Carlisle United's Moral Compass - Are you happy with the direction its pointing?

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12 Jun 2019 10:56 #1 by Oakley
So its been a while since I've posted as my interest has waived slightly but reading the press a few things have got me thinking,

In the past we i think its fair to say we've forgiven and forgotten a lot of Jenkins & Co shortcomings because we always believed their heart was in the right place,

Now I know know that there aren't many morals in football anymore but how do people feel about the route that CUFC are going?

1. David Holdsworth - everything about him oozes shark, conman, sleaze, arrogance
2. Treatment of senior players such as Devitt, Collin, Parkes
3. Loss of Danny Grainger - I still believe if CUFC really wanted him involved he would have been
4. Departure of Paul Murray etc in todays perss and how that was handled
5. The treatment and what has been said about Curle
6. Other coaching staff turmoil


I'm so turned off by the club at the minute and the clinical cold sight of the behavior of whats coming out of Brunton Park & Holdsworth sickens me to a point where I wont go back even if the season does get off to a sucessful start.

I was frustrated a couple of years ago and still went & had season tickets because I wanted to support my club and genuinely felt that yes we were badly run, but it still had a welcoming family feel that i was proud to be a CUFC supporter

This isn't the CUFC I like and I'm kind of embarrassed with how the club is behaving.

Anyway struggling to get down in my head what I trying to say, I just feel it all just stinks..... its kind of gone beyond football and even if successful I will struggle to accept the way the club has conducted itself.
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12 Jun 2019 11:14 #2 by dishmonkey
I’m in agreement with what you’ve said . I’ve lost all interest the club , it’s just gone very amateurish since the temporary custodians took over . The whole club is stale from top to bottom but nothing will change as they haven’t got it in them !!! And ask for CUOSC , what’s the point of them ?? They bring nothing to the table !!


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12 Jun 2019 11:24 #3 by Dazzyblue
Unfortunately apathy reigns.... And that's what it is with the season ticket holders. Some of them would still go and watch and buy them if they were Playing in the westmorland league. Unbelievable really. The only way it will change is if the custodians/regime are hounded out.
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12 Jun 2019 11:25 #4 by Laffy
Well that’s what mediocrity does for anything-it’s not exciting, it’s not exhilarating, it’s rarely fun-actually it’s just mediocre.

I can’t remember a time like this in all the years of supporting the Club-50 years to be precise.

As for looking at other clubs in the shit, so what?What the Club needs is some bloody direction and a vision-plodding towards the next season with virtually no backbone in the squad is not turning anyone on.

This is where the Trust can make a splash-give us your vision, not the one of the custodians who are now unpaid employees of EWM.Where do you want the club to go and how it represents the fans and city?
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12 Jun 2019 11:37 #5 by carwash
My feeling is that the board including CUOSC have had a strict talking to by EWM to get their finances in order and run the Club as a business. The fact that JN now has to put money into the club on an annual basis is part of the pressure now on the custodians. EWM will have told the board that the only way to get out of this hole is to run the Club on a breakeven basis or as close as possible. Once that is achieved then selling the Club to a third party with money to invest or even allowing CUOSC to play a larger part in running the Club become possibilities. I believe that it is this prospect of CUOSC becoming more involved as owners that has changed CUOSC's mindset to support fully what the Club has been doing almost in defiance of what most fans would want.

The net result is as Oakley has clearly laid out is a pattern of behaviour that disgusts the supporters. CUOSC would argue though that it is absolutely necessary to achieve what fans long term are looking for - new ownership.

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12 Jun 2019 11:44 #6 by Mullen103
The trust owning the club fully or getting involved heavily are the stuff of nightmares. Yes for fan ownership but not the bloody trust, then we will be in trouble.

Despite my "constant" negativity on here I loved the club, but I could see 7-8 years ago it was going down the pan. It was just shit, hard work and a chore. Things have improved slightly off the field with regards "matchday experience" to an ok level. At the moment its an embarassment supporting this club, full of medocrity and ineptness throughout.

