05-2021 12:42
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ccu
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  1. 04-05-2021 13:12
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ccu
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Just found this, probably wrong and a bit out of date.


Been on here before that, it’s a load of shite...

:D
  1. 04-05-2021 13:13
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Just found this, probably wrong and a bit out of date.


Been on here before that, it’s a load of shite...

:D

Think it’s the football manager rumoured wages
  1. 04-05-2021 13:24
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Pretty brutal second instalment from NC-horrible numbers before any mitigation but will be like that for most lower league clubs who depend on gate revenue
  1. 04-05-2021 14:24
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Just found this, probably wrong and a bit out of date.

Probably a lot of guess work, but can't see us paying over £2K to anyone, not by a long way.
Bennett on £700 week probably says it's a pile of rubbish.
So does £1.4M a year on player wages.
  1. 04-05-2021 15:52
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I wonder how many clubs, in a few years time, will wish this season didn’t go ahead.

We’ve probably done ok and took out a relatively small loan but others took huge amounts and they have to be paid back.

The EFL will have a problem I think. Call the loans in and risk bankrupting clubs or don’t and penalise those that have ran a tight ship or been lucky.
  1. 04-05-2021 16:42
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ccu
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  1. 05-05-2021 14:13
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Could hardly sleep last night waiting for Part 3 to come out.
So, for all this £1.2M cost of covid bollocks, it cost us £140K. And this is before the players sales income is considered.
It would be churlish to say anything else than well done to the club on managing this unprecedented shitshow.
Why we have had to spin it this way, I have no idea.
What's the thinking Nige? Text it to CCU if you are busy.
  1. 05-05-2021 14:42
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You get the feeling there is sucker punch coming shortly-could be Trust dilution.

Anyway, it’s very helpful in my view to see where it all fits together in a crisis.
  1. 05-05-2021 16:33
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With these financial statements, saying we are in the bottom 6 in terms of budget and the Covid situation of only seeing a handful of live matches.

You must be absolutely bonkers to want a season ticket next season.

The club, NC, will have to do some fancy promotions. There’s obviously those that’ll buy whatever but it could be the lowest total for many a year.
  1. 05-05-2021 20:20
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I’m looking for something positive coming out of the remaining episodes of the five part thriller-the first three are scene setters so what can be the finale?

My betting is on an equity raise/debt swap and Trust capitulation on their anti dilution clause.Something has to give because we look like a bit of driftwood thats been washed up at Allonby.

Interesting on I Follow-the income looks quite strong.I can see a scenario where affiliated fans of a club buy season tickets, even if only for away matches.
  1. 05-05-2021 21:52
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Interesting on I Follow-the income looks quite strong.I can see a scenario where affiliated fans of a club buy season tickets, even if only for away matches.

The I follow money has been a bonus. It will be interesting to see what happens next season.

Why 5 parts. Thats 2 more on Holdsworth. :D
  1. 05-05-2021 22:08
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Wouldn’t trust dilution need a vote amongst members.
  1. 05-05-2021 23:14
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So if we owe 2.25 million to EWM or whoever, what is our total debt. 3 million.

and we have no asset in the stadium or players really.
  1. 06-05-2021 01:47
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interesting perspective from Bayern Munich on season tickets, supply/demand and pricing policy.

https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/photos/a.358382814307257/4446342708844560/
  1. 06-05-2021 02:35
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I may be in a minority, but think the positive iFollow income is a negative long term. If folk get used to not going to BP and watch for less on that medium, it could start an accumulating trend.
Also less income for the club.
  1. 06-05-2021 09:21
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I agree-it’s a short term fix but possible long term damage.I do get it for away fixtures though
  1. 06-05-2021 11:43
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ccu
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  1. 06-05-2021 13:17
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Austerity beckons is the message-and I don’t blame them
  1. 06-05-2021 13:24
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Comical Andy gone full Comical Ali now, still insisting the loss is £1.2M when NC has set out how it is £140K. Have no idea what the point of this is.
So many contradictions in NC ramblings as well;
"As I said previously, looking forward, we are presuming and planning to operate on this same self-sufficient basis. This means we need to remain cautious and prudent in our financial affairs, whilst supporting David and Chris with all the help we can as we look forward to 21/22".
"However, year-on-yearthe normal recurring losses which we incur year on year- (unless football costs are slashed or we achieve unprecedented income increases), still needs to be funded as usual in 20/21. This will again be the case in 21/22",
Do you want to text him Dan?
  1. 06-05-2021 16:55
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How proactive are Andrew and co likely being in terms of succession? Are they waiting for someone to ride through the door, pay off any debts and take over the club? Are they being proactive, making contacts and talking to people? Are they telling themselves "no one would like to take over a football club in the current climate" thus they are plodding on? Perhaps they could let us know.
  1. 06-05-2021 17:27
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How proactive are Andrew and co likely being in terms of succession? Are they waiting for someone to ride through the door, pay off any debts and take over the club? Are they being proactive, making contacts and talking to people? Are they telling themselves "no one would like to take over a football club in the current climate" thus they are plodding on? Perhaps they could let us know.


Interesting question....
AJ loves the club and will want sort out the succession issue before he departs this earth.
He knows no-one is going to ride through the door and give him three £3m to pay off the debt
especially in the present financial climate.

