What does a train guard / conductor do ?

With the new timetable management have not been able to get enough drivers trained up never mind helpers for the disabled.
This is a [censored] up by management not the unions and I can't see it being any different for getting help at unmanned stations..

Never mind a train guard What do you do Silentone
If you job description includes Bell End then you seem perfectly qualified for the role

Flatcap wrote: With the new timetable management have not been able to get enough drivers trained up never mind helpers for the disabled.
This is a [censored] up by management not the unions and I can't see it being any different for getting help at unmanned stations..

When you are as tightly Unionized as the Railway Drivers with low working hours, lots of holidays and plenty of free days off (striking) service suffers, as we are now experiencing. In addition, the RMT has made the Drivers rolls a closed shop to ensure you do as you are told.

Is your RMT bully boy attitude coming out to play Lancs blue ??

thesilentone wrote:

Flatcap wrote: With the new timetable management have not been able to get enough drivers trained up never mind helpers for the disabled.
This is a [censored] up by management not the unions and I can't see it being any different for getting help at unmanned stations..

When you are as tightly Unionized as the Railway Drivers with low working hours, lots of holidays and plenty of free days off (striking) service suffers, as we are now experiencing. In addition, the RMT has made the Drivers rolls a closed shop to ensure you do as you are told.

Is your RMT bully boy attitude coming out to play Lancs blue ??

[censored] hell their collective bargaining agreements havent got them beaucoup sarnies as well have they? Think ill have to change union.

As usual it’s the passengers who pay the price.Still, if Northern lose the franchise,all those strikers will be applying for new jobs but of course it’s ‘safety’ that’s the issue.

I wonder what other profession with similar working conditions redundant train guards can fulfill?

Be careful what you wish for guys.

So silentstone if I am wheelchair bound and I need help at Dalston or wigton and there is no guard who is going to help me off the train

Bluefox1963 wrote: So silentstone if I am wheelchair bound and I need help at Dalston or wigton and there is no guard who is going to help me off the train

Definitely not a venture capitalist

So are we suggesting that every train has a guard to assist wheelchairs?-if there is no one on a train who can or is willing to assist,then my faith in mankind has diminished again.

The RMT is well skilled in holding operators to ransom-because they know trains need a skilled driver.They don’t need conductors and firemen because technology exists to replace.

I wonder if they would go on strike at say Wagamama’s because the plates are too hot.Of course not because it’s not a key infrastructure service and there are plenty of others prepared and skilled to do the job.

As I say,it’s the passengers who suffer-in any other industry, you would just use another supplier but this of course is there strength-there is no alternative mode of travel for many

thesilentone wrote:

Bluefox1963 wrote: Not at an unmanned station you can't dick head

As you obviously suffer from limited vocabulary I have copied the pertinent statement, put it in bold and if you don't or can't understand ask your Mam, Dad or carer......

You can book to get help at any station for any train journey.

Well you're so [censored] clever or at least you think you are Twatface that you've clearly not bothered to read the thousands of reports from disabled people that have informed passenger focus that what actually happened when they did just that bore no resemblance to the service they claim to provide and in any case its higly likeley that what you describle won't actually meet the disability discrimination regulations that come in in 2020 which basically means you have to make it pssible for a disabled person to able to do what an able bodied person can without any specific assistance.

Never mind providing the service at unmanned stations in the middle of nowhere they just send a disability taxi now instead to pick them up and take them to wherever they want to go on for an onward journey to the nearest main station but problem is they now running late and missed their connection and the taxi trick has to be repeated numerous times over the journey and guess what who do you think is paying for this ?


I think today was the day the RMT won. The BBC were running around trying to find people who disagreed with the union and Guess what they couldn't find a single one.

Arriva Northern are finished they won't recover from this fiasco and I can't see any other company being will willing to come in without massive subsidies so whether Mother Teresa likes it or not we're heading DOR mk2 and the sooner the better

Laffy wrote: So are we suggesting that every train has a guard to assist wheelchairs?-if there is no one on a train who can or is willing to assist,then my faith in mankind has diminished again.

The RMT is well skilled in holding operators to ransom-because they know trains need a skilled driver.They don’t need conductors and firemen because technology exists to replace.

I wonder if they would go on strike at say Wagamama’s because the plates are too hot.Of course not because it’s not a key infrastructure service and there are plenty of others prepared and skilled to do the job.

