What does a train guard / conductor do ?

thesilentone wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: What else can they do when the employer won’t listen Mark?

Maybe Britain should go on-strike to make the EU agree with our terms, what do you think DB, are you not feeling a bit downtrodden ?

Not strike but maybe withold all payments.

www.gov.uk/government/news/report-162018...tm_content=immediate

Nasty incident

Anyone traveling by Train today ? have fun, the RMT shirkers are all off to the Challenge Cup Final....by Bus !!

thesilentone wrote: Anyone traveling by Train today ? have fun, the RMT shirkers are all off to the Challenge Cup Final....by Bus !!

They’ll have a job on the challenge cup final was in August.

I’m on my third train of the day. Perhaps you don’t know what you’re talking about?

At least it’s raining-no sunbathing today lads.

Radio this morning stated that the new Northern carriages on order do not need guards-oh for new carriages on the Newcastle to Carlisle line.Also that talks were planned but RMT moved the agenda goalposts.

Meanwhile it’s the poor passengers who suffer whilst the RMT deluded themselves thinking they are doing all a favour.Maybe they should ask the passengers after someone independent provides the full facts.

Laffy wrote: At least it’s raining-no sunbathing today lads.

Radio this morning stated that the new Northern carriages on order do not need guards-oh for new carriages on the Newcastle to Carlisle line.Also that talks were planned but RMT moved the agenda goalposts.

Meanwhile it’s the poor passengers who suffer whilst the RMT deluded themselves thinking they are doing all a favour.Maybe they should ask the passengers after someone independent provides the full facts.

Your quite right Andrew they don't but the minute they try to use one without a guard on board there will be picket lines at every driver depot. So let's see how that turns out then when Northern can no longer put out emergency plans because they won't know what staff they have and they don't.

The RMT will keep this dispute going till May and her Muppets are history and the renationalisation is underway and it won't be an issue any longer.

Or Northern can tell May to get [censored] and they're no longer going to carry out Tory party ideology dirty work for them before the nations travelling public kick Arriva off every single Franchise now and for the next hundred years.

ASLEF haven’t even been approached yet, they cant get office staff in to drive trains then.
Oh, and Arriva have approached Dft to change the terms of their franchise...

You sound like Ned Ludd Barry-Northern have offered to retrain those affected I believe.Im afraid there are many industries which will be impacted by technology in the next few years.

My battery business supplies cells to Ocado to run their robots in their warehouses.I don’t see strikes there.

Surely it’s best to embrace technology and retrain with your employer?

Aslef settles their dispute with Southern last November-much to the ire of the RMT.

Only because the rep, one Mick Whelan had signed an agreement on 2011, without the knowledge of their members,that agreed to DOO.

Sitting in Costa across the way from the station-another Saturday,another futile strike day.One striker sitting in his car keeping warm-only his high vis jacket gives him away.

My train is still running though

It’s good to talk lads-get round a table and sort it out

Laffy wrote: You sound like Ned Ludd Barry-Northern have offered to retrain those affected I believe.Im afraid there are many industries which will be impacted by technology in the next few years.

My battery business supplies cells to Ocado to run their robots in their warehouses.I don’t see strikes there.

Surely it’s best to embrace technology and retrain with your employer?

Are warehouse workers generally well represented by unions ? Amazon ones certainly aren't, which probably explains the lack of strikes.

Surely the introduction of technology is usually so the employers can reduce their human workforce isn't it, I doubt there will be roles for all to retrain into.

I got the 13.46pm train from Carlisle-late by a couple of minutes but 4 carriages do we could have had a party.

There was one guy outside the station in a high viz jacket-he was standing about but then sat in his car.If this was a picket,I doubt anyone took a blind bit of notice.And that’s my point-we are getting used to the strike with very limited disruption as you plan around it.Result is a totally futile attempt at disruption and growing contempt for the actions of a union clinging onto old working practices.The fact is driver controlled trains have been around for 30 years in this country.

As for retraining,the franchisee has said many times that NO jobs will be lost and pay is guaranteed for the length of the franchise.What other industry can you get that guarantee in this day and age?

Laffy wrote: I got the 13.46pm train from Carlisle-late by a couple of minutes but 4 carriages do we could have had a party.

There was one guy outside the station in a high viz jacket-he was standing about but then sat in his car.If this was a picket,I doubt anyone took a blind bit of notice.And that’s my point-we are getting used to the strike with very limited disruption as you plan around it.Result is a totally futile attempt at disruption and growing contempt for the actions of a union clinging onto old working practices.The fact is driver controlled trains have been around for 30 years in this country.

