TOPIC: This belief Abbott signed nothing but duffers

Where's it come from?

Likes of Marshall and Lawrence on loan were hardly rubbish business!

Lubo, Miller, numerous others. All at a higher level of football.

Yes he probably carried on a season too long, but he signed plenty decent players, as well as the odd Offiong!

2 lucky loans signings hand picked from about 50 duff ones.

Lubo and Miller? A useless great lump and a player who admittedly looked amazing at first, but turn out to have a pretty stinking attitude.

I don't Abbott was that bad overall, but your examples sort of helped prove the point you were tryin to dispel.

Okay Dan we get the picture, you don't like Curle.☺

Come on CCU you know talking sense is an absolute no no on here.
He nearly got us to the playoffs in the first season, infact we improved every season until the last two, hell we even went to two Wembley finals, all on what I believe was a very limited budget.
Not saying he was perfect by any stretch of the imagination and yes he was probably here too long, but its a bit rich when people go on about his duff signings (and I know he paid money for Offiong) when we have a manager at the moment who has already got rid of a lot of his OWN signings, because they weren't deemed good enough.
I await the abuse!!

I honestly think things started to go downhill for Abbott when he made Kavanagh his assistant.
He was doing fairly steadily until then, but that was the beginning of a downward spiral.

His signing were crap though. Still waiting for an example of a good one.

Ben Marshall was on loan from Stoke........no scouting required for looking at the loan list.

Tom Lawrence was Kav's loan signing.

Lubo was another loan signing, again look to the loan market. Lubo was at his peak when Chester (another loan signing) was with us.

Lee Miller was down to Jenkins tapping up a Boro scout (who has passed away since).......nothing to do with Abbott's son.

its not a belief....its fact! just think the season before Abbott got the mallet when the club finished in the top 10. releasing good players and replacing them with Edwards and Cadamarteri. that was it for me, Abbott had to go.

bluebry wrote:
But surely they were good enough to stabilise the club on the pitch and get us into a respectable position. It seems that they were not considered good enough to get us where we want to be. As has been noted, it was difficult to attract the better players at our level when it was perceived that we were on a downward trajectory after several years of mismanagement.

James Chester.

CCU wrote:
Wondered if you were ever going to bite Shot yourself in the foot there, you'e named a couple of loan players (one of which he didn't even sign) and two players that ultimately weren't hat great!

PS fixed your post for you

Tom wrote: Another loan signing. Apparently it was Abbott's wife who secured the deal.

Cayambe wrote:
No they weren't because he never played them, we were relying heavily on loan players. It was the loan players and the odd half decent signing that got us to where we finished last season.

I don't read too much into loan signings. But he did sign some decent players permanently. Berrett (first 2 seasons was good), Miller, Zoko, McGovern, Simek. Then of course there's the good players he signed but failed miserably to recognise their abilities, Madden, Loy, Wells to name a few.

The negatives far outweighed the positives. A lot of his permanent signings were utter shite. Edwards, Guy, Gillies, Curran, Rothery, Offiong etc...

But the big thing for me was his negative attitude towards our club. How many times did he spout along the lines of
"We have to wait until the big clubs like Oldham and Walsall get first dibs on the players, then we wait to feed off all the scaps that no one else wants at the end of the transfer window."

Used to piss me off so much.

Mortonblue wrote:
Curle has nothing to do with this thread!

Aye Lawrence was Kav, was thinking of Chester who Tom named.

Chester was f*cking brilliant tbf. In fact didn't our form dip massively once he left?

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bluebry wrote:
Who were these loan players that dragged us to a 10th placed finish? Hope? Gilliead?

Was it mainly them and only partly to do with our captain and player of the season? What about the 2 strikers that got over 30 goals between them? What about Tom Miller's fine first season? What about some of the top saves from our goalkeeper, or was he on loan as well?

loser wrote:
We played Tranmere away at NY, rumour was Ferguson withdrew him as Hull wanted him. Was true sadly. He was different class Chester...

Always remember winning at Sheffield Wednesday and thinking Lubo and Chester were fantastic.

The goal scorer wasn't the best signing though!

CCU wrote:
Dont think it was the players he eventually got in that were the problem more the lack of planning and preparation tbh. Biggest job was getting the son of his arse and playstation to go and actually meet the players when he did.