As I say,it’s the passengers who suffer-in any other industry, you would just use another supplier but this of course is there strength-there is no alternative mode of travel for many

Or maybe a lot of the passengers sympathise with the conductors and appreciate that if unscrupulous bosses were trying to put them on the dole then theyd like their union to support them in the same way as the RMT are their members.

Arrival Northern are taking the flack for Dft, Network Rail and ultimately, Grayling, so as long as they’re doing that, they’re far from finished.

High Street wrote: Arrival Northern are taking the flack for Dft, Network Rail and ultimately, Grayling, so as long as they’re doing that, they’re far from finished.

Clearly, you haven't been watching the feed from the PF meeting in Manchester today then

The bottom line is that not enough drivers are being trained up to cope with the new timetable.
The train operators did not prepare well enough. It costs money to train drivers and the train companies thought they could conjure them up on the cheap.

It's the same throughout industry these days. Instead of expensive training, companies bring skilled people in from abroad.
Years ago it was Britain who gave the rest of the world the skills they needed. Now it's the other way round.

I would say by this time next year unless Arriva back it up with money from Germany Northern will be financially insolvent if everybody whos bought a ticket puts a claim in and gets a free return ticket where is their income going to come from if everybody is riding around on free tickets for the next 12 months.

They've obviously given up on checking your claims now as i.ve given up putting in less than 30 min delays so everyone is now a free return ticket and i.d be pretty sure i.m not the only one whos sussed out that if you're on a normal open ticket when you get home that night you go on RTT and look up which trains were late and then hey ho thats the one you claim you were on and in goes another claim i.m told its also pretty common knowledge that you dont send in both halves together. To date, i.ve received 12 free return tickets i.ve got about another 40 claims in the system and about 1000 used tickets c/o the lads at Accy Station to go thru and match up with some late trains its a great scheme £7.50 for a return to Preston and with a bit of work you can turn that into two return tickets that could be worth up to £60 each i reckon e.bay will be inundated with them once its all sorted out.

Haven't had so much fun since we were printing off Persil vouchers in the Kendal Grammar School Art Room in the late 1970.s

Persil vouchers then Kellogg’s vouchers, had many a good away day on them in the early 80’s.

ASLEFs stated policy is no RDW, hence why there was no fuss from both sides when the existing agreement ran out.

CCU wrote:

Laffy wrote: Still, if Northern lose the franchise,all those strikers will be applying for new jobs but of course it’s ‘safety’ that’s the issue.

They simply get TUPE’d over to whoever would get the Franchise.

Lay them off and get them to reapply and there’s no trains running at all!

I once TUPE’d over from another company and they instantly have it in for you at management level and want you out, my manager at the time 'mistakenly' left open the private documents cabinet, the one where everyone had a file, warnings and all that sort of stuff but when the night staff realised I was open and had a good ratch they seen my fie and contract they were furious that I was on a fair bit more than them, then my wage slips kept going missing.

Word got around and the cheeky gets confronted me, loads of them saying that it is unfair that I get more than them, had to explain that they accepted the job on the terms that were offered to yourself and you accepted it so I kept the terms of my old contract and I would be a fool not to.

Tried to make it difficult but I ended up ended up lasting longer than they all did because I am a right stubborn get

When it happens at franchise change, the entire staff are TUPE’d.

High Street wrote: When it happens at franchise change, the entire staff are TUPE’d.

Think there is an option where you do not have to stay though and can go with maybe some redundancy, not sure because in reality very few of us stayed so thought that they those who left may have had an incentive to leave.

A horrible position to be in as I was there for years and had got numerous pay rises but the new company are notorious low payers in comparison to the former company.

Was funny one time as I had split loyalties and the new lot thought themselves far superior to my former colleagues and the new lot would laugh at the relaxed manner of my former colleagues and called them all the names and window lickers behind their backs, I had had enough of this one day and had to point out that that 'window licker' earns seven grand a year more than yourself and works far less hours and told the line manager who virtually lived there this old woman they were slagging off was on about the same money as yourself and we are all not a slave to the wage.

Don't help myself I know but they were wa nkers with me and tried to reduce my holidays that I had built up to their meagre insult that they gave the other lot.

So, the quick and easy solution to the problem is to get the drivers back to a normal 37.5 hours over 5 days working week, just like everyone else ?

You cannot have public services AND restrictive working practices, it is one or the other.

thesilentone wrote: So, the quick and easy solution to the problem is to get the drivers back to a normal 37.5 hours over 5 days working week, just like everyone else ?

You cannot have public services AND restrictive working practices, it is one or the other.

