December 2019 General Election Thread

NHS would be better being given a lump sum every year and being ran by a non political board. It’s a known fact that Civil servants cannot negotiate contracts for anything. Throwing money at it isn’t the answer, l don’t think.

Could I suggest your wasting time typing tit for tat articles on the NHS, it predictable, boring and shows a lack of Political depth from all parties that want to use this agenda.

Frankly I get sick of reading and hearing about it, and it appears so do the NHS, it must be really motivating for those employed reading about how sxxite the NHS is under old uncle John Cobly an' all control, and how many gazzillions they are going to spend on it.
When a spokesman for the opposition was questioned this morning, he was asked how much they would be spending and how it would be funded, his answer was, "well we will announce that soon in our election campaign, however it will be more than the Tories" - typical....

As for Left wing Labour and the consequences of Marxist Policies. Those that weren't around in the 70's won't appreciate how dire it was.

The death of the British Car Industry due to strikes, Nationalised Industries leaking money like a waterfall, no services from dead bodies to rubbish to the fire and ambulance services. Three day working weeks, power cuts, petrol shortages, no TV after 10.30pm, out of control inflation and so on. This led to the IMF to provide the UK the largest loan in it's history.

I wonder how many of today's home owners could afford to pay 19-20% interest on there mortgages.

Labour has always been full of factions, and god help us if they ever did gain power, as it would once again tear them apart.

Lets not go back there...........

Totally agree-waiting 3 months for a new telephone, firemen on diesel trains, power cuts, IMF.It goes on

There were no firemen on diesel trains. Secondmen yes.

The ongoing Speaker election to replace Bercow is quite interesting. After the first vote, the remaining candidates are Lindsay Hoyle who is in the lead with 211 votes followed by Eleanor Laing on 113, Chris Bryant on 98, Nanny Harman on 72 and Rosie Winterton on 46. Hoyle must be favourite but he could be overtaken if another candidate starts accumulating votes. Hard one to call.

High Street wrote: There were no firemen on diesel trains. Secondmen yes.

is that the same as a door opener ?

Markovitch wrote: I don't wait 3 months. But I don't want anyone to wait 3 months irrespective of the size of their bank accounts. Why should only some people have good health care?! You work, you pay taxes, get something back, it's your money!

Aren't you in Scotland? The Government is trying to give it to you, why not accept it?! It's your right, the Tories are trying to take it away.

The average wait to see a neurologist is 8 to 12 months. Routine wait for first appointment in Belfast 246 weeks

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46343234

Marko, please recheck what you wrote in post #188. You reference the BBC in the above post yet in post #188 you wrote this.....

"Maybe if your eyes and ears are telling you everything is getting worse its time to ignore the bbc and the express and vote for change."

So , do you trust the BBC? Do you not trust the BBC? Or do you only trust them when it suits your agenda?

Just asking like eh.........................................

Marko. You used the one piece of terminology I loathe, ‘it’s your right’.
Sorry, the reason this country and the NHS are In a mess is because ’its my right’ to put my hand out demanding whatever without ever giving anything back to society.
Labour run the NHS in Wales so well that many labour politicians and their spouses are moving across the border into England for better treatment. That is a fact.

Funny how labour don’t mention the Welsh NHS in their diatribes about the wicked Tories destroying the NHS, Labour beat them to it here.
You like facts, check it out.

Mammoth, you are obviously young if you didn’t live in the 70’s and have an ideological view of the world, good for you, but listen to experience - a left wing government has never and will never work.

Graemehud wrote: Marko. You used the one piece of terminology I loathe, ‘it’s your right’.
Sorry, the reason this country and the NHS are In a mess is because ’its my right’ to put my hand out demanding whatever without ever giving anything back to society.
Labour run the NHS in Wales so well that many labour politicians and their spouses are moving across the border into England for better treatment. That is a fact.

Funny how labour don’t mention the Welsh NHS in their diatribes about the wicked Tories destroying the NHS, Labour beat them to it here.
You like facts, check it out.

Mammoth, you are obviously young if you didn’t live in the 70’s and have an ideological view of the world, good for you, but listen to experience - a left wing government has never and will never work.

Was on Radio 4 last week about a hospital in Wales paying a consultant 2k a day to help them cut costs,included letting him work from home 1 day a week,even though he lives on the Costa del Sol.

It’s not any better in Scotland either.

No apologies for pasting in the Guardian article. A load of facts to counter all the slogans and opinions. Everybody thinks they know how to run the NHS.