If a player know Greggys son was in the stands watching him i dont suppose many would have been that impressed Whereas Dykes and Curles recruitment system seem to have a good reputation enough for a player to take a little bit of notice.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
And clearly they must have their ears pretty close to a number of other clubs dressing room doors to know about the availability restlessness of at least a couple of the players that we.ve signed.

Simek is a good shout. Well done that man


Rory Loy was a good signing and a poor release for me.

Abbott is always going to be one that divides opinion. We had some really good times in a competitive League 1 under him, and got to Wembley twice. We also had some absolutely dreadful times under him.

All managers make good signings and bad signings - Abbott and Curle are no exceptions to that. The recruitment so far this year seems very good, but there's a really good chance that at least one of the signings won't come off.

There were no good times under Kavanagh.

Abbott certainly signed some good players but also made some huge mistakes. If a manager is going to be successful he needs to create a feeling of optimism and confidence around the club and KC does that in way thats ten times more effective than Abbott. I hated hearing him talk the club down all the time and this idea of having to wait all summer to sign players was a joke!

And whether some people on here like it or not as Devitt said yesterday "when a club of the stature of Carlisle United show an interest you certainly sit up and take notice"

I believe by offering him a 2 year deal we.ll have done well on it financially knowing what one of their senior players was on 2 years ago and i cant see any reason he would have been on any more [ probably a bit less ] and Curles incentive scheme would probrably mean if he plays most games .scores a few and keeps the assists coming he.ll in effect double his wages.

I actually think Morcambe are in the shit this year theyve not sold anyone for money and were utter shit for a third of the season yet have re signed almost all the players it smacks to me of knowing they wont find any better for the money theyre willing to pay. And Winnard the guy from Accy has supposedly signed for less money than Accy offered him to get a 2 year deal with an option on a third..

Ian Harte wasn't a bad signing.

Bringing Madine through was as good as a signing.

Apart from Ian Harte, who did Abbott sign that we made money on?

To be fair you could ask that about a few of our managers. The majority of players we've made money on have been youth players we've sold.

Regarding Ian Harte, he was obviously a signing which was hugely influenced by Kavanagh (as much as I hate to credit him)

A lot of the "good signings" people are listing were average do a job signings in reality and many started ok and finished poorly or inconsistently.

Also please don't include that Wembley final against Southampton as "good times".

DeckchairBlue wrote:
Don't give Abbott credit for Madine

The clown didn't think he would ever be good enough. It was only when a championship club (Coventry) took him on loan that it dawned on Abbott that there may actually be a bit of potential there.

Not all his signings were bad, but there was some stinkers.

As the saying goes, if you throw enough shit at the wall, some of it is bound to stick.

PaddockRanger wrote:
Who were the "good players" that were released in the summer of 2012?

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17991140

Most of that squad was offered a new deals, but the budget had been cut so the deals were great so many key players (Zoko, Lubo, Taiwo) all left. The replacements were never going to be as good... undoubtedly, Abbott took a punt on Cademarteri's fitness - you could see the quality with him but it clear early on he'd barely ever be available. One year max is what he should have got.

If Abbott had been allowed to maintain that budget, maybe even speculate and extend it a bit, we might well have kicked on the following season.

For what it's worth, I think he made a fair few decent signings and plenty of duffers too. Curle isn't immune to that (Iliev, Smith, Hery hardly set the world alight. Abbott was also competing for new signings at L1 level, not L2. At that level, we probably are second fiddle when it comes to signing some players (yes, I did find it a bit infuriating when he talked up Bury etc). At this level, we'll have one of the bigger budgets and should be looking to pick off other clubs better players.

Well he spotted the talent in Wells and Madden and fetched them here...

Granted he didn't have the nouse or bravery to play them enough but a couple of better lower league strikers your unlikely to find

MerseysideBlue wrote:
For that to happen someone would have to explain the meaning of the word SPECULATE to Jenkins and Nixon

Abbott had a very reasonable budget. He wasted about £500,000 on Offiong and Hurst alone in fees and wages for very little return apart from a promising start from Hurst before Abbott got coaching him!

