What does a train guard / conductor do ?

Best get used to the bus then because this strike is going to run and run-until they being in new carriages which are more suitable to driver only.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Laffy wrote:

CCU wrote: If only the Northern bosses were prepared to talk properly...

RMT ✔ @RMTunion

RMT confirms action goes ahead on Northern Rail tomorrow in fight over guards and rail safety as company refuses se… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

24 Aug 2025 08:10

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Funnily enough that’s exactly what Northern are saying too!

They can say what they want its pretty common knowledge how the last set of talks went

Northern said yes we.re willing to discuss anything Nothing is off the table

RMT turn up and want to discuss Northern telling the government where to stick DOO.

Northern. We cant discuss that.

Not difficult to understand really is it.

But its definitely time the RMT stopped pissing about and started to hit Northern in the pockets with a bit of industrial terrorism Just imagine the shit you could cause if one morning Northern woke up to find out their cc payment system wouldn't work.

They've seriously inconvenienced me and my plans today but I know who i.m blaming and it's certainly not the RNT. I notice that today they're saying they can only run 30% of the normal service against the near 60% they were achieving when the strikes were on weekdays so it looks as if the replacement clerical staff they were using to staff the trains aren't as keen to work at the weekends when they can't be blackmailed into doing so as its not part of their normal working week.

Theres a simple answer to this take the franchise off Arriva run it as a directly operated franchise [ like East Coast ] then in effect hand the franchise to Rail North [ a consortium of local authorities basically ] then let them appoint an operator to run it for them as they're told to in return for a fixed fee [ basically the model adopted recently in Wales ] The original reason for ROSCOS and Franchises was to take the financial aspect away from the state but in the time since things have changed local authorities can now borrow money at almost nil cost so why are we getting ROSCO.s to buy the trains at inflated interest costs which they pass on to the franchises who then pass it on to the travelling public.

Same question as to the RMT paradox. Why do you want it to be nationalised if the dFt have shown themselves to be utterly complicent in the farce. Rail North are as toothless as an 89 year old crack addict hooker.

High Street wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Laffy wrote:

CCU wrote: If only the Northern bosses were prepared to talk properly...

RMT ✔ @RMTunion

RMT confirms action goes ahead on Northern Rail tomorrow in fight over guards and rail safety as company refuses se… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

24 Aug 2025 08:10

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Funnily enough that’s exactly what Northern are saying too!

They can say what they want its pretty common knowledge how the last set of talks went

Northern said yes we.re willing to discuss anything Nothing is off the table

RMT turn up and want to discuss Northern telling the government where to stick DOO.

Northern. We cant discuss that.

Not difficult to understand really is it.

But its definitely time the RMT stopped pissing about and started to hit Northern in the pockets with a bit of industrial terrorism Just imagine the shit you could cause if one morning Northern woke up to find out their cc payment system wouldn't work.

They've seriously inconvenienced me and my plans today but I know who i.m blaming and it's certainly not the RNT. I notice that today they're saying they can only run 30% of the normal service against the near 60% they were achieving when the strikes were on weekdays so it looks as if the replacement clerical staff they were using to staff the trains aren't as keen to work at the weekends when they can't be blackmailed into doing so as its not part of their normal working week.

Theres a simple answer to this take the franchise off Arriva run it as a directly operated franchise [ like East Coast ] then in effect hand the franchise to Rail North [ a consortium of local authorities basically ] then let them appoint an operator to run it for them as they're told to in return for a fixed fee [ basically the model adopted recently in Wales ] The original reason for ROSCOS and Franchises was to take the financial aspect away from the state but in the time since things have changed local authorities can now borrow money at almost nil cost so why are we getting ROSCO.s to buy the trains at inflated interest costs which they pass on to the franchises who then pass it on to the travelling public.

Same question as to the RMT paradox. Why do you want it to be nationalised if the dFt have shown themselves to be utterly complicent in the farce. Rail North are as toothless as an 89 year old crack addict hooker.