As for retraining,the franchisee has said many times that NO jobs will be lost and pay is guaranteed for the length of the franchise.What other industry can you get that guarantee in this day and age?

Well the action might not be having the desired result up there but I can assure you down here in the real world it certainly is mind you most of its due to the idiotic way Northern have planned the reduced service it seems as if they're helping the RMT to have the most effect They must have lost an absolute fortune today when 8k Leeds fans travelled to Blackburn How many of them would have travelled by train at 25 quid a pop 80 mins direct service 25 quid a pop lets say 2k Thats 50k quid Northern have thrown away today so you really do have to accept that this is a politically driven dispute otherwise Nothern would of cancelled a couple of services elsewhere and run the York Blackpool line to its normal timetable today.

Was I inconvenienced today yes doubled the length of my journeys but I put that down to Northerns incompetence to run trains on lines that matter and buses on those that don't

Why do they knock off at noon?

Laffy wrote: Why do they knock off at noon?

Chelsea v Man Utd ?

That would be the bus co ordinator.

As said many times before, the dispute isn’t about jobs or money, it’s about safety.
Wait til Northern finally approach ASLEF........

We shall see-best to sort it out by talking before the new rolling stock arrives

The new rolling stock will be in service in a few months. No communication from Northern that they need to discuss changing drivers’ T&C’s.
Still asking Failing about changing the terms of the franchise.

Laffy wrote: We shall see-best to sort it out by talking before the new rolling stock arrives

The new rolling stock is already here or at least the start of it is currently undergoing mileage accumulation testing with loads more units at the aluminium plant of Anglesey waiting to start theirs once the test unit meets its enhanced targets.

The problem for Northern is that the route the first of those Hybrid units is likely to go into service on is Blackpool to York on which no way can they operate it without a conventional guard but we.ll soon know because at a couple of stations on the Lancs/Yorks border theres currently a lot of work going on to extend platforms etc so it won't take long for those in the know to spot I theres any extra eqpt installed that looks as if its there to facilitate DOO but if its as is thought they.ll have to introduce those units on a route that is probably a long way off being ready for DOO and thereby losing what Andrew sees as the opportunity to use the introduction of the new units as a watershed.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Laffy wrote: We shall see-best to sort it out by talking before the new rolling stock arrives

The new rolling stock is already here or at least the start of it is currently undergoing mileage accumulation testing with loads more units at the aluminium plant of Anglesey waiting to start theirs once the test unit meets its enhanced targets.

The problem for Northern is that the route the first of those Hybrid units is likely to go into service on is Blackpool to York on which no way can they operate it without a conventional guard but we.ll soon know because at a couple of stations on the Lancs/Yorks border theres currently a lot of work going on to extend platforms etc so it won't take long for those in the know to spot I theres any extra eqpt installed that looks as if its there to facilitate DOO but if its as is thought they.ll have to introduce those units on a route that is probably a long way off being ready for DOO and thereby losing what Andrew sees as the opportunity to use the introduction of the new units as a watershed.

No platform equipment is required, the bodyside CCTV is used, and drivers are expected to view all the doors on the screen the size of an iPad, divided into however many doors there are. Low light, snow, fog, uncleaned lens, sun glare have all been reported, but as on Peter ‘get the hell out of my industry’ Wilkinson doesn’t care about passengers safety, only ££££, l’m glad you feel like you would know what to do on a train full of drunken louts, an accident when the driver is incapacitated, or getting trapped in the doors. Guards Zee and McGhee from Liverpool will gladly disagree.

Rule 55, Bobby.

Laffy wrote: I got the 13.46pm train from Carlisle-late by a couple of minutes but 4 carriages do we could have had a party.

There was one guy outside the station in a high viz jacket-he was standing about but then sat in his car.If this was a picket,I doubt anyone took a blind bit of notice.And that’s my point-we are getting used to the strike with very limited disruption as you plan around it.Result is a totally futile attempt at disruption and growing contempt for the actions of a union clinging onto old working practices.The fact is driver controlled trains have been around for 30 years in this country.

As for retraining,the franchisee has said many times that NO jobs will be lost and pay is guaranteed for the length of the franchise.What other industry can you get that guarantee in this day and age?

I would be extremely worried if the driver wasn't in control of the train.

CCU wrote:

Laffy wrote: Why do they knock off at noon?

