TOPIC: Labour Party Leadership Battle

So, only a few days until we hear that Corbyn has become the new leader of the Labour Party.

I have to concede that the more I listen to him the more I like him, he appears to be a man of conviction and passion, not just a ' say what everyone want's to hear' politician.
He is the type of person that politics badly needs to restore the faith of the voters, I hope he does not get sucked down into the shxxxtty mess with the rest.

He only has one problem, he is to lead a bunch of idiots who are lost in the wilderness of self gain and over inflated ego's, especially those bell-ends who control the Militant Unions.

Good luck Mr Corbyn, my god your going to need it............

Having conviction is all well and good but his ideas are electoral suicide.

Still, he's a better bet than that weasel Burnham. He would support both sides of an argument in the same sentence if he could. Horrible man.

The other big Corbyn story doing the rounds is an attempted smear on his credibility based on prior claims that Osama bin Laden should have been tried in a court of law, instead of being executed. First off, I am alarmed that people find his statements so alarming. International Courts may not be as expedient, but they would have provided us with the perfect opportunity to belatedly state that these are our values. We put people on a stand, try them and convict them using a combination of evidence and human intuition. The denouement to this sorry episode should have been a trial, not a Kathryn Bigelow film.

I think we're on extremely dangerous ground when people complain about someone suggesting that we follow due process, and when closure is found in a multiplex instead of an international court.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/31...een-tried-not-killed

If, as expected, Jeremy Corbyn wins the Labour leadership election, he will immediately have a historic opportunity to change political culture for the better, for good. What’s more, it’s an opportunity he will have no choice but to take.

It all springs from what looks like a massive problem. Corbyn has been Labour’s most rebellious MP, voting against his party more than 500 times. That would make it practically impossible for him to demand loyalty from the parliamentary Labour party, especially since fewer than the 36 who nominated him actually support him, with Margaret Beckett even describing herself as a moron for lending him her votes. Corbyn would be a contemptible hypocrite if he were to try to crack the whip that he himself so gleefully defied.

The only way out of this is to perform some political judo, harnessing the force of his biggest disadvantage in his own favour. This he can do quite easily by announcing that under his leadership, there will be no whip. Necessity will be the murderer of convention.

Rather conveniently, this would not just be an expedient move but a necessary and principled one. The whip has had its day. The public is sick of party-line-toeing politicians and want independent people answerable to constituents, not apparatchiks. That is precisely why Corbyn is so popular in the first place. He is seen as his own man, not an identikit career politician trying to climb the greasy pole.

Not something I'm interested in but I've been reading all the smear stories, then reading what Corbyn has actually said and agreeing with him. I'd definitely vote for him to be their leader - if you're winding up the likes of Tony Blair and the Daily Mail you know you're doing something right.

CookieThumper wrote:
Tony Blair has criticised Jeremy Corbyn more in the press in the last 3 months, than he has criticised David Cameron in the last five years. Says it all.

cufcsim wrote:
A very interesting thought, and one I tend to agree with, certainly in most cases. Corbyn has an interesting record, and he scares not only his own party, but the tories as well which is all to the good. This could massively shake politics in this country up completely, and if his message is properly put across could change the country for the better.

I still think it is wrong to say that General Elections can only be won from the centre, and I also think there are a lot of left leaning people who have become massively disenfranchised over the decades since Thatcher came to power. This is a chance to start rebuilding the sense of community we have lost in this country over the past 35 years. Corbyn seems to be about old values (as well as some of his defence views - which I don't agree with) of actually caring about people who are less well off, and not just the selfish insular view of politics which has prevailed since we were told there is no such thing as community.

Unfortunately I am unconvinced he will receive the support of many of his MPs because there are very few (if any) proper socialist MPs left in the Labour party.

I do agree, the more Tony Bliar criticizes something the more people listen to it. such is his fall from grace.

Corbyn does seem to be likely to be voted in. firstly because there aren't any really credible candidates standing against him. Burnham comes across as slimy and untrustworthy. Kendal is a non entity and Cooper is Balls light. Very little to compete against there. Also the others will be taking votes off each other rather than Corbyn.
I think the public have taken to Corbyn because he comes across as an honest bloke who stands up for something even if you don't agree with it. he also offers something different to what we've had for years, integrity. there may also be an element of back the outsider who the established regime are ganging up on. People are sick of the form politics in this country.

I don't like many of his policies, Nationalisation is a no no. We've all seen how badly governments run departments let alone companies.

It is maybe the cage rattle that politicians in this country need to wake up and serve the population and not themselves.

If Corbyn wins anyone aged around 45 to 50 will never see a new labour goverment.They dont seem to grasp that the countrys sick of scroungers and hangers on, they failed last time with there anti buisness stance now they want to privatise everything get rid of the nuclear deterant wish bin laden was still alive why go back to Labour party of 50 years ago .The conservatives are a shoe in next time for one reason Boris will be there leader everyone loves a looney so thats 15 years with out a labour goverment allready .

The Labour Party want to privatise everything?

CumbrianView wrote:

But its not about winning an election, its about gaining a strong political voice for the millions being trodden down by the conservatives and big business.
jelly wrote:

cufcsim wrote: You copied and pasted that from a Guardian article, at least credit it!