Summer of 2012 was when we'd just finished 8th and you'd have expected us to invest to put us in a stronger position for another crack at the Play off's


But no Nixon announced his clearout of back room staff as cost cutting measures several members of staff left behind the scenes all very harshly treated Abbot had his budget slashed he signed Edwards (Just didn't work) and an Injury Prone (Cadamarteri) and Bugno but that was it François Zoko Tom Taiwo & Ľubomír Michalík all rejected deals and left for more money elsewhere

Miller got Injured so he signed Jake Jarvis on Loan and then Michael O'Halloran he then spent the Money from the Spurs game on loaning Joe Garner from Watford he then Loaned Paddy Madden to Yeovil and after a successful loan rather than bring him back and play him he sold him for Peanuts

Loy Broke his leg at Christmas Chris Chantler also got injured

a few unsuccessful loans in Kallum Higginbotham Sean McGinty Valentin Gjokaj

Sean O'Hanlon Mathieu Manset both came in on short term deals

For me it all went downhill from there Abbot should have left then with his stock still relatively high but he stubbornly stayed on and attempted another season

The few lucky good signings he made were balanced by the signing of Mike Edwards who unbelievably started as centre half on the first game of his second season having been the worst centre half to play for the club for 20 years.

As said above, Abbott always talked the club down and he was always blaming everyone else but himself. Some of his interviews were a disgrace. We can't compete with this team, little Carlisle, no one wants to come this far north, it's not my fault. He should've been sacked long before he was. I'm not sure any manager was as universally disliked by the end of his reign since Aiden Mccaffery.

thefoot wrote: Lubo was twice the player that either of our current central defenders are... and don't forget it was a division higher.

walwynlegend wrote:
True enough. Once the teams were read out that day I felt sickened, was obvious we were going to get tonked.

How has Greg's career gone since he left us?

So over a 5 year period he proved himself a solid league 1 managed who ended up being hamstrung by budget constraints. You'd have thought there'd be plenty league 2 clubs would jump at the chance of signing a bloke like that. Why hasn't it happened?

I do feel for Gregg he always seemed like a nice guy, I certainly think that his thinking changed over the years with us and he became heavily influenced by the custodians; their thinking was echoed in his management and the 'little Carlisle' attitude.

He did himself no favours with the media towards the end and in those last couple of years, it wouldn't surprise me if that put other L2 clubs off him.

I don't think anybody is saying that he signed "nothing but duffers" because as some posters have correctly said, Miller, Michalik, Marshall, Simek, Zoko, etc did come in and make a positive impact, at least at the beginning. The point is that you felt that these players were often found by luck rather than judgement and we were reliant on others to offer us these players rather than proactively going out and finding them.

By the end we had next to no scouts, perhaps even none at all, Abbott's son aside. That does not point to a professional set-up and the number of players that were brought in at the end of his tenure who turned out to be frankly crap was reflective of the 'that'll do' approach. The difference now is that we actually have a very capable network of employees who go out and watch these players regularly and make an informed judgement, rather than Abbott's son watching them on Youtube or whatever he did. Nobody is saying that Curle is perfect as he too has brought in a couple of "duffers" but the professionalism with which we actively go out and source players is now streets ahead of anything we've had in the last couple of years. It's premature to talk about our promotion chances but the early signs are that we are really going for it this year, bringing in a high calibre of players, and whether Curle is arrogant or doesn't get on with Billy Paynter, we are progressing for the first time in years.

The early bird catches the worm and the signings of Adams and Devitt in particular are testament to the job that Curle and Dykes are doing. We've got Jabo Ibehre here who is miles away from his family and has spent his career down south, but he's bought into the direction in which the club are wanting to go and scored 17 goals last season. When would that ever have happened under Abbott? For what it's worth I actually quite liked Abbott at the start but things soured quickly and his constant references to "little Carlisle" that other posters have alluded to was embarrassing. That can't have done anything to attract better players. We aren't Barcelona, we aren't Bayern Munich, but we are a relatively big club at this level and that's reflected in the way Curle talks us up. Players are coming here because we are a big club and they want to play for us, I just think too many people are stuck in their ways and have this negative mentality which ultimately hinders our progression. Until we start thinking big and acting big then we'll stay where we are. Curle is changing that slowly but surely and long may it continue.