They don’t ‘knock off’, they observe the rules regarding Picketing which were updated in late 2016 I think it was?

Strict rules on times, number and methods allowed. I think at Carlisle it can be from 0600-1200, limited in number from a safety point of view and there’s a ‘Picket Supervisor’ who is identifiable and responsible for ensuring any protest is ‘peaceful, does not cause obstruction and is safe and in line with the Picket code’. Hence why there’s usually a small number with some flags and leaflets, going about business in a respectful way given the Station is still open for everyday business. Gone are the days of a baying mob around an upturned oil drum with flames coming out!

As for rolling stock, the only difference you’ll see on the Tyne Valley Line is the dreadful Pacers eventually going. Refurbished 156’s all the way unless by some miracle a few 158’s appear!

C'mon now brothers, this is not on !!

What if one of those poor hard-working men needed to go pee-pee, where are the facilities between 0600 and 01200 ? You know, on a building site, or long distance marathon you need potties everywhere, c'mon this is about safety. it's not safe to go round in wet shreddies smelling of pee-pee, is it ?

What about Counselling for if any of those, (what are they called again) Oh, yes passengers lets rip with a few home truths, it could well cause long-term psychological damage to our members or PTSD, and what if anyone swears, that's against rules and is naughty. Is their a counselor or cleric or priest nearby ?

What if it rains and it gets on someone's chest ? What safety clothing is provided, and does it meet up to BS EN specification, has anyone done a risk assessment on the site and is there any chuddy that could stick on your shoes ?

What about those banners, are they made from fire retardant material ? Oh, god what if there is a fire, is anyone trained ? What if anyone is injured, who's the first aider ?

This all looks a bit dodgy to me Brothers, I think you should consult the Union to see if this meets our rules, I mean anything could happen.

In the meantime, if we can ask the driver to open the door, we can all wait in the car.

High Street wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Laffy wrote: We shall see-best to sort it out by talking before the new rolling stock arrives

The new rolling stock is already here or at least the start of it is currently undergoing mileage accumulation testing with loads more units at the aluminium plant of Anglesey waiting to start theirs once the test unit meets its enhanced targets.

The problem for Northern is that the route the first of those Hybrid units is likely to go into service on is Blackpool to York on which no way can they operate it without a conventional guard but we.ll soon know because at a couple of stations on the Lancs/Yorks border theres currently a lot of work going on to extend platforms etc so it won't take long for those in the know to spot I theres any extra eqpt installed that looks as if its there to facilitate DOO but if its as is thought they.ll have to introduce those units on a route that is probably a long way off being ready for DOO and thereby losing what Andrew sees as the opportunity to use the introduction of the new units as a watershed.

No platform equipment is required, the bodyside CCTV is used, and drivers are expected to view all the doors on the screen the size of an iPad, divided into however many doors there are. Low light, snow, fog, uncleaned lens, sun glare have all been reported, but as on Peter ‘get the hell out of my industry’ Wilkinson doesn’t care about passengers safety, only ££££, l’m glad you feel like you would know what to do on a train full of drunken louts, an accident when the driver is incapacitated, or getting trapped in the doors. Guards Zee and McGhee from Liverpool will gladly disagree.

Rule 55, Bobby.

But thats the whole point platform eqpt is required and is at the minute now being demanded on lines down South that have had various versions of DOO for years for exactly the reasons you mention or can you explain how the driver is supposed to see the back of the train when its positioned on a curved platform particularly where the new trains are only just going to fit into the platforms anyway. At the minute at Accy on the Todmorden Curve services we are getting a lot of trains made up of 1 x 2 car 150 and 1 x 2 car 142 pacer and I can tell you not only does it take the guard and the driver but also a member of platform staff to dispatch the train safely and when there is no staff on duty drivers pull the train in 15 to 20 yds further along the platform than they should on the theory that its better to lose the use of the front set of doors than it is to depart without being able to see the back of the train because of the bend going onto the viaduct.

So at the minute, I can see here being stikes on every company that wants to have DOO without platform eqpt and who the hell is going to pay for that ?

Theres nil chance of those new hybrid units going into use on the York Blackpool route[ which is the route they're currently throwing money at to make it happen with the platform extensions etc in the Calder Valley etc and without this issue an absolutely ideal route to show off the hybrid train with an electric section at either end and a diesel bit in the middle ]before anywhere else without proper guards on board

There are no guards on the Tube or the DLR-why do Northern trains need them?

Laffy wrote: There are no guards on the Tube or the DLR-why do Northern trains need them?

