'Football fortune' this season

  • pedals
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Youth Team Player
  • Youth Team Player
More
05 Nov 2019 13:58 #1 by pedals
'Football fortune' this season was created by pedals
The thread on Branthwaite got me thinking about the potential cash windfall in the next 12 months or so.

Off the top of my head, it's rumoured that there's a clause in Dean Henderson's contract at Sheffield United that we'll receive a fee if/when he makes his full England debut and again rumoured that there's a good sell-on clause in Sam Cosgrove's contract at Aberdeen if/when he moves on. Given Sheffield United's form and Cosgrove's goalscoring run, it's possible that we'll receive a sum of money for both in the next 12 months or so. We've recently received a fee for the two young players who moved to Leeds and will be set for £100k+ if we beat Dulwich on Friday. On top of that, if the rumours are true that Branthwaite is being monitored by PL clubs and we choose to sell, we'll also receive a decent amount of money for him.

I'm not sure of the exact nature of those clauses and any amounts we'd receive, but it's potentially a lucrative period for us. With a bit of luck we'll be looking much healthier financially in the next year or so.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 14:09 #2 by ROOSTER
Replied by ROOSTER on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Dean Henderson future No.1 @ Old Trafford...
The following user(s) Liked this post:: ParcelPete

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 14:14 #3 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Whatever football fortune we might receive certainly won't be invested in players that's for sure
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Wukkie, triskelionblue, Yorkie Blue

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 15:42 #4 by musher441
Replied by musher441 on topic 'Football fortune' this season
I don't want us to get any windfalls for the next couple of seasons .
Any money coming in will just put the 3 reluctant custodians in a stronger and more comfortable position.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • cufcmike
  • cufcmike's Avatar
  • Away
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
More
05 Nov 2019 15:52 #5 by cufcmike
Replied by cufcmike on topic 'Football fortune' this season
It's pretty common when Championship Clubs sign players to offer a further windfall to the selling club after promotion. Could we want Leeds to go up?
The following user(s) Liked this post:: CarlisleWhite

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 15:58 #6 by Waltero
Replied by Waltero on topic 'Football fortune' this season
If that's the case, begrudgingly yes

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 16:01 #7 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic 'Football fortune' this season
I think any football fortune will see a call by the debt reduction department -and I don’t blame them as I would do the same myself.As would most of us.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 16:05 #8 by CCU
Replied by CCU on topic 'Football fortune' this season

cufcmike wrote: It's pretty common when Championship Clubs sign players to offer a further windfall to the selling club after promotion. Could we want Leeds to go up?


Yes we would...

Win or Lose, Up The Blues!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 17:42 #9 by Mush
Replied by Mush on topic 'Football fortune' this season

CCU wrote:

cufcmike wrote: It's pretty common when Championship Clubs sign players to offer a further windfall to the selling club after promotion. Could we want Leeds to go up?


Yes we would...


Dirty Leeds can stay in the championship for me!
The following user(s) Liked this post:: ParcelPete, CarlisleWhite, franksidebottom

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 18:13 - 06 Nov 2019 15:51 #10 by Wukkie
Replied by Wukkie on topic 'Football fortune' this season
I'd tend to agree Mush but would also like to see them get humped every other week and go straight back down with less than 25 pts.
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 15:51 by Wukkie.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: melbourneblues, Mush, ParcelPete

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Nov 2019 18:32 #11 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Leeds united goalkeeper has been charged with using racist language against Charlton.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 04:16 #12 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic 'Football fortune' this season
If there is money in it for us i hope they win the champions league. Who cares about these premier teams and their glory hunting fans?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 07:41 #13 by Burneside Blue
Replied by Burneside Blue on topic 'Football fortune' this season

ParcelPete wrote: Leeds united goalkeeper has been charged with using racist language against Charlton.

Bobby or Jack?
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Dancingbear

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 07:53 #14 by CarlisleWhite
Replied by CarlisleWhite on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Burneside Blue wrote:

ParcelPete wrote: Leeds united goalkeeper has been charged with using racist language against Charlton.

Bobby or Jack?

Made me laugh, but Pete is the one supposed to make the jokes, not have them against him.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: ParcelPete

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • thetashkentterror
  • Offline
  • Reserve Squad
  • Reserve Squad
More
06 Nov 2019 09:33 #15 by thetashkentterror
Replied by thetashkentterror on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Markovitch wrote: If there is money in it for us i hope they win the champions league. Who cares about these premier teams and their glory hunting fans?



You seemingly if you're quite happy to go and watch games in a lower league competition into which their B teams have been shoe-horned.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 09:39 #16 by Markovitch
Replied by Markovitch on topic 'Football fortune' this season
I'm there to watch Carlisle United. I don't choose games based on the opposition, just going to the big games

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 11:57 - 06 Nov 2019 12:07 #17 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Laffy wrote: I think any football fortune will see a call by the debt reduction department -and I don’t blame them as I would do the same myself.As would most of us.