I like him. I also like Nigel Farage.

I would never vote for either of them, but I respect the fact that they have their own opinions and are prepared to defend them. How often do you see that in a career politician? Ask Burnham what he thinks about a topic, he'll reply, what would you like me to think? Yvette Balls is just Ed lite. Face like a deranged chipmunk. Has a smile like Blair; No matter what the mouth does, the smile never, never reaches the eyes. Insincerity in a nutshell.

I have no use for politicians of any kind, but when unsure I apply the Billy Connolly test; If you met this person in a pub, would you stay and have a drink with them? If not, don't vote for them.

If I met Corbyn or Farage in a pub, I'd love to have a pint with them. I'd strongly disagree with a lot of what they had to say, but I'd respect them for saying it. The other lot, I'd make my excuses and leave.

I probably wouldn't make excuses to be honest Badger, I'd just leave. Mind I'd punch Cameron and Clegg before I went.

To be honest whoever gets it out of the 4, I can see the Labour party being also rans for many years sadly....

One for you to sort out Mr Corbyn....

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"One tube manager was paid almost as much as the prime minister last year, a Freedom of Information request has revealed.

The Transport for London (TfL) data, uncovered by the Times, reveals that one control room manager earned £61,063 in overtime last year, on top of his £77,400 salary.

At a total of £138,463, this is just £4,037 less than David Cameron earns.

In 2012, a technical officer took home £59,618 in overtime, and a year later another manager made an extra £56,113. Last year, in total, TfL paid out £41 million in overtime, with the vast majority going to London Underground staff. Indeed, the amount paid to Tube workers has risen by nearly £3.7 million in the last three years.

However, TfL blames the high level of overtime payments on the tube modernisation programme which has been taking place over the last year, which has meant asking some specialist engineers and skilled project staff to work overtime.

"We routinely review our use of overtime, keeping a close eye on the balance between overtime and normal hours working, to ensure we operate with value for money for fare and taxpayers," it says.

Richard Tracey, the Greater London Authority transport spokesman for the Conservatives, said it was hypocritical of unions to strike over pay when staff were 'sneakily' doubling their salaries through overtime.

However, while TfL pays staff an extra 25% per hour for overtime, Tube drivers don't get it. They work to rosters allocating them either to early shifts or late ones.

As a spokesman for the train drivers' union ASLEF tells the Telegraph: "Our drivers don't work overtime – so whoever is getting that overtime money, it's not Tube drivers."

While a Tube driver has a very generous starting salary - just under £50,000 - there are downsides to the job. Even without the Night Tube, shifts starting as early as 4.45 in the morning, and end as late as 1.30 at night.

Alcohol is banned for eight hours before starting a shift, and drivers can be required to work for as many as 17 weekends in a row - making family life already difficult.

Indeed, the recent strikes that have brought London to a standstill have centred around the prospect of night shifts, rather than just pay.

Last month, the opening of the Night Tube service, which had been due to start on September 12, was suspended because of plans for further strikes.

Why should that have anything to do with Corbyn? Surely Boris is in charge of that.

why dont they just recruit night shift workers then? I'm sure there are plenty of immigrants who would snatch them up.

If theyre working that much overtime then surely Boris needs to give them more personnel?. More workers = less overtime. Is that too difficult for you to grasp Silentone?

Dancingbear wrote:

It's called ' milking the system ' endemic in Unionised Companies (especially those sponsored by the taxpayer) it starts and the top and works it way down. Something I think you may be familiar with.............

Be interesting to know how many of the Blair haters (on here and in the country generally ) quite happily voted for him 3 times in a row.

As for it not being true that you can only win elections from the centre, you may be right though you have to go back at least 40 years since it last happened. Now, how did that turn out. . .

Old Jeremy is really going to struggle to form a shadow cabinet. Apparently Ed Miliband was approached to be shadow foreign secretary and turned him down. Andy Burnham will accept anything going but most former Blairites will give him the cold shoulder in the belief that the party will elect a new centrist leader within a couple of years.

That's the problem with being the most rebellious Labour mp. You don't win any friends in your own parliamentary party.

Sadly our democratic system does not allow for the Machiavellian type, or the strong individuals who make those leaders we remember. Keeping everyone happy is impossible, keeping the majority happy is a compromise. Strong beliefs coupled to the power of conviction has no place in the Houses of Parliament.

jelly wrote:
No you don't, Thatcher won from the far right.

thesilentone wrote:
Billy Paynter earned more than our Prime Minister last season. Is that for Corbyn to sort out too?

jelly wrote:
My conscience is clean on that one. Before the 1997 election I was telling everyone I knew not to vote Labour. Even lost a couple of friends over it. There was just something about Blair even then which made my skin crawl. Couldn't put my finger on it, but I knew he was rotten.

Back then I hated him but didn't know why. Now we all know why.

"Billy Paynter earned more than our Prime Minister last season. Is that for Corbyn to sort out too?"

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No, but he will have to deal with the Militant Unions who bleed the taxpayers for self gain. You know, the fat lazy Militant Bully Boy one's with the sod you I'm alright Jack attitude.............