AlbertRoss wrote: No apologies for pasting in the Guardian article. A load of facts to counter all the slogans and opinions. Everybody thinks they know how to run the NHS.

Not arsed about an apology but a link to the article with a one paragraph snippet would have been far better for viewing quality.

What if everyone posted full articles at the same time on the same thread.


Think about it ffs it would render a thread unreadable.

All this fear mongering about the 1970's - 50-40 years ago ffs. Must have been terrible living through a time of low unemployment with good job security, rising wages, and affordable housing.

The main reason for economic instability in the 70's was the oil crisis where OPEC put up the price of oil by 400% causing inflation. Nothing to do with Labour policy (or Tory policy for that matter seeing as the Conservatives were in power for half of the decade so if you must sling this mud at Labour then it is only fair you give the Tories their fair share of the blame).

Mammoth wrote: All this fear mongering about the 1970's - 50-40 years ago ffs. Must have been terrible living through a time of low unemployment with good job security, rising wages, and affordable housing.

The main reason for economic instability in the 70's was the oil crisis where OPEC put up the price of oil by 400% causing inflation. Nothing to do with Labour policy (or Tory policy for that matter seeing as the Conservatives were in power for half of the decade so if you must sling this mud at Labour then it is only fair you give the Tories their fair share of the blame).

So it is obviously just an unlucky coincidence that every time Labour leave power they leave the country potless, it is always a global crisis that causes it.

Mammoth, it is not fear mongering, we lived through it.
I sometimes wish that Corbyn and his ilk could achieve power so that people like you could see how bad it can be. You think it is bad now under the nasty Tory cuts, just see how bad it really can be under a far left wing government.
Historically and you can check this, Labour when in power take the country close to bankruptcy and the Conservatives then have to sort it out.
Believe what you want but don’t pontificate about something that you appear to know little about.

Your name is new on here, are you a Labour marketing infiltrator, I haven’t seen you comment on CU

Graemehud wrote: Your name is new on here, are you a Labour marketing infiltrator, I haven’t seen you comment on CU

Long time lurker on here and the old footymad board, never posted before but, inspired by the real possibility of a change of direction towards a fairer society, I decided to poke my head above the parapet to correct some Tory myths. No ties to the Labour party other than being a supporter.

Why do you want to go on so much about how bad it supposedly was in the 70's (and if it was that bad then the Conservatives need to take half of the blame for it) and not open your eyes to how bad it is now? There is a need for change and Labour are the only way we will see it.

Some of the best times in my life were in the seventies when I was young and free.

The massive spiral in government debt occurred under thatcher. She was gifted north Sea oil, instead of using it wisely she squandered it. If our tory friends are bored reading about their parties failings then vote for someone who doesn't [censored] up so much

Your wee nippy was poor on BBC this morning Marko.She keeps trotting out the same crap and each time she does, it dilutes the message.

Mammoth wrote: All this fear mongering about the 1970's - 50-40 years ago ffs. Must have been terrible living through a time of low unemployment with good job security, rising wages, and affordable housing.

The main reason for economic instability in the 70's was the oil crisis where OPEC put up the price of oil by 400% causing inflation. Nothing to do with Labour policy (or Tory policy for that matter seeing as the Conservatives were in power for half of the decade so if you must sling this mud at Labour then it is only fair you give the Tories their fair share of the blame).

There is nothing wrong with having a belief in change could be better, however the reason many hark on about the 70's and how bad it was, is because they experienced it first hand.

It was also the last time a very Left Wing Labour Party was in power, and Unions exploited it to the point of oblivion of jobs and the Country. Economics saw the inflation rate at over 22%, so the good old boys in the Unions demanded pay increases above this figure. Most Companies demanded productivity in-line with these massive increases, so strikes were the order of the day. Some (believe it or not) did get increases of 35% in one year !!

This simply fuelled the fire of inflation, which the Labour Government thought was OK as those with money (the rotten tax dodging rich bxxxrds) bought things like property, land, commodities, cars, anything really, to keep for six to twelve months then sell over at a vast profit as inflation was driving up prices so fast, many made hundreds of millions on land deals in six months, not bad eh...and of course the GDP growth look fandabbydozey.

Could you imagine being a car dealer, and spending £2.0m on new stock, and it sitting in the yard making money at the rate of 22% pa, plus the profit on the sale. Grand like............