So the drivers working an extra 2.5 hours a week is going to solve the problem of a driver shortage.

Laffy wrote: So are we suggesting that every train has a guard to assist wheelchairs?-if there is no one on a train who can or is willing to assist,then my faith in mankind has diminished again.

The RMT is well skilled in holding operators to ransom-because they know trains need a skilled driver.They don’t need conductors and firemen because technology exists to replace.

I wonder if they would go on strike at say Wagamama’s because the plates are too hot.Of course not because it’s not a key infrastructure service and there are plenty of others prepared and skilled to do the job.

As I say,it’s the passengers who suffer-in any other industry, you would just use another supplier but this of course is there strength-there is no alternative mode of travel for many

If a customer requires assistance then the operator should make sure they are provided for, they shouldn't be able to rely in other customers providing this service just so that they can cut their own costs.

If plates were hot enough that they were causing repeated injuries to staff then this would be reported through the RIDDOR regs and if nothing was done about them then the HSE would investigate.

Personally I never used to be bothered about being a union member, but now that I work in an industry which has been bascially kept alive by them I now see how essential they are.

Just on Scotrail train-electric doors,driver,internet-no conductor/guard.

Modern coach meets technology-amazing.

The solution is to embrace technology-not build a wall and behave like Luddites.That of course means improving the infrastructure and rolling stock which is another issue-the Northern stock is shambolic

Great stuff.

"We apologise that there was nobody to help you board the train due to you requiring a wheelchair, and us getting rid of guards, I'm sure it will comfort you to know that had you been able to access the train you would have had full internet access".

I’m sure if l was a train driver trying to despatch a 12 car train with tiny pictures on a screen the size of an iPad, and someone bounced off the closing doors and got minced,l’d be in court. It has happened. I’d certainly prefer my train driver to be looking ahead and observing signals and level crossings, than peering at a tiny screen, especially at night.

CCU wrote:

Laffy wrote: Just on Scotrail train-electric doors,driver,internet-no conductor/guard.

Modern coach meets technology-amazing.

The solution is to embrace technology-not build a wall and behave like Luddites.That of course means improving the infrastructure and rolling stock which is another issue-the Northern stock is shambolic

That service won’t run without a Guard onboard...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-37560012

Lazy [censored] was probably kipping or watching the racing what with the superb WiFi options available.

Indeed-the new rule is the driver opens the doors but the guard closes them-must be too complicated to take both tasks on.

Anyway,no guard on the train tonight as far as I could see-must have been at the front with the driver using the same open and closing button,leaving all passengers including the infirm and disabled to fend for themselves.Pity.

Laffy wrote: Indeed-the new rule is the driver opens the doors but the guard closes them-must be too complicated to take both tasks on.

Anyway,no guard on the train tonight as far as I could see-must have been at the front with the driver using the same open and closing button,leaving all passengers including the infirm and disabled to fend for themselves.Pity.

Or the train driver knows when the best time to open the doors is,as he is in charge of the movement of the train and the guard knows when to close the doors as he can watch the passengers entering and than tell the driver all is ready to go. Health and Safety ensured and not compromised.

Laffy wrote: Indeed-the new rule is the driver opens the doors but the guard closes them-must be too complicated to take both tasks on.

Anyway,no guard on the train tonight as far as I could see-must have been at the front with the driver using the same open and closing button,leaving all passengers including the infirm and disabled to fend for themselves.Pity.

Maybe you should've sought them out and asked how complicated their job is, I'm sure they would've been happy to hear you belittling their intelligence and your opinion of why their roles are redundant.

Probably not so easy to do it to an actual person though is it.

DCB, please read again, the key is the first three words ' You can book ' , now I realize that you are one of those who will turn this into 'The poor disabled can't travel freely. and have to pre-book help blah, blah, blah, ' as that is the type of person you are.

But like it or not these are the facts: www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinat...bled_passengers.aspx

ANY Station - ANY Train.....

Quite happy to tell the strikers what I think of them mate-they are inconveniencing a huge number of people with their militancy and they would get my vote if they said ‘yes,let’s talk about how we resolve these issues’

As for guards,most modern train systems do not have guards or conductors-neither do buses whose drivers appear to manage open and closing doors without difficulty or assistance.

What is the difference between a bus or a train other than one has wheels?Thats right-bus drivers are easier to train so easier to replace so they don’t ordinarily strike.Same problem with air pilots-they strike because they know they can-likewise air traffic controllers.

thesilentone wrote: DCB, please read again, the key is the first three words ' You can book ' , now I realize that you are one of those who will turn this into 'The poor disabled can't travel freely. and have to pre-book help blah, blah, blah, ' as that is the type of person you are.

