VAR

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11 Nov 2019 21:01 #1 by Piglet_Phoenix
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What a shambles.

I have experience of VAR in the flesh in the MLS over here - I consistently said all last season, if it was applied the same way in the UK it would eventually cause a riot. What I will say is, the FA have taken the MLS variety of VAR and made it worse.

Over here "major decisions" would be automatically reviewed - red cards, goals, penalties. The VAR would view the game remotely - if the referee was deemed to have possibly made "a clear and obvious error" they are called over to the pitchside monitor to review their original decision. The responsibility for the decision remains with the referee inside the stadium.

Even with the MLS use of VAR there have been dubious red cards dished out, stonewall penalties overturned - soft penalties awarded, goals bizarrely chalked off - you get the picture. In North America, in complete honesty, the majority of people (including officials) don't really understand the rules of the game and how to apply them - so bizarre refereeing goes with the territory. However, if you put this sh1t show in the context of the English game and these kind of decisions directly impact promotion / relegation / Champions League qualification etc - sooner or later we'll have meltdown.

By their very nature, the application of the laws of the game is subjective - and people make mistakes. By introducing a referee sitting hundreds of miles away in a studio all you're doing is adding another opinion to the mix - increasing the uncertainty - and letting a remote faceless voice call the shots. They don't see the incident up close and personal on the pitch and in real time - when you slow an incident down to a millionth of the speed and use your computer to paint dubious lines on pitches - you can demonstrate just about anything you like.

If the referee is deemed to made a howler - then by all means get them over to the TV screen to take a minute (no longer) to review the call - but the decision itself needs to ultimately sit with the referee on the pitch.

While I'm on about it - what exactly is a "natural position" for your hand?
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11 Nov 2019 21:10 #2 by Seekaye
Replied by Seekaye on topic VAR
Or just live with it like we have since football was invented. Oh and we still live with it in league 2. The whole thing is pandering to whinging premier league managers who cry when a decision goes against them. They should sack the whole thing off
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11 Nov 2019 21:44 - 11 Nov 2019 21:45 #3 by 182blue
Replied by 182blue on topic VAR
They have been making a point over the last few years of going on about goals being offside, even though it was very tight and they were saying it was ridiculous in this day and age that they can’t use replays.
It has also been generally accepted that diving is OK. It used to be that you had to get scythed down to get a penalty.
The handball thing seems to be that they have changed the law because of incidents of blatant cheating being made to look like an ‘accidental handball’ so they decided to lower the bar about what counts as a penalty.
If fans hate VAR they need to change their mindset and just want players to get on with the game, not try to con the ref all the time. Time to press CTRL ALT Delete , scrap VAR and have a rethink about acceptable player and manager conduct, so fans can just watch a game of football and Robbie Savage and do can get their P45s.
Last edit: 11 Nov 2019 21:45 by 182blue.
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01 Dec 2019 23:27 #4 by bruntonpete
Replied by bruntonpete on topic VAR
Sucking the life out of all the moments that make football the exciting game it is.
Im no technophobe but it certainly doesn't seem to be a benefit to the game.
I like the idea that each team can use it twice in a game - a bit like cricket. That puts the emphasis on the team and they would have to be selective of when it is used.
The game needs its talking points, occasional controversial moments and decisions and above all, the pure adrenalin rush the big incidents deserve.

For many of the decisions, we are talking millimetres or debatable points. It may get a lot of decisions right but to me it is more of a hindrance than a help to the game in its current state.

It ruined the Everton and Norwich games today. Great games with great moments spoiled by stop start deliberations from some guys in an office a hundred mile from the game.

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02 Dec 2019 00:55 #5 by digger
Replied by digger on topic VAR
It’s taking the enjoyment out of football the sooner it’s binned the better the game will be.
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02 Dec 2019 09:57 #6 by thesilentone
Replied by thesilentone on topic VAR
Other sports have a video referee and manage. However when you have a % that are blatant cheating divers, Ali/Young/Sterling etc who also play ball to hand in the area, you need technology to review the incident.

One thing that must be stamped out is the cheating and fake injuries that are now part of the game plan.
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04 Dec 2019 17:40 #7 by Wukkie
Replied by Wukkie on topic VAR
Goal-line technology should stay and that's it, dump the rest.

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04 Dec 2019 17:46 #8 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic VAR

Wukkie wrote: Goal-line technology should stay and that's it, dump the rest.


Get rid of the lot of it and get some refs in who have half a clue about what they're doing

An then let them go on tv and say well if Mr Klopp doesn't like my decision tell him i.m in my room waiting for him.

