Profile

  1. thesilentone
  2. Main Forum
  3. 06-04-2021 14:01
Years ago, a train guard sat in a little carriage on the end of the train. The only real important job was to ensure he had enough coal to keep his little stove hot, and enough Playboy's to keep him entertained.

When he remembered, he had to wave a green flag, or a red one (for what he was not quite sure) and at night a light (if he'd remembered to bring the paraffin)

One day, his little carriage never left the sidings, he had been replaced by the Train Conductor / Guard. he was now Safety Critical :-)

So, let's check out his/her required skills:

1) Must be able to communicate with people nicely
2) Must be able to speak so people understand (Oosta garn on Marra) will not do.
3) Must be able to deal with upset passengers without nutting them.
4) Must be able to count.

For this, he/her can expect to paid the sum of just under £15.00 hour.

Today his/her Union has called a strike so everyone can be disrupted in some way, as they have nothing better to do, and it's at least a fortnight since the last one.

With so many other worthy cases of worker exploitation going on, what the hell has happened to the Unions !!
ccu
Site Admin
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You forgot the Safety Critical training in case of emergency.

The removal of Guards with the new Customer Service role would see this competency lost.

Think how many stations are just a platform, especially around these parts.

I know which I'd prefer...
  1. 13-03-2017 10:12
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The excuse is always customer safety or patient care (like the junior doctors) which, as we know is nonsense....
  1. 13-03-2017 10:37
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I am backing the train guards all the way... i have been unable to use the train today but thats unfortunate they have to strike to stand up for what they believe in..

lets see without a guard a person who cannot climb over 2 feet to get on a train from a platform.. how is a person in a wheelchair going to board...
  1. 13-03-2017 10:41
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was with a group of wheelchair users recently in London using the tube system.

Bloody nightmare!

We were going from a wheelchair friendly station to another one. To find anyone was impossible but we got help at the alighting station. When we had to get off the train they was no one to help with ramps etc, so i pressed the emergency button and the driver had to get off - find someone with a ramp to get them off. delays etc that shouldn't of happened.

What will happen with all the stations in Cumbria that don't have anybody, who will help.

100% behind this strike.
  1. 13-03-2017 10:56
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In the event of a major accident the driver is quite often incapacitated (or worse) therefore the Conductor has then sole responsibility for the train and passengers, can you imagine the carnage if they weren't onboard in such occasions!

Totally required for public safety, someone close to me has recently completed the training, unbelievable what they need to know and what they are responsible and accountable for!!
  1. 13-03-2017 11:15
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
These strikes are nothing to do with the London Tube.

Our Victorian transport system is not 100% wheelchair friendly, and makes no claims to be so with only 1/4 of having step free access. You should have know the risks before you went down there !!

All London bus routes are wheelchair friendly.
  1. 13-03-2017 11:20
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes i know the strikes aren't the London tube but i was given an example of what happens when there's no guards.

Our route was advertised as wheelchair friendly but without help it wasn't.

Bus was 3 changes and 2 hours, taxi quoted at £44 pounds and 44 minutes on one tube. So Tube was the best choice for us
  1. 13-03-2017 11:29
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  1. 13-03-2017 11:51
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wonders never cease when i'm agreeing with you Mouldy!

So Silentone, you'd rather have no guards on say a train from Carlisle to Newcastle? it just beggars belief.

That train is notorious for bad behaviour, what happens if a sexual assault occurs (it happens), fayre dodgers, drunks and people needing assistance. I'm just curious what would happen in those circumstances?
  1. 13-03-2017 11:57
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wonders never cease when i'm agreeing with you Mouldy!

So Silentone, you'd rather have no guards on say a train from Carlisle to Newcastle? it just beggars belief.

That train is notorious for bad behaviour, what happens if a sexual assault occurs (it happens), fayre dodgers, drunks and people needing assistance. I'm just curious what would happen in those circumstances?