But they wouldn't be if the same powers were devolved to them as they have been to Wales and Scotland thats the point

All it needs central government to do is write the cheque at the same level per head of population that London gets and then keep their Tory noses out their involvement is neither needed or indeed wanted

I’m not sure where the obsession with nationalising things comes from.Im old enough to remember what a bloody shambles it was-shoe leather allowance being a payment to compensate the driver for wearing his shoes down on that hike along the platform.Then we had firemen kept on trains for diesel trains.

Change is coming and I doubt we will have conductors and guards on any train soon.The RMT should be working with the various franchises to retrain their brothers so they have a job

Because that's the standard Tory response, it didn't work in the past so it won't be tried ever again, rather than using the past as a lesson to improve things in the future

Look across Europe, there are plenty of examples of well run and operated nationalised rail services, and funnily enough they also don't charge their customers the earth to use them.

Laffy wrote: I’m not sure where the obsession with nationalising things comes from.Im old enough to remember what a bloody shambles it was-shoe leather allowance being a payment to compensate the driver for wearing his shoes down on that hike along the platform.Then we had firemen kept on trains for diesel trains.

Change is coming and I doubt we will have conductors and guards on any train soon.The RMT should be working with the various franchises to retrain their brothers so they have a job

Have you been on the beer Andrew nowhere do I see the RMT asking for a shoe leather allowance of anything like it or even why you think its worth the RMT even speaking to the franchises when all they're doing is being used as stooges to carry out the Tory Boy mantra as Northerns refusal to talk about it clearly demonstrates.

Methinks you're going to be a very disappointed man when Mother Terressa and her stooges are well and truly chased from power in the next couple of years just how many people who've suffered 10 years of Austerity and pay freezes do they think are going to vote for them ever again.

We've had 20 years of Tory privatisation on the railways which has been a complete and utter failure from whichever way you look at it.

So it's beyond time for a new way of doing things but i.m not sure how you work out that handing over control to Rail North is in any way any sort of Nationalisation when in fact its exactly the opposite in that national government would have a lot less say rather than a lot more if it was renationalised or even than they do now.

No beer-just pissed off the trains aren’t working again.Surely both sides can talk to each other?

I think there are some services which should be excluded from political leanings-rail,roads,NHS, infrastructure.That doesn’t mean privatisation or nationalisation-just exclude key sectors from politics and hand it over to experts to implement and manage.

Do they need train conductors between Preston and Carlisle bank holiday weekends? Because I don't think any trains run on those weekends when you would think most people want to travel. Seems they need more bus drivers for the trains those weekends. Railways and price of travel on them in the UK are a disgrace. Time they were renationalised.

Laffy wrote: No beer-just pissed off the trains aren’t working again.Surely both sides can talk to each other?

I think there are some services which should be excluded from political leanings-rail,roads,NHS, infrastructure.That doesn’t mean privatisation or nationalisation-just exclude key sectors from politics and hand it over to experts to implement and manage.

Well, all Northern have to do is to keep to their word that everything is up for discussion and then Tell Grayling where to stuff his underhand union-busting agenda that hes blackmailing the train companies with and then they can all get back to providing a better service.

But I agree with you removing things like the railways and NHS from political interference could only be a good move.

But if you're planning to travel anywhere on the next five Saturdays i.d be making other arrangements because today Northern have only been able to provide 30% of a normal service [ as opposed to the near 60% they were achieving on the weekday strike days ] and it will get worse because a lot of the clerical staff they've been using to strike break have had enough and want to get back to doing their own jobs that they were employed to do and are refusing to work on the Saturdays because its outside their contracted hours thats why the union are now concentrating on them [ plus doing it that way they're not pissing the commuters off who it did seem were starting to turn against the strikers ]

Oh and don't count on travelling on Sundays either as more and more drivers are making themselves unavailable to work on them and Northern have already announced a raft of cancellations for tomorrow.

The strikes have little to nothing do with Guards (bring back guards vans !!)

