TOPIC: Cameron to visit

Hope he gets egged.

Fantastic opportunity this


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I've not been affected by this at all, our house is on the top of a hill and we tend not to get anywhere near flooded. It has been great to see gestures of help for some of the people who are in genuine need, our players for example, and the fans of Welling. Wonderful gestures those. I also saw Tim Farron genuinely helping people out yesterday on Facebook, so congratulations to him for rolling his sleeves up and getting on with it.

But the last thing this county needs is this shiny faced posh twat turning up and pretending to sympathise just to get his face in the paper and on the news. We all know he'll do nowt, we're too far north for him to worry about. It isn't just him that's a shameless photo opportunist, of course, most politicians are exactly the same. The county can well do without him and his upper class mates. I'm not a liberal supporter in any way, but send us more politicians like their leader, somebody prepared to get his hands dirty, instead of a load of posh boys looking for an excuse to wear a hi viz jacket and a hard hat.

Maybe this is the wake up call he needs to see that no emergency services should be cut... plus i think the mountain rescue teams all should get more important status financially from.the government as they do an amazing job on a voluntary basis.

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Aye, closing the emergency care in West Cumbria has now been shown up for what it actually is mate, an absolute disgrace, and a real danger to people's lives. How were ambulances supposed to transport people from Whitehaven to Carlisle yesterday and the day before? Another of his fabulous ideas is closing fire stations, I wonder how much that would have helped over the weekend.

The minister Mr Blair sent spent a few years at Her Majesties Pleasure .

Most of them should Macduff.

Of all the people for anger to be aimed at, Cameron (and Brown) is not one. Plenty of money spent on the issue.
£20M in flood defences and the floods are worse than then. Reason I say this is we got very little in 2005 but it went about 100 yards further up this time.
Idiots at Environment Agency should be held fully accountable.

CarlisleWhite wrote:
I don't think Moorlad is aiming anger or any blame at Cameron here, he'll correct me if I'm wrong though. It's more a case of needing people that will actually do something practical, not someone coming and having his face seen with the poor Cumbrians etc to show that he 'cares'.

Ease off him lads. We are a marginal seat he needs to keep up appearances.

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Whoopee everything is going to be alright.
His Govts cut backs have to a certain extent prevented councils from carrying out the maintenance of the drainage system.

I think it is absolutely pathetic that while people are homeless, and likely to be for Christmas, there are some trying to make political points (most of which make no sense).
Grow up for chuffs sake.

chesterviabothel wrote:
CvB's right about my way of thinking. Cameron would be much better employed back in London coordinating what needs done to rescue the situation. It certainly is not a situation of his making, but he's responsible for sorting it out. Turning up and wandering round in his wellies will be of absolutely no help to anybody, least of all himself. His MP for Penrith and the Borders is the floods minister, he's close enough to what's going on to be able to give reports to his boss, so there's no need for photo opportunities. What is needed is practical stuff, which is what the leader of the Lib Dems was doing yesterday and Saturday.

Actually in parts of the county the Environment Agency are doing very well. We had a client flooded (in Maryport) on Thursday, their place was cleaned up by the agency on Friday morning. I've heard from other clients that they've been doing great work in and around Cockermouth today, and the main street is open again already, and a lot of shop owners are already back in, having been able to save a lot of stock etc because of the warnings, and because the defences held water back for a decent amount of time. Parts of Keswick have left them stumped though, after last time, I'm pretty stunned that the water got above the new defences there, but a client tells me that there was some storm damage the previous week. This had meant there were trees in the river which hadn't been cleared causing water to back up anyway.

Our office staff in Kendal have had a real struggle getting to work, but all the bridges over the river are open again now I've heard, but it is still a bit of a mess. I have a job at Grasmere later in the week, that client managed to save his place, he was sandbagging at 5 in the morning to make sure his place stayed safe. I'll have to go there via Penrith and Kendal because Dunmail Raise has been washed away. This has been a horrible few weeks really, and the weekend's events have followed on top of a couple of weeks of terrible weather.

I don't think this is a time for blaming anybody really, I think it should be about making sure everyone pulls in the right direction to get everybody sorted as quickly as possible, think about responsibility and what needs doing to stop it happening again after everybody's looked after properly.

I do hate Cameron though, he has a face I would never tire of punching.

Are you for real pirv the drainage systems work perfectly well ,you could say flood banks aren't high enough but historically Carlisle has flooded to this degree three times in last 80 odd years,thirties ,sixties and 2005,interestingly the last two occasions we also suffered foot and mouth disease around same time

No win really Moorlad - turn up what it is (pointless), don't turn up and ne branded heartless.
Don't mind Cameron - he is a posh [censored] but does not try to hide it so he comes across as genuine (whatever his faults), unlike all of the other politicians, who were also posh [censored] pretending not to be.