This is a job for the Police, not guards. As it is the guards have had little to no impact on the behaviour.

http://www.cumbriacrack.com/2013/03/08/transport-police-increase-patrols-on-newcastle-to-carlisle-service/
  1. 13-03-2017 11:59
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think the slogan should be:

" Come and av a go if you think yer ard enough"


[img size=80 ]http://i3.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article12732074.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Northern-Rail-strikes.jpg[/img]
  1. 13-03-2017 12:11
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thesilentone is a classic example of what is becoming the endemic attitude of society of "we don't need the experts" and "it'll never happen to me".

Aye, just let everyone fend for themselves in an emergency on the train. Someone will figure out what to do. If someone has a medical emergency on board then hopefully there'll be someone around with first aid training, don't need someone around who is guaranteed to be trained.

If these changes do go through then hopefully thesilentone is put in a situation where he needs the services of a conductor and suffers as a result.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
  1. 13-03-2017 13:02
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wonders never cease when i'm agreeing with you Mouldy!

So Silentone, you'd rather have no guards on say a train from Carlisle to Newcastle? it just beggars belief.

That train is notorious for bad behaviour, what happens if a sexual assault occurs (it happens), fayre dodgers, drunks and people needing assistance. I'm just curious what would happen in those circumstances?


We agree on a lot more than you think, Mullen.

I personally don't like travelling on trains, would much rather drive, so as such, I'm not the most experienced. Having someone there regardless of the h&s front is, in my opinion, handy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  1. 13-03-2017 13:07
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I can vouch for that-it's like the Wild West on the last coach out of dodge.

It's not a guard you need however-more likely a rozzer with a cattle prod.

Reminds me of the firemen's union when the old steam trains were changed for diesel-the unions still wanted the responsibility of putting out the fire despite there being no fire.
  1. 13-03-2017 13:08
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
While I think there's some justification for the RMT's argument recommendation guards on Northern, I disagree re Merseyrail* - which is more like a metro network than national rail.

* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!
  1. 13-03-2017 13:27
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 15
ccu
Site Admin
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/1378fc6272320e8beb7073373c00c8a9.jpg
  1. 13-03-2017 17:01
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The issue of guards has [censored] all to do with safety. 12 coach driver only trains have been running down south for years. Even on routes where the RMT are now on strike on Southern. Its more to do with politics. The RMT would love to have the railway renationalised and hope by calling these strikes will strengthen their case. If that happened then they would be able to bring the whole country to a grinding halt ( as they used to do) as they wouldn't have multiple train companies to deal with.
The title guard is rubbish anyway. They are no more than ticket checkers who occasionally open train doors.
Try to find one on a train. Usually they are tucked away in the non driving cab at the far end of the train.
  1. 13-03-2017 18:07
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In ten years time I doubt they will have drivers on trains, let alone conductors.

Don't see many bus conductors nowadays, do you?

Progress, like it or not.
  1. 13-03-2017 18:14
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Speaking as somebody hasn't been on the underground years, how is it they can pack people in like it's the Bangalore Express.

Surely there is as big a safety issue.
  1. 13-03-2017 20:01
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So for the smartarse(yes you know who i mean)...how is a wheelchair user going to get on a train with 2 feet of platform to get up onto in the back of beyond with no assistance???.

Virgin trains have a senior conductor on every train...and each station is manned with platform assistants
Seems to work fine here...so the theory of driver only trains is the future..i think not.

Safety and assisting passengers is 1st priority..end of.
Driver duties to concentrate on the train driving part and whats infront of them .
  1. 13-03-2017 22:22
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 20
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If they can design ship and planes to carry cars and lorries, surely it can't be beyond a decent engineer designing wheelchair access built into trains.
  1. 13-03-2017 22:38
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 21
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In the event of a major accident the driver is quite often incapacitated (or worse) therefore the Conductor has then sole responsibility for the train and passengers, can you imagine the carnage if they weren't onboard in such occasions!

Totally required for public safety, someone close to me has recently completed the training, unbelievable what they need to know and what they are responsible and accountable for!!


When a Northern train came within 150 yds of 200 tones of masonry blocking the line just outside Lime Street two weeks ago it was the guard who stopped the train by activating the emergency braking system as he had nothing else to focus on The driver has i would imagine many things going thru his mind when he sees the obstruction on the line in front of him and i wouldnt mind betting a lot of them simply freeze whereas if a guard who doesnt get to see whats coming gets an alert that says press the emergency stop he.ll do it in the quickest time possible.