It's all about skiving off, fear not, the strike days will be fewer as the temperature drops.

They only work three days a week, with a summer average of two and a winter average of eight.

Watch as the rosters suddenly get filled, the carriage heating go's up, and the toilet is never vacant..........

Just a bunch of lazy, militant, republican bully boys......

CCU wrote: The Greater Anglia franchise last month followed both Scotrail and Wales & Borders franchises in agreeing to guarantee a Guard on board services, following sensible discussions between both the Franchisee and the Union.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-suffolk-44888443

Arriva Northern should take note what can be done with meaningful talks...

But unfortunately, none of those 3 was amongst the franchises offered the full subsidy in exchange for introducing DOO and therefore doing the Tory governments dirty work in taking the unions on.

I still don't get why the RMT don't just picket the depots in the early hours 90% of the drivers wouldn't cross the picket lines and youd have a much more effective strike but I still say Northern will start to listen when you hit them in a way that they cant recover their losses ie refunds of track access charges etc or somebody takes them to court and forces them to run a bus to cover every single timetabled train that they cancel [ ie they can't just say the service stops at 7 pm on strike days as they are doing now ]

But the thing i.d really like to know is on which lines Northern think they could run DOO what are they going to do when hundreds of people a day start ringing up and booking assistance to board guardless trains from unmanned stations in the Cumbrian wilderness the disabled people of this country could bin this ridiculous idea tomorrow if they wanted to and when they wake up to whats going on i.m pretty sure they will do.

If you’d read this thread, you will know that guards HAVE to be on all of the trains in Cumbria, due to absolute block signalling. They currently don’t even have trains capable of working DOO. It was redacted in the franchise agreement where and when this will be introduced,you only need to see where is getting new trains to work this out- likely to be the commuter routes in and out of Manchester and Leeds.
The disabled lobby are well aware and 1/1/2026 when all trains have to comply to PRM regulations will be interesting.

High Street wrote: If you’d read this thread, you will know that guards HAVE to be on all of the trains in Cumbria, due to absolute block signalling. They currently don’t even have trains capable of working DOO. It was redacted in the franchise agreement where and when this will be introduced,you only need to see where is getting new trains to work this out- likely to be the commuter routes in and out of Manchester and Leeds.
The disabled lobby are well aware and 1/1/2026 when all trains have to comply to PRM regulations will be interesting.

But at least half of the new trains that are on their way aren't intended for the commuter routes tho are they ? In fact, I'm pretty sure the Leeds commuter routes aren't getting any new trains what so ever but are getting a lot of cascaded stock.

They are the mainstay of the Northern Connect project and they will run in Cumbria as well as throughout the more wilder and remote parts of Lancashire and Yorkshire so what are they going to do stuff all the stations along those lines 18 hours a day or create flying squads of men and vehicles to shoot all over the place ensuring that disabled access is maintained and as you say in 2020 extended and i believe Northern know full well that this is something that simply isn't going to work and the only reason they're persisting with this farce is because they're doing so to protect the financial windfall that they were given in the form of the subsidy level remaining at previous levels unlike in other franchise areas where its been severely reduced.

Otherwise how do you explain the same parent company Arriva being quite willing to retain guards in Wales [ they weren't offered the subsidy deal there were they ] as it turned out they lost in the bidding but the Welsh Transport minister stated that all 3 bidders in the process had the same stance on guards so from that as the winners have done the deal on guards then you have to take it that Arriva would have to.

And if you.ve ever travelled into Manchester in a morning youd know that without a guard the trains would never move if he wasn't there ramming the commuters into the cattle trucks in order for the doors to function and believe me there are stations as little as 5 miles from Central Manchester that are completely unmanned and even the Metrolink have guys on board their trams in the peak simply to keep then running in case of overcrowding issues.

Cumbria’s Northern Connect services are refurbished 158’s,not the new stuff. Being able to work in DOO, doesn’t mean is has to, indeed l think the spec for all new trains mean they have to be able to work in both DOO and crew control.