But those in the Nationalised Industries (which we had many of) wanted more and more,so went on strike more and more, the end result was the dead not being buried, the refuse and waste not being collected, the Army deployed to take over some of the emergency services (Google Green Goddess Fire Engine 1970's), power cuts etc etc and so on. The Labour PM resigned, and the next was worse, they lost the election and the Tory PM elected tried to fight the problem head on, which led to more strikes, eventually this led to first women PM, the rest is History.

So, you can understand why most don't want to see a return to the extreme politics on McDonall and McClusky, been there, got the T shirt, and why many hold Maggie in such high esteem, she stopped the rot.

The OPEC issue was due to yet another war in the middle east with Yank fingerprints all over it, had an influence, but OPEC were not shop stewards at Union Meetings in the UK.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1412933/Troops-...to-cope-in-1977.html

The NHS debate is, and always has been a smoke screen for all the political parties to hide behind come election time. This is so we don't dig into there election policies and scrutinize them in detail, I do wish we could see above this, and stop being led like lemmings.


Other than Marko, why would anyone vote for this barmpot.........

"John McDonnell, Labour's shadow chancellor, called for MI5 and the UK's armed police force to be scrapped in a controversial campaign letter.
A picture has emerged showing Mr McDonnell holding the letter earlier this year, despite claims that he had never seen or signed it.
It demands that special police squads - like those that hunt terror suspects - be disbanded, as well as the Monarchy and the House of Lords."

We need a fact check for Marko-when sunny Jim Callaghan had to go cap in hand to the IMF, it wasn’t because we had too much debt-it was because no sane person would lend them any!!Why?Because the Labour Party and unions destroyed the economy and any confidence in the market.

As socialists need constantly reminding-also the 3 custodians, when you borrow money from third parties, you normally have to pay it back

www.ft.com/content/3b583050-d277-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0

Smokescreens! Of the 120k dead and dying how many are jewish? Corbyn criticises israel and panorama runs a special on the anti semitism crisis! Utter bollocks.

Thatcher contracted the economy at the fastest rate since edward the second! We went from the 4th largest economy in the world to 7th. At one stage italy nearly caught us. Unemployment trebled.


But bins did get taken away

Well at least most of the workforce were on a forced three day week-visionary!Unfortunately you weren’t paid for the two days off when the electricity was turned off.

It was the best of times, the worst of times.

So, if you decrease a killer inflation figure from 22.5% to almost single digits, what happens to GDP. I thought you worked in finance ? (or have certainly tried to make it clear to all and sundry that you have)

The monetary value was driven by inflation (maybe you like that) but with the £ was falling like a stone, and wage increases out of control the result was inevitable. The one consistent Labour Policy - Bankruptcy !!



...........or as Maggie used to call it "Boom and Bust"

When the British Car Industry collapsed, and all those people became unemployed, then the miners, and steel workers and all the others in Nationalised Industry that bled every last sovereign out of the exchequer, what was actually achieved ? Nowt !!!


As for your 120k deaths, it all boils down to one statement:

"The rate of increase in life expectancy in England nearly halved between 2010 and 2017, according to research by epidemiology professor Michael Marmot. He commented that it was "entirely possible" that austerity was the cause and said: "If we don't spend appropriately on social care, if we don't spend appropriately on health care, the quality of life will get worse for older people and maybe the length of life, too."

Please remind us all how we got in the position to have to make cuts in the first place ?

Oh yes, "Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left,"

Oh, and just so we know where Marmot's background is:

"Sir Michael Marmot, whom the ABC chose to deliver the 2016 Boyer lectures, is the perfect man for the job. He is a socialist. But more than that, he is a socialist in a white coat, which makes him more dangerous than a garden-variety socialist. He is obsessed with inequality, and has discovered after a lifetime of observation, that the poor are sicker than the rich. Well done Sir Michael, give the man a knighthood.

Marmot you see is a doctor. Indeed, he is Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health at University College London. He is the intellectual godfather of the ‘Social Determinants of Health’ mob and is a mover and shaker at the UN. Marmot stated in a UN report, ‘Health [inequity]… is a matter of social justice and… social injustice is killing people on a grand scale’.

Unfortunately, Marmot and his Australian followers have no idea how to fix the problem other than ‘tackle the inequitable distribution of power, money, and resources’. Even if this is true, it would take a long time to achieve and many patients could die waiting"

oh, and for the benefit of Mammoth, an example of what happens when you take on policies supported by the likes of McDonall and McClusky: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_in_Liverpool

Nb

Laffy wrote: Well at least most of the workforce were on a forced three day week-visionary!Unfortunately you weren’t paid for the two days off when the electricity was turned off.

