If I'm wrong about Beech, over the longer / medium term, I'll happily come on here and admit it. In fact, I hope I'm wrong - I'd love to be.

However, at the minute, after 11 league games and some extremely poor football this season, I'm far from convinced. My judgement is formed on watching the team for thirty whatever games under his management not just on a handful of (very welcome) wins in the recent past.

You can take win %, draw %, points per game or whatever factual statistics you like and dream up some bizarre scenarios which disprove or prove anything. Typically speaking however, win % is the best guide in general. Of course you don't take it in isolation, that goes without saying, but it's a good yardstick.

The real definition of acceptable performance for Beech will be finishing in the top seven at the end of the season. The rest of it, including my own, is meaningless opinion and subjectivity.



"extremely poor football this season"

Kind of proves it really, you've obviously not seen a minute of United playing this season!!


"You can take win %, draw %, points per game or whatever factual statistics you like and dream up some bizarre scenarios which disprove or prove anything"

Isn't this exactly what you've been doing the last few weeks?



A Simpleton is somebody that calls other people 'a Simpleton'.

So what's the defence of Beech after our humiliation this afternoon?

So what's the defence of Beech after our humiliation this afternoon?

You embarrass yourself every week, what’s your excuse for that?

So what's the defence of Beech after our humiliation this afternoon?

You’re obviously buzzing. Enjoy your week of high level excitement. Hopefully you’re brought back down to earth next weekend.

So what's the defence of Beech after our humiliation this afternoon?

We won the game?

Still waiting to hear the defence of Beech for that disgrace this afternoon.

Thoughts and prayers for piglet

I remember when you used to be funny, Santiago.

I remember when you used to be funny, Santiago.

I remember when you said you'd NEVER come on this board.

Piglet will be crapping himself given his nemesis has almost overtaken his love interest McKirdy’s goal tally for last season and we are only in early November.

"I'm not as impressed as some on here and haven't much faith in any appointment by Holdsworth after the last two.

I'll give him till November before being relieved of his duties!."


Despite success to-date lets wait a couple more weeks

I`m sure Holdsworth / Club are wanting to talk about a new contract but i doubt CB will want to commit yet.
He will be asking himself .. How far can i take the club ? and when is the right time to leave from his own career point of view.
He needs to ask the club.....

What is the budget for next season .

If we get promotion this season will they provide the funds to push on not just survive.

What contract are they offering him both salary and length of contract.


The problem is with Covid and the present financial situation with no fans etc the club probably are not in a position to make
many commitments till nearer the end of this season.

He would take their hand off if they offered an extended deal.

He's no Sheridan and I believe that without an actual promotion on his CV he won't get far with team unlikely to take a chance during an unstable financial future.

Jenkins will get rid in March if we look like being promoted.

He's no Sheridan and I believe that without an actual promotion on his CV he won't get far with team unlikely to take a chance during an unstable financial future.

Thank heavens he is no Sheridan

Looks like teams are going to work our one dimensional tactics out and we're in for a struggle over the duration of the season.

When you ask us to play football we (more often than not) fail.

For my money we've only played actual football in one game this season, the rest of it has been anti-football from the John Beck school.

Hill knows Beech, so knew what to expect today. Stick an extra man or two in midfield to stop us winning those second balls from our long punts and we were utterly nullified.

Added to that, Beech has no "plan b" if his "plan a" approach doesn't work. Today's effort was sticking Hayden upfront and doubling down on the long ball. It's tactical ineptitude of the highest degree.

As a Carlisle United supporter I feel insulted by our approach to the game. We're as poor to watch as any Carlisle side I've ever seen (maybe with the exception of the Wilkinson team). Even when we were truly sh1te under Collins and Kavanagh at least we tried to play football. That's football, where you pass the ball to your team mates and work opportunities by moving the ball around your own team with a bit of technique and guile. None of this route one attritional bollocks.

In truth, Beech is making Graham Westley look like Pep Guardiola. We may have points on the board, but is it worth it?

A year in the job now.

I think he’s done a really good job. Hopefully he’ll continue to improve us, will extend his stay and who knows where we could be in another 12 months if we continue this rate of progression on the pitch.

I know where you are coming from P. P.
It's not really my style of football and at times it's a difficult watch.
However, it seems to me that we don't have the resources to put together a side that can both be pleasing on the eye and successful.
The plus side at the moment is that we probably have the most physically strong side I've seen us put out at this level for a long time, I don't think we will be bullied out of many games this season.
Overall I'm happy with where we are as I suspect most of the fans are.
It will be interesting though to see the reaction if results tail off at some point.

"However, it seems to me that we don't have the resources to put together a side that can both be pleasing on the eye and successful."

How do you explain the Crawley performance and Beech's subsequent criticism of it?

Our players proved on Saturday they are capable of passing the ball for the majority of a game and comfortably winning, against a decent side, by doing so.

The reversion to the long ball on Tuesday was a tactical decision and Beech was much more complimentary of the way we played, even in defeat. Even Skelton in his summary of the reserve game complimented the side for "not being passy".

It's a philosophical decision not one arising out of necessity.

By criticism you mean him saying he’s disappointed we didn’t score more than 3?

No, he was critical of Mellish and Riley for being thoughtful and passing rather than hoofing and fighting for second balls.

No, he was critical of Mellish and Riley for being thoughtful and passing rather than hoofing and fighting for second balls.