But like it or not these are the facts: www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinat...bled_passengers.aspx

ANY Station - ANY Train.....

I know not is horrendous that I have compassion isn't it.

Why should a disabled passenger have to book ? It means that any train travel they wish to take has to be planned in advance, which isn't always possible, and as we all know just because the train operators state that as a policy doesn't mean they will provide it as effectively as needed.

Why do you such a problem with train guards ?

Laffy wrote: Quite happy to tell the strikers what I think of them mate-they are inconveniencing a huge number of people with their militancy and they would get my vote if they said ‘yes,let’s talk about how we resolve these issues’

As for guards,most modern train systems do not have guards or conductors-neither do buses whose drivers appear to manage open and closing doors without difficulty or assistance.

What is the difference between a bus or a train other than one has wheels?Thats right-bus drivers are easier to train so easier to replace so they don’t ordinarily strike.Same problem with air pilots-they strike because they know they can-likewise air traffic controllers.

Your obviously a lot more comfortable putting people on the dole than some of us Laffy. I’d say a bus is a bit different to a train as well.

Laffy wrote: Quite happy to tell the strikers what I think of them mate-they are inconveniencing a huge number of people with their militancy and they would get my vote if they said ‘yes,let’s talk about how we resolve these issues’

As for guards,most modern train systems do not have guards or conductors-neither do buses whose drivers appear to manage open and closing doors without difficulty or assistance.

What is the difference between a bus or a train other than one has wheels?Thats right-bus drivers are easier to train so easier to replace so they don’t ordinarily strike.Same problem with air pilots-they strike because they know they can-likewise air traffic controllers.

Well that will probably be because the operators won't do anything unless their services are disrupted first and they are forced into reasonable talks, going on strike isn't an action that is taken easily, though I wouldn't expect one of Thatcher's disciples to agree with nor understand that.

Your main assumption seems to be that the only thing a guard in a train does is open and close the doors.

The difference between trains and buses is that buses have low relative capacity and travel at relatively slow speeds, trains can have nearly 1000 people on them and can reach speeds of 140mph.

thesilentone wrote: DCB, please read again, the key is the first three words ' You can book ' , now I realize that you are one of those who will turn this into 'The poor disabled can't travel freely. and have to pre-book help blah, blah, blah, ' as that is the type of person you are.

But like it or not these are the facts: www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinat...bled_passengers.aspx

ANY Station - ANY Train.....

You.ll notice the use of the words " they can " not " they promise to " or " they guarantee to " or even " they will " but " they can " thats if they can find the time in between destroying the country's rail network, carrying out the Tory Partys dogma and abusing the rights of their loyal workforce.

Laffy wrote: Quite happy to tell the strikers what I think of them mate-they are inconveniencing a huge number of people with their militancy and they would get my vote if they said ‘yes,let’s talk about how we resolve these issues’

As for guards,most modern train systems do not have guards or conductors-neither do buses whose drivers appear to manage open and closing doors without difficulty or assistance.

What is the difference between a bus or a train other than one has wheels?Thats right-bus drivers are easier to train so easier to replace so they don’t ordinarily strike.Same problem with air pilots-they strike because they know they can-likewise air traffic controllers.

Andrew, you're clearly not understanding what lies behind this. The RMT have an open offer on the table to talk all Northern have to do is agree that they're coming to the table to discuss the situation from a position that doesn't necessarily involve the removal of guards from their trains. The big problem is they cant do this even if they wanted to because their franchise document agreed with Mother Terressa.s Tory government says they cant unless they're willing to pay over hundreds of millions of pounds over and above what they agreed to do.

But not to worry a year from now its highly unlikely Arriva will still hold the franchise and with any luck they'll of been chased back to Germany with their tales between their legs and no new company would be stupid enough to agree to do the Torys dirty work for them, would they ?

Perhaps someone can send Laffy a copy of the Rule Book, working in Absoute Block areas.

Come on the train guard has gone full circle. Once upon a time the Guard had his own little house on the back of the train, his own little pot-belly stove, and a red and green flag, and hiis own light to wave about. No chance of him ever helping anyone do anything as he could not enter the train from his own personal carriage !!!

As for striking, everyone knows the RMT cannot, and will not negotiate, it is not in the DNA, they only know abuse, bully-boy tactics and causing major disruption, because they like it.

