TOPIC: New Stadium

So after last weeks flooding it must be time for the club to come out with some specifics on Blue Yonder, is it worth putting Brunton Park back together fully if they have plans to relocate in the future?
Has the land of BP any value as once again it's proved to be a flood risk so who would want to build or buy housing on here?
The viaduct can no longer be a viable site having suffered from flooding as well. Pioneer already has plans in to extend on land at Rosehill which some have said could of been used. It would seem the club are running out of viable sites around the City without moving out of town a move which would anger supporters.

Can we not just write brunton park off like you do with a car and claim for a new ground or claim the stands are knackered and build some new ones.

It makes me wonder if we had gone ahead with the new ground up at kingmoor park would we be having these problems the answer is NO but since the city council and most of the fans were against it it looks like were gonna be stuck with a ground that floods for the future that includes if we dont stay at BP unless there gonna move to the west of the city

Are we the only league club who's ground floods?
Moving from BP is a no brainer where the grind ends up being situated is irrelevant add long as it is within the City boundaries and on ground not in danger of flooding.

I wish the council would just grasp the nettle and build the city a community stadium complex that can be used for all sorts. It could include a 15k stadium, new sports centre and theatre complex to replace the sands centre which is dated and wrecked with the floods. Big long term investment and private companies can pay the rent including a nominal rent for cufc on a hundred year lease. Great facility for the city and county and something useful rather than the countless white elephants and crap they have spent the tax payers money on over the last few decades.
All we need now are visionary council leaders and and club owners.

Councils have access to cheap loans and numerous other ways to fund stadiums through sport england and government grants etc. Every other town in the UK have a new or updated stadium - its been nearly 20 years since phase 1 East Stand was built!

zoney wrote:
How do we know most of the fans were against it? Was there a vote at the time - I genuinely cannot remember.

bruntonpete wrote:
Well said bruntonpete.

cufcdeano wrote:
Not that I know of.......but think there should be before they push on with Stadium White Eliphant. I obviously will vote against it

cufcdeano wrote:
No just the vast amount of posts of people saying they wouldnt go etc etc etc

Don't know how folk expect the Club to be in a position, only a week after a flood, to give cast iron news on the future of Brunton Park and/or Blue Yonder?!

They've only just got most of the damaged goods out, let alone conduct a full review and feasibility study!

bruntonpete wrote:
Totally agree Pete. Was in Inverness this summer and used the leisure centre a couple of times, it was a quality facility all on one site. A big sports centre, conference rooms, swimming pools (including a center parks type fun pool) and a decent cafe/restaurant with a balcony overlooking an athletics stadium. Not sure how old it was but it was fresh and in great condition compared to our old dilapidated amenities. Swap the athletics stadium for a football stadium and this would be exactly the type of facility that Carlisle is crying out for. Knock the Sands and the Pools down and relocate the lot.

Getting the council to build a stadium sounds good, but
a) the amount of twining you'd get from non-cufc bothered people because the council were building this at the same time orphans from the nhs were having to use food banks etc etc - it'd be something that would cost councillors their seats so not happening
b) absolutely no stadium income,the club'd be paying to use it rather than others paying the club to host events
c) the pitch would be shit, something the club prides itself on - more use and wouldn't be cufcs to maintain, get a council guy mowing it once a month if lucky
see www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/calderdale...t-the-shay-1-7110470 *fixed*

An alternative of the council lending the club money won't happen, especially after the northampton farrago

In the end they're going to have to whack another 3 foot on the flood defences around brunton park. Even if CUFC can move, 3000 householders wont be able to so they have to do it to protect them, so i reckon the club will stay.

All valid points orfc but surely there is a starting point and these things can be discussed and agreed upon.

It is in everyone's interest to have a vibrant and successful league club in the city. The club is the focal point of the city and county in many ways but it is not given the status it should be by our local council.
A new stadium/leisure complex/offices and community used facilities would be a major step forward for the future wellbeing of the city and will bring people together.
The cost of this could be 50m which, considering what you get for your money, would be so worth it and it would pay for itself in 10 years of managed correctly.
Location is always going to be an issue but just imagine how good it could be. The problems and issues mentioned could all be overcome .

Did it flood down by Rome street by the way?.all that land on there was a potential site once over???

