The Politics Thread

That and The Road to Wigan Pier-no particular order.

We seem to building a consensus on here-most want the welfare state to be the safety net, not the crutch.

Certainly can't argue with the second part. What pisses me off is how many of your wastrels end up in Scotland.

Let's not forget that Orwell was a committed socialist who fought in Spain for the Marxists.

Not true. He fought for the Republicans against the Fascists.

Wouldn’t it be good if everyone started to take more responsibility for their own actions? By and large I’m a firm believer that you end up in life where you deserve to end up.
For those who unfortunately have been unable to influence their life the way they had hoped there is the safety net of the welfare state. Unfortunately this was hijacked by the bone-idle a long time ago and is being abused into bankruptcy.

As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.

Google Orwell in the workers party of Marxist unification. He had to leave Spain after they were outlawed

So untrue, that he wrote a book about it.
'Homage to Catalonia' George Orwell's personal account of his experiences and observations fighting for the Repiblican Army during the Spanish Civil War

Even after being cut to ribbons, they oppose Brexit-absolutely pathetic.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-will-whip-labour-to-oppose-brexit-deal-680b377th

There is no doubt Orwell was a socialist idealist who if alive today would have been a member of Momentum and would have travelled to Venezuela to admire and celebrate the socialist regime. I think though like the Corbynistas he too would have been disconnected from the working classes feeling them to be too aspirational, too protective of their heritage or in the case of the workshy, unfathomable. Orwell was a genius as a writer but a dismal failure as a political activist. Today's left-wing writers like Owen Jones are following in his footsteps.

For God sake Google it. The Republican army was made up of a series of militias and he fought in one of them. Its in bloody Wikipedia!

Orwell saw before his time the value of propaganda as a way to control the masses. If you look at Labour vs Conservative as a philosophical question it becomes do you want to chase money or do you want to have the basics provided but have less money. If we look at the second option we find that the happiest countries in the world do just that. The US never figures whereas Scandinavia is always top.

The question then becomes if a significant proportion of the population seek happiness over wealth why isn't that reflected in the press. Orwell was an idealist seeking a socialist country, Corbyn is a Marxist looking to raise taxes on those earning 80 grand by £20 a month. Stock phrases repeated. Alan is a scrounger but Philip day who lives in dubai to avoid tax is a risk taking entrepreneurs. If the top half a dozen Internet companies paid their tax we could overfund the NHS.

But anti semitism and those immigrants eh!

Wouldn’t it be good if everyone started to take more responsibility for their own actions? By and large I’m a firm believer that you end up in life where you deserve to end up.
For those who unfortunately have been unable to influence their life the way they had hoped there is the safety net of the welfare state. Unfortunately this was hijacked by the bone-idle a long time ago and is being abused into bankruptcy.

As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.

I think the clue was in the words 'by and large'

As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.

I think the clue was in the words 'by and large'

What about those who are bi and large through no fault of their own?

C'mon we are all masters of our own destiny. Some want a big bite out of life, some want to nibble the edges.

It would be a boring life if we were all the same.

Like all systems there are some that fall through the net and are not getting the help they need.

Our public services lack good Management and responsibility, but with a system loaded with Policy and Procedure, Work Schemes and Grievances, what chance does a good manager have ?

The best way is to avoid the whole system and look after yourself.

The problems arise when we politicise the whole debate, and pick on soft targets in a system we all contributed to in the first place.

Let's have some transparency, to start, make all drug companies put a retail price on every product.

Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.

The solution is surely to take the nhs and welfare out of politics and have both run by independent commissions.

For once I agree with Blair

https://apple.news/AvPHMXXOERl664PtmbiXK0g

It would be a boring life if we were all the same.

I don't see anyone suggesting we should all be the same?

Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.

There is a problem with a small minority of people gaming the welfare system, but the problem is how to address it. Specifically how do you tackle them while ensuring the genuine users are left unaffected? Universal Credit was hailed as a solution but it's been a nightmare and caused massive problems for genuine users of the system, sometimes they don't get paid on time and for people who are already struggling to make ends meet one missed payment can mean disaster.

As a disabled person I used to claim working tax credits, disability element, and the system was completely ludicrous. It was based on your previous years earnings and they could be massive changes between years and when i went from a low paid job to a high paid job I could still claim the same amount of tax credits as before and wouldn't take effect to the next year.

I'm coming round to universal credit as its fair. The people complaining are those that are career benefit users as they don't get as much as before. I have a current UC claim as a safety net, because with having a long term illness theres times where I can't work and my hours vary. The employer and yourself if youre self employed send your monthly income and you get what you're entitled to that month. Currently I get £1.38 a month but I know i'll get more if for some reason I can't work during a month - A fair system I think.

Society needs safety nets-to help those less fortunate, those who have life changing events.Sadly the NHS has become a crutch-just like the welfare system, but when the government attempt to police them, there is an outcry.It ultimately hurts the people it’s supposed to help-not the hangers on, the lazy, or those who simply want to go through life feeding off others.

There is a problem with a small minority of people gaming the welfare system, but the problem is how to address it. Specifically how do you tackle them while ensuring the genuine users are left unaffected? Universal Credit was hailed as a solution but it's been a nightmare and caused massive problems for genuine users of the system, sometimes they don't get paid on time and for people who are already struggling to make ends meet one missed payment can mean disaster.