But if you let football fortune money be used to invest in the club, like trying to get better players in or offer something better than one year contracts, then the club is more likely to be successful and generate more income, which can then be used to pay debts surely?
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 12:07 by Kessler.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Waltero

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 13:39 #18 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Correct Kessler-precisely why I wanted all debt converted or written off.No debt, no call on football fortune-so it all stays in club.If you are owed money and it’s subject to a PG, you are bound to grab cash when it comes in

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 14:06 #19 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic 'Football fortune' this season

cufcmike wrote: It's pretty common when Championship Clubs sign players to offer a further windfall to the selling club after promotion. Could we want Leeds to go up?


No

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 14:57 - 06 Nov 2019 14:59 #20 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Laffy wrote: Correct Kessler-precisely why I wanted all debt converted or written off.No debt, no call on football fortune-so it all stays in club.If you are owed money and it’s subject to a PG, you are bound to grab cash when it comes in


Can you explain what that means? Because I thought from reading your last post it sounded like you were saying if the club owed you money and it got a football fortune income, you'd want them to use some of it to pay down their debt rather than reinvest in the club?
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 14:59 by Kessler.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 16:18 #21 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Why do you call it a loan Kes?Because you believe you will it want to be repaid.

If not, it’s either an investment in equity or a gift.

So-faced with being frogmarched out of BP but being still owed a couple of million, what would you do?

Note my proposal was always equity-not repayable.Good old fashioned long term cash.

I await your learned response with interest.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: seesaw50

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 16:35 #22 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic 'Football fortune' this season
I'd invest it in the stewards and maybe give patty a couple of quid.

At least we’re not Stockport
The following user(s) Liked this post:: bejustandfearprokas, Kessler

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 17:37 - 06 Nov 2019 17:55 #23 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Laffy wrote: Why do you call it a loan Kes?Because you believe you will it want to be repaid.

If not, it’s either an investment in equity or a gift.

So-faced with being frogmarched out of BP but being still owed a couple of million, what would you do?

Note my proposal was always equity-not repayable.Good old fashioned long term cash.

I await your learned response with interest.


If I understand correctly, you said that football fortune money would be used to pay down debt and that you would want the same if the debt was owed to you. But then you said debt should be written off or converted. I'm confused, if the club debt was owed to you would you want them to use football fortune money to repay you or would you write off that debt/convert it, and let the football fortune be used for investing in the club? Seems to be a bit of crossed wires and I'm wondering if I've misunderstood something?
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 17:55 by Kessler.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 18:08 #24 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic 'Football fortune' this season
FFS Kes

The club owes the stakeholders £3m?They are hanging around showing no sign of leaving.They have PGs on the loans.

A surprise sale of a player creates a cash pot.You know you will be leaving soon so do you

A-leave all the money in the club and carry on with loans hanging over you or

B.Use the cash to pay down some of the debt and reduce your PGs

I reckon 99pc will go for option B

My proposal involved writing off all debt so B was not an option or temptation.And why would I invest in a broken business to see my money be used to pay off dead loans?

The loans are currently worthless but would have some value if a player was sold for cash-it then depends what the stakeholders would do with the cash.

My structure involved no debt so it made the club investable and frankly allow the directors to not just sell players on the first offer
The following user(s) Liked this post:: CumbrianAbacist

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 18:43 #25 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Laffy wrote: FFS Kes

The club owes the stakeholders £3m?They are hanging around showing no sign of leaving.They have PGs on the loans.

A surprise sale of a player creates a cash pot.You know you will be leaving soon so do you

A-leave all the money in the club and carry on with loans hanging over you or

B.Use the cash to pay down some of the debt and reduce your PGs

I reckon 99pc will go for option B

My proposal involved writing off all debt so B was not an option or temptation.And why would I invest in a broken business to see my money be used to pay off dead loans?

The loans are currently worthless but would have some value if a player was sold for cash-it then depends what the stakeholders would do with the cash.

My structure involved no debt so it made the club investable and frankly allow the directors to not just sell players on the first offer


I don't know why you are saying ffs as all I did was ask you a question. I don't know much about the business side of things, when you say things like PG I'm not really sure what you mean by that, or what it stands for. Would help if you could explain it in a way that I understand. When I read your post it looked to me like you were saying that if the club owed you money and they got some football fortune cash, you would want that money to go to you. But now it seems like you weren't saying that and I got it wrong?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 18:44 #26 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Firstly you need to look to clear the club of debt , making a it a far more attractive business to invest in , secondly you need to invest in the infrastructure , better commercial revenues , better training facilities, That makes is stronger in the long run.
Offering player players big contracts without a long term source of income is like winning the lottery and spending all on flash cars will be great for a few years but no fun when your broke and can't afford to fill them up.