Guards are given 2 weeks safety training with regular statutory updates. The role the government is pressing the train companies to introduce requires just half a day if you cant see that thats a reduction in the safety of a train in an incident your thicker than you purport to be bit i dont think you are for a minute and this is just another of your regular anti union rants.

It may of passed your attention this morning but very interesting development is the recording one of the union negotiators made in a meeting with the head of HR at Northern in which he made no secret of the fact that this isnt a fight that Northern want at all but one that they are being made to fight as the repayment for their bid winning the last franchise auction.

If they got themselves sorted out all train drivers should just refuse to move any train on which there isnt a fully trained guard and the whole thing would be put to bed once and for all and big up the scouser drivers who today scuttled Merseyrails plan to run a scab service by refusing to cross a the guards picket lines.


All trains were stopped in the Lime Street incident by the overhead lines tripping out. At no point did any guard stop the train.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/partial-collapse-of-a-wall-onto-open-railway-lines-liverpool
  1. 13-03-2017 22:45
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 22
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The whole issues of the trains and platforms are totally outdated up this way.. here we have been filled with false promises and shitty services for years on end yet they want to take the guard away who provides the only assistance during travel.. they should be concentrating on getting all basics sorted instead of pissing folk off for the sake of a few quid.. tight arsed [censored]. Nice to see where their stupid priorities lie eh.

Why dont they ask customers opinions up here?? Surely the customers come 1st and foremost.
  1. 13-03-2017 22:46
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 23
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Up here,Mark, trains can't be driver only, as the lines are absolute block worked, which requires a guard for many rule book procedures.
I'm no union man at all,but 100% right on this, particularly now CPS seem to like prosecuting rail staff for passengers' own stupidity.
  1. 13-03-2017 22:55
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 24
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
While I think there's some justification for the RMT's argument recommendation guards on Northern, I disagree re Merseyrail* - which is more like a metro network than national rail.

* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!


So on the unmanned stations at the extremes of the Merseyrail network youre happy that the whole arrival loading and dispatching is carried out solely by the train driver in addition to his actual train driving duties then are you ?


Every station on the Merseyrail network is staffed, first train to last.

It's done on the Underground and Newcastle Metro, which are comparable networks. Like I've said above (and linked in with High Street's point re: secitons of it's network), I agree on Northern trains that DOO maybe isn't the best option.
  1. 13-03-2017 23:34
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 25
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If they can design ship and planes to carry cars and lorries, surely it can't be beyond a decent engineer designing wheelchair access built into trains.


The new Merseyrail trains will be - sliding step technology, lowering the floor level and infrastructure changes (i.e. changing track level so the trains match the platform) mean wheelchair users wouldn't need assistance. Because the Merseyrail network is self-contained and, with a few exceptions, separate from the rest of the national rail network, it's a lot easier to implement the infrastructure changes. In comparison, Northern covers a much wider area and number of stations so it would be hugely expensive to do it and potentially disruptive to other trains using those stations.
  1. 13-03-2017 23:42
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 26
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In the event of a major accident the driver is quite often incapacitated (or worse) therefore the Conductor has then sole responsibility for the train and passengers, can you imagine the carnage if they weren't onboard in such occasions!

Totally required for public safety, someone close to me has recently completed the training, unbelievable what they need to know and what they are responsible and accountable for!!


When a Northern train came within 150 yds of 200 tones of masonry blocking the line just outside Lime Street two weeks ago it was the guard who stopped the train by activating the emergency braking system as he had nothing else to focus on The driver has i would imagine many things going thru his mind when he sees the obstruction on the line in front of him and i wouldnt mind betting a lot of them simply freeze whereas if a guard who doesnt get to see whats coming gets an alert that says press the emergency stop he.ll do it in the quickest time possible.

Guards are given 2 weeks safety training with regular statutory updates. The role the government is pressing the train companies to introduce requires just half a day if you cant see that thats a reduction in the safety of a train in an incident your thicker than you purport to be bit i dont think you are for a minute and this is just another of your regular anti union rants.