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I'd rather stay at BP than move into some community stadium. Carlisle City Council couldna run a bath let alone a £50m leisure complex.

bruntonpete wrote:
I can assure you that Carlisle United isn't a focal point for the County. It may be in the city of Carlisle but apart from the fans in west Cumbria it'd be safe to say no one else gives a shit. I know the two are totally unrelated but at a time when critical services are being moved from west Cumberland to Carlisle due to cost your highly unlikely to get councillors to agree to spending money on a new football stadium. Having said that Workingtons new sport centre looked good under three feet of water the other day.

Who were the braindead idiots who voted for building sports centre on a flood plain with no further defences after 2009...what shan that is...the beck is yards away..Even tescos had the sense to pull out of that area after 2009 floods



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Dancingbear wrote: Not sure where anybody gets the idea its a focal point for the City of Carlisle either. About 3% of the population attends games and the rest probably didn't realise we had a team until the floods.

My plan to redevelop Brunton Park would be, demolish Neil Sports Centre, move East Stand and keep it the same capacity 6000, Waterworks 2000 capacity all seated for away fans, 600 seated corner between Waterworks and Main Stand for home or away fans if required, 6000 seated Main Stand, 800 seated corner, 4000 all seated Warwick Road End, video boards situated and both goal ends and rugby ground made into new facilities along with new Neil Sports Centre

I canna see the insurance covering all that.

Nobby, it is a focal point for the city. Having a league team is quite often what puts the city on the map.
There are massively populated towns much bigger than Carlisle who get no coverage at all. We are known because of our league status. Croydon for example is unknown and has a population 3 times that of Carlisle.

People would come in their droves if we had a team higher up the league. It is nonsense to suggest the city folk don't follow the club. That argument tends to come from people who support the club from outside.
A successful club galvanised the city and the area.

I never said city folk didn't follow the club just that there's not many of them.

Then that is what should be addressed. I have been going for 35 years and the club had never really reached out proactively like others do.
That's why we don't have a new stadium or a club punching for the championship. There is obviously a strong community spirit. A good board and a forward thinking council would embrace that.

New stadiums with their fancy dan surroundings are overrated anyway. I like standing in the paddock in the p!ssing rain with a load of moaning old b@stards, having a pint of flat lager in the George Mcvitie suite and then urinating in a shed.

Anybody who goes just because the facilities are 'lovely' is not really worth knowing.

Carlisle United Yorkshire Branch wrote:
Move the East Stand? What, just jack it up onto wheels and push it along a few yards?!

The answer to the Brunton Park question is simple, a successful CUFC.

A good team is where any good club statrs, look at Fleetwood, that was nothing but once a successful team got involved things build off it.
(Yes i know Fleetwood had money to get to where it is but we are already there!)

If Curle and the boys keep up the way we are going, get a good run and a bit of luck, this situation will become a necessity rather than a pipe dream, until then Brunton Park is what we've got so for gods sake lets not over expand our means!

The council wont do anything for the club,whilst Nixon has anything to do with it.

bruntonpete wrote:
How do you know Croydon is three times bigger than Carlisle if no one knows about it because it doesn't have a football team? Oh apart from top flight Crystal Palace being right on its doorstep.

Like I've said for a very long time, then been shot down by people who know nothing, Brunton park is not worth redeveloping these floods will go from once every 10 years to once every 5 years etc the climate is getting more extreme and we need to move to higher ground, but the problem is to build a new stadium we need a forward thinking population and council but we don't have that.

Happyblue wrote:

This is spot on, we have to accept the climate is changing and the future is not about building banks to keep the water out.

We have to go above the risk line, but for now it is not worth discussing has we have a Council that see's the need to put up parking costs as a means of revenue (real British Rail business plan ) Erm, we've got less customers ? O, well put the prices up. Erm we've got less customers ? O, well put the price up . Erm, we've go no customers ? O, you should have said, put the price down.......

The only good alternative is Kingstown / Kingmoor park.

Croydon F.C (Southern Counties East) might have issues with people saying Croydon don't have a team.

A multi purpose facility would be a good way to go, could even include a sports academy.

I put a thread up months back, a poll on what opinions people had on using an artificial pitch at our next ground. Fair to say the result was a big no, majority percentage by a distance at the end. But my point was that the pitch/facilities could then be used as a training complex, reducing the need for a seperate venue to train. We could also rent it out to other teams in the city during the week and it could become a money maker.
I think everyone would rather their team played on proper turf, but it may be time to look at other options that can be of benefit financially.

Football should always be on natural grass

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Bruntonpete is bang on the money.This is the way things work in France. The council build and maintain the facility and lease it to the club.There is an opportunity here for a Sports complex and this opportunity should be grasped now by the council

Im guessing playing in a council owned stadium would affect how much we can pay in wages are they would control a lot of things that currently the club can add to the playing budget.