It was the best of times, the worst of times.

A tale of 2 economies.

Hammond should be tarred and feathered for his behaviour.

Has he done something outrageous.

Dentonholmersimpson wrote: So it is obviously just an unlucky coincidence that every time Labour leave power they leave the country potless, it is always a global crisis that causes it.

It's just not true, you've swallowed tory propaganda without checking the facts. Here's a quick summary of the economic conditions at the post war changes of government.

1945. Labour inherited a mess at the end of WW2.
1951. Conservatives inherited a prosperous and growing UK economy.
1964. Labour inherited an unusually large deficit on the balance of trade.
1970. Conservatives inherited an economy showing signs of improvement but out of character bad figures came out just before the election.
1974. Labour inherited a UK economy in recession with high inflation.
1979. Conservatives inherited a growing economy but there was still high inflation.
1997. Labour inherited a recovering UK economy after the longest recession in history up to that point.
2010. Conservatives inherited an economy starting to recover after the worldwide banking crisis.
2019. Labour will have to rebuild a UK economy currently undergoing the slowest recovery in history due to tory economic incompetence.

Did you copy and paste that from your Momentum Junior starter pack?

thesilentone wrote: There is nothing wrong with having a belief in change could be better, however the reason many hark on about the 70's and how bad it was, is because they experienced it first hand.

It was also the last time a very Left Wing Labour Party was in power, and Unions exploited it to the point of oblivion of jobs and the Country. Economics saw the inflation rate at over 22%, so the good old boys in the Unions demanded pay increases above this figure. Most Companies demanded productivity in-line with these massive increases, so strikes were the order of the day. Some (believe it or not) did get increases of 35% in one year !!

This simply fuelled the fire of inflation, which the Labour Government thought was OK as those with money (the rotten tax dodging rich bxxxrds) bought things like property, land, commodities, cars, anything really, to keep for six to twelve months then sell over at a vast profit as inflation was driving up prices so fast, many made hundreds of millions on land deals in six months, not bad eh...and of course the GDP growth look fandabbydozey.

Could you imagine being a car dealer, and spending £2.0m on new stock, and it sitting in the yard making money at the rate of 22% pa, plus the profit on the sale. Grand like............

But those in the Nationalised Industries (which we had many of) wanted more and more,so went on strike more and more, the end result was the dead not being buried, the refuse and waste not being collected, the Army deployed to take over some of the emergency services (Google Green Goddess Fire Engine 1970's), power cuts etc etc and so on. The Labour PM resigned, and the next was worse, they lost the election and the Tory PM elected tried to fight the problem head on, which led to more strikes, eventually this led to first women PM, the rest is History.

So, you can understand why most don't want to see a return to the extreme politics on McDonall and McClusky, been there, got the T shirt, and why many hold Maggie in such high esteem, she stopped the rot.

The OPEC issue was due to yet another war in the middle east with Yank fingerprints all over it, had an influence, but OPEC were not shop stewards at Union Meetings in the UK.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1412933/Troops-...to-cope-in-1977.html

Your post seems pretty fair minded but I would question your interpretation.

For the last few years inflation has been rising faster than my pay so, like many others, my pay is decreasing in real terms. Not only that but there is a constant threat of redundancy hanging over my head and if that was to happen there is little prospect of a quick return to similar work. Many on here are probably experiencing similar.

As individuals, some folk might find themselves in a situation where they can go to their boss, point out the situation they find themselves in along with the value they add to the company, and then bargain an above inflation pay rise, and few would see a problem with that. Most individuals won't have that bargaining power but they might as a collective so why does bargaining with an employer over pay and conditions suddenly become wrong when done as a collective? There is little prospect of that route to security for workers today though because the unions have been smashed at the expense of all working people.

Union power wasn't the cause of the economic problems in the 1970's they were a symptom. The problem was the huge inflation and if you were working in the 70's and seeing the value of your wage drop by 20% I expect you didn't see union action as greed but as essential in order to look after your family. The cause of the huge inflation started with Conservative economic policy stemming from the 1972 budget then was made worse by the OPEC crisis which started in 1973.

Maybe there is a case that the unions went too far in the 70's but I don't imagine the unions or Labour strategists have any intention of repeating the mistakes made in the past seeing as it resulted in the crushing of the unions and 18 years of opposition. We live in different times with different challenges and there are new ways of rising to those challenges. My point is that the pendulum has now swung too far leaving workers in a very vulnerable position and there is now a real need for better rights for workers which is what Labour are offering.