Because those systems were designed and built to operate without them The Cumbrian Coast line or indeed 95% of Northerns other lines weren't.

But the new range of trains are-that’s the point.I wonder whether they had the same arguments when they invented the wheel?

The technology is here and now to allow a guard to see the entire platform and train.They just need to spend the money to deploy it

This line should never have been closed down.

Alan wrote: This line should never have been closed down.

It was the line featured on the abandoned lines programme on Channel five a week gone Friday which put paid to the story that it would be dead easy to reopen.

But the rebuilding/reopening of the Borders line proves that it can be done and can be a success and i.d say of all the possible lines listed for reopening this one must have just about the strongest business case due to the tourism potential.

All new trains have bodyside CCTV, relaying to a tiny screen in the cab. There is no need for any platform equipment for DOO. That’s the whole point of it.
The cameras have no field of vision so cannot see anybody running and falling down the gap, unless they do it at the doors. Meanwhile, the driver has to drive the train, how he’s supposed to do this whilst checking the CCTV upto 4mph is anybody’s guess. Still, it’s not Grayling that’s going to end up in court,like those two Merseyrail guards. Even in the RAIB report above, it mentions the drivers’ workload was too much for one person.

Laffy wrote: But the new range of trains are-that’s the point.I wonder whether they had the same arguments when they invented the wheel?

The technology is here and now to allow a guard to see the entire platform and train.They just need to spend the money to deploy it

It's just Health and Safety gone mad isn't it.

Oh wait, it's not, it's realistic concern for the safety of the travelling public. Bugger.

Well the Rail Standards Board signed DOO off so who do you believe-militant RMT or a government body formed after the Hatfield disaster I think.

South West at it today-more misery

Laffy wrote: Well the Rail Standards Board signed DOO off so who do you believe-militant RMT or a government body formed after the Hatfield disaster I think.

South West at it today-more misery

On this thread I tend to believe what High Street and CCU say.

DeckchairBlue wrote:

Laffy wrote: But the new range of trains are-that’s the point.I wonder whether they had the same arguments when they invented the wheel?

The technology is here and now to allow a guard to see the entire platform and train.They just need to spend the money to deploy it

It's just Health and Safety gone mad isn't it.

Oh wait, it's not, it's realistic concern for the safety of the travelling public. Bugger.

Lets kill the myth this has anything to do with safety, the safest, fastest trains in the World are driver only. It's all about power, not jobs as no jobs are affected other than changing the role from safety critical to train supervisor.

The railways need to update and bring in new technology and ways of operating to improve efficiency, ASLEF and the RMT are stuck in the past - Institutionalised Bully Boys with an agenda, the worst case scenario.

I’m with you.Bob Crow was a brilliant Union man who did what he was supposed to do-look after his members.He got respect for doing it in the face of all manner of situations,including ignoring common sense.But he did look after his members.

This isn’t about safety-it’s about protecting jobs,a case strengthened by the poor infrastructure.Neither side looks smart

I think the same risk applies when you are driving along the a69-without a guard.Or walking in the Quayside on a Friday night at midnight-probably more dangerous.

My farm runs down to the Tyne valley rail and there are no trees overhanging-the bigger risk is a land slip which happened a couple of years ago at Riding Mill

Let's invent risks, what happens if you stick your head out of the Window just as you pass under a bridge. What happens if someone drops a piano off a bridge, oh, and of course that damned lightening !!

Come on, be real, this is about the Republican Bully Boys and their own personal agenda.

"Can't see round corners on platforms" it's ridiculous some of the bxxsxit being spouted !! Drowning Man Syndrome I'm afraid.......

What are the RMT going to do when the leaders are so fat they cannot run, or fasten their collar properly, blame the Management for over-feeding the fat-lazy bully boys ?

Im still waiting for an answer to how is someone in a wheelchair going to get onto a train on their own? ...are they to come with their own ramp?

How can a person be punished on a train for not paying a fare when there is actually nowhere to pay... and that includes a machine bring fkd.And dont use a phone app as an alternative..not all use apps.

Virgin still has a conductor on all their trains that takes fares as and when as well as being informative...




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The answer is they have to book 24 hours in advance, not very PRM friendly. I believe various disabled groups are sitting quietly until 1st January 2020.
Perhaps if Laffy knows the existence of RSSB, you could spend a lot of time reading the rule book, which has been developed over many many years, and more the role of the guard in them, or just stick to telling us how rich he is.