I think something is going on behind the scenes... E W M would be a Limited Company
so Philip Day will still have his personal fortune.
I would not be surprised if PD and his close friend DH are putting together a deal to take over.
  1. 06-05-2021 18:12
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As I say, it’s austerity with a capital A until succession-whatever that means
  1. 06-05-2021 18:16
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They would probably bite Laffy's hand off for the same proposal that he offered them five years back.

Nixon still on the gravy train and an escape route for Jenkins.
  1. 06-05-2021 18:17
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If you remember, my plan was to inject long term equity into the company and hold it as reserves for a rainy day-then rebuild from bottom up with a professional team running the show.

And lo, it came to pass 6 years later that having borrowed rather than take equity to preserve themselves and their shareholdings, they are now err.... building reserves!!

Only difference is they are now up to their necks in debt-the crap about the value of the balance sheet value is just err.... crap.
  1. 06-05-2021 18:49
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In part 5 do we find out H and the 4th man are in fact Patty?
  1. 06-05-2021 19:18
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H is Holdsworth, clearly.
  1. 06-05-2021 19:47
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Too obvious Tim
  1. 06-05-2021 19:49
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The best place to hide something is in plain sight...
  1. 06-05-2021 20:09
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ccu
Site Admin
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Here you go CW!

Could hardly sleep last night waiting for Part 3 to come out.
So, for all this £1.2M cost of covid bollocks, it cost us £140K. And this is before the players sales income is considered.
It would be churlish to say anything else than well done to the club on managing this unprecedented shitshow.
Why we have had to spin it this way, I have no idea.
What's the thinking Nige? Text it to CCU if you are busy.



I am happy to clarify for Carlislewhite

Its not spin.

The point was to explain all the things that have gone down creating a big hole (£1.2m) to fill. Then all the things that have happened and we have done to address that and fill it. The net position is its all been balanced off before player sales. As you point out. I am pleased that key point is clear.

To just say it has been managed away and balanced off and give no detail would have just resulted in more questions. How? I thought there was a hole etc? what about all the other comments he made before!

It would underplay how serious this could have been for the future and how difficult its been without crippling the team with budget cuts in 20/21 or creating a damaging legacy of problems to deal with in future years starting next year. As you say “unprecedented s***show” – Hopefully, its crystal clear how much of one and why!

When in September 2021 there was no bailout in place, furlough was due to end and fans were being locked out and we didn’t know how much ifollow would provide – the £1.2m hole looked very deep.

Not to link everything altogether, or link it to other comments and update I’ve made in the many updates over prior months would also raise questions.

Hopefully, fans can see how all the pieces I have provided in the last year come together and are consistent, whether it’s the lost income estimate going back nearly a year, the monthly ifollow updates or PL bailout comments from December and furlough, paye and vat information.

The individual pieces fit together in the jigsaw and it isn’t spin, hindsight or made up to look good or get plaudits – its just to complete the jigsaw for the record so there are no lose ends.

Its difficult to make everyone happy when some want detail and have issues when they don’t get it (eg hiding something) and others who don’t want detail and have issues when its given (too long too detailed waste of time, do something else).

My view is that fans now have all the info and can form their own views – good or bad or not even read. No hiding anything. No problem. Happy to clarify.”



And more...


Comical Andy gone full Comical Ali now, still insisting the loss is £1.2M when NC has set out how it is £140K. Have no idea what the point of this is.
So many contradictions in NC ramblings as well;
"As I said previously, looking forward, we are presuming and planning to operate on this same self-sufficient basis. This means we need to remain cautious and prudent in our financial affairs, whilst supporting David and Chris with all the help we can as we look forward to 21/22".
"However, year-on-yearthe normal recurring losses which we incur year on year- (unless football costs are slashed or we achieve unprecedented income increases), still needs to be funded as usual in 20/21. This will again be the case in 21/22",
Do you want to text him Dan?



Again for Carlislewhite

The are absolutely no contradictions. That’s the point of carefully laying out all the pieces. All the explanation is entirely consistent and fits together. I am happy to clarify.

In Part 1 I said

“In a normal year we still need around £400k-£500k of new cash. This usually comes from football fortune or when we are not self-funding, from external sources. In 19/20 that came from player sales”

Clarifying your specific query….

1 “planning to operate on this same self-sufficient basis. “

That means we plan run the club (operate) using only the money we earn ourselves (self-sufficient basis). Not getting any money from anyone outside (shareholder or commercial funding like EWM previously provided loaned)…. That’s the big picture

2 “The normal recurring losses which we incur year on year… still needs to be funded as usual in 20/21. This will again be the case in 21/22"

That links to (1) and means, despite not getting any money from anyone outside, we still have losses to cover like 20/21.

There is no contradiction, it is a continuation. Putting it together, and removing all the detail.

In 21/22 we will continue to make losses which need cash to pay for them. This normal. The cash we need is not planned to come from external sources. It needs to again come from cash we earn ourselves like 20/21. That means we will use cash from football fortune to pay for normal losses again like 20/21.

Hope that helps.



That ok CW?!
  1. 06-05-2021 20:41
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What do you think the 5 part story is about Piglet?Do you think it’s building to a happy finish?
  1. 06-05-2021 20:58
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