Years ago, a train guard sat in a little carriage on the end of the train. The only real important job was to ensure he had enough coal to keep his little stove hot, and enough Playboy's to keep him entertained.
When he remembered, he had to wave a green flag, or a red one (for what he was not quite sure) and at night a light (if he'd remembered to bring the paraffin)
One day, his little carriage never left the sidings, he had been replaced by the Train Conductor / Guard. he was now Safety Critical :-)
So, let's check out his/her required skills:
1) Must be able to communicate with people nicely
2) Must be able to speak so people understand (Oosta garn on Marra) will not do.
3) Must be able to deal with upset passengers without nutting them.
4) Must be able to count.
For this, he/her can expect to paid the sum of just under £15.00 hour.
Today his/her Union has called a strike so everyone can be disrupted in some way, as they have nothing better to do, and it's at least a fortnight since the last one.
With so many other worthy cases of worker exploitation going on, what the hell has happened to the Unions !!
When he remembered, he had to wave a green flag, or a red one (for what he was not quite sure) and at night a light (if he'd remembered to bring the paraffin)
One day, his little carriage never left the sidings, he had been replaced by the Train Conductor / Guard. he was now Safety Critical :-)
So, let's check out his/her required skills:
1) Must be able to communicate with people nicely
2) Must be able to speak so people understand (Oosta garn on Marra) will not do.
3) Must be able to deal with upset passengers without nutting them.
4) Must be able to count.
For this, he/her can expect to paid the sum of just under £15.00 hour.
Today his/her Union has called a strike so everyone can be disrupted in some way, as they have nothing better to do, and it's at least a fortnight since the last one.
With so many other worthy cases of worker exploitation going on, what the hell has happened to the Unions !!
You forgot the Safety Critical training in case of emergency.
The removal of Guards with the new Customer Service role would see this competency lost.
Think how many stations are just a platform, especially around these parts.
I know which I'd prefer...
The removal of Guards with the new Customer Service role would see this competency lost.
Think how many stations are just a platform, especially around these parts.
I know which I'd prefer...
The excuse is always customer safety or patient care (like the junior doctors) which, as we know is nonsense....
I am backing the train guards all the way... i have been unable to use the train today but thats unfortunate they have to strike to stand up for what they believe in..
lets see without a guard a person who cannot climb over 2 feet to get on a train from a platform.. how is a person in a wheelchair going to board...
lets see without a guard a person who cannot climb over 2 feet to get on a train from a platform.. how is a person in a wheelchair going to board...
I was with a group of wheelchair users recently in London using the tube system.
Bloody nightmare!
We were going from a wheelchair friendly station to another one. To find anyone was impossible but we got help at the alighting station. When we had to get off the train they was no one to help with ramps etc, so i pressed the emergency button and the driver had to get off - find someone with a ramp to get them off. delays etc that shouldn't of happened.
What will happen with all the stations in Cumbria that don't have anybody, who will help.
100% behind this strike.
Bloody nightmare!
We were going from a wheelchair friendly station to another one. To find anyone was impossible but we got help at the alighting station. When we had to get off the train they was no one to help with ramps etc, so i pressed the emergency button and the driver had to get off - find someone with a ramp to get them off. delays etc that shouldn't of happened.
What will happen with all the stations in Cumbria that don't have anybody, who will help.
100% behind this strike.
In the event of a major accident the driver is quite often incapacitated (or worse) therefore the Conductor has then sole responsibility for the train and passengers, can you imagine the carnage if they weren't onboard in such occasions!
Totally required for public safety, someone close to me has recently completed the training, unbelievable what they need to know and what they are responsible and accountable for!!
Totally required for public safety, someone close to me has recently completed the training, unbelievable what they need to know and what they are responsible and accountable for!!
These strikes are nothing to do with the London Tube.
Our Victorian transport system is not 100% wheelchair friendly, and makes no claims to be so with only 1/4 of having step free access. You should have know the risks before you went down there !!
All London bus routes are wheelchair friendly.
Our Victorian transport system is not 100% wheelchair friendly, and makes no claims to be so with only 1/4 of having step free access. You should have know the risks before you went down there !!
All London bus routes are wheelchair friendly.
Yes i know the strikes aren't the London tube but i was given an example of what happens when there's no guards.
Our route was advertised as wheelchair friendly but without help it wasn't.