It may of passed your attention this morning but very interesting development is the recording one of the union negotiators made in a meeting with the head of HR at Northern in which he made no secret of the fact that this isnt a fight that Northern want at all but one that they are being made to fight as the repayment for their bid winning the last franchise auction.

If they got themselves sorted out all train drivers should just refuse to move any train on which there isnt a fully trained guard and the whole thing would be put to bed once and for all and big up the scouser drivers who today scuttled Merseyrails plan to run a scab service by refusing to cross a the guards picket lines.


All trains were stopped in the Lime Street incident by the overhead lines tripping out. At no point did any guard stop the train.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/partial-collapse-of-a-wall-onto-open-railway-lines-liverpool


Pretty sure all signals were put to red as well when it was spotted.
  1. 13-03-2017 23:45
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 27
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Using a the metro system as a comparison to a rail network to argue that we don't need train conductors is a futile argument , a system such as the metro has a stop every few minutes so if an emergency does occur the issue can be quickly dealt with. Whereas an a rail network , it can be 30+ minutes between stations. It would be a major safety concern to remove such a key job. The automation of social facilties will create greater unemployment leading to great long term costs to the government.
  1. 14-03-2017 14:46
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 28
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just out of interest.

if you travel on any train in the South there is usually a trolly dolly selling drinks, sarnies etc.

How come we don't get this service on the West Coast Main Line ?
  1. 14-03-2017 15:25
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 29
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
While I think there's some justification for the RMT's argument recommendation guards on Northern, I disagree re Merseyrail* - which is more like a metro network than national rail.

* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!


So on the unmanned stations at the extremes of the Merseyrail network youre happy that the whole arrival loading and dispatching is carried out solely by the train driver in addition to his actual train driving duties then are you ?


Every station on the Merseyrail network is staffed, first train to last.

It's done on the Underground and Newcastle Metro, which are comparable networks. Like I've said above (and linked in with High Street's point re: secitons of it's network), I agree on Northern trains that DOO maybe isn't the best option.


Incorrect there are a number of unstaffed stations on the Merseyrail network Cappenhurst, Bache, Little Sutton and Overpool are examples


Exactly what I was thinking.
  1. 14-03-2017 21:05
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 30
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
While I think there's some justification for the RMT's argument recommendation guards on Northern, I disagree re Merseyrail* - which is more like a metro network than national rail.

* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!


So on the unmanned stations at the extremes of the Merseyrail network youre happy that the whole arrival loading and dispatching is carried out solely by the train driver in addition to his actual train driving duties then are you ?


Every station on the Merseyrail network is staffed, first train to last.

It's done on the Underground and Newcastle Metro, which are comparable networks. Like I've said above (and linked in with High Street's point re: secitons of it's network), I agree on Northern trains that DOO maybe isn't the best option.


Incorrect there are a number of unstaffed stations on the Merseyrail network Cappenhurst, Bache, Little Sutton and Overpool are examples


Exactly what I was thinking.


I did actually remember after I'd posted that there was a few exceptions - basically, they are the stations that sit outside the Merseytravel area in Cheshire. About 90% plus of stations are staffed from first train to last - every single one that sits within the Merseytravel council areas.

I still stand by what I've said - Merseyrail is a metro network and DCO is far more suited to it than say on Northern.
  1. 14-03-2017 22:16
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 31
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
But far from 90% of those on the Wirral line. I'm certain they need guards/conductors on this line, with the current set up. Mrs CvB does Chester to Liverpool four times a week.
  1. 14-03-2017 23:59
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 32
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just out of interest.

if you travel on any train in the South there is usually a trolly dolly selling drinks, sarnies etc.

How come we don't get this service on the West Coast Main Line ?


Absolute horseshit.
  1. 15-03-2017 00:20
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 33
ccu
Site Admin
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Speaking of MerseyRail, good to hear Guard Martin Zee found Not Guilty today. Case should never have been brought...

https://twitter.com/livechonews/status/842342665974894593
  1. 16-03-2017 11:56
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 34
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Speaking of MerseyRail, good to hear Guard Martin Zee found Not Guilty today. Case should never have been brought...

https://twitter.com/livechonews/status/842342665974894593


Simple solution to that Dan, get rid of the guards then they can no doubt take the driver to court instead.
  1. 16-03-2017 12:11
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 35
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just out of interest.

if you travel on any train in the South there is usually a trolly dolly selling drinks, sarnies etc.

