TOPIC: Tories in meltdown

The board's resident Tory pretenders have been very quiet the last few days. Always keen to comment on the gaffes of other political parties but the biggest political farce of the year so far has been unfurling the last few days without a peep from them!

I hear Ian Duncan Smith is a secret UNITE donor and loves the RMT.

don't knock them I'm getting a 1% non consolidated one off pay rise this year off them woop woop

Don't go thinking this has anything to do with disabled folks' benefits. It's all to do with Europe. They don't care about the disadvantaged so long as them and their mates are getting richer.

Nicked from Facebook:

Anyone: What do you call a man with no legs?
Tories: Thirty quid a week worse off.

IDS was on caught on camera applauding when Osborne announced the PIP cuts on budget day. THe woman all over the Telegraph supporting him is Priti Patel who designed the bloody cuts!!
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tory...#GE640hK9AGkK4EkP.97

griff wrote: Exactly. IDS just doesn't want to be on the wrong side of the referendum result. If he totally cuts himself off from Camoron and Gideot now then he'll be guaranteed a top job when we vote to leave Europe and Camoron has to be replaced.

Self-serving pr*ck in other words!

Let's just quickly remind ourselves of the lefties last school report....

......................................................................................

Spending on public services has increased by an average of 4.4% a year in real terms under
Labour, significantly faster than the 0.7% a year average seen under the Conservatives from
1979 to 1997. This is largely due to increases in spending on the NHS, education and
transport. Since 2000–01 public investment spending has increased particularly sharply and is
now at levels not seen since the mid to late 1970s. Despite large increases in the generosity of
benefits for lower income families with children and lower income pensioners social security
spending has grown less quickly than it did under the Conservatives.

Markovitch wrote:
Pretty tricky when he didn't attend and was actually at a funeral............

They used a stock photo/video from one of the previous budgets

You are absolutely correct about his absence, picture was from 2015 when he cheered welfare cuts. Still the Telegraph is now trumpeting Labour calls for Osborne's resignation so I refuse to be down hearted
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conser...ty-benefit-live.html

A Conservative Party led by Boris Johnson, brilliant

As a rampant Tory, the whole attack on the disabled left me somewhat dismayed. In the scheme of things, the suggested saving was derisory compared to the waste in other areas but more to the point, why pick on those less fortunate? Common sense has prevailed but as always with Osborne, you are left thinking there is a disconnect with the real world. He also looks like he is enjoying inflicting pain- he would enjoy removing finger nails if given the chance.

The coalition between 2010 and 2015 worked because it was policed by the Liberals-far from liberalising, they acted as a brake on excessive Tory exuberance and was largely successful.

Problem here is the opposition is so weak as to be irrelevant-Corbyn is a joke in most quarters, making it a free for all in policy making by the Tories. Lets hope they learn from this sad episode

So how will you feel, Laffy, if Boris does become leader of the Conservatives? Will that be TWO parties with joke leaders? I met Corbyn in Cockermouth recently where he was talking to flood victims and enjoying a photo-call, as they all did. He also went into Tony Harrison's butchers (despite being vegetarian) for a chat and bought a few things for him and his team. He's a LOT more down to earth and realistic than Cameron or Osborne in my view. Far more in touch with the common man.

But Corbyn isn't a joke in most quarters, only those you move in. He is actually proving to be very effective with his constant questioning in the House and never getting a straight answer. He has succeeded in undermining the Tories big time. I don't expect him to be Prime Minister but he is laying the groundwork for a better form of government.

I think Corbyn is an oaf-we want a leader who is a winner and who preaches the positive. This guy has made a living out of negativity, evidenced by how many times he voted against his own whip. I didn't know Tony Harrison sold Quorn or fava beans.

I rather like Boris-with a decent lieutenant like Gove to keep him straight.

Corbyn is ahead in the polls so not such a joke
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/n...leader-a6937926.html


The budget was a typical Tory budget, if you earned £45000 pa or more you were a winner, if you earn less you are worse off, How many people on here will use the full capital gains tax exemption? Increased insurance premium tax so insuring your home against floods is more expensive?