Bus was 3 changes and 2 hours, taxi quoted at £44 pounds and 44 minutes on one tube. So Tube was the best choice for us
Our route was advertised as wheelchair friendly but without help it wasn't.
Bus was 3 changes and 2 hours, taxi quoted at £44 pounds and 44 minutes on one tube. So Tube was the best choice for us
Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.
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Wonders never cease when i'm agreeing with you Mouldy!
So Silentone, you'd rather have no guards on say a train from Carlisle to Newcastle? it just beggars belief.
That train is notorious for bad behaviour, what happens if a sexual assault occurs (it happens), fayre dodgers, drunks and people needing assistance. I'm just curious what would happen in those circumstances?
Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.
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Wonders never cease when i'm agreeing with you Mouldy!
So Silentone, you'd rather have no guards on say a train from Carlisle to Newcastle? it just beggars belief.
That train is notorious for bad behaviour, what happens if a sexual assault occurs (it happens), fayre dodgers, drunks and people needing assistance. I'm just curious what would happen in those circumstances?
This is a job for the Police, not guards. As it is the guards have had little to no impact on the behaviour.
http://www.cumbriacrack.com/2013/03/08/transport-police-increase-patrols-on-newcastle-to-carlisle-service/
I think the slogan should be:
" Come and av a go if you think yer ard enough"
[img size=80 ]http://i3.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article12732074.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Northern-Rail-strikes.jpg[/img]
" Come and av a go if you think yer ard enough"
[img size=80 ]http://i3.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article12732074.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Northern-Rail-strikes.jpg[/img]
Thesilentone is a classic example of what is becoming the endemic attitude of society of "we don't need the experts" and "it'll never happen to me".
Aye, just let everyone fend for themselves in an emergency on the train. Someone will figure out what to do. If someone has a medical emergency on board then hopefully there'll be someone around with first aid training, don't need someone around who is guaranteed to be trained.
If these changes do go through then hopefully thesilentone is put in a situation where he needs the services of a conductor and suffers as a result.
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Aye, just let everyone fend for themselves in an emergency on the train. Someone will figure out what to do. If someone has a medical emergency on board then hopefully there'll be someone around with first aid training, don't need someone around who is guaranteed to be trained.
If these changes do go through then hopefully thesilentone is put in a situation where he needs the services of a conductor and suffers as a result.
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Long live the conductors! I'm on your side CCU.
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Wonders never cease when i'm agreeing with you Mouldy!
So Silentone, you'd rather have no guards on say a train from Carlisle to Newcastle? it just beggars belief.
That train is notorious for bad behaviour, what happens if a sexual assault occurs (it happens), fayre dodgers, drunks and people needing assistance. I'm just curious what would happen in those circumstances?
We agree on a lot more than you think, Mullen.
I personally don't like travelling on trains, would much rather drive, so as such, I'm not the most experienced. Having someone there regardless of the h&s front is, in my opinion, handy.
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I can vouch for that-it's like the Wild West on the last coach out of dodge.
It's not a guard you need however-more likely a rozzer with a cattle prod.
Reminds me of the firemen's union when the old steam trains were changed for diesel-the unions still wanted the responsibility of putting out the fire despite there being no fire.
It's not a guard you need however-more likely a rozzer with a cattle prod.
Reminds me of the firemen's union when the old steam trains were changed for diesel-the unions still wanted the responsibility of putting out the fire despite there being no fire.
While I think there's some justification for the RMT's argument recommendation guards on Northern, I disagree re Merseyrail* - which is more like a metro network than national rail.
* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!
* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!
The issue of guards has [censored] all to do with safety. 12 coach driver only trains have been running down south for years. Even on routes where the RMT are now on strike on Southern. Its more to do with politics. The RMT would love to have the railway renationalised and hope by calling these strikes will strengthen their case. If that happened then they would be able to bring the whole country to a grinding halt ( as they used to do) as they wouldn't have multiple train companies to deal with.
The title guard is rubbish anyway. They are no more than ticket checkers who occasionally open train doors.
Try to find one on a train. Usually they are tucked away in the non driving cab at the far end of the train.
The title guard is rubbish anyway. They are no more than ticket checkers who occasionally open train doors.
Try to find one on a train. Usually they are tucked away in the non driving cab at the far end of the train.
In ten years time I doubt they will have drivers on trains, let alone conductors.