High Street wrote: Cumbria’s Northern Connect services are refurbished 158’s,not the new stuff. Being able to work in DOO, doesn’t mean is has to, indeed l think the spec for all new trains mean they have to be able to work in both DOO and crew control.

Youre right the new ones are dual control

Just imagine the shit theyd be in right now with their arrival imminent and no way of introducing them.

Are you certain that the Carlise to Newcastle line isn't getting them now as i.m pretty sure the North East MP.s kicked off that their region wasn't getting a single new train and some changes were made to the plans and I know they're having a rethink on our line re the York to Blackpool service that.ll see it not need as many of them as was originally planned.

It's all a fudge, it's about control.

If DO, driver turns up, the train runs. With a Guard allocation, and he/she doesn't turn in, or his/her Union calls a strike action (which is quite likely as most guards are in the RMT) the train cannot run.

This is all about ASLEF v RMT......

So everyone gets on the train for nowt then on the West Cumbrian line?? That sounds like a fuckwit idea..

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markredfox73 wrote: So everyone gets on the train for nowt then on the West Cumbrian line?? That sounds like a fuckwit idea..

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As High Street has said its physically impossible to operate DOO trains on the vast majority of the Northern network which makes you ask if thats the case why don't they just back down as its not really worth all the grief just for a couple of commuter lines into Manchester which takes us back the couple of hundred million in subsidies they were given to wage war on the RMT union.

And it's looking to me that if the RMT keep striking on Saturdays and the percentage of services Northern are able to run drops below 20% the Torys will have no option but to bring it to an end by tearing up their underhand agreement with the train operating company and its pretty clear the RMT fully well know this hence their persuasion of the clerical staff that Northern are using as guards on strike days not to do it on Saturdays when the company cant force them to.

Nice article on Accrington in the Telegraph today Barry-worth a read if you can deal with the right wing press

Back to the thread title

Anybody see the first episode last night of The Bodyguard.....now that showed a possible scenario that a guard has to deal with ......and also reinforced why a guard/conductor is very necessary.

For those who didn't see it......Muslim extremist had his wife wearing a suicide belt hiding in a toilet on board a mainline train,ready to detonate it. Suspicious off duty Government protection officer and guard work together to ha, diffuse the situation!
Part 2 tonight BBC 1 9 o'clock

In reality the guard would have told the Bodyguard to [censored] off as its not in my contract

seesaw50 wrote: Back to the thread title

Anybody see the first episode last night of The Bodyguard.....now that showed a possible scenario that a guard has to deal with ......and also reinforced why a guard/conductor is very necessary.

For those who didn't see it......Muslim extremist had his wife wearing a suicide belt hiding in a toilet on board a mainline train,ready to detonate it. Suspicious off duty Government protection officer and guard work together to ha, diffuse the situation!
Part 2 tonight BBC 1 9 o'clock

Must have been crowded in that toilet...........

The Guard would very quickly realise she was a suicide bomber when she sat on him.........

Laffy wrote: Nice article on Accrington in the Telegraph today Barry-worth a read if you can deal with the right wing press

Yes I read it this morning I don't have to actually read the paper's site as I get it mailed to me by one of the Accy lads each Monday

Mind you it could be interesting if next weeks piece is all about his Jolly Boys day out to Blackpool on Saturday particularly if he includes the deleted tweets and the pic wearing the Oyston out scarf.

Has Oyston not gone yet?

thesilentone wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: Back to the thread title

Anybody see the first episode last night of The Bodyguard.....now that showed a possible scenario that a guard has to deal with ......and also reinforced why a guard/conductor is very necessary.

For those who didn't see it......Muslim extremist had his wife wearing a suicide belt hiding in a toilet on board a mainline train,ready to detonate it. Suspicious off duty Government protection officer and guard work together to ha, diffuse the situation!
Part 2 tonight BBC 1 9 o'clock

Must have been crowded in that toilet...........

