TOPIC: Northern clubs

Good article about the demise of northern clubs, premier league focus but same message applies with us

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/compe...ay-be-permanent.html

I thought that last month and wrote this elsewhere:

If you take out those from Manchester and Liverpool the only really "northern" Club going places is Stoke City now. Neither from Liverpool are really doing well, if Newcastle and Sunderland drop, Stoke be only 1 from 5 not from Manc/Liv in "North" in PL.

Also plenty dropping further down as well.

Thought this for a few years now, but more at our level, tin pot clubs like Crawley, Dand R,Stevenage, Barnet replacing the likes of Stockport, Tranmere, Wrexham and Darlo.

It is simple economics/demographics. The South East of England continues to get wealthier relative to the North of England. That means clubs can charge higher ticket prices. Advertising rates within the grounds are better and it is easier to find local business sponsors. More money coming in means being able to afford better players and better stadium facilities. Being close to London means they can get youngsters in on loan from the big London clubs.

Working class families have also moved out of London to towns like Braintree, Stevenage and Crawley which are easily commutable to London for work but they also want to support their local team. If you look at the 4 teams currently in the relegation places in the National League you will see 2 teams based in decaying industrial towns, Kidderminster and Halifax and 2 teams based in seaside towns with rapidly ageing populations, Torquay and Southport. The clubs that get relegated are going to replaced by teams based in towns with stronger local economies and richer owners. Looking at the National League South you can see teams like Ebbsfleet, Hemel Hempstead and Chelmsford City who have the right geographical location and local populations to support League 2 football within 10 years.

So while the trend in favour of Southern clubs will continue there is no reason why with Carlisle's additional southern fan base it can't buck the trend.

Is there any statistical evidence that it is true that the south is rising? Orient went down last year, Aldershot are out the league, Rushden have gone as have Maidstone. At the 'knocking on the Premier' level Middlesborough, Hull and Burnley are there after Brighton and no one predicted they would be challenging. Two Manchester clubs are top of the Premiership, only Gillingham are a south east team in the top 10 in League 1. Not sure I see it to be honest. The only strong trend I see is that spectators become less important and TV becomes more important.

Quite amazing to think a Yorkshire Club ain't been in top flight since 2007 like.

Agree about the tv money, happening everywhere slowly - Premier League is the envy of the world in terms of what they can sell it's tv rights for.

Gary Neville is quite clearly unaware of our billionaire and the maelstrom this northern powerhouse will cause......be afraid............be very afraid

Wazza wrote:
Sorry Wazza but having lived in Hull for three years i am conditioned into pointing out that Hull is well and truley a Yorkshire City.

Back in 1996 a friend of mine spoke of Wimbledon's suviaval as a Premier league outfit being down to their location. Even back then he was convinced that PL money would bring in good players from abroad. The point being is that London is seen as being attractive and the place to be.

I think clubs need a connection with their community especially clubs such as NUFC or Sunderland. Youngers need to be joining the first team ranks but for whatever reason this is not happening. An observation i would make is how few people just play football for fun. Kids now 'do' football as an activity; they may go to cubs on a wednesday, Tai kon do on a thursday and then do football on a friday. The lack of time to play for fun has gone. No wonder the front three of Barca are all south americans.

I've never seen it as being in Yorkshire to be honest but can understand your point, only ever been there once for about 5 hours as well and never been around many folk from Hull either so you are in a better position to call it.

Markovitch wrote:
One indicator is the dividing line between North and South in the National League. Bishops Stortford (next to London Stansted airport) having to play in the Northern section until recently shows how the South-eastern clubs have improved. Orient will probably be promoted this year and Aldershot (army town) and Rushden (tiny footwear town in Northants) weren't really representative of the South East.

Apart from clubs like Gateshead and Tranmere looking to regain League status are there any Northern clubs likely to break through from Non-League to League 2? I doubt Guiseley will do it. I think Fleetwood and Morecambe were exceptional in what they achieved.

Look at teams based west of the M6/M5 since 1970

Workington went non-league
Barrow went non-league
Southport went non-league
Tranmere went non-league
Chester went non-league
Wrexham went non-league
Torquay went non-league

On top of that us, shrewsbury and newport have all dipped into non-league.
Hereford and Kidderminster came up but eventually went down.


Balanced against that you have Morecambe and Fleetwood gaining league status

The rise of the Southern based teams has been going on for years but is, in my opinion, accelerating.

As well as the Northern teams mentioned by orfc Lincoln City, Grimsby Town, Bradford Park Ave. and Darlington have been relegated out of the Football League. And the teams fighting against relegation from our division last year were nearly all Northern teams. Some may say this year is different, but we are in a Southern League.

I always go to the First Round of the FA Cup and before the draw is made I look to see which of the Non- League teams have made it through. I often think these teams are getting further away. Carwash is right it’s in the National Leagues that you can see this trend. Eleven teams from the Midlands and South play in the National North. (eg Lowestoft Town, Worcester City, Boston United). Whilst in the National South nearly all the teams are from below the M25. (the most Northerly team I would say is Oxford City geographically just North of the M25).

At least it makes travel easier for our London Branch supporters.

Dentonholmersimpson wrote:
Would you not say the likes of Morecambe, Fleetwood and Accrington have replaced Stockport, Tranmere and Wrexham?

And perhaps Crawley, Dag & Red, Stevenage and Barnet have replaced your Torquays and Aldershots.

I think it's a lot more noticeable at the top level myself. Yorkshire has virtually disappeared Premiership-wise, as has Lancashire with the North East threatening to. I just think folk perceive the lower leagues to be southern based these days because League 2 is, but the fact is quite a few northern teams have bypassed Carlisle, leaving League 1 quite Northern dominated