How come we don't get this service on the West Coast Main Line ?


Absolute horseshit.


What, the sarnies, trolly dolly or the drinks ?
  1. 16-03-2017 14:25
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 36
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just out of interest.

if you travel on any train in the South there is usually a trolly dolly selling drinks, sarnies etc.

How come we don't get this service on the West Coast Main Line ?


Absolute horseshit.


What, the sarnies, trolly dolly or the drinks ?


If I remember rightly, just about all Virgin trains have a food trolly that comes down, or a food bar carriage or both.
  1. 16-03-2017 15:19
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 37
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
never on the 6.49 Carlisle - London or the 3.30pm London - Carlisle
  1. 16-03-2017 15:55
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 38
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Maybe they know where your sitting and avoid you.
  1. 16-03-2017 16:10
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 39
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Now I'm feeling really offended, and I thought you liked me..................
  1. 16-03-2017 17:05
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 40
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
never on the 6.49 Carlisle - London or the 3.30pm London - Carlisle


Coach C on pretty much every Pendelino service has a shop selling scran etc.
  1. 16-03-2017 18:15
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 41
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Because these muppets are at it again, looking for a few more holidays....................

The RMT union has announced another 24-hour strike on Southern rail for Tuesday 4 April, in a row over the role of conductors.

RMT union post strike dates for night tube drivers

Are there any reasonable human beings left that support these bruisers ?

If you can afford to strike as often as these idiots, you get paid far to much, no wonder our tickets are so expensive.
  1. 17-03-2017 11:27
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 42
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Because these muppets are at it again, looking for a few more holidays....................

The RMT union has announced another 24-hour strike on Southern rail for Tuesday 4 April, in a row over the role of conductors.

RMT union post strike dates for night tube drivers

Are there any reasonable human beings left that support these bruisers ?

If you can afford to strike as often as these idiots, you get paid far to much, no wonder our tickets are so expensive.


You know they don't get paid when they're on strike? Hardly a holiday you clown.
  1. 17-03-2017 11:37
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 43
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
How can they afford to go on strike so often ?
  1. 17-03-2017 11:46
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 44
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn. So very boring now, do you have anything about Carlisle United to talk about?
  1. 17-03-2017 11:55
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 45
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Do you not have any sympathy for Carlisle United supporters who travel more than most others, subsidising the bruisers ?
  1. 17-03-2017 12:08
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 46
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Rail union chiefs get a £6k bonus... to make sure they get to work! RMT gives secret travel perks to fat cats including a car and a train season ticket
Union barons give themselves a secret £6,000 bonus to get to work by car
Bonuses of the RMT union were left blank in the organisation's annual accounts
The head of rail union Aslef was photographed being driven to work amid strikes
Union chiefs get an extra £3,000 so they can escape the delays and travel by their staff car
  1. 17-03-2017 13:51
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 47
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Because these muppets are at it again, looking for a few more holidays....................

The RMT union has announced another 24-hour strike on Southern rail for Tuesday 4 April, in a row over the role of conductors.

RMT union post strike dates for night tube drivers

Are there any reasonable human beings left that support these bruisers ?

If you can afford to strike as often as these idiots, you get paid far to much, no wonder our tickets are so expensive.


You know they don't get paid when they're on strike? Hardly a holiday you clown.





The militant union behind the strikes that have crippled Southern Rail is using its £46 million war-chest to pay conductors £300 a week to stay off work, it has emerged.
  1. 17-03-2017 13:58
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 48
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Now this will be a laugh, every bruiser in the UK will be here, hopefully many planned to travel by train.......

"RMT announces strike action on day of Grand National"
  1. 21-03-2017 17:14
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 49
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
They will put a bus service on no doubt but us northerners didnt go in a hissy fit about a strike last week. we just got on with it..


You still didnt answer my question...who is gonna get the person in a wheelchair on the train with a 2 ft drop......
  1. 21-03-2017 17:29
  2. Main Forum
  3. # 50


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!