Median household income in Cumbria in 2015 was £25332 so for 90% of Cumbrians the budget had no positive effect. That people who can afford to buy football clubs support the Tories is perfectly logical, that people who earn less than £45k pa do so is baffling

Laffy wrote:
I'd prefer a leader who has principles and isn't afraid to voice them, rather than somebody that needs 'kept straight' by someone as detestable as Gove.

Its all a big con

this c*** IDS speaks out against the cuts and thick f**kers think

" ooh look, the tories aren't all nasty, some of them do care"

balls

this is a carefully orchestrated campaign to do with europe and the tory leadership battle these cuts to disability benefits will still go through

Never mind though it's the queens 90th birthday next month let's forget these problems and celebrate

Markovitch wrote:
So the last hike in personal tax allowance didn't affect Cumbrian's, why is that ?

We are all entitled to an opinion-I just happen to have been on both sides of the fence.Modest beginnings and done ok by education and being prepared to take risks.

I think the reason for the capital gains tax cut was to generate liquidity in the market-the government makes money from transactions and thus encouraging the of taking a profit creates more tax.If the tax is too high,no one sells.If I had my way I would restructure the whole tax system such that tax is levied on consumption-the more you spend,the more you pay in tax-with reduced tax on essential living to provide a safety net.The problem is our tax system was designed when the world was flat-it's very round and too easy to avoid paying your dues.

Corbyn seems to be a decent bloke-but so was Michael Foot,Tony Benn,Neil Kinnock-all lost despite talking a good game.


It's a pity we couldn't have a leader of a coalition that carries all interests but we aren't set up for that.I have also yet to see a successful company that operates without a strong CEO leading a team of different skill sets.

Anyway,I wasn't interested in buying the Club outright-I'm not that stupid.The plan is well known and redundant

The effect of what you are recommending is a direct tax on the lower earners. An individual like your self who earns say £500k a year only spends a proportion of that so you only pay tax on what you spend. A person earning £20000 spends everything they earn so proportionally the tax is a greater burden. Also VAT is at a fixed rate rather than income tax which is progressive so again the burden of tax is reduced on the higher earner and raised on the lower earner.


To be fair to Osborne lower rates of taxes has been shown to increase Government revenue as foreigners move their tax nationality to Britain so lowering CGT and Corporation Tax could be a good move. The problem is that better results have been achieved by increasing Government spending. The highest rates of debt to GDP were recorded in the UK after the second world war, the Labour Government slashed that by infra structure building. Debt levels remained low until Thatcher came along in 1979 and they went through the roof. The economic evidence of the US and the UK over the longer period shows that Osborne's economic plan is destined to fail for the country.

Silentone- All Governments increase the nil rate tax band so irrelevant

Tell you what I want Markovitch-pay as little tax on profit on the basis I can reinvest it to create more value.More value,more jobs,more wealth creation.I also happen to think that businessmen on the whole spend more wisely than government-why-because most politicians have never had a proper job.The balance was about right until Jimmy Carr,Gary Barlow etc destroyed the notion of investment to create value.Their structures were immoral in that they were using financial engineering to raid tax revenue from other sources.

Taxing less does create more tax revenue-an ideological problem for socialists and it seems the SNP.Here's an example-go to Newcastle airport to drop someone off-you get charged £1 for using their tarmac for 10 mins,£3 for the next few minutes.Meanwhile they bleat on about air passenger duty whilst levying their own APD by taxing you for using the airport drop off point.!!Its fun watching people being dropped off outside the perimeter as a matter of principle.The point is that if you hit people too hard,they will find a way not to pay.

The world is moving towards a point of consumption tax-it's impossible to avoid for the likes of Google and Amazon-have a look at the new gaming tax called POC which has caught all operators in Gib out

Politics dint you just love it. Sadly all politicians areally self interested people with no grip on reality.
The biggest sadness at this time is not about Europe but the destruction of the NHS. Cant even get a flipping appointment to see a Dr nowadays never mind getting any treatment.

Markovitch - You try to paint an imbalanced system regarding purchase tax. Despite what you think, the more you have the more you spend, whatever category your earnings are.