Yeah I saw the bit about them not winning second balls, just can’t recall him criticising them for passing and not hoofing.

I don’t want to accuse you of making it up, because I may well have simply missed it, but, have you?

It’s rare to see a team in this division play ‘good’ football.Occasionally one comes along but they swiftly move up a division.More relevant is seeing a young player who clearly has it and will be a star, even more rare nowadays as they are hoovered up by the bigger clubs at an earlier age.

If we want to watch Total Football, you are looking in the wrong place.

You're misusing the term "Total Football" which only serves to show your lack of knowledge here.

Is "swiftly moving up a division" not the idea? How precisely is this "irrelevant"?

Ultimately where we finish in the league will end up being the ultimate judgement on the current manager.
That's something that never changes.

The majority of our goals so far have come from wide areas, check the videos if you don't believe me, the majority from decent passing moves.

One man's hoof ball is another mans quality long pass.

Look at Tranmere's goal, long ball from their right back area leaving their winger one on one against Tanner.

Or was that just a hoof.

Don't really want to get into an argument about what is or isn't a hopeful punt up field or a classy long range pass.
I think it's fairly obvious though that we are much more direct than we have been for quite a long time, or perhaps ever?

Not ever.

We were shamelessly long ball under Ian Atkins, although back then there were clearly mitigating circumstances.

I don't have a problem with more direct football.

Like a few others on here I was brought up with Dick Young, ''push and run''.

I am not a football snob who will only support their team if they play ''proper football'', whatever that is.

I just want to see us play winning football.

Get the ball forward and create chances, worked well enough for Jackie Charlton and ROI.

If we can emulate teams like Burnley, bring it on.

Yea exactly, we also have to work with the players we have, and if that means a longer ball and less fannying about at the back then so be it, if it gets results then, job done!
And if anybody says they would prefer tippy-tappy football and not be bothered if we win, then they are simply talking out of their anus.

In modern times teams who deploy the long ball and have sustained success are the exception rather than the rule.

In the top two divisions especially (in fact in all four divisions) very few teams play like this and the approach is out of fashion for a reason. Burnley are truly the exception.

I totally understand for some of our fans, short term results are all that matters. Some don't even care if we lose, the match is just a social occasion to get out of the house and have a lager-top or whatever and a crack.

For me, it's deeper than that and you have to look longer term. It's a myth football is just a results business (although results are undeniably important) at its core it's an entertainment industry.

If you want to bring new supporters in to Brunton Park and keep them coming back, core product is all important. Just winning alone will not be good enough. If you're converted, you're already converted but you are not the customer group who has to be convinced.

Anyway, all that works off the assumption Beech can be as tactically astute and effective as a Sean Dyche, and at the minute I see no evidence of this. I'll be surprised if our ugly route one philosophy is successful enough to get us out of this division (in an upward direction).

99% of fans don't care how their teams play if they are winning.

I remember 10 years ago and teams like Arsenal were being used as an example as the way forward, remember the Jack wilshire goal,whatever happened to him.

I took as much,if not more pleasure in waching unfashionable Stoke City get to the cup final playing with 2 wingers,Pennant and Etherington,loading the box.

As Lummy pointed out in the Newport game, who got where they are playing fairly direct, they believed they were better than they were and tried playing out from the back

and it cost them and when these teams are losing going into the final ten minutes, they revert to type and start humping long ball into the box.

Football snobbery by all the amatuer Peps.

Winning breeds confidence, brings success and with that bums on seats. You can play the sexy football and dominate possesion in every match,but if you don't win the fans

will stay away. Stay away fans look out for the results first and foremost on deciding whether to come back, not interseted in possesion stats or how nice the strip is.

My definition of "football snobbery" is some joker who purports to speak for 99% of the fanbase.

You may very well get supporters turning up if we're winning regularly (although with our current tactics we won't be), but once they see the garbage being served up they will not be back regularly. We proved this under Curle, when despite reaching the playoffs our attendances were poor. Contrast this to Wadsworth's side or Simpson's team in tier four, when the quality of football was higher the crowds were higher.

History shows that winning alone is not sufficient and that aesthetically pleasing (but still effective) football is required to bring real success.

It's also wrong to imply we can't be successful playing football, the performance at Crawley proves the point. Long ball tactics are unnecessary there are many ways to win football matches and if you take our last two matches, passing the ball against Crawley brought us three points, hoofing the ball against Tranmere brought us no points.

My opinion of a joker is someone who says, and I quote '' My judgement on football is rarely wrong''.

Perhaps because you swing like the wind and manipulate your opinion to suit the latest performance and result.

For example, being more conciliatory about Mellish's performances, where earlier you described him as, and I quote again '' barely a footballer''.

You are a WUM of the highest order, always fishing for a bite, but fairs fair, the fact I am writing this is testament to how good you are at it.

That's no joke, it's a fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying I "manipulate my opinion"? That's definitely a new one. I can't refute something so randomly meaningless, so fair play to you.

I stand by my description of Mellish's performance in our defeat at Scunthorpe. In that game he did indeed barely look like a footballer his performance was so abject. I thought the point of player ratings was to describe the performance of the players in any particular game? No?

It's not "swinging" to give players a bit of credit when they play well and a bit of criticism when they play poorly on player ratings threads for different games. There would be little point posting on (or reading) player ratings threads if all the marks and comments were the same every week.