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04 Dec 2019 17:49 #9 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic VAR

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: An then let them go on tv and say well if Mr Klopp doesn't like my decision tell him i.m in my room waiting for him.


Don't they already have a process where clubs can raise concerns about decisions made by the referee?

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04 Dec 2019 17:57 #10 by Wukkie
Replied by Wukkie on topic VAR
I do agree with you in a way NS but there that much cash on the line these days especially at the top-level.

Anyhow for me the same rules should apply at all levels of football rather than for those who can afford it.
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04 Dec 2019 23:29 #11 by Flatcap
Replied by Flatcap on topic VAR

Wukkie wrote: I do agree with you in a way NS but there that much cash on the line these days especially at the top-level.

Anyhow for me the same rules should apply at all levels of football rather than for those who can afford it.


The same rules have never been applied at all levels of football.
I give you linesmen and fourth officials, as well as retrospective looks at games, and follow on punishments, also the number of substitutes allowed..
What about trials of various amendments of rules at lower levels to see how they go.
The latest one being the use of sin bins.

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04 Dec 2019 23:42 #12 by Dentonholmersimpson
Replied by Dentonholmersimpson on topic VAR
I have always thought technology should be introduced gradually, no problem with goal line technology.

VAR is a step too far when there are other things could be addressed quicker and simpler.

1) Take time keeping away from the referee.

2) Have the same team of officials for all games so they get to know and work with each other.

3) Have a linesman on both sides of the pitch, so if there is a corner on the left the corner taker can't place the ball two feet outside the quadrant.

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01 Mar 2020 17:09 #13 by Urban Designer
Replied by Urban Designer on topic VAR
With Man City scoring a goal from a 'corner' that clearly I think VAR should include checks on goals from set pieces, - free kicks and corners

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01 Mar 2020 17:12 #14 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic VAR
Great, more VAR use then!

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003

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02 Mar 2020 00:38 #15 by topstepwhinger
Replied by topstepwhinger on topic VAR
Have you ever refereed a football match NS - maybe you should give it a go. I stepped in occasionally to referee my son's matches when he was a kid - and it was a nightmare.
Unfortunately in football there is so much cheating that the officials need as much help as possible.
The problem is not VAR, it is the way it is being used. It was brought in to help eradicate clear and obvious mistakes, however it is being overused. The referee should only be notified if there is something glaringly wrong, and it should be the referee who goes over to the monitor and makes the final decision.
The rules also need tweaking in order to prevent goals being disallowed for a toe nail being beyond the last defender or the ball accidentally brushing a strikers arm before scoring a goal. These are not VAR's fault but a rule makers fault, where common sense is being taken out of the equation.
I believe that VAR will stay in the game, it has to, and given time will be improved to a point where we will have forgotten about its current teething problems.

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02 Mar 2020 08:08 #16 by franksidebottom
Replied by franksidebottom on topic VAR

topstepwhinger wrote: Have you ever refereed a football match NS - maybe you should give it a go. I stepped in occasionally to referee my son's matches when he was a kid - and it was a nightmare.
Unfortunately in football there is so much cheating that the officials need as much help as possible.
The problem is not VAR, it is the way it is being used. It was brought in to help eradicate clear and obvious mistakes, however it is being overused. The referee should only be notified if there is something glaringly wrong, and it should be the referee who goes over to the monitor and makes the final decision.
The rules also need tweaking in order to prevent goals being disallowed for a toe nail being beyond the last defender or the ball accidentally brushing a strikers arm before scoring a goal. These are not VAR's fault but a rule makers fault, where common sense is being taken out of the equation.
I believe that VAR will stay in the game, it has to, and given time will be improved to a point where we will have forgotten about its current teething problems.


Agree with most of this, football must be the only sport in the world where constant cheating by the majority of the players is condoned. It hasn’t been stamped out by the authorities when they had the chance so we’re now at the stage where it’s part and parcel of the game unfortunately. It must be an absolute nightmare for referees to officiate.

VAR is overused, I was expecting it to be used once a game if at all but it’s as if someone’s got a new toy for Xmas and is hell bent on getting as much use out of it as possible. For me it should only be used if the ref asks for it to be used, so if he’s not sure about something, similar to how rugby league uses it - if he’s not sure about a try. It was brought in to help reduce controversy in the game but it’s actually increased controversy, surely only football and the powers that be could do this!

For offsides the video ref should get one quick look at the incident, no lines on the screen (if he needs to draw a line it’s blatantly not clear and obvious) and there should be a strict 15 second time limit for him to make a decision.

Although not the fault of VAR, this handball ruling needs to change aswell. How can a defender legally accidentally handball it stopping a goal but an attacker can’t legally accidentally handball it setting up or scoring a goal?

