That pot’s gone platinum...

I think that a certain businessman of our acquaintance has an interest in this. He’ll be throwing away his solid gold piss-pots in favour of platinum ones. Battery technology is big business and companies like this are only going to thrive.

How soon before you’re a billionaire, Laffy?

www.theengineer.co.uk/hyperdrive-uk-battery-manufacturing/

If you suck it any harder it will turn blue and fall off.

Old technology, no future for Lithium, although stable the new technologies offer more energy storage with less charging time.

But, they are not ready for market yet.........

Keep your eyes on Mr Dyson.

I wonder if they said that about going to the moon in 1969-let’s wait 40 years until the new tech works.

The thing about our tech is it works and has been commercialised-we provide the cell/battery brain so can put it on other non lithium cells.

The JCB digger is fantastic verification for my company.Likewise our battery run robot customer.

Our tech and cells are also running the Johann Cruyff stadium in Amsterdam.

Maybe 40 weeks:

www.iflscience.com/technology/new-dual-c...-faster-lithium-ion/

and,

www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets/news/130380-...d-power-over-the-air

Thanks for this-it’s all about cost per kWh so will be interesting to see what they can achieve.Meantime, it’s Nissan/Envision cat cells for us

Sorry-car, not cat, cells

Imagine the fortunes possible if you actually did possess a pot.....

www.instructables.com/id/The-Pee-Battery/

More acknowledgement for Hyperdrive.

www.business-live.co.uk/technology/thars...named-among-16872868

Laffy, please ring up Carlisle Glass and ask if they’d be interested in running the building on your batteries. Then tell them they couldn’t afford it.
Please.

We are only focussed on big corporates just now with respect to Carlisle Glass-have a look at the Johann Cruyff arena which is our system.

The JCB excavator is selling like hot cakes-they can’t build them quick enough.

I’m very proud of the guys at Hyperdrive-from a little company in Washington to global player-I hope!

You really have to look into Rail. Next big thing as Government doesn’t want to put wires up.

Good point-we are High Street.Our work with JCB has given us huge verification in the market as their product is used in the most extreme conditions

How do you recharge an electric mini-digger on-site with no mains supply ?

The current excavator should get through a day’s work without recharge but depends on work pattern-you would use a generator to recharge overnight typically if no mains available.

You will see battery driven generators soon.

Diesel coming to an end whether we like it or not due to emission changes.

So,what capacity is the genset, and what is it's carbon footprint/CO2 emissions v the mini-digger operating on diesel ?

Bear in mind the genset needs to be delivered / collected from site by some means of transport.

I've been told they will not operate on electric for a full working day, this of course is a real minus v diesel, and if a boost charge is needed a very large genset is required that is in fact of much greater power than the mini-digger it is charging.

Something missing somewhere ?

Good questions-I will get the tech stuff for you.

All I would say is JCB are selling these faster than they can build them and of course we have diesel emission legislation kicking in across the world.

They are perfect for short-term hire and specific jobs, however longer than one day may see the weakness in the objective, if re-charging is required on-site.

Surely the future must be quick-change batteries rather than long waits at re-charging points ?

Ultra capacitors could be a possible future replacement for battery packs, the storage capacity may not be as high (yet), but they`re lighter in weight, charge more quickly and can withstand a far greater number of charge / discharge cycles than conventional batteries.

See attached for the demo.

JCB reckon the typical working day for a mini excavator in Uk is about 5 hours after taking account of tea breaks etc!

Anyway, the new BMS will create longer time between charges and more cycles.

There are numerous companies inventing battery stuff just now but few who have actually cracked it and got into commercial production.

I doubt whether diesel will disappear as quickly as people think, certainly for road vehicles. The range isn't anywhere near good enough yet, its not bad but when you start addingload plus the normal vehicle consumers, lighting, heating, other accessories, the range starts to get hit. Then there's the lack of charge stations, charge point rage will be the next newspaper headline! There's a long way to go! Hydrogen cell is the real future.........

The demand will come from government legislation which is already kicking in and will only get harder for diesel-zero emission policy.

Anyway, this is about first to market-not waiting around for hydrogen or some other chemistry that is still in someone’s head.

We also do battery packs for robots in supermarket fulfilment centres where there is massive growth and it’s now-not in 5 years time.

I’ve seen this video and so have JCB-all I can say is the machines are selling like hot cakes and of course you need to follow the instructions on charging instead of listening to Ned Ludd.