I met David once and he's a bloomin' nice chap actually.

Nobby, I met Thatcher once, and she seemed nice.

loser wrote:
This ^^^

If Carlisle was a labour or tory lock like Workington or Penrith I doubt he'd show face


As for the EA, here's a link to a paper after the 2009 floods that estimated the chances of getting 300m rainfall at Honister to be a 1-in-396 year event as opposed to a 1-in-1200 year event as they thought previously -- nora.nerc.ac.uk/12487/1/BHS_3rd_Int_Symp_Stewart_et_al.pdf

Even with those revised figures the supposed odds on that level of rainfall happening again six years later is 1- (0.9975^6) = 1.5%

I don't blame them though, in effect they're guessing, the error bars on events like this are so wide as to make single numbers pointless. This could be a pattern, or the bad luck equivalent of getting struck by lightning three times in a row. The people I don't trust and the ones who say they know for sure. Like Rory 'Safe Seat' Stewart who said it was unparalleled rainfall and there was nowt to be done. It was unparalleled last time too Rory and the time before that you pob-faced buffoon.

..

Yeah orfc, and the Environment Agency are given finite resources for flood defences as well. Cumbria isn't the only priority place in the UK for flood defences (in fact we probably aren't any sort of priority at all - sparsely populated and well away from London etc), and they have to try to defend the whole country. It was a matter, for them, of spending the money in the best way possible to minimise the risk as much as possible. They couldn't then come out and say "well we've done our best, but if we get another 2005, or 2009 the job's buggered". They had to say they were confident in what they'd done, just like now they've got to keep harping on about this being unprecedented (which clearly it isn't).

Stewart does appear to be out of his depth (so to speak) and a bit of a cock.

Orfc,
Could not disagree more. Design is not an exact science as you say, but for £20M cost, it should be an educated estimate based on all available guidance, with various factors of safety.
As I say, the current floods are far worse, so the flood defence schem has done diddly.
Won't stop them gathering their tens of thousands a year salary though.

thesilentone wrote:
Explain why Rory Stewart is better placed (other than by proximity) than almost anybody else in the world. He made himself look a complete tit yesterday, even Moorlass was swearing at the telly.

Leaving other issues aside for the present, what really annoys me is that in the 21st century why can we not get better protection for the substation at Willowholme which affects 60,000 homes. if ever there was a priority it is this. Of course it is not in a good place but unless it is moved to a safer site - at enormous cost i would think - the next best thing is to use every means possible to make it secure. The same applies to the substation serving Lancaster and 50,000 homes. The utility companies and Government should be financing this properly.

And by the way silentone, in 2011 the government cut flood defence spending by 8%. That actually meant a bit less was spent on Keswick than should have been (it was mentioned in the statement at the time), surprise, surprise, look what happened.

CarlisleWhite wrote: So it makes no sense that cuts to West Cumberland Hospital have endangered people's lives and this situation demonstrates it frighteningly well.

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Statement from Liz Truss:

www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-flo...nday-7-december-2015

It appears from that as if very little actually happened, and what did happen was mitigated by the defences ensuring people could rescue their gear and get out safely. Well done Liz, all the pictures on the telly are wrong then.

loser wrote:
Even worse Loser, if the hospital at Carlisle loses power, somebody with an emergency medical need in Whitehaven, say, might have to be moved to Hexham from Carlisle. They've obviously thought all this through, and just don't give a shit.

Loser,
Not aware of what is happening at West Cumberland Hospital, but I thought they had just built a new one?
I know the guy who was the Trust's project manager on it.
I was also not aware anyone has not been looked after (far from it), apologies of so - the response outside Warwick Road was exemplary, Army, coast guard, and all services wh.

Moorlad,
Fairly sure Carlisle has back up power.

CarlisleWhite wrote:
The Emergency centre has been closed, there is no longer any Emergency medical treatment available in the west of the county, after Cameron praising everything and promising no cuts about 3 years ago. People have already died on the way through to Carlisle (I have no idea why this doesn't make even the local news, but it is so). There was absolutely no way emergency vehicles could get through to Carlisle at certain points during the weekend either.

Yes a new part of west Cumberland has been built (part of it burned down earlier in the year though, because it was unsafe), but don't think everything is fine, it is not, and more people will die because of this.

CarlisleWhite wrote:
So am I, but do they use that when operating? I don't know.