“Yeah, I know of Barry. Bit of a fantasist” - John Courtenay 2003
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02 Mar 2020 09:51 #17 by topstepwhinger
Replied by topstepwhinger on topic VAR
One additional use of VAR I would like to see and forgot to mention above would be to pick up on the most blatant of dives/pretending to have been poleaxed when being been touched on the chest etc - this should result in a one game ban. I would like to think that it would cut this sort of thing out at a stroke.
Do you think they feel embarrassed when they see it back?

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02 Mar 2020 10:23 #18 by Kessler
Replied by Kessler on topic VAR

franksidebottom wrote: Agree with most of this, football must be the only sport in the world where constant cheating by the majority of the players is condoned. It hasn’t been stamped out by the authorities when they had the chance so we’re now at the stage where it’s part and parcel of the game unfortunately. It must be an absolute nightmare for referees to officiate.

VAR is overused, I was expecting it to be used once a game if at all but it’s as if someone’s got a new toy for Xmas and is hell bent on getting as much use out of it as possible. For me it should only be used if the ref asks for it to be used, so if he’s not sure about something, similar to how rugby league uses it - if he’s not sure about a try. It was brought in to help reduce controversy in the game but it’s actually increased controversy, surely only football and the powers that be could do this!

For offsides the video ref should get one quick look at the incident, no lines on the screen (if he needs to draw a line it’s blatantly not clear and obvious) and there should be a strict 15 second time limit for him to make a decision.

Although not the fault of VAR, this handball ruling needs to change aswell. How can a defender legally accidentally handball it stopping a goal but an attacker can’t legally accidentally handball it setting up or scoring a goal?


Sometimes I see fans scream at an opposition player for diving or time wasting, and later on in the match cheering or encouraging our players to do the same. Absolute clowns and very toxic attitude, that cheating is ok when we do it. Instead cheating should be seen as a stigma universally condemned by everyone on all sides.
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02 Mar 2020 10:42 #19 by topstepwhinger
Replied by topstepwhinger on topic VAR
Exactly, and is almost actively encouraged by some of the pundits particularly the ex pros.
The line that really does my nut is 'he was entitled to go down' - when in fact there was little or no contact at all.

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02 Mar 2020 12:43 #20 by sirjimmyglass
Replied by sirjimmyglass on topic VAR
I'm absolutely convinced that if you did a survey of how fans would run VAR if it had to be part of the game, the vast majority would all be asking for the same things. Honestly, it's so simple it's untrue.

Glaring and obvious mistakes should be those that they're looking at, and with the naked eye.Does the referee want to overturn his decision? Definitely? Right, then do it.

Get rid of the bloody lines, get rid of the hundreds of angles that they're looking it from and get rid of the blokes sat in a cabin who are making the decision.

Get Sky Sports and BT Sport to ease off on it as well. If we're all asking for these changes so that they're not looking at such fine lines with offside, these pundits should not be back in their studios at HT/FT looking at it at those levels.

They're in exactly the same boat with us complaining about it as we all are, but they have to shoulder a lot of the blame of this obsession with really tight calls.
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02 Mar 2020 13:26 #21 by NORTHERNSOUL
Replied by NORTHERNSOUL on topic VAR

sirjimmyglass wrote: I'm absolutely convinced that if you did a survey of how fans would run VAR if it had to be part of the game, the vast majority would all be asking for the same things. Honestly, it's so simple it's untrue.

Glaring and obvious mistakes should be those that they're looking at, and with the naked eye.Does the referee want to overturn his decision? Definitely? Right, then do it.

Get rid of the bloody lines, get rid of the hundreds of angles that they're looking it from and get rid of the blokes sat in a cabin who are making the decision.

Get Sky Sports and BT Sport to ease off on it as well. If we're all asking for these changes so that they're not looking at such fine lines with offside, these pundits should not be back in their studios at HT/FT looking at it at those levels.

They're in exactly the same boat with us complaining about it as we all are, but they have to shoulder a lot of the blame of this obsession with really tight calls.


Get rid of all the technology and stick 5 guys at various points around the ground each with three buttons yes no and undecided and give them 15 seconds to make a decision or their button cuts off and the result is then sent to the ref and to the tv van but the ref still has the right to overrule them if he thinks he's right and their collective decision is wrong.

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02 Mar 2020 15:32 #22 by sirjimmyglass
Replied by sirjimmyglass on topic VAR
That's similar to something I'm surprised they didn't do.

Get a small panel of people and if each one of them thinks the referee should be overruled then they do it. Any of them think the referee was right his decision sticks. There's your clear and obvious.

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