The Guard would very quickly realise she was a suicide bomber when she sat on him.........

He was a she....female guard

Dancingbear wrote: Has Oyston not gone yet?

Won't be going anywhere in the next month now as Belokon will want him in the spotlight while he dismantles his empire details of the first of the auctions should be announced this week .

Be interesting to see if they manage to pay the wages at the end of the month because if they do someone has put some money in to enable them to do that smart money is on a right shark called Jonathon Disley whos sucking up to Owen but who has apparently been corresponding with Latvia at the same time be very interesting if he tries to pass the FPPT he was bankrupt 3 years ago and is now claiming he has hundreds of millions to loan to businesses who need quick cash no questions asked at massive rates of interest of course.

I.ve forwarded his website to Jenkins but looks like I was wasting my time as it turns out he already has links to the Holdsworths i.ll post the link on here when I remember what I did with it.

But it looks as if even he and is dodgy and criminal contacts can't find the cash to bail Owen out. And his only hope now is an Asian company V Sports who are interested in buying but who want to pay in Bitcoin you really couldn't make it up

Wonder if he.s somebody Laffys come across ?

Think you need to read the small print which says that the Agreement will require productivity improvements and of course soaking the passengers who will have to pay for the extra labour costs via fare increases.

Everybody out-again!

Good old Militant is still alive and kicking in Scouseland.

Some of the housing in Liverpool makes Raffles, Harraby and Botch look like Mayfair !!

But the good old brothers and sisters are paying up to 30% more Council tax than Carlisle.

For the people !! my arxx.

But fear not, the future is two timetables the normal and the strike timetable.

Unity means bigger bills !!

Basically nothing at all to do with safety.If it was, they would be striking about overcrowding and poor rolling stock.

More staff of course, largely not needed with new technology,but more cost, lower productivity and higher fares to pay for it.

No toilets-what century is this?

MerseysideBlue wrote:

Laffy wrote: No toilets-what century is this?

It's a high-frequency metro network effectively - most of the stations have toilets.

The new trains are actually designed specifically for the network, owned by the local authority rather than leased from a ROSCO (more cost effective) and will be the most accessible in the UK thanks to the sliding step. All done by a Labour-run transport authority...

The most similar network is the London Underground and to date on there I don't believe i.ve ever seen a toilet on any of their trains

CCU wrote: Unity is Strength:

Liverpool Echo ✔ @LivEchonews

BREAKING: Merseyrail abandons 'driver only' trains plan bringing end to long-running bitter dispute with guards liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/…

31 Aug 2025 16:38

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Just shows how when a company is unrestrained by government financial shackles and interference how easy it is to do a deal with the RMT

If you read it they've not even insisted on them being called guards or on them being the ones to open and close the doors all they've asked for is that a train isn't allowed to move without a critical safety trained operative on board. Which despite what the resident Tory boys will tell you is what the whole dispute was about in the first place.

All we need now is for Nothern to come and join the rest of us in the real world admit that trains without guards on their network was a fantasy dreamt up by someone at Tory party HQ tell them where to get stuffed and tell CAF to get the train controls altered before we end of with a whole fleet of trains that.ll never go anywhere because they forgot to include the guard's door controls on them.

Too tired

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

CCU wrote: Unity is Strength:

Liverpool Echo ✔ @LivEchonews

BREAKING: Merseyrail abandons 'driver only' trains plan bringing end to long-running bitter dispute with guards liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/…

31 Aug 2025 16:38

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Just shows how when a company is unrestrained by government financial shackles and interference how easy it is to do a deal with the RMT

If you read it they've not even insisted on them being called guards or on them being the ones to open and close the doors all they've asked for is that a train isn't allowed to move without a critical safety trained operative on board. Which despite what the resident Tory boys will tell you is what the whole dispute was about in the first place.