At least we’re not Stockport

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12 Jun 2019 11:46 - 12 Jun 2019 11:46 #7 by heilkmoon
As far as moral compasses go, we're still some way ahead of Crewe although that isn't saying much.

But yes, the collective compasses of Jenkins, Nixon, Clibbens & Holdsworth are currently shrivelled and pointing limply south.

Mind you, it has been cold.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 11:46 by heilkmoon.
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12 Jun 2019 12:01 #8 by markredfox73
We saw that moral compass come off well over 3 years ago when they tried to discredit Claire Winder as she was trying to make a difference to bridging the gap between them and us....but they showed their colours then .....then they let that idiot vice president make offensive remarks about Hillborough and happily sweep it under the table along with pissing more and more fans off with the lies about the billionaire and shafting Laffy in the process
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12 Jun 2019 12:09 - 12 Jun 2019 12:10 #9 by Mullen103

markredfox73 wrote: We saw that moral compass come off well over 3 years ago when they tried to discredit Claire Winder as she was trying to make a difference to bridging the gap between them and us....but they showed their colours then .....then they let that idiot vice president make offensive remarks about Hillborough and happily sweep it under the table along with pissing more and more fans off with the lies about the billionaire and shafting Laffy in the process


That whole fans rep thing was a farce, as I said it would, and would never work with being in the board room and asking for supporters.

However in Winders application, she said she was a strong, independent woman etc. She cried off at the first instance of issues and was nothing more than a pussycat. Yes agree it was difficult for her, but she ran away at the first sign of trouble and lost all respect from me for that. Waste of time!

Yep, any issues through the board sweep under the carpet. We all make mistakes but its how you deal with them thats the issue. The owners are mistake free apparently! or if they do make a mistake they deny!

At least we’re not Stockport
Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 12:10 by Mullen103.

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12 Jun 2019 12:09 #10 by nobbyblue
I was talking to one of the parents of the youth lads the other day and he said that Darren Edmondson was just sacked. Not for any particular reason and without warning.

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12 Jun 2019 12:16 #11 by Oakley
Like i tried to say i 100% understand people always going as there is no CUFC without the fans, but at what point do we look in the mirror and think our behavior as a club is appalling...these are local men, Grainger, Edmondson, Murray who have given a lot to Carlisle...........

Even with Laffy if you think he was right/wrong on the face of it he was a local man trying to help, by all means reject/dismiss the offer BUT there is no excuse for the disgusting comments and manner it was handled and they tried to discredit some-one through insults.

I get there will be 3-4k purely just for the football, and i applaud that but I cant and wont fund a regime that treats people in the above ways.
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12 Jun 2019 13:51 - 12 Jun 2019 13:58 #12 by pacirv
Simple answer NO. So much potential and so little ambition.
I feared the worst the min that FS handed the club over to the present owners, that the only way was down and unless we get new owners or EWM actually take over fully then I can only see it getting worse, if we do drop out of the league again there will be no way back.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 13:58 by pacirv.
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12 Jun 2019 17:36 - 12 Jun 2019 18:30 #13 by Yorkie Blue

Oakley wrote: 1. David Holdsworth - everything about him oozes shark, conman, sleaze, arrogance
2. Treatment of senior players such as Devitt, Collin, Parkes
3. Loss of Danny Grainger - I still believe if CUFC really wanted him involved he would have been
4. Departure of Paul Murray etc in todays perss and how that was handled
5. The treatment and what has been said about Curle
6. Other coaching staff turmoil


1. David Holdsworth = David Brent (The Office).
2. Steven Pressley wants young, fit, fast players, agree, but, we also need an experienced head or three, we may come to regret getting rid of the likes of Devitt, Grainger and Parkes.
3. As above, Danny Grainger wasn`t the quickest but a good gee-er upper to have in the team.
4. 5. 6. either the (ex) staff seem to be treated poorly and are often to blame for present day ills, or the communication, or lack of, coming from the club is equally poor.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 18:30 by CCU. Reason: Attributed quote

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12 Jun 2019 18:09 #14 by Taffy-P
I’m reasonably happy the way the club is run We could be Bury

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12 Jun 2019 18:11 #15 by Laffy
I’m not disagreeing with the change to be honest-the Club was burning cash and it couldn’t go on.But it’s not just about cutting costs-it’s also about increasing turnover.Where is the commercial guy, the local guy like Dick Young, who has a black book of all corporates and sponsors?