I agree, it does not make pleasant viewing, however, it is difficult to argue against.

Renewable's and low emission products need to be carefully scrutinised, the future requires sustainability and for this reason many areas of business have a sustainability criteria to meet when accepting Government hand-outs.

Already Solar is brewing as the next PPI, tens of thousands of claims are being made with Solar Companies going bust daily as the liabilities mount.

'Saying and doing' is important in the low emission market, pointless having a zero emission mini digger if it takes 30 gallons of diesel to charge it.

As always, there is someone out there who simply cannot deal with a success story-much easier to be negative.

JCB are one of the world’s greatest brands and hugely respected-let’s just say I put my faith in them rather than an overweight builder with a foul mouth!!

Bruntonpasty wrote: I doubt whether diesel will disappear as quickly as people think, certainly for road vehicles. The range isn't anywhere near good enough yet, its not bad but when you start addingload plus the normal vehicle consumers, lighting, heating, other accessories, the range starts to get hit. Then there's the lack of charge stations, charge point rage will be the next newspaper headline! There's a long way to go! Hydrogen cell is the real future.........

Surely LPG and CNG will fill the diesel void. No significant changes needed, however low emission and produced in a sustainable way.

Jumping on the electric band-wagon is OK, as long as the whole life cycle is sustainable. Solar has been missold by the 100's of Thousands, with many using pensions, savings and borrowings to invest only to find out years later it was all bxxl sxxt. If you have children in the 16-18 yo category, tell them to study law, as there services will be in demand.

My experience of solar is pretty poor-a decent scheme taken over by cowboys and banks who stripped the tariffs from the householders on the basis they got free kit and electric.Many of the panels weren’t even connected up!

Battery technology is not a band wagon-it’s very real and it’s used in environments not relying on subsidy.

Electric has been ticked off for motor cars for sometime, although not taking a direct tariff, however lots of Government R&D support money to be had.

The whole issue should/is be about sustainability, and charging a electric mini-digger for eight hours with a diesel generator is not sustainable - is it ?

Or should they be sold exclusively for short-term (less than one day hire) unless it can be proved that the means of charging is from a sustainable source, otherwise it all looks a bit silly.

Tesla have announced they have made (?), developed a battery that will power a car for a million miles.
Hydrogen is no good. While it's all around us it's hellish difficult to get into gas form required. They get it from methane so it's easier to just use methane.

The excavator market is almost all rental and I cannot think of many scenarios where there isn’t Main’s electric nearby.Anyway I would rather defer to JCB and their market intelligence than some YouTube guru trying to make a point.

Saw the article Marko-I think the Tesla thing is a long way off being commercialised and as I said before,it’s about first to market.

I agree you analysis of Hydrogen-I have seen a few companies who claim to be able to store it safely in all manner of compounds but seen nothing that has really been commercialised

It surprises me that the JCBs don't have batteries that can easily be changed int he field, so if you were working in the middle of nowhere you could have a ready charged spare on hand giving you twice the battery life.

I use lithium batteries for my cameras. They are flipping expensive, well over £100 each and are designed to be an intregal part of the camera to help avoid folk using cheap imitations (there are cheap imitations about but not as reliable). I always take a spare with me, just in case and can change them over in seconds. They remain charged for months if you don't use them. My oldest is over ten years old and still going strong. As long as you completely drain the battery before a re-charge they seem to go on for ever.

I don't think of them as "green" cos I charge them from my home electric supply, but they are a quality product that does the job.

Correct Bumble-spares will be part of the package

Laffy wrote: The excavator market is almost all rental and I cannot think of many scenarios where there isn’t Main’s electric nearby.Anyway I would rather defer to JCB and their market intelligence than some YouTube guru trying to make a point.

Saw the article Marko-I think the Tesla thing is a long way off being commercialised and as I said before,it’s about first to market.

I agree you analysis of Hydrogen-I have seen a few companies who claim to be able to store it safely in all manner of compounds but seen nothing that has really been commercialised

No sure about the availability of mains supply in the rental market. Most mini's are hired by contractors who are working in the streets for the utilities, on council projects or projects that are unfinished (sites) so no mains supply is available. It you had multiple electric diggers on a site, which all charge simultaneously so the carbon offset of them is higher than the energy required to charge - great.

The other area is cost, most hires are made up of the hire charge + delivery + fuel, who is factoring the cost of energy to charge the diggers ?