All we need now is for Nothern to come and join the rest of us in the real world admit that trains without guards on their network was a fantasy dreamt up by someone at Tory party HQ tell them where to get stuffed and tell CAF to get the train controls altered before we end of with a whole fleet of trains that.ll never go anywhere because they forgot to include the guard's door controls on them.

As you think the local authority are such stars in your eyes, why did it take 18 months and 16 strike days to sort it ?

thesilentone wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

CCU wrote: Unity is Strength:

Liverpool Echo ✔ @LivEchonews

BREAKING: Merseyrail abandons 'driver only' trains plan bringing end to long-running bitter dispute with guards liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/…

31 Aug 2025 16:38

303 Retweets 1397 favorites

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• Retweet
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Just shows how when a company is unrestrained by government financial shackles and interference how easy it is to do a deal with the RMT

If you read it they've not even insisted on them being called guards or on them being the ones to open and close the doors all they've asked for is that a train isn't allowed to move without a critical safety trained operative on board. Which despite what the resident Tory boys will tell you is what the whole dispute was about in the first place.

All we need now is for Nothern to come and join the rest of us in the real world admit that trains without guards on their network was a fantasy dreamt up by someone at Tory party HQ tell them where to get stuffed and tell CAF to get the train controls altered before we end of with a whole fleet of trains that.ll never go anywhere because they forgot to include the guard's door controls on them.

As you think the local authority are such stars in your eyes, why did it take 18 months and 16 strike days to sort it ?

If you actually read up on it or knew anything about it youd know that it had nothing to do with Liverpool or any other council for that matter.

And it took a while because organisations like these of whatever political persuasion are coming under extreme pressure and threats from the Torys to push their anti-union dogma, agenda and policies that they haven't got the balls to push thru themselves and are using threats of reduced budgets or subsidies to get other people to do their dirty work for them.

But in the end, the good people of Merseyrail and Merseytravel put the safety of the Merseyside public before a few threats from a complete and utter arsehole like Grayling and the money issues they are quoting are much more to do with the financial penalties they will receive from the Tory Government as a result of them agreeing to this deal that benefits everybody on Merseyside rather than the cost of keeping a second safety critical member of staff on the train as they had already stated that any former guards had a jo for life at their present salary bands.

Just wondering when was the last time a Tory minister travelled on the Merseyrail system on their own late at night and would have been glad of the SSCMS assistance when confronted by a group of the local Militant branch? The answer to that question tells you why the Tory Government don't give a shit for the safety of you, me or anyone else on Merseyrail Northern or indeed any other rail franchise and are way more concerned with their union busting and Austerity policies. Scum of the earth who the good people who care about the well being of this country and its people should be driving into the sea once and for all.

New report comes out saying this summers trains fiasco was in no small part due to buck passing. Chris Grayling comes on the news saying what else could I do when the train companies said they were ready. I think that’s what buck passing is isn’t it Chris?

What it does say,is that pretty much everyone knew the problems, but nobody had the balls to say anything,until it was too late.

This striking lark is now taking the [censored] piss on weekends...its time to sort stuff out.

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What else can they do when the employer won’t listen Mark?

action.greenparty.org.uk/sackgrayling

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CCU wrote:

markredfox73 wrote: This striking lark is now taking the [censored] piss on weekends...its time to sort stuff out.

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Maybe it would if Arriva were serious. Sadly it appears they’re not...

Don't think its Arriva who aren't listening

They took a 150 million boost to the subsidies in exchange for taking the unions on

Now they're in an all-round no-win situation they can't afford to write off the 150m, the union clearly aren't going to back down, and the government are showing no signs of bailing them out. I suspect this will come to a head when either Network Rail get fed up of subsidising Northern by losing the TAC.s etc etc or an MP develops the balls to step up and start asking questions about the level of service/replacement bus services that Northern are or rather arent providing on strike days.

Dancingbear wrote: What else can they do when the employer won’t listen Mark?

Maybe Britain should go on-strike to make the EU agree with our terms, what do you think DB, are you not feeling a bit downtrodden ?