"

Moorlad wrote:
Blimey Moorlad, really!?! - you know exactly what I meant and you know it.

Also arguable that Thatcher won by attracting working class voters with policies that were designed to show they could get on in life, not just aimed at existing Tories.

Victory for Comrade Corbyn. The folk who backed him at 200/1 will be having a laugh!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Tube drivers are scroungers who milk the system. Lucky MPs don't do that eh, how many tube drivers got their moats cleaned at the taxpayer's expense?

Marko, let's balance that one a little. Yes the tories were up to their necks in the expenses scandal but........ how many tories ended up in clink for their misdemeanours?

It don't matter what flag they fly, they've all been as bad as each other!!!!!! Ego's over substance and integrity.

Markovitch, Tube drivers milk way more out of the system than it would cost to clean a moat !!! In reality, a Tube Driver takes around £50.00 for every hour he actually works. Why should a Tube Driver get over double what a bus driver just above him/her gets ? The Bus Driver has a far more difficult and responsible job, that requires more skills.

How do you know? Unless you've done both jobs.

Moorlad wrote:

The Militant Republican Bully Boy Gimps at the top of the RMT that have abused their position and held London to ransom have achieved one thing, the escalation of the introduction of these: Read it and weep Moorlad...........

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/...d-fleet-9785034.html

Will you give it a f***ing rest. Did a tube driver shag your wife or summat?.

To get this thread back on topic, it looks like the knives are already out for the new leader, despite his huge mandate. All the plastic Tories otherwise known as Blairites jumping ship and putting their own petty grievances and ambitions before their party's interests, or the country's interests. If they truly believed in democracy they would grit their teeth and support their leader, because if they don't, the country is in danger of becoming a one-party state by default.

With no effective opposition, there is no reason why the Conservatives shouldn't win election after election. Obviously what they want just so they can sneer and say "I told you so".

I am so glad that Burnham got trashed though. That bloke gives me the same feeling in my guts as Blair has ever since 1995. Pure slime. As for Cooper and Kendall..... not even household names in their own houses.

In some ways I feel sorry for Corbyn, but at the same time I respect him. He is a throwback to the seventies, to what the Labour party used to be before the New Labour mob made them Tory-Lite, but at least he stands for something, not just what will get him a good headline tomorrow. He hasn't been groomed, styled, voice-coached and focus-grouped into a mindless drone like the other three candidates. He seems like a man who has always held true to his principles and beliefs, no matter how unpopular it makes him, or how much the press smear him. I respect him for that, even though I'd never vote for him. The Tories used to have someone like that. What was her name again?........

So we are going to slag off tube drivers because they earn a good wage while the Chancellor of the Exchequer keeps millions of pounds in offshore trusts to avoid UK tax! Hypocritical much

I think we are all looking for straight talking politicians who say what they will do then do what they say, however their is nothing democratic about the house of commons. Corbyn sounds good but, by putting his head on the block as leader and to do any good he needs the support of his party. This is a contradiction for him, as in his career he has been one of the most disloyal in political history.

Corbyn is a man of principles who has engaged people in politics, however his politics will never receive enough support from those who can influence the outcome of an election. So Labour are set for a long time in opposition and the rest of us can enjoy the policies of Cameron and Osbourne for the next 10 years, god help us.

Stamfordblue wrote:
I agree to a large extent, but I think in this age of social media, its not as easy for Newspapers to tell people how to think as it once was.

As it was , I think labour had lost Scotland ....now there's maybe a chance of regaining some of its core voters ?
Great to see labour getting back to its core values .

I agree they may return to their core values but will those appeal to what is now a more middle class britain?I think the changes in society since the 60's/70's labour heyday have done for tradtional socialsim as Mr Corbyn proposes. New labour/tory lite made them appear electable again after a long period in opposition but look where that got us?

Hes going to have a tough time when it comes to justifying some of his positions on defence i think. Wanting to negotiate with Argentina over transferring sovereignty of the Falklands, being pro Irish republicanism, wanting to cut the size of what is already a pretty depleted armed forces, withdrawing from NATO. Whats going to happen in Northern Ireland if Corbyn becomes PM? I cant see a British Prime Minister who has long ties with republicanism going down too well.

I like the guy a lot and his honesty is refreshing, but hes going to get hammered on some of these things.

Oh, these issues won't be a problem, he won't win a general election.

Bruntonpasty wrote:
That's the worrying thing. An effective opposition can hold a government to account, and provide a real threat in the event of an election. Without an opposition, you have a one party state.

thesilentone wrote:
Why would that make me, or anybody, weep?

Weirdo.

50 quid to the person who can find an actual quote of him saying that he would withdraw from NATO.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Well, I don't know about you, but I've really enjoyed this Labour leadership campaign.

I can't wait till next year's.

Had to laugh at Cameron saying Corbyn is a threat to the security of families. Who was it that abandoned his daughter down the pub again? What a tart.

The Labour leadership battle has by and large been fought with dignity from the candidates. Next year however, the real sport will begin, as the tories start to rip each other to bits over Europe.

Should be great