You are right about being first to market, and JCB's brand guarantees sales, however you also have to protect the goose that lays the golden eggs by ensuring you can withstand scrutiny. The sustainable world is very fickle with many waiting to shoot you down, there is a much bigger picture than selling a few diggers.

As I said,I’m happy to defer to one of the world’s largest machinery manufacturers on the market!

JCB has a great reputation however they are not first at the table with electric excavators, however they are slow on the reality and implications.

Our foreign counterparts have truck charging units that carry out multiple tasks, as well as charging excavators, on-site tools are plugged in etc.

So JCB are playing catch up.

To keep it is perspective, they are not in the top ten of Construction machinery manufacturers- Worldwide. (they are still a great Company)

Are JCB like a car dealership and franchised?

Whenever we had to send them stock in the past it was to various parts of the country - one thing that certainly stuck out was that they are notoriously bad at payments.

Lost count of the times that they were on 'stop' as they hadn't paid an eight month old invoice - the only way that you could usually get them to stump up was if they wanted more stock and you would make them square up old invoices till you sent it.

They get a lot of flack because the Israelis seem to always use JCBs when they're knocking down poor people's houses.

JCB are one of the top three machinery construction manufacturers in the world-and we get paid on time.

Most of their product goes into the rental market via construction and related supply companies.

No 12, see page 3.........

www.usubc.org/files/Zeppelin_top_50_manu...tion%20machinery.pdf

FFS-does it really matter?

Once again I’m defending something on this board, this time one of the greatest UK companies that employs 12000 people across the world-one that has contracted my company to start electrification of their products.

Let’s see where we are in 12 months time mate.Meantime, I suggest you turn your negativity towards the football club, something that is badly underperforming

Laffy wrote: My experience of solar is pretty poor-a decent scheme taken over by cowboys and banks who stripped the tariffs from the householders on the basis they got free kit and electric.Many of the panels weren’t even connected up!

Battery technology is not a band wagon-it’s very real and it’s used in environments not relying on subsidy.

Laffy - genuine question - what do you see providing the electrcity to charge the batteries?

At a place we've got there is a field attached. We were quoted 15k to put in a windmill including storage batteries that would power the main house and the cottage. Its not economical at the moment but if we bought electric cars to replace the petrol ones it would be.
The biggest issue we were told is getting planning permission for the windmill. Thats why the field is good because the tower needs an acre of land according to the planner

I think you will see a new generation of generators backed by solar/mains-meantime it’s mains to charge.

Laffy wrote: FFS-does it really matter?

Once again I’m defending something on this board, this time one of the greatest UK companies that employs 12000 people across the world-one that has contracted my company to start electrification of their products.

Let’s see where we are in 12 months time mate.Meantime, I suggest you turn your negativity towards the football club, something that is badly underperforming

No, it doesn't really matter, but rose tinted glasses are dangerous things, the only reason electricity has the momentum is much reduced (zero) emissions and in some cases noise, however the story has to be complete, and as stated, the availability to charge via mains in many cases is not available. This should be seen as a opportunity not a negative, and rather than try and defend it, find a good solution. Some are using a small on-board engine to charge the unit, and make it self-sufficient as a compromise, however the 'green ' credentials need to proven and protected, as I say, this is more than just selling a few diggers.

"A few diggers" im sure Laffy will consult your opinion before getting involved in any more crackpot ideas.

ParcelPete wrote: "A few diggers" im sure Laffy will consult your opinion before getting involved in any more crackpot ideas.

The market is being driven by CO2 reduction targets, however the green agenda on energy generation is highly subsidised (rightly so) to hit our Kyoto agreement renewable targets, and CO2 reduction targets, the engine behind it all is the word ' sustainable '. So, solar, wind, biogas, biomass, air source, ground source, fracking etal all get well paid by us (the UK taxpayer) to make the investment worthwhile.

Transport and Construction are massive CO2 emitters, so although not subsidised directly by tariffs,(like generation) they are paid a subsidy via the significant R&D pot set aside for new technology. However, the sustainable credentials are not always credible, and my argument or point is how can anything electrical that takes more energy to charge it, than the output it provides be classed as sustainable. Unless that charging energy comes from a sustainable CO2 neutral source ? if not, what is the point ?

How is Ecotricity doing? I saw the bonds Carwash was talking about, 5 - 7.5% pa return over 5 years. That's very good if the risk is low

Batteries are all storage-that means taking excess or cheap power off the grid.Its not about subsidies-Hyperdrive’s model does not rely on any benevolent hand outs