They will strike, because they can afford to, it is not a tough decision to take a few extra days pay at the second job, they are a bunch of arxxxxoles who are destroying peoples perception of what Unions are for and about.

So what your saying is that the role has evolved then, they may not do all of those things but instead they have other duties.

As pointed out by someone else most are represented by ASLEF rather that the RMT.

If you do some actual research you will find many instances of the RMT calling off strikes after holding talks with operators, I doubt they would have many members to find these outrageous salaries you harp on about if all they did was strike.

On salaries, again through some research, the average pay for a train guard is mid £20k, so I doubt many of them could afford to have too much time of work unpaid.

But you know, don't let facts and evidence get in the way of your notions mate.

Drivers are Aslef guards are rmt in general. I’m positive some guard must have bummed either him or his wife or maybe even both of them.

I don’t have a problem with train guards-most are good to chat to but I travel the Carlisle to Stocksfield line each week and it’s bloody inconvenient for me and others when there is no service-if it was a shop, you would shop elsewhere.

As for putting people on the dole, I would rather be gainfully employed than fulfilling a task which has no real purpose going forwards.Better to look for a job elsewhere than try and halt progress.

Technology will impact on all professions-and particularly the middle class jobs like banking,accountancy and the law-do we see them striking?No-they re train and seek alternative employment rather than become militant and still lose.That is the new order for all-there is no such thing as a job for life anymore.

As for mediation,it would help if both parties set out with no pre conditions and start with a clean sheet of paper.

The saving grace for strikers on the Northern lines is the train stock is shambolic-old coaches stuck on train wheels.If safety is the issue,the union should push for new rolling stock with the tech to facilitate driver only trains and of course better access/facilities for the disabled.

Laffy wrote: Quite happy to tell the strikers what I think of them mate-they are inconveniencing a huge number of people with their militancy and they would get my vote if they said ‘yes,let’s talk about how we resolve these issues’

As for guards,most modern train systems do not have guards or conductors-neither do buses whose drivers appear to manage open and closing doors without difficulty or assistance.

What is the difference between a bus or a train other than one has wheels?Thats right-bus drivers are easier to train so easier to replace so they don’t ordinarily strike.Same problem with air pilots-they strike because they know they can-likewise air traffic controllers.

Bit of a difference between busses and trains.
Remember in the olden days when you used to get on the bus from the rear when there was a conductor.
When they changed to driver only you got on the bus at the front next to the driver so he could see what was going on and collect the fares.
Some of the buses now have two doors, one for exit and one for entry, with the entry one next to the driver.

Now to trains. They have multiple doors with NONE of them next to the driver.
Can you imagine the amount of chaos and moaning there would be if the only way you could get on a train was by one entrance next to the driver.

Laffy wrote: I don’t have a problem with train guards-most are good to chat to but I travel the Carlisle to Stocksfield line each week and it’s bloody inconvenient for me and others when there is no service-if it was a shop, you would shop elsewhere.

As for putting people on the dole, I would rather be gainfully employed than fulfilling a task which has no real purpose going forwards.Better to look for a job elsewhere than try and halt progress.

Technology will impact on all professions-and particularly the middle class jobs like banking,accountancy and the law-do we see them striking?No-they re train and seek alternative employment rather than become militant and still lose.That is the new order for all-there is no such thing as a job for life anymore.

As for mediation,it would help if both parties set out with no pre conditions and start with a clean sheet of paper.

The saving grace for strikers on the Northern lines is the train stock is shambolic-old coaches stuck on train wheels.If safety is the issue,the union should push for new rolling stock with the tech to facilitate driver only trains and of course better access/facilities for the disabled.

From personal experience I know that retraining to get a new job is great in theory, it's very different when your in the financial position of needing a job at all times or face losing your house.

In all likelihood the "middle class" professions you have listed will have earned enough to have savings to find any gap in employment, it's not so easy if you don't have that safety blanket.

I am currently freelancing and not earning enough to pay the bills. I don't have enough savings to retrain. Starting to get a bit grim especially when I'm nearer 50 than 25.

There are clearly rights and wrongs on both sides but the train operator Northern has stated that all jobs will be protected until the end of the franchise in 2025 and the government will protect beyond.How many employers do that?

I would rather both sides actually mediated with a clean sheet of paper.

Meanwhile overcrowded trains yesterday posed a big safety risk-the reason the RMT are supposedly striking.

It’s a pity Bob Crow wasn’t around-he would have sorted this out by now