A purchase tax not only balances this out, it also produces a feel-good factor as people have more cash in their pocket.

Laffy wrote:
Must be the first time I've seen the words Gove and decent in the same sentence...

Have I touched a raw nerve?

I rather like Michael Fallon as an alternative-or Rory Stewart who tells you how it is

I would vote for Alan Johnson if he stood-worth reading his recent book

Laffy wrote:
Boris Johnson is a embarrassing buffoon.

Laffy,
Never mind all that,
Just share the wealth and give us all some sure fire share tips

I'll reinvest any profit in going to see the blues,
Win-win

There is no evidence that across the board private entrepreneurs are better investors of money than Governments. The best example is the silent one's beloved NHS. The US health system costs more (% of GDP) than our NHS and yet delivers lower standards of care as measured by every conceivable statistic. You are PWC? I was PWC Corporate Finance Edinburgh that got closed down when they merged with Deloitte in 1991 and over stretched on property rental. Being crap is very democratic.

I didn't understand the Newcastle Airport example but the airport is run as a for profit exercise by GT Capital (? I'm doing this from memory) so the private management company have a share of profits. The parking charges are shocking though, agree on that especially as the machines never seem to take my coins

Useless wrote:
Did you invest in Cairn Energy when he recommended them? They have jumped 30% since then.

Laffy: The balance was about right until Jimmy Carr,Gary Barlow etc destroyed the notion of investment to create value.Their structures were immoral in that they were using financial engineering to raid tax revenue from other sources.

Did they? Where did they learn financial engineering? From Take That!

thesilentone wrote:

We already have a tax like this, it is called VAT, Lets assume VAT is the only tax and it is levied at 25% of gross.
Mr A works and earns £20k pa. He spends all of his money. He pays £5k in tax and his rate of tax is 25%

Mr B works and earns £200k. He spends £100k of his money. His VAT paid is £25k. His rate of tax on his earnings is 25/200 or 12.5%. So his tax rate is half of Mr A's. That is why fixed rate sales tax systems are unfair and so popular with Tory policy analysts . Economically as well they put pressure on people not to spend money, not what you want as a Government.

If you cut tax on rich people you will make them happier but transferring the burden onto poor people will make them unhappy. And there are more poor people

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03...king-up-to-fact.html

thesilentone wrote:
Silentone, I don't know where to start with that opinion. The quality of life improves with more money and spending priorities change but generally the proportion of income which is 'spent' falls the more you have. The Rich combine their spending with investment - they buy classic cars, expensive watches and jewellery, villas abroad, lay down claret etc. The poor generally have nothing to show after their spending.

IDS has another consideration. His Chingford and Woodford Green constituency is one of the most affected in the London area by the proposed boundary changes. He will lose the prosperous avenues of Woodford Green and gain the bleak council estates of Edmonton. It's in his own interests to show some compassion.

Have a look at Netplay-I bought some today.Good yield and well placed in a consolidating sector due to tax changes.

I still like larger well funded oil explorers

Markovitch wrote:
This is only half the story, what you are not valuing is the 100k Mr B puts into the economy and what that 100k creates. Using your maths, Mr B creates 20 x more than Mr A which leads to more demand, jobs, etc etc.....

Net play:

www.lse.co.uk/regulatory-news-article.as...ne=Directors_Dealing

Total holding of Mr Lapping and his companies now nearly half a million by my calculations.

Laffy, given that your pisspot is now full and overflowing, are you now shopping for a new larger one?

Surprised to see you reading LSE Griff, thought this was more your style...socialistworker.co.uk/

I've NEVER read the Socialist worker. I'm not that sort of political animal. I prefer to read widely and make my own mind up, rather than trusting the Daily Mail or believing what the bloke down the pub tells me.

Laffy wrote:
If that was addressing me I work in education... hence my comment re Gove!