Carlisle United Yorkshire Branch wrote:
No need to totally demolish the E Stand, just the Neil, then just curve the cormer round and build Boxes or Offices or both on the Ist floor and a safe standing area below, which would then be under cover............then join that end up to Foxeys, make a coridoor on the 1st floor (obviously ) through to the Boxes and Offices. The entrance could be at the end of Foxeys for the standing area. Then as and when able, start to refurb the Old Stand.

shaldon1 wrote:
Where would the Council get the money tho, unless they have access to grants they are heavily cutting resourses under the Governments instructions to save money

Equally as important, sports centres, swimming pools etc all lose money.
Not exactly a money spinner, more a cash cow.

Happyblue wrote:
You say Brunton Park is not worth redeveloping? What is Brunton park worth now? And who would want to buy it? What could be built on it? Housing? Who would seriously consider building houses on there now? Who would want to buy a house on that site? Would any insurance company offer cover there now?

I actually think this latest episode of flooding could have ended any idea of moving ground for the reasons above and the fact that there is unlikely to be any developer interested in BP and offering an enabling development around carlisle, club has no money and there's no Billionnaire! Redevelopment of BP is as good as we can ever hope for, the development would need to factor in the likelihood of future flooding events, ability to pump out ground, offices on first floor level, facilities on ground floor easily re instateable, etc.

Not likely to happen though 'cos we've dinosaurs in charge who are waiting for a non existant billionnaire.

shaldon1 wrote:
That happened at Leigh when they moved into the council owned Leigh Sports Village. The council insisted on running the venue (providing stewards, having the catering outlets etc.) They insisted on a minimum of over 50 stewards per game and charging the club for them even though the crowds were less than that. Needless to say the club soon ran out of money and the club had to fold.

What about the unused bits of the east stand? The bits that are too expensive to fit out? Are they still too expensive compared to getting the offices flooded once a decade?

Bruntonpasty wrote:
Are you disagreeing with me as non of your point actually contradicts what I said, at no point did I say sell brunton park my previous posts in the past have said that brunton park land should be used for flood alleviation ,

Happyblue wrote:
Well, ultimately this"new stadium"will have to be paid for, I'm sure you are in agreement with this. If BP as no or little value for redevelopment by house builders or owt else for that matter, where is the money going to come from? As we pretty much know for certain, the owners have no money for such a project and there is no Billionaire, Are you suggesting that by using what is a relatively small patch of land as flood alleviation, the govt would pay us enough for it to build a new ground?

Bruntonpasty wrote:
I think hes suggesting we need an enabling developer to pay for us a new ground somewhere.

Bruntonpasty wrote: once again i have not stated where we will source the finance, as I do not deal with large projects, but what i do know is we will have to build new stands at brunton park or move to a new stadium soon as to put it simply, if i had to pick an option it would be a enabling development, any person worth his salt will realise that the main stand at Brunton park is finished, another key fact which you may not realise . now onto the facts Brunton park is one of the lowest point in the city, if you moved the flood defence to where the Warwick road end the area in which the water can flow to increase dramatically, although it may not completely prevent the flood it will be a factor in decreasing the flood effects, lets say the the area. lets say the flood covered about a 1.5 km2 of area in carlisle at around 0.75 meters, thats about 1.125 m3 of water, thats 1125000 litres btw. Now if the flood defences were around 3 meters surround brunton park and i would probably include the rugby club in this so about 0.2km2 of land, the volume of the water stored by these defences would be 0.6km3 of water which would not completely eradicate flooding would cut the flood effects in half,.

It covered a lot more than 1.5m2 that's for sure!

Happyblue wrote:
Which is the stumbling block isn't it, without financing we can't even build a copy of gillford park

Don't think extending the flood defences to the limits of brunton park would help that much to be honest. Water pushing up the petteril did for kingfisher park etc before it reached brunton park, and the area covered by the flood was square miles and on average more than 2-3 foot deep. We all saw the pictures in brunton where it came to the goalpost - 8 feet. The defences need to be higher and there's evidence upland farming practices have meant the water runs off straightaway - no trees, ditches cut in moorland to let it run off etc so it all comes down to carlisle in a flash so that needs to be addressed. The amount of water coming down river wouldn't change, it would just be spread out over time, but Rory would need to upset the tory-voting farmers in his parish for some of this though

nobbyblue wrote:
learn to read its says km2