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 18:49 #27 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Happyblue wrote: Firstly you need to look to clear the club of debt , making a it a far more attractive business to invest in , secondly you need to invest in the infrastructure , better commercial revenues , better training facilities, That makes is stronger in the long run.


Where is the money going to come from to invest in the infrastructure and better facilities if any income you get has gone towards paying off debt? A football club isn't exactly like an average business, but it's still true that it needs money in order to invest and generate income. A club having debt isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as that debt is being used in the right way, generating future income.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 18:58 #28 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: FFS Kes

The club owes the stakeholders £3m?They are hanging around showing no sign of leaving.They have PGs on the loans.

A surprise sale of a player creates a cash pot.You know you will be leaving soon so do you

A-leave all the money in the club and carry on with loans hanging over you or

B.Use the cash to pay down some of the debt and reduce your PGs

I reckon 99pc will go for option B

My proposal involved writing off all debt so B was not an option or temptation.And why would I invest in a broken business to see my money be used to pay off dead loans?

The loans are currently worthless but would have some value if a player was sold for cash-it then depends what the stakeholders would do with the cash.

My structure involved no debt so it made the club investable and frankly allow the directors to not just sell players on the first offer


I don't know why you are saying ffs as all I did was ask you a question. I don't know much about the business side of things, when you say things like PG I'm not really sure what you mean by that, or what it stands for. Would help if you could explain it in a way that I understand. When I read your post it looked to me like you were saying that if the club owed you money and they got some football fortune cash, you would want that money to go to you. But now it seems like you weren't saying that and I got it wrong?


Personal Guarantees ......same as a loan if needed

Baffled me for ages as well.

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 19:01 - 06 Nov 2019 19:02 #29 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

seesaw50 wrote:

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: FFS Kes

The club owes the stakeholders £3m?They are hanging around showing no sign of leaving.They have PGs on the loans.

A surprise sale of a player creates a cash pot.You know you will be leaving soon so do you

A-leave all the money in the club and carry on with loans hanging over you or

B.Use the cash to pay down some of the debt and reduce your PGs

I reckon 99pc will go for option B

My proposal involved writing off all debt so B was not an option or temptation.And why would I invest in a broken business to see my money be used to pay off dead loans?

The loans are currently worthless but would have some value if a player was sold for cash-it then depends what the stakeholders would do with the cash.

My structure involved no debt so it made the club investable and frankly allow the directors to not just sell players on the first offer


I don't know why you are saying ffs as all I did was ask you a question. I don't know much about the business side of things, when you say things like PG I'm not really sure what you mean by that, or what it stands for. Would help if you could explain it in a way that I understand. When I read your post it looked to me like you were saying that if the club owed you money and they got some football fortune cash, you would want that money to go to you. But now it seems like you weren't saying that and I got it wrong?


Personal Guarantees ......same as a loan if needed

Baffled me for ages as well.


So what exactly is meant by reducing your PG? If the debt is owed to you, and you want that debt to be written off and for the club to keep the money, surely there's some mechanism you can use and formally declare that you don't want that money back? Sorry if it seems a silly question, I just don't really understand the business side of it and even the terminology is a bit confusing for me.
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 19:02 by Kessler.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 19:04 #30 by melbourneblues
Replied by melbourneblues on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Yeah of course it is Kessler, I reckon you know more than you’re letting on.

Mullen is a virgin.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 20:23 #31 by Laffy
Replied by Laffy on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Funnily enough, I was thinking the same thing-good job he’s not in charge and commanding a big salary eh.

Kes-the loans are called loans because you expect to get it back.The structure of the club is such that the Trust will not allow share subscriptions because they have no money-implication being that new shares dilute the existing shareholdings.For the Trust, that would mean them dropping below 25pc and losing a lot of power.

So over the years, new money has been injected by Fred, directors etc as loans-non dilutive on equity but essentially making the club look ever more insolvent-because loans are temporary.

Now the club owes around £3m?in loans.As the club is loss making, the chances of repayment are remote-unless a windfall comes along A sale of a player would hopefully create surplus cash-that cash would be tempting to the lenders to recover value.

As an potential investor, you look at the balance sheet.Its stuffed full of debt so the danger is obvious-putting money in could see your money simply being used to repay debt when the intention was to invest for the long term benefit of the club.A weak balance sheet stuffed full of debt makes it uninvestable.

So to the current stakeholders owed millions.If a windfall comes along, it’s a great opportunity to recover value-I wouldn’t blame them for doing it.Remember my view is EWM are simply acting like a bank-banks like to see loans being repaid.