But most of all, where are we going?The Custodians/trustees-whatever they call themselves.What is the medium term vision for the Club?That is in their gift.Without a vision, you end up in the chaos and confusion of short term actions, dismantling the fan base as you go along.

I like NC but he is not leading-clearly not selected for that role.Who is it and what’s the vision?
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12 Jun 2019 18:25 #16 by Mullen103

Taffy-P wrote: I’m reasonably happy the way the club is run We could be Bury


Or we could be one of the other 9 sides that finished above us in the league and quite a few league 1 sides that we’re much bigger than.

You’re entitled to your opinion but ask yourself, are you happy with finishing 11th in tier 4? And being in this league for 6 years!

At least we’re not Stockport
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12 Jun 2019 18:41 #17 by Taffy-P

Mullen103 wrote:

Taffy-P wrote: I’m reasonably happy the way the club is run We could be Bury


Or we could be one of the other 9 sides that finished above us in the league and quite a few league 1 sides that we’re much bigger than.

You’re entitled to your opinion but ask yourself, are you happy with finishing 11th in tier 4? And being in this league for 6 years!

im happy enough to renew my season ticket I would like to be a the top end of league 1 but not at any price Bury showed ambition last season look at them now lost their management team best players etc and are knackered might not even have a team

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12 Jun 2019 18:54 #18 by seesaw50

nobbyblue wrote: I was talking to one of the parents of the youth lads the other day and he said that Darren Edmondson was just sacked. Not for any particular reason and without warning.


Is that possible these days or do Football clubs work under different employment laws.? He wasn't made redundant because the position has been advertised so unless he'd received the required warnings how could he just be sacked...nothing has come to light yet on that one

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12 Jun 2019 19:01 #19 by seesaw50

Laffy wrote: I’m not disagreeing with the change to be honest-the Club was burning cash and it couldn’t go on.But it’s not just about cutting costs-it’s also about increasing turnover.Where is the commercial guy, the local guy like Dick Young, who has a black book of all corporates and sponsors?

But most of all, where are we going?The Custodians/trustees-whatever they call themselves.What is the medium term vision for the Club?That is in their gift.Without a vision, you end up in the chaos and confusion of short term actions, dismantling the fan base as you go along.

I like NC but he is not leading-clearly not selected for that role.Who is it and what’s the vision?


Clibbens is merely the accountant..any other roles he had have been usurped by DH
AJ, Nixon and God forbid, Pattison are now figureheads
The Trust are well, The Trust
No Holdsworth would appear to be the Company man working for EWM on all fronts

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12 Jun 2019 19:20 #20 by Mush
It has been said a thousand times but the catchment to attract fans is massive - the whole of Cumbria, over to Hexham and Southwest Scotland. All it(has) needed is some people with a bit of ambition and who know you're going to lose a few quid trying to get up the ladder.

The Fred Story days were the highest we've been in the league pyrimid for years, we should of got promoted and kicked on to be a established championship club that the fans and county deserve. It's [censored] depressing now compared to then and it doesn't look like it will change in the near future which is really sad.

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12 Jun 2019 20:08 #21 by 182blue
No. I think the people running the club come across as complete morons, who it is embarrassing to be associated with as a supporter of said club.
I will never stop going altogether, as it’s my club, but will be going to less games next season.
What I would say , though, about the treatment of some of the players , is that there is an element of hypocrisy there. You can’t blame players for trying to earn a decent living, but your average player shows about as much loyalty and commitment as Russell Brand does to his wife/partner.

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12 Jun 2019 20:32 #22 by Mr Quint
It’s just so poorly run! It’s so frustrating. I’m always going to support Carlisle but seeing Annan or getting to Macclesfield prove to me how limited our custodians are. A match day experience at Annan is actually fun!