High Street wrote: NHS would be better being given a lump sum every year and being ran by a non political board. It’s a known fact that Civil servants cannot negotiate contracts for anything. Throwing money at it isn’t the answer, l don’t think.

Isnt crossrail playing 500 drivers to sit home while the tories arse up hs2? 25m a year. Good luck to them. If they can trebled their salaries they'll get as much as a brexit party euro mp for not going to work

Two shite projects doesn't make it better, does it? You would think a bunch of fascists would be able to make the trains run on time, can't even do that. Another trip to Oxenholme coming up next week

Given your recent rants,I suspect the sheriff of Oxenholme will be at the station to confiscate your guns.

Remind me-who was in charge of the Scottish Parliament building project which ran ten times over budget?Or the vastly overspent and delayed Edinburgh tram deal where half of Edinburgh council appears to have trousered cash?

I'm looking forward to that slimy slug Salmond's trial starting next year, no wonder Wee Nippy is desperate to have an election before it happens, there's some sordid details that are going to be immensely damaging to the SNP and she won't escape being implicated as she must have known what was going on.

If I;m not allowed to call Alan snowflake or Boris BJ can we not call the First Minister wee nippy. Kick out racism!

Edinburgh's trams were not our finest hour, though not 10x over, massive exaggeration. Massive. Buttons compared to HS2, Hinckley Point and Syrian death squads though of course. The problem is they appraise projects over a much too long a period, any project becomes profitable if you use 50 years- well except Hinckley Point

The first service left the city's Gyle shopping centre at 5am. Passengers included tram enthusiasts Marjory Broom, 59, her husband George, 63, and son Christopher, 31. "It was chock-a-block, and it was a real carnival atmosphere on board, with people cheering as the tram set off," Marjory Broom told reporters. Bringing happiness to wee Scottish faces, what price joy eh? Tram enthusiasts, salt of the earth.

Markovitch wrote: If I;m not allowed to call Alan snowflake or Boris BJ can we not call the First Minister wee nippy. Kick out racism!

She'll become "Knickerless" when Salmond goes into chokey.

How can people want to vote for these arrogant buffoons?

yoonited wrote:

Markovitch wrote: If I;m not allowed to call Alan snowflake or Boris BJ can we not call the First Minister wee nippy. Kick out racism!

She'll become "Knickerless" when Salmond goes into chokey.

Salmond hasn't been found guilty of anything. At least she'll be safe from Ross Thomson, kicked out for groping men.
Noticed the whole Boris using taxpayers money to cart his slapper around has died a death. When does the inquest start? For £130k no one can say she wasn't willing I suppose

Tory campaign off to a nice, smooth start.

Can we not ban all campaigning? My vote will be based on what the parties have done previously and what I think they will do in future. Don't need this barrage of bullshit to make a decision.

Markovitch wrote: If I;m not allowed to call Alan snowflake or Boris BJ can we not call the First Minister wee nippy. Kick out racism!

Edinburgh's trams were not our finest hour, though not 10x over, massive exaggeration. Massive. Buttons compared to HS2, Hinckley Point and Syrian death squads though of course. The problem is they appraise projects over a much too long a period, any project becomes profitable if you use 50 years- well except Hinckley Point

The first service left the city's Gyle shopping centre at 5am. Passengers included tram enthusiasts Marjory Broom, 59, her husband George, 63, and son Christopher, 31. "It was chock-a-block, and it was a real carnival atmosphere on board, with people cheering as the tram set off," Marjory Broom told reporters. Bringing happiness to wee Scottish faces, what price joy eh? Tram enthusiasts, salt of the earth.

He didn’t say Edinburgh trams were 10x over budget. Are you absolutely sure you’re a qualified accountant? I’d hate to be using you if you can’t read a couple of paragraphs correctly. He didn’t mention that the tram project was cut back from the original route, to save money, though. Or the cancellation of the Glasgow Airport Rail Link, to pay for it.
Or the unfinished Queensferry Crossing, the dangerous new Sick Kids Hospital, which was 24 hours away from opening, the killing of patients at Queen Elizabeth Hospital by pigeon droppings.

sirjimmyglass wrote:

Wes Streeting ✔ @wesstreeting

Don’t mess with @KayBurley...

06 Nov 2025 09:14

2043 Retweets 6786 favorites

• Reply
• Retweet
• Favorite

Tory campaign off to a nice, smooth start.

Wasn't booked on show but don't let the truth etc etc etc