I'm friends with Lord Baker-he is doing a great job with his Baker Dearing Educational Trusts.A Lord who actually is worth his salt

thesilentone wrote:

Police in Cumbria today issued a stark warning to the general public over the use of so called 'legal hallucinogens' after a Cumbrian man claimed on social media that rich people will act in the interests of the general population. Police experts confirmed the posts contained large traces of the hallucinogen 'The Daily Mail' which is still legal in Britain despite its known harmful effects. The wife of the victim takes up the story. 'We went to a party and they started passing this Daily Mail thing around, we were told it was legal and safe. But then Dick had to had it every day. His behavior became more erratic shouting at disabled people they were over paid, the neighbours became alarmed when he tried to stuff their children up the chimney calling them George's new apprentices. A spokesman for rich people Mr D Cameron said 'of course making me rich is good for Britain, that's why I need half a dozen off shore trusts'. Mr Mark O'Vitch, professional political bore pointed out that there is no evidence that making rich people richer helps anyone except the people who are rich. However cutting tax for lower paid earners has been seen to directly increase employment levels, investment etc etc

www.foreffectivegov.org/files/budget/cor...e-debate-2-pager.pdf

What's wrong with stuffing children up the chimney ??

Laffy wrote:
Jesus wept, I'm suddenly delighted Laffy isn’t in a position of authority at BP if that's indicative of his judge of character....

It's worth reading what Lord Baker is doing with his University Technical Colleges-he has set up 39 so far.They take in 14 year olds and provide relevant technical skills for employment rather than mindless degrees.Its interesting that secondary schools are running scared of the model down to outdated snobbery towards technical education.

If providing kids with skills to get a technical job is wrong,shoot me

No that's a fine aim and having just read up on Lord Baker's University Technical Colleges they appear to be a decent project. Though I'm surprised you consider degrees to be mindless.

Wanting Boris and Gove to run the country however......

There are many mindless degrees-we all know that.There are many fine degrees too

Cameron and his Tories are struggling with Division.

Osborne and his Budget is struggling with Multiplication, Addition and Subtraction!

Not struggling with subtraction. Channel 4 fact checker on the cuts made and proposed to education funding. Cameron has refused to ring fencing spending on 16-19 year olds so Kenneth Baker's good idea could die a death before it has a chance to gain a foothold

blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-t...education-cuts/20053

I beg to disagree-he has 39 academies up and running with at least £600m of funding.Going forwards,the funding will largely come from guess what the ...private sector.

I am also told that virtually all apprentices who graduate walk straight into a job

Markovitch wrote:
That report assumes all is equal, which it is not. When I was a School Governor a child was worth about £4.5k per year + a top-up from the Barchester fund as the School was VA, so multiply by the school numbers, hey presto your gross income.

1 x Child around £5250
10x Childern £52500

The report certainly does not make it clear that costs do not go up proportionally..........

1 or 100 children the fixed costs remain the same.

Evidence doesn't really bear out what you say though does it. The first UTCs were approved by Labour, really? Then the Conservatives cut back the expansion programme because 'from the Telegraph'


'The DfE is now closely scrutinising proposals for a further 42 schools amid fears that the first wave has not proved popular with pupils and parents.
It is believed that some projects may be blocked altogether while others will be required to provide more information to prove that demand exists.'

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationn...chnical-schools.html


If we go that great old thunderer The Scunthorpe Telegraph you'll see funding delayed by 2 years though it appears subsequently to have opened.
www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.uk/Scunthorpe...62-detail/story.html


Do you have any evidence of any private funding? I see several articles about JCB etc supporting the project but no evidence of any pounds actually changing hands. On the surface it looks like a project started by Labour now not progressing under the Tories

Baker inparticular was very critical of Gove saying
Lord Baker said that changes made by Michael Gove, the former Education Secretary, have resulted in much less emphasis on technical education below the age of 16, leaving British youngsters at risk of falling behind peers abroad.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/further-ed...-from-education.html

Suggest you check out the letter KB sent out on 7 Dec 2025 re performance stats.Its easy to find if you google it.

There is a successful academy in Whitehaven.

To be frank,I couldn't care less whose idea it was-the fact is the scheme is getting many young people into skilled employment and that is what matters.I know KB travels the country pushing the scheme with large companies and Osborne has provided at least £600m of funding to assist-that is commendable for a guy of his age.