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12 Jun 2019 20:33 - 12 Jun 2019 20:35 #23 by MerseysideBlue
While I'd agree that there are many things about the club that are frustrating and not that well run right now, I'm not sure I really buy this "moral compass" nonsense, particularly on the six points raised. You're suggesting that things like this have never never happened before or are out of the ordinary - they've been happening at this club and other clubs for years, nay, decades.

Take the points listed:

1. David Holdsworth - everything about him oozes shark, conman, sleaze, arrogance

Not doubting the man comes across as a bit of a smary arse and dresses like a weirdo, but then so did Keith Curle at times.

2. Treatment of senior players such as Devitt, Collin, Parkes

The contract offers were shite but pretty much every player is being treated the same. No-one is being treated exceptionally - we're taking a big risk and cutting our cloth accordingly.

3. Loss of Danny Grainger - I still believe if CUFC really wanted him involved he would have been

Only Danny really knows the truth on that but the impression I have got is he was happy with his decision and knew that he was struggling to keep himself fit for long periods as each season went by. We could maybe have found him a role but I'd rather it wasn't done out of sentiment - I hope he goes away and does a good job at Reds and potentially becomes our manager in the future.

4. Departure of Paul Murray etc in todays press and how that was handled

What could they have done differently? Murray doesn't seem particularly bitter about it - he's accepted that is the way things work sometimes. Coaches come and go. Pressley maybe came to the conclusion towards the end of the season that he wanted to go down a different direction - he told him not too long after the season ended which is fair enough for me.

5. The treatment and what has been said about Curle

I have to admit that Holdsworth droning on about this is starting to bore the arse off me and it'll be great once all that squad is cleared out and he's out of using that as an excuse...

BUT - let's be fair here, Curle has plenty of times in the past talked about how he had to deal with the problems of the previous managers/squads etc and used it as an excuse for a long time. And as for how he was treated at the end - he failed in his main task of getting us out of the division despite a generous budget - do you think he didn't tout himself to other clubs at any time while with us?

6. Other coaching staff turmoil

Bar sorting out the Academy Manager, seems like it's mostly sorted now. Skelton has the potential to be a future manager and is clearly well thought of. It seems obvious to me that there was a good reason for getting rid of Edmondson which we may or may not find out in the future.


Edit to add - the idea that this summer is something out of the extraordinary is a bit OTT in my opinion - people could do well to remember back to the summers of 2001 and 2002 and what an absolute [censored] shambles of a club we were back then, illegally sacking players amongst other things.

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Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 20:35 by MerseysideBlue. Reason: Additional point
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12 Jun 2019 22:19 - 12 Jun 2019 22:21 #24 by nobbyblue
'Not doubting the man comes across as a bit of a smary arse and dresses like a weirdo, but then so did Keith Curle at times'.

Take that back.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 22:21 by nobbyblue.
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12 Jun 2019 22:40 #25 by Dancingbear

seesaw50 wrote:

Laffy wrote: I’m not disagreeing with the change to be honest-the Club was burning cash and it couldn’t go on.But it’s not just about cutting costs-it’s also about increasing turnover.Where is the commercial guy, the local guy like Dick Young, who has a black book of all corporates and sponsors?

But most of all, where are we going?The Custodians/trustees-whatever they call themselves.What is the medium term vision for the Club?That is in their gift.Without a vision, you end up in the chaos and confusion of short term actions, dismantling the fan base as you go along.

I like NC but he is not leading-clearly not selected for that role.Who is it and what’s the vision?


Clibbens is merely the accountant..any other roles he had have been usurped by DH
AJ, Nixon and God forbid, Pattison are now figureheads
The Trust are well, The Trust
No Holdsworth would appear to be the Company man working for EWM on all fronts


If Clibbens is the accountant then what’s Kidd? She usually gets missed out in these salary discussions. She must be on a decent wage. Could hers and Clibbens role be merged?

There's only one way of life and that's your own!!!

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12 Jun 2019 22:46 #26 by CCU
Not really. Clibbens (Although an Accountant by trade) is Chief Exec and does all kinds, both Club and EFL, whereas Kidd concentrates solely on Finance.