It would be nice to read one thread when a bit of casual Tory bashing wasn't shoehorned in for very little reason, just because you are still upset that they won a fair election.... at least the bloke is making an effort to visit... you'd be slaughtering him if he didn't. I don't like the bloke but this goes a bit too far... not the moment to be trying to score political points. Maybe his visit will do some good and maybe it will open his eyes to some regional issues... it can only be a good thing for the flood victims and may end up in some kind of relief for them. (it might not as well... but there is a chance)

I'd much rather he didn't Northumbrian, and I certainly wouldn't be having a go if he didn't. Liz Truss, fair enough, it is her job, she should be here, along with Rory Stewart (who obviously already is). But that is enough. It won't be good for victims, it isn't as if he'll be giving them a hand getting their soaked carpets out or anything, he's actually daft enough to stand in Carlisle and talk about the number of houses they've prevented from flooding, rather than saying he'll do everything he can to ease the situation.

Moorlad wrote: You don't know that... even if there is a 5% chance of it actually helping those flooded then it is worth it. I understand where you are coming from with the cuts etc. but at least he is bothering his arse to see it with his own eyes...many previous PM's wouldn't have turned up. When you see that kind of thing with your own eyes it can change opinions... there is certainly more chance of it being positive than negative in impact. Just this once give him the benefit of the doubt... at least until he proves you right and nothing changes

Northumbrian wrote:
Yes it was good of Cameron to visit Carlisle Fire station in 2010 and promise there would be no cuts to front line services.

walwynlegend wrote: Not really the same issue is it?

Northumbrian wrote:
Benefit of the doubt, implies doubt.

Moorlad wrote:
I'm pretty sure they use it if the operation is important enough but anything minor/routine then it's more likely to get sacked off.

They can't use things like MRIs which use a [censored] load of power because they just draw way to much electricity.

Moorlad wrote: fair enough.

Northumbrian wrote:
I thought the issue was Cameron making the effort to visit Carlisle(again) and your hope that he is genuine and not turning up for a photo opportunity and political gain(again)?

So Camerons coming to make a token jesture, Then he'll blame Labour and the Tories partners in crime the Lib Dems, Then Prince Chazz a regular lakes visitor will probably swan in blaming badger culling fox hunting and trees that talk and sweet feck all will get done, And the poor people who have been flooded will have to soldier on and try to get there lives back in order. Lets hope theres a nice 5 star plus hotel open to accomadate in case of a stopover.....

walwynlegend wrote: If you want to make that link you can... I think they are very different situations. One is politics and you can argue the rights and wrongs of fire cuts... the other is the response to a weather disaster for the region. To me that is different. I appreciate why others are cynical about his motives though.

CarlisleWhite wrote:
You do realise this is exactly what Cameron is doing?

Where's Carlisle's local MP? I see someone mentioned Tim Farron rolling his sleeves up, fairplay. I think he's a bit of a berk, but he's the local MP for my grandparents and they can't fault him as a local MP.

Carlisle recently gained Enterprise Zone status. However, who the hell is going to invest in Carlisle with events like this happening? I bet Sainsbury's are well and truly pixxed off, building with a Low Risk of flooding due to new flood defences.

Cameron will bring the Press with him, anything that highlights the plight of those who have once again been washed out can only be positive. I just hope he does not mention anything positive about the flood defences which failed.

Northumbrian wrote:
Difficult to separate fire service cuts from the events of the weekend, don't you think? Frizington is one of the fire stations due to be closed, they were deployed at the weekend, and at about 12 miles they're fairly close to Cockermouth.

Not at all sure silentone, but I believe the press might already be hanging around. You should have read my link earlier Liz Truss is already saying positive things about the defences, Cameron is almost bound to follow that lead. There is no way they can say they haven't done enough.

Moorlad wrote:
No point in going to Hexham assuming you could get through they have shut the emergency facility there you now have to go to Cramlington if you can find it as there were no sign posts last I heard. Even paramedics were getting lost.

What a shambles all that foreign aid should be being pumped into this country to ensure disasters like this never happen again

And yet we found 25m to send troops to Latvia in case Russia invaded, 80m to bomb Syrian deserts and 1.9bn to boost cyber security which we wouldn't have needed if we hadn't bombed Syria. Still I'm sure David has his priorities right, is he flying up in his new plane?

It's supposed to be 100% standby power, but not sure of duration. Think it is just of a length so they can complete/make safe the procedure.
I only know about the generator because it failed not long b

To be pedantic Mike, he is making a gesture, not a point.
As I say, criticised if he comes and criticised if he does not.
Sure I heard Stevenson on the radio today?