Hope this makes sense.My view is that the club cannot move forward without these loans being cleared out-written off or repaid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 20:24 - 06 Nov 2019 20:26 #32 by Happyblue
Replied by Happyblue on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Kessler wrote:

Happyblue wrote: Firstly you need to look to clear the club of debt , making a it a far more attractive business to invest in , secondly you need to invest in the infrastructure , better commercial revenues , better training facilities, That makes is stronger in the long run.


Where is the money going to come from to invest in the infrastructure and better facilities if any income you get has gone towards paying off debt? A football club isn't exactly like an average business, but it's still true that it needs money in order to invest and generate income. A club having debt isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as that debt is being used in the right way, generating future income.

Kessler read the order. You clear the debt then you invest in the club so it can create revenue streams and then you use the money to invest in players.

Kessler it's quite simple you invest in the long term future not the the short term.

Owners like the stadium, full of Sh!T
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 20:26 by Happyblue.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 20:38 #33 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic 'Football fortune' this season
Think of being short of money so you use your credit card for day to day spending and other stuff, so racking up a balance over time.
Your income doesnt increase to allow you to pay off enough to bring down the balance significantly, and you keep using the card so adding to your debt to the credit card company.
Then you have a bit of a win on the lottery, what do you do ? Paying a chunk off the ever increasing card would make sense.

Bit simplistic I know.......not sure about the other bits laffy talks about.

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 20:41 #34 by seesaw50
Replied by seesaw50 on topic 'Football fortune' this season
When do we expect to get any cash for McCarron and Galloway, should we have had any up front....so some paying down must have taken place already

To have been born Cumbrian
is to have won the lottery of life !

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 21:08 #35 by carwash
Replied by carwash on topic 'Football fortune' this season
I'm not surprised Kessler is confused. The next accounts will show only two significant loans outstanding, EWM for about £2 million and the Pioneer loan which shrinks each year as sponsorship payments are deducted. AJ and JN will have converted all their loans to B shares. Laffy's point is quite simple. The custodians have personally guaranteed the repayment of the EWM loan so paying some of that off with any windfall would reduce their potential obligation. It would be nice if there was money to invest in the club but keeping it going is the priority.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: seesaw50

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 21:18 #36 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Laffy wrote: So to the current stakeholders owed millions.If a windfall comes along, it’s a great opportunity to recover value-I wouldn’t blame them for doing it.Remember my view is EWM are simply acting like a bank-banks like to see loans being repaid.


I understand that bit. But in order to pay off loans you need to be generating income. If any windfall the club gets just goes into paying down existing debt rather than investing in long term growth, how does the club generate enough income to keep paying that debt once the windfall has run out? If that money was instead used on trying to get better players in, that might mean better results on the pitch, higher attendances, more money coming in, and then you're in a better financial position to pay down debts. Short term I suppose it makes sense to see football fortune money as a way to pay down debt, but what's the plan when that money runs out?

Laffy wrote: Hope this makes sense.My view is that the club cannot move forward without these loans being cleared out-written off or repaid.


Yeah thanks, and sorry if it seems a silly question, I just find it quite a confusing subject and had no idea what a PG was until today.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2019 21:32 #37 by ParcelPete
Replied by ParcelPete on topic 'Football fortune' this season

Kessler wrote:

Laffy wrote: So to the current stakeholders owed millions.If a windfall comes along, it’s a great opportunity to recover value-I wouldn’t blame them for doing it.Remember my view is EWM are simply acting like a bank-banks like to see loans being repaid.


I understand that bit. But in order to pay off loans you need to be generating income. If any windfall the club gets just goes into paying down existing debt rather than investing in long term growth, how does the club generate enough income to keep paying that debt once the windfall has run out? If that money was instead used on trying to get better players in, that might mean better results on the pitch, higher attendances, more money coming in, and then you're in a better financial position to pay down debts. Short term I suppose it makes sense to see football fortune money as a way to pay down debt, but what's the plan when that money runs out?

Laffy wrote: Hope this makes sense.My view is that the club cannot move forward without these loans being cleared out-written off or repaid.


Yeah thanks, and sorry if it seems a silly question, I just find it quite a confusing subject and had no idea what a PG was until today.


You should have said,i could have given you some PG Tips.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: pigeonpete, Mullen103, CCU, Southernblue, thetashkentterror and 3 other people also said thanks.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • thetashkentterror
  • Offline
  • Reserve Squad
  • Reserve Squad
More
07 Nov 2019 11:57 #38 by thetashkentterror
Replied by thetashkentterror on topic 'Football fortune' this season
PG means nee tits in the film.
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Waltero

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Nov 2019 13:27 #39 by Mullen103
Replied by Mullen103 on topic 'Football fortune' this season

thetashkentterror wrote: PG means nee tits in the film.


Explains it all - There all in the boardroom instead

At least we’re not Stockport
The following user(s) Liked this post:: Kessler

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.317 seconds
Website and all content © Copyright 2019 TheCumbrians.net. All Rights Reserved.