Well i.m afraid that UC is here to stay it would now be almost impossible and vastly expensive to unravel in fact it would actually be cheaper just to give all the claimants two weeks extra money to make the transition from fortnightly to monthly payments work.

But my man in the know says there's a very simple solution and that's to put a start date for someones UC in place with defined payment dates but carry on paying the old benefits to the point where it transfers over to UC with no gap or loss of benefits then a month later work out how much they've actually been paid over what they were actually due [ it should be two weeks money but in a lot of cases it's actually less] and then recover it by spreading the repayments/deductions over the next 12 months.

You're correct NS - the current issue with it is the 5 week wait. It's changing to what you've suggested where housing benefit still continue to be paid until you get your first UC payment.

Off the subject but food banks come into play - I can understand if theres a change in circumstances but the benefit system is fair, I don't understand how food bank usage has shot up so much.

I agree-the transition has been managed badly but easily sorted.

You're right again NS - 20 years ago they were no food banks but things were much worse income-wise.

I volunteered for a week(yes you can't really take a fair balance in a year) in a food bank, you can't really judge in only a wekk, but we only had 1 genuine customer, the other 2 were providing fake referals.

It was a while ago and i don't know how the referal system works now but i'm now against food banks and think people are taking advantage of them. if people know its there they aren't going to help themselves. Its like giving a gambling addict money after the've lost it each time.

The Food bank system is a convenient way for big business to clear it's conscience.

The Supermarkets have monumental amounts of so-called ' waste ' food due to massive over supply which would have ended up in Landfill. So it suits both them and the Government of the day to re-distribute it to the needy. And how The Trussell Trust have exploited it !

A CEO on over £80k a year, with a pledge from the Government to pour even more into this project.

The actual number of food parcels distributed continues grows faster than the numbers who use it as they quickly work out how to get multiple numbers above there allowance.

In many cases ' shopping ' for neighbours and making a few bob to subsidise the drug trade. When the wheels fall off, and they will, it will be the real needy who suffer the most.

Wouldn’t it be good if everyone started to take more responsibility for their own actions? By and large I’m a firm believer that you end up in life where you deserve to end up.
For those who unfortunately have been unable to influence their life the way they had hoped there is the safety net of the welfare state. Unfortunately this was hijacked by the bone-idle a long time ago and is being abused into bankruptcy.

As Nobby says that's bollocks. Try telling that to those who have ended up disabled through no fault of their own.

You do know what ‘by and large’ means? Not everyone but in general, and there are always exceptions to the rule. You mention the disabled, who do you think I was referring to in my second paragraph?

Would be great if folk could read the full post and understand it before replying, it would save themselves from looking daft.

Typical reply from an "i'm all right Jack.

It’s a reply from someone who’s sick to death of hearing how badly done to people are in life whilst totally ignoring the fact they’ve [censored] their life up all by themselves.

Nobody seems to take responsibility anymore - reckless spending, not prioritising, making stupid decisions, generally being irresponsible - then when it all goes tits-up it’s someone else’s fault, usually the government. They think society owes them something. If you want anything in life go and earn it rather than demanding it.

I genuinely feel for the people who the welfare state was set up to protect; the disabled, the infirm, the unfortunate. Their ‘safety net’ has been hijacked by the dossers, those who can’t be arsed to contribute, the bone-idle. In an effort to combat this trend genuine people inevitably get caught up in the crossfire, the authorities shouldn’t be chastised for this, the hijackers should.

Unfortunately it’s now a career choice to be on benefits and as future generations see their parents choosing this path they won’t know any better and the trend continues.

I tend to agree with what Franks been saying on this subject a lot.

People have to realise there’s no easy fix in life and there’s no easy way out. Too many people expect things on a plate and it doesn’t happen like that.

I had a gambling addiction, through no fault but my own (yes they were influences) but no one held a gun to my head and told me to do it. I was 24 in 18k worth of debt, the only person to sort out the situation was myself and I worked bloody hard to sort out my addiction and pay off the debt without help from anyone and I’m bloody chuffed I did.

But it makes me sick those that expect everything, won’t work, won’t help themselves want want want - you’ve got to work hard for it!

Franks right again that the people suffering are those in genuine need the disabled, widowed and children in poverty IE people in situation through no fault of their own.

Did you see Denise Coates pay packet for the year that was announced today at £277 million?. Great stuff eh apart from the fact they restrict your account if you look like you might win a few quid.

You're right again NS - 20 years ago they were no food banks but things were much worse income-wise.

I volunteered for a week(yes you can't really take a fair balance in a year) in a food bank, you can't really judge in only a wekk, but we only had 1 genuine customer, the other 2 were providing fake referals.

It was a while ago and i don't know how the referal system works now but i'm now against food banks and think people are taking advantage of them. if people know its there they aren't going to help themselves. Its like giving a gambling addict money after the've lost it each time.

As far as I'm aware a person can be referred 3 times, officially, to a food bank by agencies such as social services, the Law Centre, Citizens advice ...the food bank should keep records to stop abuse.
I heard a story that some people go with a list of what they want.

As to the increase in FBs....build it and they will come as I have said before. I used to give occasionally ..not anymore. Maybe food vouchers given out by the DSS is the answer for those waiting for UC for instance. Too many chancers out there