Despite what folk seem to think, any Club should be operating with a Chief Exec, Finance Controller and a Secretary, all seperate, and accountable for their roles (They may have different names at different Clubs, but essentially similar roles)...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

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12 Jun 2019 23:16 - 12 Jun 2019 23:18 #27 by munchymagic

MerseysideBlue wrote: While I'd agree that there are many things about the club that are frustrating and not that well run right now, I'm not sure I really buy this "moral compass" nonsense, particularly on the six points raised. You're suggesting that things like this have never never happened before or are out of the ordinary - they've been happening at this club and other clubs for years, nay, decades.

Take the points listed:

1. David Holdsworth - everything about him oozes shark, conman, sleaze, arrogance

Not doubting the man comes across as a bit of a smary arse and dresses like a weirdo, but then so did Keith Curle at times.

2. Treatment of senior players such as Devitt, Collin, Parkes

The contract offers were shite but pretty much every player is being treated the same. No-one is being treated exceptionally - we're taking a big risk and cutting our cloth accordingly.

3. Loss of Danny Grainger - I still believe if CUFC really wanted him involved he would have been

Only Danny really knows the truth on that but the impression I have got is he was happy with his decision and knew that he was struggling to keep himself fit for long periods as each season went by. We could maybe have found him a role but I'd rather it wasn't done out of sentiment - I hope he goes away and does a good job at Reds and potentially becomes our manager in the future.

4. Departure of Paul Murray etc in todays press and how that was handled

What could they have done differently? Murray doesn't seem particularly bitter about it - he's accepted that is the way things work sometimes. Coaches come and go. Pressley maybe came to the conclusion towards the end of the season that he wanted to go down a different direction - he told him not too long after the season ended which is fair enough for me.

5. The treatment and what has been said about Curle

I have to admit that Holdsworth droning on about this is starting to bore the arse off me and it'll be great once all that squad is cleared out and he's out of using that as an excuse...

BUT - let's be fair here, Curle has plenty of times in the past talked about how he had to deal with the problems of the previous managers/squads etc and used it as an excuse for a long time. And as for how he was treated at the end - he failed in his main task of getting us out of the division despite a generous budget - do you think he didn't tout himself to other clubs at any time while with us?

6. Other coaching staff turmoil

Bar sorting out the Academy Manager, seems like it's mostly sorted now. Skelton has the potential to be a future manager and is clearly well thought of. It seems obvious to me that there was a good reason for getting rid of Edmondson which we may or may not find out in the future.


Edit to add - the idea that this summer is something out of the extraordinary is a bit OTT in my opinion - people could do well to remember back to the summers of 2001 and 2002 and what an absolute [censored] shambles of a club we were back then, illegally sacking players amongst other things.


One of the worst, unbalanced posts I have read in a while.

You went on more about Curle than Holdsworth does.

"Not doubting the man comes across as a bit of a smary arse and dresses like a weirdo, but then so did Keith Curle at times."

You obviously 'like' Holdsworth a lot, weird how that was a bullet point of yours.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2019 23:18 by munchymagic.

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12 Jun 2019 23:34 #28 by MerseysideBlue
Couldn't be further from the truth munchy - I think Holdsworth has talked a good game occasionally but also think he likes the sound of his own voice and talks a lot of shite too. I think he's taking a big risk with this one-year deal policy and I really do wish he would stfu about what he inherited from Curle - he's made his point and needs to stop twining and get on with it as no-one cares.

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13 Jun 2019 09:52 #29 by thesilentone
Part of our problem is the average age of the supporters, we are not attracting the new young blood, therefore we are withering on the vine.

The average age in the Boardroom is similar, has-been's.

Curle was given the support to get us up, he failed, we are now paying the consequences.

But, we seem top-heavy, we are a Third (fourth) tier Club, with dwindling support, a new business shape and model is needed.

But, we are fortunate AJ has dibbed-in, without him we would not be here.

The old guard at CUFC remember the ' good old days ' and think we are capable of re-inventing them. Not a snowballs chance in hxxl !!

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