Don't see many bus conductors nowadays, do you?
Progress, like it or not.
Don't see many bus conductors nowadays, do you?
Progress, like it or not.
Speaking as somebody hasn't been on the underground years, how is it they can pack people in like it's the Bangalore Express.
Surely there is as big a safety issue.
Surely there is as big a safety issue.
So for the smartarse(yes you know who i mean)...how is a wheelchair user going to get on a train with 2 feet of platform to get up onto in the back of beyond with no assistance???.
Virgin trains have a senior conductor on every train...and each station is manned with platform assistants
Seems to work fine here...so the theory of driver only trains is the future..i think not.
Safety and assisting passengers is 1st priority..end of.
Driver duties to concentrate on the train driving part and whats infront of them .
Virgin trains have a senior conductor on every train...and each station is manned with platform assistants
Seems to work fine here...so the theory of driver only trains is the future..i think not.
Safety and assisting passengers is 1st priority..end of.
Driver duties to concentrate on the train driving part and whats infront of them .
If they can design ship and planes to carry cars and lorries, surely it can't be beyond a decent engineer designing wheelchair access built into trains.
In the event of a major accident the driver is quite often incapacitated (or worse) therefore the Conductor has then sole responsibility for the train and passengers, can you imagine the carnage if they weren't onboard in such occasions!
Totally required for public safety, someone close to me has recently completed the training, unbelievable what they need to know and what they are responsible and accountable for!!
When a Northern train came within 150 yds of 200 tones of masonry blocking the line just outside Lime Street two weeks ago it was the guard who stopped the train by activating the emergency braking system as he had nothing else to focus on The driver has i would imagine many things going thru his mind when he sees the obstruction on the line in front of him and i wouldnt mind betting a lot of them simply freeze whereas if a guard who doesnt get to see whats coming gets an alert that says press the emergency stop he.ll do it in the quickest time possible.
Guards are given 2 weeks safety training with regular statutory updates. The role the government is pressing the train companies to introduce requires just half a day if you cant see that thats a reduction in the safety of a train in an incident your thicker than you purport to be bit i dont think you are for a minute and this is just another of your regular anti union rants.
It may of passed your attention this morning but very interesting development is the recording one of the union negotiators made in a meeting with the head of HR at Northern in which he made no secret of the fact that this isnt a fight that Northern want at all but one that they are being made to fight as the repayment for their bid winning the last franchise auction.
If they got themselves sorted out all train drivers should just refuse to move any train on which there isnt a fully trained guard and the whole thing would be put to bed once and for all and big up the scouser drivers who today scuttled Merseyrails plan to run a scab service by refusing to cross a the guards picket lines.
All trains were stopped in the Lime Street incident by the overhead lines tripping out. At no point did any guard stop the train.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/partial-collapse-of-a-wall-onto-open-railway-lines-liverpool
The whole issues of the trains and platforms are totally outdated up this way.. here we have been filled with false promises and shitty services for years on end yet they want to take the guard away who provides the only assistance during travel.. they should be concentrating on getting all basics sorted instead of pissing folk off for the sake of a few quid.. tight arsed [censored]. Nice to see where their stupid priorities lie eh.
Why dont they ask customers opinions up here?? Surely the customers come 1st and foremost.
Why dont they ask customers opinions up here?? Surely the customers come 1st and foremost.
Up here,Mark, trains can't be driver only, as the lines are absolute block worked, which requires a guard for many rule book procedures.
I'm no union man at all,but 100% right on this, particularly now CPS seem to like prosecuting rail staff for passengers' own stupidity.
I'm no union man at all,but 100% right on this, particularly now CPS seem to like prosecuting rail staff for passengers' own stupidity.
While I think there's some justification for the RMT's argument recommendation guards on Northern, I disagree re Merseyrail* - which is more like a metro network than national rail.
* I admittedly have a slight vested interest on this!
So on the unmanned stations at the extremes of the Merseyrail network youre happy that the whole arrival loading and dispatching is carried out solely by the train driver in addition to his actual train driving duties then are you ?
Every station on the Merseyrail network is staffed, first train to last.
It's done on the Underground and Newcastle Metro, which are comparable networks. Like I've said above (and linked in with High Street's point re: secitons of it's network), I agree on Northern trains that DOO maybe isn't the best option.
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