Pedals can you email the club with the final part of that post...its exactly right....these are the ones not thinking big enough....nixon comparing us to yeovil was nowt short of a shan


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I liked Greg but he did carry on a year too long and then hapless kav continued the slide.
One thing I hated though was the way he talked us down. Can't get players up here. Little Carlisle. Comparing us to the little Lancashire clubs. The current owners do the same thing over and over again.
Those who have had success look on things as challenges to overcome not problems to hinder us.
We can be a much much bigger club than we currently are. Players will come here if they see ambitious people at the helm. Curle is proving that.
Think premier league and if we fall short to the championship or even league one then so be it but never be content or think small.
Greg talked like he was a beaten man at the end. Nixon and Jenkins often talk like beaten men.
We need optimism and drive. Realism can hide behind that. Pessimism and defeatism should have no place at our club.

markredfox73 wrote:

markredfox73 wrote:
The point Nixon made or was trying to make was that we can compete as a league one club but that we would struggle to compete in the Championship based on attendances and other income. He gave Scunthorpe and Yeovil as examples of clubs that have failed to step up a league because of the increased financial demand, wages etc etc

This seems an entirely reasonable statement to make considering last time we were in that league we attracted 4,500 average attendances, even when we were pushing for promotion, and Yeovil averaged 6,800 in their season there...

FishIslandBlues wrote:
Agreed. For me, Abbott is a reasonable lower league manager who stayed too long here. I am surprised he's not got another manager's job - reckon he'd have kept York up if they'd appointed him last season.

The tide turned against him from when he was linked to the Hull job in the summer of 2012 and he seemed to start to believe his own hype. His obstinent approach in media intvws and to any form of perceived criticism alienated fans. I also suspect he knew in his heart of hearts that he'd taken the club as far as he could go and around the same time took a few shortcuts with his Nixon constrained budget that backfired - like not having right backs, paying Miller what he wanted and giving Cadamarteri and Edwards their final big pay days.

I think he was OK as a coach but wasn't a manager.

The Archer wrote:
This is not entirely reasonable at all. Those were dark dark days and a world away from the time yeovil or Scunthorpe made it into that league with all its current glitz and glamour. When we were last there getting gates of 4500, chelsea and Newcastle were getting a quarter of what they are now. Clubs like wolves or Middlesbrough could barely muster 10k. The reason? It was a terrible terrible time to go to a football match. Hooliganism was rife. Going to a game was dangerous and difficult. No families. No ladies. Just herded in and kicked out. Or kicked in if you were unlucky.
On top of that the government hated you, the police too and facilities up and down the country were terrible. In short, 4500 was not a bad effort for such a club as ours. Compare others at that time. Big clubs who would take 1500+ away fans now would take 200 then.
Scunny and yeovil are half the size we are and had we been in the championship when they were we would average 10k or more.
For Nixon to compare different generations like that is incredibly misleading and inaccurate. For more accurate potential he ought to be looking at a Barnsley or even a burnley.
Scunny or yeovil couldn't muster 15000 home fans or more for a big game.
Yes, maybe the wages and costs would hold us back. Not denying that. But let's at least get there and deal with that at the time. That's why we need outside investment, big sponsorship deals, a canny management team. Not insurmountable problems, just new challenges.

bruntonpete wrote:
Nixon didn't make the comparison to our mid-1980s second tier attendances, I did. Clubs like Newcastle, Leeds and Sheff Weds brought 1,500+ in those days to Brunton Park yet we couldn't muster more than 5K in gates even with a superb side and canny management team. This club would struggle to average much more than Yeovil did in the Championship. 8K tops in my book.

That's not to say we shouldn't aim to get there or even do a Blackpool and get to the top flight. But Nixon is right on the comparison and challenges we face..

Nixon has alluded to it too.
Very few clubs brought those numbers and the 4500 quoted were among the really low gates. I was at most of them and we had some cracking crowds for the bigger games. Aside from that, it was a different time so we can't possibly compare.
The 95 season or 08 season would be a better guide. Carlisle have got the potential but we won't realise it under Nixon or Jenkins with their views and lack of dynamism.
We all know the pitfalls and problems but we don't go on radio like Greg or JN and bemoan bad luck or talk the club down if we want to promote and boost the club. It is like listening to Doctor Doom. Who would want to flock back to BP after that!